Don't like the snow? You can make a bookmark with the following text instead of a url: javascript:snowStorm.toggleSnow(). Clicking it will toggle the snow on and off.
Our new Indie Games subforum is now open for business in G&T. Go and check it out, you might land a code for a free game. If you're developing an indie game and want to post about it, follow these directions. If you don't, he'll break your legs! Hahaha! Seriously though.
Our rules have been updated and given their own forum. Go and look at them! They are nice, and there may be new ones that you didn't know about! Hooray for rules! Hooray for The System! Hooray for Conforming!

[GW2]We're all waiting very, very patiently for class reveals. *twitch*

1679111264

Posts

  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    That's what I mean by quality over quantity. Stripping out the junk skills an leaving the skills that are actually decent. Then, when an expansion pack brings in a new class or two with even more skills, instead of adding loads of skills just so they can have it as a bullet point on the box, include fewer skills that are still all useful. Fewer quality skills instead of a large quantity of garbage skills. The huge quantity of junk skills may seem harmless, but believe it or not that's where the balance problem lies.

  • CorehealerCorehealer The Apothecary When has it ever been any different?Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    -Loki- wrote: »
    That's what I mean by quality over quantity. Stripping out the junk skills an leaving the skills that are actually decent. Then, when an expansion pack brings in a new class or two with even more skills, instead of adding loads of skills just so they can have it as a bullet point on the box, include fewer skills that are still all useful. Fewer quality skills instead of a large quantity of garbage skills. The huge quantity of junk skills may seem harmless, but believe it or not that's where the balance problem lies.

    Define garbage skills.

    2fbfH5V.png
  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Garbage - either not good at all (see Called Shot - just use a recurve bow) or there's simply better choices.

    You want elites? I'll go with Warrior. How about Battle Rage. You're better off bringing a decent attack elite, since adrenaline charges fast enough for it to be useless. Cleave? Eviscerate wants a word with you. Earth Shaker? Even PvP guys where snares are useful didn't find a use for it. Bulls Charge? Bring Bulls Strike and save your elite slot. Skull Crack? Reduce the ridiculous adrenaline cost and we might have something. Primal Rage? Just bring Frenzy and use the elite for something better. Shove? Bring Shock. Magehunters Smash? Devastating Blow is still better.

    This is the problem with an enormous skill pool. They need to make a lot of skills with every expansion, but the limited set of effects means that new skills will be better at doing their job than previous skills, or previous skills will be better, so the majority end up being not worth taking. Smaller skill pool means they can focus their attention on all of the skills, rather than the few that are causing problems, after which new skills make problems after a balance patch because there's so many.

    edit - I know it can be fun to mess around with junk skills to try to make a humorous build. We ran an all beast master build through Heroes Ascent a few times that tended to irritate the crap out of opposing teams because they spent the whole game with 40 second skill recharges thanks to 6x distracting shot and 6x disrupting bite. Still doesn't mean what we were running wasn't garbage, and they would be better off without that sort of thing so they can concentrate on the rest of the game.

  • CorehealerCorehealer The Apothecary When has it ever been any different?Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    The things they've said about skills indicate their desire to keep a level of customization without the possibility of making a bad character with bad skills. An emphasis on first five skills coming from a weapon, last 5 coming from a more focused profession skill pool plus racial skills. Add to this the fact that customization becomes heightened by combining skill effects during combat and no more clunky secondary skills and it looks like this issue will be solved for the most part. All the options and awesome with less balance issues and wasteful skills.

    How will this effect PvP and/or PvE, and how will these things carry over has yet to be seen, but I have faith that they are keeping this in mind. There's still a danger of people discovering OP skill combos and working out profession and weapon builds to support those combos and that becoming prevalent and nerf worthy, but you can't have choice without that possibility.

    2fbfH5V.png
  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I know, that's all I was commenting on. I wasn't trying to start an efight. My guess is PvP will be pretty well balanced, though I can see some complaining from the PvE side of things for the overly simplistic nature.

