the decisions, dialog and writing are enough to overlook the mediocre/poor everything else
and to be fair nickle, the game sorta implies to focus on three things. it didn't outrightly state it though and you have a right to be upset. i looked at your stat set and you might have some trouble.
So, this is on sale at Fry's till the end of today for $40 (PC). Am I going to regret picking this up at that price?
Is it, as some descriptions would lead you to believe, poop from a butt?
Is it a flawed masterpiece?
Is it salvageable? (ini tweaks, hacks, future patches & mods, etc?)
Are the decisions, dialog and writing enough to overlook the mediocre/poor everything else?
Every single aspect is worse than in other games. The dialog and writing are bog standard, certainly not enough to excuse the other problems with the game. If I had to grade it it would be in C-D range. It's certainly not a masterpiece, flawed or otherwise. I'm inclined to say it's the worst of Obsidian's games, and that's saying a lot. It's not the worst game ever, though, that honor belongs to Fort Zombie.
PolloDiablo on
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TrippyJingMoses supposes his toeses are roses.But Moses supposes erroneously.Registered Userregular
edited June 2010
I think the game fails to account for embassy guards being killed by said opposing faction.
I would also say that thus far this game has the best plot reactivity I've seen yet, but again, I haven't played Way of the Samurai.
So, this is on sale at Fry's till the end of today for $40 (PC). Am I going to regret picking this up at that price?
Is it, as some descriptions would lead you to believe, poop from a butt?
Is it a flawed masterpiece?
Is it salvageable? (ini tweaks, hacks, future patches & mods, etc?)
Are the decisions, dialog and writing enough to overlook the mediocre/poor everything else?
Every single aspect is worse than in other games. The dialog and writing are bog standard, certainly not enough to excuse the other problems with the game. If I had to grade it it would be in C-D range. It's certainly not a masterpiece, flawed or otherwise. I'm inclined to say it's the worst of Obsidian's games, and that's saying a lot. It's not the worst game ever, though, that honor belongs to Fort Zombie.
Ignore him, its a flawed masterpiece and the dialogue certainly isn't bog standard. Bog standard is a Gears of War or GTA plot, something not designed to do anything but be there.
And the embassy mission I don't recall my summary but I don't recall it being bad, its possibly you did kill someone, did you shoot people with the pistol and not use tranq ammo? Also depends how you got in, I bluffed my way as an inspector. Albatross was mucho impressed.
Once you 'get it', and try to play how they wanted you rather than going online to complain about not being a crackshot space marine with unbreakable recharging health, the action gameplay is actually really good. Certainly more satisfying than ME1.
And while it's not as philosophically as deep as Kotor2, or even Deus Ex, the writing is still very good. Certainly better than anything Bioware has put out since BG2. And the voice acting is very good, the main character is much better than Mark Meer, though not quite as good as Jenifer Hale. And Nolan North's character is really very good in this game
Honestly my biggest complaint is that the controller vibrates when you're low on health, but that shit doesn't recharge. I would punch whoever put that in, it's annoying as hell.
Honestly my biggest complaint is that the controller vibrates when you're low on health, but that shit doesn't recharge. I would punch whoever put that in, it's annoying as hell.
If your armor is high enough the shaking goes away when you recharge the shields.
I haven't found over specialization to be really that necessary. My first run I kept MA, Stealth and Pistols within a level or two of each other, and also leveled Sabotage and I did just fine. This run, I got to 5 in Stealth, AR, Shotgun, Toughness and Martial Arts at roughly the same time and I didn't feel like I was hurting for it.
Next run will be the real acid test, though. I'm going to try leveling SMG, Pistol, Sabotage, Stealth, Technical Aptitude and Martial Arts. We'll see how much I'm suffering then, I guess.
Once you 'get it', and try to play how they wanted you rather than going online to complain about not being a crackshot space marine with unbreakable recharging health, the action gameplay is actually really good. Certainly more satisfying than ME1.
And while it's not as philosophically as deep as Kotor2, or even Deus Ex, the writing is still very good. Certainly better than anything Bioware has put out since BG2. And the voice acting is very good, the main character is much better than Mark Meer, though not quite as good as Jenifer Hale. And Nolan North's character is really very good in this game
Oh, I "get it". You suck, you use points, you get better.
That doesn't excuse someone having 3 points in pistols and still not being able to hit a person standing 10 feet away. No one born with thumbs or the ability to see could ever be as bad at shooting as the main character of this game at the start.
That's just bad design.
I can see how the game would be fun when you get stats to much higher levels, but that doesn't change the fact that you can't really do anything effectively until then. Right now, I can't even get past the first real boss fight, because I had the audacity to spread my points into 6 (!) different attributes, instead of one or two.
Once you 'get it', and try to play how they wanted you rather than going online to complain about not being a crackshot space marine with unbreakable recharging health, the action gameplay is actually really good. Certainly more satisfying than ME1.
And while it's not as philosophically as deep as Kotor2, or even Deus Ex, the writing is still very good. Certainly better than anything Bioware has put out since BG2. And the voice acting is very good, the main character is much better than Mark Meer, though not quite as good as Jenifer Hale. And Nolan North's character is really very good in this game
Oh, I "get it". You suck, you use points, you get better.
That doesn't excuse someone having 3 points in pistols and still not being able to hit a person standing 10 feet away.
That's just bad design. I can see how the game would be fun when you get stats to much higher levels, but that doesn't change the fact that you can't really do anything effectively until then.
Sorry but you can hit things, you can't 'run and gun' but theres nothing that stops you aiming and headshotting anyone at any level.
And while it's not as philosophically as deep as Kotor2, or even Deus Ex, the writing is still very good. Certainly better than anything Bioware has put out since BG2. And the voice acting is very good, the main character is much better than Mark Meer, though not quite as good as Jenifer Hale. And Nolan North's character is really very good in this game
I personally would hate it if a game that is a hommage to the spy gerne turned into some deep philosphical stoner rpg. (I loved Kotor2 and Deus Ex)
It does conspiracy and characters already better than any other similiar spy game and a big chunk of the garbage in bookstores that currently seems to be written.
