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So what makes Stephen Hawking an expert all of a sudden

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Posts

  • DichotomyDichotomy Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
  • DodgeBlanDodgeBlan Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    well I mean dominating another civilization really just means you have some kind of advantage over them. This advantage could be a fancy horse riding skills, predator drones or gunpowder.

    And Mongols may have had some sweet horse archery but I don't think you can argue that they were more advanced than the muslim world of the time.

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  • MeldingMelding Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Dichotomy wrote: »
    oh, shit, guys, they've found Noah's Ark

    Yeah they do that every couple of years.

  • L|amaL|ama Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    when was the golden horde, 1200s or so? Yeah the muslim world was pretty awesome then.

  • TamTam I hate art I love artRegistered User regular
    edited April 2010
    DodgeBlan wrote: »
    well I mean dominating another civilization really just means you have some kind of advantage over them. This advantage could be a fancy horse riding skills, predator drones or gunpowder.

    And Mongols may have had some sweet horse archery but I don't think you can argue that they were more advanced than the muslim world of the time.

    of course not

    The Mongols didn't need to be more advanced technologically. All they had to do was what they'd always done- be awesome tacticians and lightning fast merciless killers. I mean, they also unified a lot of China, but the destruction of Baghdad by the Mongols was a key factor in the decline of the Middle East.

  • MolotovCockatooMolotovCockatoo Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    DodgeBlan wrote: »
    Has there ever in history been an example of a technologically superior society not eventually completely assimilating, annihilating, or at least outlasting a lesser one? I'm genuinely curious, I can't think of any examples really...

    EDIT: except for Atlantis, obviously. Fuckers with their magic orichalcum-powered battle-droids and shit.

    There are lots of examples of less technologically conquering the more advanced. Mongols for example.

    Who did the Mongols conquer who were more advanced of a society than they? Not trying to be obtuse, I just don;t really know a lot about the Mongol Empire other than it was huge.

    Also that is a good point about 'technologically superior' being a vague definition. I think what I'm trying to describe is like from that Banks novel Excession: an 'Outside-Context Problem'.
    The usual example given to illustrate an Outside Context Problem was imagining you were a tribe on a largish, fertile island; you'd tamed the land, invented the wheel or writing or whatever, the neighbours were cooperative or enslaved but at any rate peaceful and you were busy raising temples to yourself with all the excess productive capacity you had, you were in a position of near-absolute power and control which your hallowed ancestors could hardly have dreamed of and the whole situation was just running along nicely like a canoe on wet grass... when suddenly this bristling lump of iron appears sailless and trailing steam in the bay and these guys carrying long funny-looking sticks come ashore and announce you've just been discovered, you're all subjects of the Emperor now, he's keen on presents called tax and these bright-eyed holy men would like a word with your priests.

    So in history, when has a technologically/culturally superior society come into first contact (this is important, not just warred with but actually discovered for the first time) with another society which is demonstrably less superior in many regards, and been rebuffed successfully, leaving the 'lesser' society to thrive and the 'greater' to eventually fall first?

    What I'm getting at is, the way I see it, if humanity came into contact with a spacefaring race tomorrow, we would be subjugated in some fashion, eventually. Either militarily, culturally, or ecologically, or by some other metric, not necessarily deleterious; but we would be subsumed somehow - we would become part of their history, but they would not be a part of ours.

    Killjoy wrote: »
    No jeez Orik why do you assume the worst about people?

    Because he moderates an internet forum

    http://lexiconmegatherium.tumblr.com/
  • L|amaL|ama Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    I don't think it's definite at all, but I think it's too much of a risk to deal with. Knowing aliens are out there and observing them for at least a few decades before even trying to talk to them would be good I think.

  • TamTam I hate art I love artRegistered User regular
    edited April 2010
    why couldn't they have left the fucking library alone
    everyone always burns down the libraries and destroys the books

  • mensch-o-maticmensch-o-matic Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    shit

    they even filled the damn irrigation systems

    mongols were fucking dicks

  • TamTam I hate art I love artRegistered User regular
    edited April 2010
    DodgeBlan wrote: »
    Has there ever in history been an example of a technologically superior society not eventually completely assimilating, annihilating, or at least outlasting a lesser one? I'm genuinely curious, I can't think of any examples really...

    EDIT: except for Atlantis, obviously. Fuckers with their magic orichalcum-powered battle-droids and shit.

    There are lots of examples of less technologically conquering the more advanced. Mongols for example.

    Who did the Mongols conquer who were more advanced of a society than they? Not trying to be obtuse, I just don;t really know a lot about the Mongol Empire other than it was huge.

    China and Iraq

  • DodgeBlanDodgeBlan Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    shit

    they even filled the damn irrigation systems

    mongols were fucking dicks

    Mongols really were history's greatest dicks.