  • CorehealerCorehealer The Apothecary When has it ever been any different?Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    -Loki- wrote: »
    I know, that's all I was commenting on. I wasn't trying to start an efight. My guess is PvP will be pretty well balanced, though I can see some complaining from the PvE side of things for the overly simplistic nature.

    All good, we all want GW2 to be awesome for everyone. :)
    You make good points, i'm just commenting and speculating.

    Overly simplistic skills might not really be an issue if they implement the whole "wall of fire = flaming projectiles" type thing, added onto the "you can use a barstool as a fucking weapon" thing. The possibilities really are endless if this new combat system is done right, and once we see some beta love and gameplay videos involving said things, then we can really start dissecting this and seeing if it holds up the hype.

    2fbfH5V.png
  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Oh I know. The comboing system sounded badass. As soon as I read 'shoot a rifle through a static field to make a lightning bullet' I thought 'make a fire wall, and spam the shit out of a barrage type ranger skill through it'.

  • CorehealerCorehealer The Apothecary When has it ever been any different?Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    -Loki- wrote: »
    Oh I know. The comboing system sounded badass. As soon as I read 'shoot a rifle through a static field to make a lightning bullet' I thought 'make a fire wall, and spam the shit out of a barrage type ranger skill through it'.

    It's going to be awesome. :P

    2fbfH5V.png
  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    It makes an interesting situation for rangers, skill wise. Like, they could encourage team play by removing preparations, and make combining arrow based skills with things like firewall and static field the equivalent of preparation effects, but requiring a elementalist to get it working, thus making team synergy important.

    But since they say they're also moving towards allowing people to play solo effectively, removing preparations really hinders rangers usefulness, since using apply poison or barbed arrows with a shortbow is a great way to spread conditions through a group of enemies. I can't see firing an arrow already lit by something like Kindle Arrows becoming MORE ON FIRE! by flying through a fire wall. But then, applying kindle arrow and firing through a static field could yield multiple damage types... ah, potential.

  • LieberkuhnLieberkuhn __BANNED USERS
    edited May 2010
    -Loki- wrote: »
    It makes an interesting situation for rangers, skill wise. Like, they could encourage team play by removing preparations, and make combining arrow based skills with things like firewall and static field the equivalent of preparation effects, but requiring a elementalist to get it working, thus making team synergy important.

    But since they say they're also moving towards allowing people to play solo effectively, removing preparations really hinders rangers usefulness, since using apply poison or barbed arrows with a shortbow is a great way to spread conditions through a group of enemies. I can't see firing an arrow already lit by something like Kindle Arrows becoming MORE ON FIRE! by flying through a fire wall. But then, applying kindle arrow and firing through a static field could yield multiple damage types... ah, potential.

    I suspect the solution to adding variety to solo play is that instead of relying on skills, you'd be working with the natural environment, or using enemies' skills against them. So that giant lobs a boulder at you and it shatters when it hits the ground: awesome, attach a shard to your arrow to inflict bleeding. That necromancer just inflicted a disease on you: no problem, just spit into your quiver and inflict it right back.

    While you eat, let's have a conversation about the nature of consent.
  • sidhaethesidhaethe Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Lieberkuhn wrote: »
    I suspect the solution to adding variety to solo play is that instead of relying on skills, you'd be working with the natural environment, or using enemies' skills against them. So that giant lobs a boulder at you and it shatters when it hits the ground: awesome, attach a shard to your arrow to inflict bleeding. That necromancer just inflicted a disease on you: no problem, just spit into your quiver and inflict it right back.

    Oh god that would be so awesome.

  • CorehealerCorehealer The Apothecary When has it ever been any different?Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    sidhaethe wrote: »
    Lieberkuhn wrote: »
    I suspect the solution to adding variety to solo play is that instead of relying on skills, you'd be working with the natural environment, or using enemies' skills against them. So that giant lobs a boulder at you and it shatters when it hits the ground: awesome, attach a shard to your arrow to inflict bleeding. That necromancer just inflicted a disease on you: no problem, just spit into your quiver and inflict it right back.

    Oh god that will be so awesome.

    Fixed.

    2fbfH5V.png
  • LieberkuhnLieberkuhn __BANNED USERS
    edited May 2010
    The memes would be hilarious, at the very least.