Also Dialog is incredible and does a large part in giving the characters depth.
Once you 'get it', and try to play how they wanted you rather than going online to complain about not being a crackshot space marine with unbreakable recharging health, the action gameplay is actually really good. Certainly more satisfying than ME1.
And while it's not as philosophically as deep as Kotor2, or even Deus Ex, the writing is still very good. Certainly better than anything Bioware has put out since BG2. And the voice acting is very good, the main character is much better than Mark Meer, though not quite as good as Jenifer Hale. And Nolan North's character is really very good in this game
Oh, I "get it". You suck, you use points, you get better.
That doesn't excuse someone having 3 points in pistols and still not being able to hit a person standing 10 feet away.
That's just bad design. I can see how the game would be fun when you get stats to much higher levels, but that doesn't change the fact that you can't really do anything effectively until then.
Sorry but you can hit things, you can't 'run and gun' but theres nothing that stops you aiming and headshotting anyone at any level.
Are you playing a different game?
Without standing completely still and pointing at a stationary target for 2.5 seconds (at level 3!), you have no idea where those bullets are going.
I've never complained that you aren't an unstoppable space marine, only that maybe they could have added skill as you went along, instead of starting you out as a guy who can't do anything at all.
GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
edited June 2010
I think I am going to wait on this one. Been following the thread, and I just don't have a warm fuzzy. I'll probably wait until it has a Steam weekend deal.
Once you 'get it', and try to play how they wanted you rather than going online to complain about not being a crackshot space marine with unbreakable recharging health, the action gameplay is actually really good. Certainly more satisfying than ME1.
And while it's not as philosophically as deep as Kotor2, or even Deus Ex, the writing is still very good. Certainly better than anything Bioware has put out since BG2. And the voice acting is very good, the main character is much better than Mark Meer, though not quite as good as Jenifer Hale. And Nolan North's character is really very good in this game
Oh, I "get it". You suck, you use points, you get better.
That doesn't excuse someone having 3 points in pistols and still not being able to hit a person standing 10 feet away.
That's just bad design. I can see how the game would be fun when you get stats to much higher levels, but that doesn't change the fact that you can't really do anything effectively until then.
Sorry but you can hit things, you can't 'run and gun' but theres nothing that stops you aiming and headshotting anyone at any level.
Are you playing a different game?
Without standing completely still and pointing at a stationary target for 2.5 seconds (at level 3!), you have no idea where those bullets are going.
Having spent many an afternoon at my uncle's firing range, I can tell you that this is exactly how guns work.
Once you 'get it', and try to play how they wanted you rather than going online to complain about not being a crackshot space marine with unbreakable recharging health, the action gameplay is actually really good. Certainly more satisfying than ME1.
And while it's not as philosophically as deep as Kotor2, or even Deus Ex, the writing is still very good. Certainly better than anything Bioware has put out since BG2. And the voice acting is very good, the main character is much better than Mark Meer, though not quite as good as Jenifer Hale. And Nolan North's character is really very good in this game
Oh, I "get it". You suck, you use points, you get better.
That doesn't excuse someone having 3 points in pistols and still not being able to hit a person standing 10 feet away.
That's just bad design. I can see how the game would be fun when you get stats to much higher levels, but that doesn't change the fact that you can't really do anything effectively until then.
Sorry but you can hit things, you can't 'run and gun' but theres nothing that stops you aiming and headshotting anyone at any level.
Are you playing a different game?
Without standing completely still and pointing at a stationary target for 2.5 seconds (at level 3!), you have no idea where those bullets are going.
It takes a little practice, but you can get better at shooting (as a player) to the point where it's not a complete crapshoot at low level. But the pistol is the absolute worst weapon to run and gun with. It's for crits, tranqs and Chain Shot, and that's all.
I haven't spent a whole lot of time with SMGs yet, but the ARs with decent accuracy will usually take down an enemy at medium range in a burst or two without waiting for the crit. The shotgun is hell on wheels at close range, crit or not. By far the fastest way to clear a hallway is shotgun crit (roomsweeper if you have it) + stomp stomp stomp.
Once you 'get it', and try to play how they wanted you rather than going online to complain about not being a crackshot space marine with unbreakable recharging health, the action gameplay is actually really good. Certainly more satisfying than ME1.
And while it's not as philosophically as deep as Kotor2, or even Deus Ex, the writing is still very good. Certainly better than anything Bioware has put out since BG2. And the voice acting is very good, the main character is much better than Mark Meer, though not quite as good as Jenifer Hale. And Nolan North's character is really very good in this game
Oh, I "get it". You suck, you use points, you get better.
That doesn't excuse someone having 3 points in pistols and still not being able to hit a person standing 10 feet away.
That's just bad design. I can see how the game would be fun when you get stats to much higher levels, but that doesn't change the fact that you can't really do anything effectively until then.
Sorry but you can hit things, you can't 'run and gun' but theres nothing that stops you aiming and headshotting anyone at any level.
Are you playing a different game?
Without standing completely still and pointing at a stationary target for 2.5 seconds (at level 3!), you have no idea where those bullets are going.
It takes a little practice, but you can get better at shooting (as a player) to the point where it's not a complete crapshoot at low level. But the pistol is the absolute worst weapon to run and gun with. It's for crits, tranqs and Chain Shot, and that's all.
I haven't spent a whole lot of time with SMGs yet, but the ARs with decent accuracy will usually take down an enemy at medium range in a burst or two without waiting for the crit. The shotgun is hell on wheels at close range, crit or not. By far the fastest way to clear a hallway is shotgun crit (roomsweeper if you have it) + stomp stomp stomp.