    Seriously nazis ain't got nothing on mongols.

    OooOOOoOoOOOooOOOoOOOoOoOOoOOoOOOOOOOOoooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooo
  • ZeroFillZeroFill Feeling much better. A nice, green leaf.Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    DodgeBlan wrote: »
    Has there ever in history been an example of a technologically superior society not eventually completely assimilating, annihilating, or at least outlasting a lesser one? I'm genuinely curious, I can't think of any examples really...

    EDIT: except for Atlantis, obviously. Fuckers with their magic orichalcum-powered battle-droids and shit.

    There are lots of examples of less technologically conquering the more advanced. Mongols for example.

    how about where the christian religion sent society as a whole tumbling backwards through time and set civilization back centuries from what the romans had advanced to

  • #pipe#pipe Cocky Stride, Musky odours Pope of Chili TownRegistered User regular
    edited April 2010
  • ZeroFillZeroFill Feeling much better. A nice, green leaf.Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
  • DodgeBlanDodgeBlan Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    ZeroFill wrote: »
    DodgeBlan wrote: »
    Has there ever in history been an example of a technologically superior society not eventually completely assimilating, annihilating, or at least outlasting a lesser one? I'm genuinely curious, I can't think of any examples really...

    EDIT: except for Atlantis, obviously. Fuckers with their magic orichalcum-powered battle-droids and shit.

    There are lots of examples of less technologically conquering the more advanced. Mongols for example.

    how about where the christian religion sent society as a whole tumbling backwards through time and set civilization back centuries from what the romans had advanced to

    How was it christianity that did that?

    I was under the impression that the sacking of rome was done by pagans.

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  • ZeroFillZeroFill Feeling much better. A nice, green leaf.Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    there are a lot of factors precipitating the fall of the roman empire and the dark ages

  • TamTam I hate art I love artRegistered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Christianity was among a number of factors that contributed to the decline of Classical Rome, and not the only one.

  • DodgeBlanDodgeBlan Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Uhh how did Christianity contribute? They lost their killer instinct?

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  • AneurhythmiaAneurhythmia Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    ZeroFill wrote: »
    there are a lot of factors precipitating the fall of the roman empire and the dark ages

    Actually, no, that is a commonly perpetrated urban legend. In reality, there was just that one thing.

    1LRdqui.png
  • Clint EastwoodClint Eastwood Living Proof That Sometimes Friends Are Mean.Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    This thread needs more pictures of RZA. Futore had the right idea.

    OWQbJgI.png
  • L|amaL|ama Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    ZeroFill wrote: »
    DodgeBlan wrote: »
    Has there ever in history been an example of a technologically superior society not eventually completely assimilating, annihilating, or at least outlasting a lesser one? I'm genuinely curious, I can't think of any examples really...

    EDIT: except for Atlantis, obviously. Fuckers with their magic orichalcum-powered battle-droids and shit.

    There are lots of examples of less technologically conquering the more advanced. Mongols for example.

    how about where the christian religion sent society as a whole tumbling backwards through time and set civilization back centuries from what the romans had advanced to

    I'm kind of fond of the whole 'Romans didn't actually do shit, they just stole stuff from all the supposedly barbaric civilizations they conquered and shit would have been fucked even if the empire didn't fall apart' idea

    it's based more on TV history than actual historical study though, so feel free to pick holes in it if you know better

  • mensch-o-maticmensch-o-matic Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    it was me

    i destroyed the roman empire

    sorry guys but you have to admit that the whole boy-diddling thing wasn't cool

  • L|amaL|ama Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Cloudman wrote: »
    This internet needs more pictures of RZA. Futore had the right idea.

    anyway the greeks were more into boy-diddling than the romans, weren't they?

  • Clint EastwoodClint Eastwood Living Proof That Sometimes Friends Are Mean.Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    rza20noodlespn7.jpg

    to llama yes the greeks were major diddlers

    diddling erryday

    OWQbJgI.png
  • L|amaL|ama Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    I'm pretty sure there were bigger dicks than the mongols in histroy, like I dunno the inquisition or various other catholic organisations. Least the mongol empire was a meritocracy + pretty religiously tolerant for the most part.

  • DichotomyDichotomy Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    greeks loved them some pederasty

    0BnD8l3.gif
  • DodgeBlanDodgeBlan Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    it was me

    i destroyed the roman empire

    sorry guys but you have to admit that the whole boy-diddling thing wasn't cool

    Ras-Al-Ghul? does that mean you are going to destroy the PA forums next? Have we reached the limits of depravity?