    "lfg need spit roasters for [instance known for its disease-spreading enemies vulnerable to fire]"

    While you eat, let's have a conversation about the nature of consent.
  • CorehealerCorehealer The Apothecary When has it ever been any different?Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Lieberkuhn wrote: »
    The memes would be hilarious, at the very least.

    "lfg need spit roasters for [instance known for its disease-spreading enemies vulnerable to fire]"

    Goodbye "link GS and achievement biatch", hello "Come nuke some dudes with us, and bring your boulder"!

    2fbfH5V.png
  • AizawaAizawa Registered User
    edited May 2010
    Corehealer wrote: »
    Lieberkuhn wrote: »
    The memes would be hilarious, at the very least.

    "lfg need spit roasters for [instance known for its disease-spreading enemies vulnerable to fire]"

    Goodbye "link GS and achievement biatch", hello "Come nuke some dudes with us, and bring your boulder"!

    You wish. I wish. But that won't happen, because people suck.

    On another note, I'm going to play a golemancer! I hope it's anything like FFXI's Puppetmaster or Summoner jobs.

    Druid
    Spoiler:
    Please, excuse any socially awkward actions taken by me. I have autism.
  • CorehealerCorehealer The Apothecary When has it ever been any different?Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    ArenaNet's sure taking their time with the next reveal. Trying to keep this thread on page 1 in the meantime.

    Any speculation on what the next professions they'll reveal will be? And how they will fit into their new system of skillsets and combinable abilities?

    2fbfH5V.png
  • reVersereVerse 'Tis the season to beat Johnny Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    It'll be a brand new class to counter-balance the incredibly cliche and boring Elementalist.

  • CorehealerCorehealer The Apothecary When has it ever been any different?Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    reVerse wrote: »
    It'll be a brand new class to counter-balance the incredibly cliche and boring Elementalist.

    Why is the Elementalist boring? Cliche a bit, maybe, seeing as it's a Shaman/Mage hybrid, sort of, but how can throwing boulders and firewalls at people be boring?

    2fbfH5V.png
  • BuraisuBuraisu Innovator Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I hope it's something dark and evil like like a Blackguard/Anti-Paladin/Black Knight/Dark Knight//Death Knight. My favorite class because I like being the opposite of a Paladin. Smiting good mmmmmmm.

    I am super evil online so that I can be super good offline. ;) It's a fun balancing act. Let's just hope that the future of the internet doesn't lead to a direct connection to my brain.

    Universal Username: Naivedo
    GW2 Username: Naivedo.4617
  • reVersereVerse 'Tis the season to beat Johnny Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Corehealer wrote: »
    reVerse wrote: »
    It'll be a brand new class to counter-balance the incredibly cliche and boring Elementalist.

    Why is the Elementalist boring? Cliche a bit, maybe, seeing as it's a Shaman/Mage hybrid, sort of, but how can throwing boulders and firewalls at people be boring?

    Man, big chunks of rock are boring and I got a firewall on my computer.

  • CorehealerCorehealer The Apothecary When has it ever been any different?Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    reVerse wrote: »
    Corehealer wrote: »
    reVerse wrote: »
    It'll be a brand new class to counter-balance the incredibly cliche and boring Elementalist.

    Why is the Elementalist boring? Cliche a bit, maybe, seeing as it's a Shaman/Mage hybrid, sort of, but how can throwing boulders and firewalls at people be boring?

    Man, big chunks of rock are boring and I got a firewall on my computer.

    Just two examples of what they can do. ArenaNet needs to start releasing more info so I can cite my argument damnit!

    Watch this if you haven't already. Even if they aren't your cup of tea, they are still cool if for no other reason then because they can buff other people's abilities.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uq2zc4wUhJc

    2fbfH5V.png
  • reVersereVerse 'Tis the season to beat Johnny Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Well, see, it's same old crap fantasy games have seen a thousand time over: a lightly armored caster who calls upon the elements to deal magical damage and whatnot.

    If it was a well armored melee guy who calls upon the elements to deal magical damage and whatnot, that'd be mildly interesting. But this is just a regular, normal mage. Boring.