The AR's seem to work decently well, though I can't use them to beat this boss anyway, since he just bum rushes me if I ADS.
Really, I'm just a bit miffed that there's no physical way I can beat this boss, aside from exploiting AI glitches, because none of my individual skills are leveled up enough to significantly damage him.
Once you 'get it', and try to play how they wanted you rather than going online to complain about not being a crackshot space marine with unbreakable recharging health, the action gameplay is actually really good. Certainly more satisfying than ME1.
And while it's not as philosophically as deep as Kotor2, or even Deus Ex, the writing is still very good. Certainly better than anything Bioware has put out since BG2. And the voice acting is very good, the main character is much better than Mark Meer, though not quite as good as Jenifer Hale. And Nolan North's character is really very good in this game
Oh, I "get it". You suck, you use points, you get better.
That doesn't excuse someone having 3 points in pistols and still not being able to hit a person standing 10 feet away.
That's just bad design. I can see how the game would be fun when you get stats to much higher levels, but that doesn't change the fact that you can't really do anything effectively until then.
Sorry but you can hit things, you can't 'run and gun' but theres nothing that stops you aiming and headshotting anyone at any level.
Are you playing a different game?
Without standing completely still and pointing at a stationary target for 2.5 seconds (at level 3!), you have no idea where those bullets are going.
Having spent many an afternoon at my uncle's firing range, I can tell you that this is exactly how guns work.
Man, the real spies of the world should know that you can't hit moving targets, or ever shoot a man sized object at 10 feet without aiming at it for 3 seconds.
Boss fights are pretty poor. Honestly I'd just pour points into chain shot, it works on everything, even beyond-crit-range sniping (inexplicably). I haven't seen him dodge any, but I've been doing it when he starts running down the hall towards you. Make sure to wait for the crit. I didn't even know he had goons or mines because he dies so quickly this way.
Are the decisions, dialog and writing enough to overlook the mediocre/poor everything else?
Modding: it has .ini files with variables like ME does, but they're a huge jumble (in Notepad++, the weapon .ini file is 10 lines and 25,000 columns), but someone will probably sort through them eventually and that ought to make weapon accuracy suck less.
Game: the gameplay is mediocre and the skills are massively imbalanced, and I found the dialogue, voice acting, characters (with few exceptions), and plot to be fairly uninteresting (though there are some good lines). It seems much harder to make a story with meaning in a (semi)realistic, modern setting as opposed to one with loftier forces at play, and AP is obviously more a spy story than a human story. KOTOR2, BG, Planescape, Vampire, etc. it isn't.
The real draw here is the reactivity, as demonstrated by people in this thread hearing someone else mention the final boss and going "wait, what? that wasn't my boss at all!" I don't think there's a game out that has offered as many altered beasts to play with, so it's interesting in terms of game design. Whether that's worth $40 is up to you.
Once you 'get it', and try to play how they wanted you rather than going online to complain about not being a crackshot space marine with unbreakable recharging health, the action gameplay is actually really good. Certainly more satisfying than ME1.
ME1's combat wasn't good, but AP's is worse. In ME1, skills actually improved your weapon handling, while meager gunplay was bolstered by a full bank of powers to use, and only at the beginning of the game did they take a minute to recharge. In AP, unless you spread yourself thin, you'll only have a few powers, and they take awhile to charge throughout the game.
Once you 'get it', and try to play how they wanted you rather than going online to complain about not being a crackshot space marine with unbreakable recharging health, the action gameplay is actually really good. Certainly more satisfying than ME1.
And while it's not as philosophically as deep as Kotor2, or even Deus Ex, the writing is still very good. Certainly better than anything Bioware has put out since BG2. And the voice acting is very good, the main character is much better than Mark Meer, though not quite as good as Jenifer Hale. And Nolan North's character is really very good in this game
Oh, I "get it". You suck, you use points, you get better.
That doesn't excuse someone having 3 points in pistols and still not being able to hit a person standing 10 feet away.
That's just bad design. I can see how the game would be fun when you get stats to much higher levels, but that doesn't change the fact that you can't really do anything effectively until then.
Sorry but you can hit things, you can't 'run and gun' but theres nothing that stops you aiming and headshotting anyone at any level.
Are you playing a different game?
Without standing completely still and pointing at a stationary target for 2.5 seconds (at level 3!), you have no idea where those bullets are going.
It takes a little practice, but you can get better at shooting (as a player) to the point where it's not a complete crapshoot at low level. But the pistol is the absolute worst weapon to run and gun with. It's for crits, tranqs and Chain Shot, and that's all.
I haven't spent a whole lot of time with SMGs yet, but the ARs with decent accuracy will usually take down an enemy at medium range in a burst or two without waiting for the crit. The shotgun is hell on wheels at close range, crit or not. By far the fastest way to clear a hallway is shotgun crit (roomsweeper if you have it) + stomp stomp stomp.
The AR's seem to work decently well, though I can't use them to beat this boss anyway, since he just bum rushes me if I ADS.
Really, I'm just a bit miffed that there's no physical way I can beat this boss, aside from exploiting AI glitches, because none of my individual skills are leveled up enough to significantly damage him.
That's really, really stupid.
This is Omen Dang, right?
I went to Taipei first, and I fought him with Pistols 4, Martial Arts 5 or something like that. He was rough, but definitely not unkillable.
Stealth out, chain tranq his head, get up next to him and mash B. When he runs, chase him.
The real trouble I had with that fight was camera related.
"Thorton chose to attack the embassy outright, opening fire on Marines and guards stationed there in order to get inside."
No I didn't! I sneaked inside! I went in via the roof access and used a non-lethal takedown on the one guard up there!
"During the firefight, Thorton dealt with members of the opposing faction but ended up killing embassy guards."
NO I DIDN'T! WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO ME, GAME?
After the first 2 missions, I have yet to fire a single shot that wasn't a tranquilizer round.