    OooOOOoOoOOOooOOOoOOOoOoOOoOOoOOOOOOOOoooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooo
  • Clint EastwoodClint Eastwood Living Proof That Sometimes Friends Are Mean.Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
  • mensch-o-maticmensch-o-matic Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    DodgeBlan wrote: »
    it was me

    i destroyed the roman empire

    sorry guys but you have to admit that the whole boy-diddling thing wasn't cool

    Ras-Al-Ghul? does that mean you are going to destroy the PA forums next? Have we reached the limits of depravity?

    man if i still ransacked a bitch for depravity we both know that this whole side of the internet would've been nuked a decade ago

    nah i haven't sacked the same since i threw out my back in '64

  • Cilla BlackCilla Black Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Assuming what an alien race may or may not do based on our own history seems a little, well...

    Granted we don't have anything else to go on, but still.

  • Blake TBlake T Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    L|ama wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure there were bigger dicks than the mongols in histroy, like I dunno the inquisition or various other catholic organisations. Least the mongol empire was a meritocracy + pretty religiously tolerant for the most part.
    The also gave china a unified written language, that's pretty useful!

  • ZeroFillZeroFill Feeling much better. A nice, green leaf.Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    ZeroFill wrote: »
    there are a lot of factors precipitating the fall of the roman empire and the dark ages

    Actually, no, that is a commonly perpetrated urban legend. In reality, there was just that one thing.

    You're right. That was basically a linchpin for everything

  • TamTam I hate art I love artRegistered User regular
    edited April 2010
    DodgeBlan wrote: »
    Uhh how did Christianity contribute? They lost their killer instinct?

    Changing the the cultural fabric of Rome while it was already getting its ass kicked by Germanic raiders and economic trouble is generally considered to have weakened it further.

  • MrMonroeMrMonroe Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    DodgeBlan wrote: »
    it was me

    i destroyed the roman empire

    sorry guys but you have to admit that the whole boy-diddling thing wasn't cool

    Ras-Al-Ghul? does that mean you are going to destroy the PA forums next? Have we reached the limits of depravity?

    man if i still ransacked a bitch for depravity we both know that this whole side of the internet would've been nuked a decade ago

    nah i haven't sacked the same since i threw out my back in '64

    back in the sixties

    the actual sixties, mind you

  • DodgeBlanDodgeBlan Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Blaket wrote: »
    L|ama wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure there were bigger dicks than the mongols in histroy, like I dunno the inquisition or various other catholic organisations. Least the mongol empire was a meritocracy + pretty religiously tolerant for the most part.
    The also gave china a unified written language, that's pretty useful!

    They also slaughtered millions of people, but I guess Kublai was useful so that makes up for it?

    OooOOOoOoOOOooOOOoOOOoOoOOoOOoOOOOOOOOoooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooo
  • FoolproofFoolproof thats what my hearts become in that place you dare not look staring back at youRegistered User regular
    edited April 2010
    I think many cultures had forgotten all about the rest of the human race before being "discovered" by explorers. It is possible that this part of our universe is already mostly human occupied. Hopefully environmental pressures have evolved our women to be much hotter then the average human worlds. Failing that hopefully we do something better than our neighbors. no one wants to be the milky way's canada.

    Most tribes had first contact with traders and religious missionaries. I think if we kill and eat the first few aliens that come to our planet then we will have some time to plan our next move before the cultural contamination and cross fertilization begins in earnest.

  • TamTam I hate art I love artRegistered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Mongols did both, guys. Unification, religious tolerance, meritocratic government, greater equality under the law are great and all, but if you destroy civilization, pillage, rape, and slaughter tens of millions of people, you're still a gigantic asshole.

  • Platypus BeirutPlatypus Beirut Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    My ancestors destroyed the Roman Empire. We crossed the Limes in 213 and got our asses kicked, but then we returned in 233.

  • Grey GhostGrey Ghost Okay... This looks bad.Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Foolproof wrote: »
    I think many cultures had forgotten all about the rest of the human race before being "discovered" by explorers. It is possible that this part of our universe is already mostly human occupied.

    What

    Are you seriously suggesting the possibility that some of our species already achieved the ability to travel to and settle other worlds and we just forgot

    zw3k8eu.gif
  • mensch-o-maticmensch-o-matic Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Foolproof wrote: »
    I think many cultures had forgotten all about the rest of the human race before being "discovered" by explorers. It is possible that this part of our universe is already mostly human occupied. Hopefully environmental pressures have evolved our women to be much hotter then the average human worlds. Failing that hopefully we do something better than our neighbors. no one wants to be the milky way's canada.

    Most tribes had first contact with traders and religious missionaries. I think if we kill and eat the first few aliens that come to our planet then we will have some time to plan our next move before the cultural contamination and cross fertilization begins in earnest.

    woah woah wait

    you

    you think any other planet has human life

    human life that we could breed with

This discussion has been closed.