  • ToothyToothy Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Might be why it's the first revealed? Well, hopefully the next one isn't just an in-depth preview of the Warrior.

  • EnigEnig a.k.a. Ansatz Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    reVerse wrote: »
    Well, see, it's same old crap fantasy games have seen a thousand time over: a lightly armored caster who calls upon the elements to deal magical damage and whatnot.

    If it was a well armored melee guy who calls upon the elements to deal magical damage and whatnot, that'd be mildly interesting. But this is just a regular, normal mage. Boring.
    No it is not. Yeah it is an elemental caster, but it is hardly accurate to call it a "regular mage". The GW2 elementalist can adapt to changing tactical situations or group make-ups by switching their attunement to focus on damage, control or support. In addition, like any GW2 profession, they have opportunities for a large variety of cross-class combos.


    My guess is that the next profession will either be Warrior, which we have heard about already a little, or a brand new class which was not in GW1.

    iyjXwV5uPHHfO.jpg
    Steam (Ansatz) || Planetside 2 - Vanu (Ansatz) || GW2 officer (Ansatz.6498)
  • TransporterTransporter Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    reVerse wrote: »
    Well, see, it's same old crap fantasy games have seen a thousand time over: a lightly armored caster who calls upon the elements to deal magical damage and whatnot.

    If it was a well armored melee guy who calls upon the elements to deal magical damage and whatnot, that'd be mildly interesting. But this is just a regular, normal mage. Boring.

    These are the same people that came up with a scythe weilding psychopath that communes with the gods, a Spear weilder that shouts in order to gain morale/energy, a Blind spiritulist that communes with dead spirits in order to smite or heal.

    And a ROBOT.

    They'll be fine.

  • EnigEnig a.k.a. Ansatz Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Ok, new info today!

    Article on the Dynamic Event system:
    http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/dynamic-events/dynamic-events-overview/

    Plus some new screens:
    Spoiler:

    iyjXwV5uPHHfO.jpg
    Steam (Ansatz) || Planetside 2 - Vanu (Ansatz) || GW2 officer (Ansatz.6498)
  • DissociaterDissociater Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I always thought GW1 was a fairly pretty game, but those screenshots really put it to shame.

    Also, that thing about the dynamic event system has raised my hopes ridiculously high.

    To sum it up for those who don't go to the website: They want to do away with (or at least lessen the role of) the traditional quest system that has the player talk to a quest giver, read a block of text, and get a quest objective. They use the example of 'instead of someone telling you that a dragon is attacking, you'll actually see a dragon coming down on you blowing up buildings.'

    Another example they have is how quests lie to the players, when they say 'badguys are attacking.' so you have to kill 10 badguys, who are usually just standing around in the spawn area of that mob type. In GW2, if a farmer tells you ogres are attacking, they will come and smash down his house if you don't stop them.

    steam_sig.png
  • sidhaethesidhaethe Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Oh, my. How exciting!

  • EnigEnig a.k.a. Ansatz Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I particularly liked this:
    In Guild Wars 2, our event system won't make you read a huge quest description to find out what's going on. You'll experience it by seeing and hearing things in the world. If a dragon is attacking, you won't read three paragraphs telling you about it, you'll see buildings exploding in giant balls of fire, and hear characters in the game world screaming about a dragon attack. You'll hear guards from nearby cities trying to recruit players to go help fight the dragon, and see huge clouds of smoke in the distance, rising from the village under siege.

    A lot of MMO players put down GW for being instanced and lacking the "player interaction" you get in a traditional MMO. And here GW2 is going to make the "player interaction" in a typical MMO look pathetic with a persistent world filled with elaborate events and full support for ad-hoc grouping.

    iyjXwV5uPHHfO.jpg
    Steam (Ansatz) || Planetside 2 - Vanu (Ansatz) || GW2 officer (Ansatz.6498)
  • DissociaterDissociater Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    As an added bonus, we've also hidden hundreds of events all over the world that require interaction with the game world. This helps give an extra sense of reward and discovery for those who seek to explore the entire world. Finding an entrance to a secret cave deep at the bottom of the ocean and removing a glowing orb from the cave could let an evil creature loose from its ancient prison and kick off a chain of events as the creature terrorizes the ocean shipping lanes. Reading the spells written on an ancient wizard's spell book in a ruined castle at the top of the highest mountain peak could open a portal to another world and trigger a chain of events as creatures from that world come through the portal.