I'm not killing anyone, though, and that's what's pissing me off. I don't want the game and then characters telling me I'm a psychopath when I've been stealthy and non-lethal! I'm trying this again, in any case.
I just got to Surkov and he still says,
"If your plan was to sneak in here, judging by the gunfire and the people you've killed, I think you've failed."
He thinks I'm a terrorist due to my armor, though, so perhaps that's why he said that and not an actual comment on my performance. This is my third time going through here so hopefully the game won't tell me I murdered marines and blasted my way through the entrance. The last two I went in via the roof access and knocked out the guard up there, but this time I talked up the guard at the front and walked right through.
Dashui on
Xbox Live, PSN & Origin: Vacorsis 3DS: 2638-0037-166
Once you 'get it', and try to play how they wanted you rather than going online to complain about not being a crackshot space marine with unbreakable recharging health, the action gameplay is actually really good. Certainly more satisfying than ME1.
And while it's not as philosophically as deep as Kotor2, or even Deus Ex, the writing is still very good. Certainly better than anything Bioware has put out since BG2. And the voice acting is very good, the main character is much better than Mark Meer, though not quite as good as Jenifer Hale. And Nolan North's character is really very good in this game
Oh, I "get it". You suck, you use points, you get better.
That doesn't excuse someone having 3 points in pistols and still not being able to hit a person standing 10 feet away.
That's just bad design. I can see how the game would be fun when you get stats to much higher levels, but that doesn't change the fact that you can't really do anything effectively until then.
Sorry but you can hit things, you can't 'run and gun' but theres nothing that stops you aiming and headshotting anyone at any level.
Are you playing a different game?
Without standing completely still and pointing at a stationary target for 2.5 seconds (at level 3!), you have no idea where those bullets are going.
It takes a little practice, but you can get better at shooting (as a player) to the point where it's not a complete crapshoot at low level. But the pistol is the absolute worst weapon to run and gun with. It's for crits, tranqs and Chain Shot, and that's all.
I haven't spent a whole lot of time with SMGs yet, but the ARs with decent accuracy will usually take down an enemy at medium range in a burst or two without waiting for the crit. The shotgun is hell on wheels at close range, crit or not. By far the fastest way to clear a hallway is shotgun crit (roomsweeper if you have it) + stomp stomp stomp.
The AR's seem to work decently well, though I can't use them to beat this boss anyway, since he just bum rushes me if I ADS.
Really, I'm just a bit miffed that there's no physical way I can beat this boss, aside from exploiting AI glitches, because none of my individual skills are leveled up enough to significantly damage him.
That's really, really stupid.
This is Omen Dang, right?
I went to Taipei first, and I fought him with Pistols 4, Martial Arts 5 or something like that. He was rough, but definitely not unkillable.
Stealth out, chain tranq his head, get up next to him and mash B. When he runs, chase him.
The real trouble I had with that fight was camera related.
Aside from the camera, nothing applies here, I guess.
I go invisible, but he just spots me anyway.
I chain shoot him but it doesn't do any damage.
I try to melee him, and he just blocks and counters taking 1/4th of my life.
I try gadgets, he dodges them, or they just don't hit.
If I can get him down to low health by cheesing out the AI, he runs away constantly while his goons riddle me with bullets. If I confront them, Deng comes up from behind and takes me for another 1/4th of my life. Assuming I don't just get stuck in place and shot from two sides while he repeatedly punches me, and I struggle to get the game to understand that I want to punch him back, and not punch the air 5 feet in front of the grunt.
Meanwhile I'm just trying to chase him down and dodging his mines, just trying to punch him for that last sliver of health, because trying to shoot him while he's running around is a fool's errand.
Once you 'get it', and try to play how they wanted you rather than going online to complain about not being a crackshot space marine with unbreakable recharging health, the action gameplay is actually really good. Certainly more satisfying than ME1.
And while it's not as philosophically as deep as Kotor2, or even Deus Ex, the writing is still very good. Certainly better than anything Bioware has put out since BG2. And the voice acting is very good, the main character is much better than Mark Meer, though not quite as good as Jenifer Hale. And Nolan North's character is really very good in this game
Oh, I "get it". You suck, you use points, you get better.
That doesn't excuse someone having 3 points in pistols and still not being able to hit a person standing 10 feet away.
That's just bad design. I can see how the game would be fun when you get stats to much higher levels, but that doesn't change the fact that you can't really do anything effectively until then.
Sorry but you can hit things, you can't 'run and gun' but theres nothing that stops you aiming and headshotting anyone at any level.
Are you playing a different game?
Without standing completely still and pointing at a stationary target for 2.5 seconds (at level 3!), you have no idea where those bullets are going.
It takes a little practice, but you can get better at shooting (as a player) to the point where it's not a complete crapshoot at low level. But the pistol is the absolute worst weapon to run and gun with. It's for crits, tranqs and Chain Shot, and that's all.
I haven't spent a whole lot of time with SMGs yet, but the ARs with decent accuracy will usually take down an enemy at medium range in a burst or two without waiting for the crit. The shotgun is hell on wheels at close range, crit or not. By far the fastest way to clear a hallway is shotgun crit (roomsweeper if you have it) + stomp stomp stomp.
The AR's seem to work decently well, though I can't use them to beat this boss anyway, since he just bum rushes me if I ADS.
Really, I'm just a bit miffed that there's no physical way I can beat this boss, aside from exploiting AI glitches, because none of my individual skills are leveled up enough to significantly damage him.
That's really, really stupid.
This is Omen Dang, right?
I went to Taipei first, and I fought him with Pistols 4, Martial Arts 5 or something like that. He was rough, but definitely not unkillable.
Stealth out, chain tranq his head, get up next to him and mash B. When he runs, chase him.
The real trouble I had with that fight was camera related.
Aside from the camera, nothing applies here, I guess.
I go invisible, but he just spots me anyway.
I chain shoot him but it doesn't do any damage.
I try to melee him, and he just blocks and counters taking 1/4th of my life.
I try gadgets, he dodges them, or they just don't hit.
If I can get him down to low health by cheesing out the AI, he runs away constantly while his goons riddle me with bullets. If I confront them, Deng comes up from behind and takes me for another 1/4th of my life. Assuming I don't just get stuck in place and shot from two sides while he repeatedly punches me.
Are you sure you're supposed to be fighting Deng yet?
There is a bit of a "chase" before you get him one on one. I think he might be unkillable before you get to the prescribed spot.
I ask because when I finally took him down it was just he and I, but I'd taken out like a dozen of his goons getting there.
Once you 'get it', and try to play how they wanted you rather than going online to complain about not being a crackshot space marine with unbreakable recharging health, the action gameplay is actually really good. Certainly more satisfying than ME1.
And while it's not as philosophically as deep as Kotor2, or even Deus Ex, the writing is still very good. Certainly better than anything Bioware has put out since BG2. And the voice acting is very good, the main character is much better than Mark Meer, though not quite as good as Jenifer Hale. And Nolan North's character is really very good in this game
Oh, I "get it". You suck, you use points, you get better.
That doesn't excuse someone having 3 points in pistols and still not being able to hit a person standing 10 feet away.
That's just bad design. I can see how the game would be fun when you get stats to much higher levels, but that doesn't change the fact that you can't really do anything effectively until then.
Sorry but you can hit things, you can't 'run and gun' but theres nothing that stops you aiming and headshotting anyone at any level.
Are you playing a different game?
Without standing completely still and pointing at a stationary target for 2.5 seconds (at level 3!), you have no idea where those bullets are going.
It takes a little practice, but you can get better at shooting (as a player) to the point where it's not a complete crapshoot at low level. But the pistol is the absolute worst weapon to run and gun with. It's for crits, tranqs and Chain Shot, and that's all.
I haven't spent a whole lot of time with SMGs yet, but the ARs with decent accuracy will usually take down an enemy at medium range in a burst or two without waiting for the crit. The shotgun is hell on wheels at close range, crit or not. By far the fastest way to clear a hallway is shotgun crit (roomsweeper if you have it) + stomp stomp stomp.
The AR's seem to work decently well, though I can't use them to beat this boss anyway, since he just bum rushes me if I ADS.
Really, I'm just a bit miffed that there's no physical way I can beat this boss, aside from exploiting AI glitches, because none of my individual skills are leveled up enough to significantly damage him.
That's really, really stupid.
This is Omen Dang, right?
I went to Taipei first, and I fought him with Pistols 4, Martial Arts 5 or something like that. He was rough, but definitely not unkillable.
Stealth out, chain tranq his head, get up next to him and mash B. When he runs, chase him.
The real trouble I had with that fight was camera related.
Aside from the camera, nothing applies here, I guess.
I go invisible, but he just spots me anyway.
I chain shoot him but it doesn't do any damage.
I try to melee him, and he just blocks and counters taking 1/4th of my life.
I try gadgets, he dodges them, or they just don't hit.
If I can get him down to low health by cheesing out the AI, he runs away constantly while his goons riddle me with bullets. If I confront them, Deng comes up from behind and takes me for another 1/4th of my life. Assuming I don't just get stuck in place and shot from two sides while he repeatedly punches me.
Are you sure you're supposed to be fighting Deng yet?
There is a bit of a "chase" before you get him one on one. I think he might be unkillable before you get to the prescribed spot.
I ask because when I finally took him down it was just he and I, but I'd taken out like a dozen of his goons getting there.
It's the end fight I'm pretty sure. On the balcony, speech is being given. He's down by a quarter of his life at the start because of the chase.
I've had him near death a few times now, but I get blown up by a mine, or caught in an infinite loop of being punched/shot, and it's all over. Which is really annoying because it took some combination of 100 punches/bullets to even get him there.
Once you 'get it', and try to play how they wanted you rather than going online to complain about not being a crackshot space marine with unbreakable recharging health, the action gameplay is actually really good. Certainly more satisfying than ME1.
And while it's not as philosophically as deep as Kotor2, or even Deus Ex, the writing is still very good. Certainly better than anything Bioware has put out since BG2. And the voice acting is very good, the main character is much better than Mark Meer, though not quite as good as Jenifer Hale. And Nolan North's character is really very good in this game
Oh, I "get it". You suck, you use points, you get better.
That doesn't excuse someone having 3 points in pistols and still not being able to hit a person standing 10 feet away.
That's just bad design. I can see how the game would be fun when you get stats to much higher levels, but that doesn't change the fact that you can't really do anything effectively until then.
Sorry but you can hit things, you can't 'run and gun' but theres nothing that stops you aiming and headshotting anyone at any level.
Are you playing a different game?
Without standing completely still and pointing at a stationary target for 2.5 seconds (at level 3!), you have no idea where those bullets are going.
It takes a little practice, but you can get better at shooting (as a player) to the point where it's not a complete crapshoot at low level. But the pistol is the absolute worst weapon to run and gun with. It's for crits, tranqs and Chain Shot, and that's all.
I haven't spent a whole lot of time with SMGs yet, but the ARs with decent accuracy will usually take down an enemy at medium range in a burst or two without waiting for the crit. The shotgun is hell on wheels at close range, crit or not. By far the fastest way to clear a hallway is shotgun crit (roomsweeper if you have it) + stomp stomp stomp.
The AR's seem to work decently well, though I can't use them to beat this boss anyway, since he just bum rushes me if I ADS.
Really, I'm just a bit miffed that there's no physical way I can beat this boss, aside from exploiting AI glitches, because none of my individual skills are leveled up enough to significantly damage him.
That's really, really stupid.
This is Omen Dang, right?