    This right here made me jizz in my pants.

    I'd describe myself as an explorer in MMOs, but there's really no incentive to do so. I can't count the number of times I've managed to explore what looks like a hidden back pack, through a forest, up a mountain into a really cool looking area and found a cool creature or thing there only to be struck with the realization that 'I don't have the quest for this area yet.' It takes some of the mystery out of the game.

    With this, if I explore my way to that hidden area and interact with whever I find there, it could start off a chain of events that effects the whole area. Or at least, it will be a unique experience for having found the place.

    steam_sig.png
  • WrenWren Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    WAR had the exact same thing. except it was WAR.

    tf2sig.jpg
    TF2 - Wren BF3: Wren-fu
  • ZzuluZzulu Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Yeah. I mean it sounds good but WAR already did that with their public quests. You just ventured into an area and something was going down (Beastmen setting fire to houses or whatev) and then you could choose to participate.

    The PQ's in WAR didn't have any kind of effect in the world if you failed them or initiated them though, they were very isolated and ultimately felt kind of pointless.

    Here's hoping GW2 does a 'Blizzard' and takes WAR's concept and refines it into perfection.

    t5qfc9.jpg
  • DissociaterDissociater Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    WAR's lousy gameplay kept me from experiencing any of that. Although, there were a number of times I'd find hidden tombs, or places that I had no quests to, and upon exploring the tomb or cave or whatever and reaching the bottom, there was nothing there except a boss mob, probably quest related.
    e. To amend, when I say experience 'any of that' I'm talking about their supposed plungers of the world, and that stuff, not the PQs.

    The problem with PQs was if no one was there, you couldn't finish them. So if you fell behind the initial wave of the greatest number of players, so much of the content was effectively locked out to you. From the sounds of it, GW2's will scale to the number of people there.

    steam_sig.png
  • sidhaethesidhaethe Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Not only that, but it's explicitly said (whether this will truly work or not remains to be seen of course) that there will be "failure" conditions which will unlock whatever consequences you might imagine from failing to stop an event from occurring, and that these would not reset. If you failed WAR's PQs, you just had to wait for the timer to run out and could farm Phase 1 ad infinitum.

  • RoyceSraphimRoyceSraphim Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I honestly hope they have someone sit in front of a white board each week and plan the campaigns of their respective army as they march into player territories.

    That is why I shied away from WoW and was tantalized by Aion, the real world isn't binary black and white and it feels weird to play a game with only two active factions. The thought of a third one coming in and helping the black crush white and then turn on black makes me smile.

    Actually, thats what everyone does in Mount and Blade, we help the bandits win (while "accidentally" shooting them in the back of the head), then we turn on them and recruit their prisoners to our cause.

  • ZzuluZzulu Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    hopefully dynamic content is the next big thing for MMO's

    with both Heroes of Telara and GW2 focusing so much on dynamic events and all. I think it's a good direction to be going in

    t5qfc9.jpg
  • KrunkMcGrunkKrunkMcGrunk Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    My only question about this whole system is, what happens when there aren't any players around? Do the enemy NPCs automatically take over an entire zone? Is the Dynamic Quest put on hold until a certain amount of players are in the area?

    mrsatansig.png
  • KrunkMcGrunkKrunkMcGrunk Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    That personal storyline thing sounds fucking awesome. That is the kind of shit that is sorely lacking from other MMORPGs.

    God damn. Three weeks ago, I didn't give a shit about this game, but now it sounds genuinely awesome.

    mrsatansig.png
  • ShawnaseeShawnasee Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Damnit! My wife may divorce me in 2011! This game, which looks amazing plus a host of other games coming out then....

    /head explodes

    Chanus wrote: »

    Your wang is a better man than you.
This discussion has been closed.