I went to Taipei first, and I fought him with Pistols 4, Martial Arts 5 or something like that. He was rough, but definitely not unkillable.
Stealth out, chain tranq his head, get up next to him and mash B. When he runs, chase him.
The real trouble I had with that fight was camera related.
Aside from the camera, nothing applies here, I guess.
I go invisible, but he just spots me anyway.
I chain shoot him but it doesn't do any damage.
I try to melee him, and he just blocks and counters taking 1/4th of my life.
I try gadgets, he dodges them, or they just don't hit.
If I can get him down to low health by cheesing out the AI, he runs away constantly while his goons riddle me with bullets. If I confront them, Deng comes up from behind and takes me for another 1/4th of my life. Assuming I don't just get stuck in place and shot from two sides while he repeatedly punches me.
Are you sure you're supposed to be fighting Deng yet?
There is a bit of a "chase" before you get him one on one. I think he might be unkillable before you get to the prescribed spot.
I ask because when I finally took him down it was just he and I, but I'd taken out like a dozen of his goons getting there.
It's the end fight I'm pretty sure. On the balcony, speech is being given. He's down by a quarter of his life at the start because of the chase.
I've had him near death a few times now, but I get blown up by a mine, or caught in an infinite loop of being punched/shot, and it's all over.
I fought him first with fury 1 and chain shoot 2 not sure what level that makes the overall skills, but he was a push over. Just used fury to get close and knock off his armor then chain shot him, run around until my skills came back up and finished him.
Buy some more health kits, Nickle? He was a tough one, so I ended up bringing extra kits just in case. My Chain Shot level was where I could take three shots, and I just took off the silencer and switched to AP bullets and he went down after about three Chain Shots.
Edit: I fucked up at this one spot, so I reloaded my checkpoint. All the guards disappeared. Does anyone know what the game counts those missing guards as? Kills? I sure hope not. God damn game!
Dashui on
Xbox Live, PSN & Origin: Vacorsis 3DS: 2638-0037-166
Remember to lose the silencer during boss fights, especially the early ones that are actual damage penalties instead of just a lack of bonuses.
I'm not sure what the multiplier on a chain shot crit is, but having those extra couple of points is noticable.
Also remember that the dude has some armor that regenerates, so if it looks like you're not hurting him it's probably because the armor bar is hard to see on your screen (it is for me). I thought some dudes were just damage immune until I figured out what was going on.
Buy some more health kits, Nickle? He was a tough one, so I ended up bringing extra kits just in case. My Chain Shot level was where I could take three shots, and I just took off the silencer and switched to AP bullets and he went down after about three Chain Shots.
I don't know, it's not really a health thing, it's more of a get caught in an infinite loop or blown up by a mine and die at full health issue. The real problem is that it takes me so long to kill him, there are plenty of chances for those two things to happen.
I guess maybe I'll just exit out and do some other city, because the branching story and interactions show promise, and it looks like some of the later abilities might be fun.
It's just a shame that they made your character so extremely powerless at the beginning of the game that something like this could happen.
I get what they were going for, but boy, did they go to far.
e: I've seen the armor, and even with it gone, my punches and bullets do nothing. Melee seems to wipe the armor out in one hit anyway. I also do have a silencer on my pistol, but it's mkII and shows no damage penalty.
Also, I just finished the Embassy attack with 0 kills, 0 alarms on hard. Final fight? Enter the area, chainshot four of the bad guys there, head tranq's. Throw flashbang to one side, flip fury on, run to the other, take out the 2 newly entered guys. Throw another flashbang to the other side, run to it, take out the two guys there. That should take care of it.
Surkov had full health and armor by the time the cutscene kicked in.
Once you 'get it', and try to play how they wanted you rather than going online to complain about not being a crackshot space marine with unbreakable recharging health, the action gameplay is actually really good. Certainly more satisfying than ME1.
Well, I decided to give it another go, and I actually managed to beat him. I switched to the steel core ammo and it seemed to about double the sliver of damage I was doing, so the strategy of punching him a few times and unloading with the pistol panned out. I managed to get a few lucky shots on the goons he called out, and he never called out anymore.
I leveled up (and threw everything into pistols!) and have moved on, hopefully I can start having fun again. Basically I didn't "get it" for the first part of the game, and then as I went through Taiwan I started enjoying it right up until that point, so hopefully I can fall back into that groove.
Thanks for putting up with my bitching, in any case.
e: If anyone who can shoot a man at 10 feet reliably is a space marine, the world you live in must be a fantastic place.
I don't know what to say, unless I was unloading the whole clip rapid fire in a second or two in the general direction without aiming, I never had problems even with snapshots to center mass with the pistol. Which was only a couple shots of the normal ammo
EDIT: at close range of course. The AR is what you use for mid range or further
ME1's combat wasn't good, but AP's is worse. In ME1, skills actually improved your weapon handling, while meager gunplay was bolstered by a full bank of powers to use, and only at the beginning of the game did they take a minute to recharge. In AP, unless you spread yourself thin, you'll only have a few powers, and they take awhile to charge throughout the game.
Of course, it's probably better off with fewer powers because constantly going into the menu to switch powers would get annoying, but the gameplay is still uninspiring.
So, this is on sale at Fry's till the end of today for $40 (PC). Am I going to regret picking this up at that price?
You could just play a "wait and see" game as Spoit said it is cheaper, 25 pounds (~37 dollars), at D2D UK and at Steam if you can get friend in the UK to gift it to you. Patches/fan fixes may or may not come but these prices seem to be MSRP for the Brits so there's no rush to buy it on sale for $40.
Tertiee on
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David_TA fashion yes-man is no good to me.Copenhagen, DenmarkRegistered Userregular
edited June 2010
Nasri.
After the Nasri mission in Saudi Arabia, does Westbridge tell you anything important in the debriefing?
I missed switching shipping labels and immediately after the mission I just loaded the autosave without looking, thinking it would put me back at the last checkpoint. Instead it put me back in the safehouse, after the debriefing. Is it worth it to go back and play the mission again or does he just go "Good job!" and the label switching doesn't matter?
After the Nasri mission in Saudi Arabia, does Westbridge tell you anything important in the debriefing?
I missed switching shipping labels and immediately after the mission I just loaded the autosave without looking, thinking it would put me back at the last checkpoint. Instead it put me back in the safehouse, after the debriefing. Is it worth it to go back and play the mission again or does he just go "Good job!" and the label switching doesn't matter?
I cant remember what was in the container but if its weapons it generally means that your opponents will just be better equipped.
Posts
and to be fair nickle, the game sorta implies to focus on three things. it didn't outrightly state it though and you have a right to be upset. i looked at your stat set and you might have some trouble.
XBL: Slimebucato
"Thorton chose to attack the embassy outright, opening fire on Marines and guards stationed there in order to get inside."
No I didn't! I sneaked inside! I went in via the roof access and used a non-lethal takedown on the one guard up there!
"During the firefight, Thorton dealt with members of the opposing faction but ended up killing embassy guards."
NO I DIDN'T! WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO ME, GAME?
Every single aspect is worse than in other games. The dialog and writing are bog standard, certainly not enough to excuse the other problems with the game. If I had to grade it it would be in C-D range. It's certainly not a masterpiece, flawed or otherwise. I'm inclined to say it's the worst of Obsidian's games, and that's saying a lot. It's not the worst game ever, though, that honor belongs to Fort Zombie.
I would also say that thus far this game has the best plot reactivity I've seen yet, but again, I haven't played Way of the Samurai.
Ignore him, its a flawed masterpiece and the dialogue certainly isn't bog standard. Bog standard is a Gears of War or GTA plot, something not designed to do anything but be there.
And the embassy mission I don't recall my summary but I don't recall it being bad, its possibly you did kill someone, did you shoot people with the pistol and not use tranq ammo? Also depends how you got in, I bluffed my way as an inspector. Albatross was mucho impressed.
And while it's not as philosophically as deep as Kotor2, or even Deus Ex, the writing is still very good. Certainly better than anything Bioware has put out since BG2. And the voice acting is very good, the main character is much better than Mark Meer, though not quite as good as Jenifer Hale. And Nolan North's character is really very good in this game
After the first 2 missions, I have yet to fire a single shot that wasn't a tranquilizer round.
The Raid
I haven't found over specialization to be really that necessary. My first run I kept MA, Stealth and Pistols within a level or two of each other, and also leveled Sabotage and I did just fine. This run, I got to 5 in Stealth, AR, Shotgun, Toughness and Martial Arts at roughly the same time and I didn't feel like I was hurting for it.
Next run will be the real acid test, though. I'm going to try leveling SMG, Pistol, Sabotage, Stealth, Technical Aptitude and Martial Arts. We'll see how much I'm suffering then, I guess.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
Oh, I "get it". You suck, you use points, you get better.
That doesn't excuse someone having 3 points in pistols and still not being able to hit a person standing 10 feet away. No one born with thumbs or the ability to see could ever be as bad at shooting as the main character of this game at the start.
That's just bad design.
I can see how the game would be fun when you get stats to much higher levels, but that doesn't change the fact that you can't really do anything effectively until then. Right now, I can't even get past the first real boss fight, because I had the audacity to spread my points into 6 (!) different attributes, instead of one or two.
Sorry but you can hit things, you can't 'run and gun' but theres nothing that stops you aiming and headshotting anyone at any level.
I personally would hate it if a game that is a hommage to the spy gerne turned into some deep philosphical stoner rpg. (I loved Kotor2 and Deus Ex)
It does conspiracy and characters already better than any other similiar spy game and a big chunk of the garbage in bookstores that currently seems to be written.
Also Dialog is incredible and does a large part in giving the characters depth.
I'm more than statisfied concerning Story. :!:
This changes things.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
Are you playing a different game?
Without standing completely still and pointing at a stationary target for 2.5 seconds (at level 3!), you have no idea where those bullets are going.
I've never complained that you aren't an unstoppable space marine, only that maybe they could have added skill as you went along, instead of starting you out as a guy who can't do anything at all.
It's a poor design decision.
Having spent many an afternoon at my uncle's firing range, I can tell you that this is exactly how guns work.
I haven't spent a whole lot of time with SMGs yet, but the ARs with decent accuracy will usually take down an enemy at medium range in a burst or two without waiting for the crit. The shotgun is hell on wheels at close range, crit or not. By far the fastest way to clear a hallway is shotgun crit (roomsweeper if you have it) + stomp stomp stomp.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
The AR's seem to work decently well, though I can't use them to beat this boss anyway, since he just bum rushes me if I ADS.
Really, I'm just a bit miffed that there's no physical way I can beat this boss, aside from exploiting AI glitches, because none of my individual skills are leveled up enough to significantly damage him.
That's really, really stupid.
Man, the real spies of the world should know that you can't hit moving targets, or ever shoot a man sized object at 10 feet without aiming at it for 3 seconds.
They are so screwed.
Boss fights are pretty poor. Honestly I'd just pour points into chain shot, it works on everything, even beyond-crit-range sniping (inexplicably). I haven't seen him dodge any, but I've been doing it when he starts running down the hall towards you. Make sure to wait for the crit. I didn't even know he had goons or mines because he dies so quickly this way.
Modding: it has .ini files with variables like ME does, but they're a huge jumble (in Notepad++, the weapon .ini file is 10 lines and 25,000 columns), but someone will probably sort through them eventually and that ought to make weapon accuracy suck less.
Game: the gameplay is mediocre and the skills are massively imbalanced, and I found the dialogue, voice acting, characters (with few exceptions), and plot to be fairly uninteresting (though there are some good lines). It seems much harder to make a story with meaning in a (semi)realistic, modern setting as opposed to one with loftier forces at play, and AP is obviously more a spy story than a human story. KOTOR2, BG, Planescape, Vampire, etc. it isn't.
The real draw here is the reactivity, as demonstrated by people in this thread hearing someone else mention the final boss and going "wait, what? that wasn't my boss at all!" I don't think there's a game out that has offered as many altered beasts to play with, so it's interesting in terms of game design. Whether that's worth $40 is up to you.
ME1's combat wasn't good, but AP's is worse. In ME1, skills actually improved your weapon handling, while meager gunplay was bolstered by a full bank of powers to use, and only at the beginning of the game did they take a minute to recharge. In AP, unless you spread yourself thin, you'll only have a few powers, and they take awhile to charge throughout the game.
I went to Taipei first, and I fought him with Pistols 4, Martial Arts 5 or something like that. He was rough, but definitely not unkillable.
Stealth out, chain tranq his head, get up next to him and mash B. When he runs, chase him.
The real trouble I had with that fight was camera related.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
I'm not killing anyone, though, and that's what's pissing me off. I don't want the game and then characters telling me I'm a psychopath when I've been stealthy and non-lethal! I'm trying this again, in any case.
I just got to Surkov and he still says,
"If your plan was to sneak in here, judging by the gunfire and the people you've killed, I think you've failed."
He thinks I'm a terrorist due to my armor, though, so perhaps that's why he said that and not an actual comment on my performance. This is my third time going through here so hopefully the game won't tell me I murdered marines and blasted my way through the entrance. The last two I went in via the roof access and knocked out the guard up there, but this time I talked up the guard at the front and walked right through.
Aside from the camera, nothing applies here, I guess.
I go invisible, but he just spots me anyway.
I chain shoot him but it doesn't do any damage.
I try to melee him, and he just blocks and counters taking 1/4th of my life.
I try gadgets, he dodges them, or they just don't hit.
If I can get him down to low health by cheesing out the AI, he runs away constantly while his goons riddle me with bullets. If I confront them, Deng comes up from behind and takes me for another 1/4th of my life. Assuming I don't just get stuck in place and shot from two sides while he repeatedly punches me, and I struggle to get the game to understand that I want to punch him back, and not punch the air 5 feet in front of the grunt.
Meanwhile I'm just trying to chase him down and dodging his mines, just trying to punch him for that last sliver of health, because trying to shoot him while he's running around is a fool's errand.
There is a bit of a "chase" before you get him one on one. I think he might be unkillable before you get to the prescribed spot.
I ask because when I finally took him down it was just he and I, but I'd taken out like a dozen of his goons getting there.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
It's the end fight I'm pretty sure. On the balcony, speech is being given. He's down by a quarter of his life at the start because of the chase.
I've had him near death a few times now, but I get blown up by a mine, or caught in an infinite loop of being punched/shot, and it's all over. Which is really annoying because it took some combination of 100 punches/bullets to even get him there.
I fought him first with fury 1 and chain shoot 2 not sure what level that makes the overall skills, but he was a push over. Just used fury to get close and knock off his armor then chain shot him, run around until my skills came back up and finished him.
Edit: I fucked up at this one spot, so I reloaded my checkpoint. All the guards disappeared. Does anyone know what the game counts those missing guards as? Kills? I sure hope not. God damn game!
I'm not sure what the multiplier on a chain shot crit is, but having those extra couple of points is noticable.
Also remember that the dude has some armor that regenerates, so if it looks like you're not hurting him it's probably because the armor bar is hard to see on your screen (it is for me). I thought some dudes were just damage immune until I figured out what was going on.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
I don't know, it's not really a health thing, it's more of a get caught in an infinite loop or blown up by a mine and die at full health issue. The real problem is that it takes me so long to kill him, there are plenty of chances for those two things to happen.
I guess maybe I'll just exit out and do some other city, because the branching story and interactions show promise, and it looks like some of the later abilities might be fun.
It's just a shame that they made your character so extremely powerless at the beginning of the game that something like this could happen.
I get what they were going for, but boy, did they go to far.
e: I've seen the armor, and even with it gone, my punches and bullets do nothing. Melee seems to wipe the armor out in one hit anyway. I also do have a silencer on my pistol, but it's mkII and shows no damage penalty.
Deng gets a lot more fun with the flying knee.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
Also, I just finished the Embassy attack with 0 kills, 0 alarms on hard. Final fight? Enter the area, chainshot four of the bad guys there, head tranq's. Throw flashbang to one side, flip fury on, run to the other, take out the 2 newly entered guys. Throw another flashbang to the other side, run to it, take out the two guys there. That should take care of it.
Surkov had full health and armor by the time the cutscene kicked in.
Well, I decided to give it another go, and I actually managed to beat him. I switched to the steel core ammo and it seemed to about double the sliver of damage I was doing, so the strategy of punching him a few times and unloading with the pistol panned out. I managed to get a few lucky shots on the goons he called out, and he never called out anymore.
I leveled up (and threw everything into pistols!) and have moved on, hopefully I can start having fun again. Basically I didn't "get it" for the first part of the game, and then as I went through Taiwan I started enjoying it right up until that point, so hopefully I can fall back into that groove.
Thanks for putting up with my bitching, in any case.
e: If anyone who can shoot a man at 10 feet reliably is a space marine, the world you live in must be a fantastic place.
EDIT: at close range of course. The AR is what you use for mid range or further
Of course, it's probably better off with fewer powers because constantly going into the menu to switch powers would get annoying, but the gameplay is still uninspiring.
You could just play a "wait and see" game as Spoit said it is cheaper, 25 pounds (~37 dollars), at D2D UK and at Steam if you can get friend in the UK to gift it to you. Patches/fan fixes may or may not come but these prices seem to be MSRP for the Brits so there's no rush to buy it on sale for $40.
I missed switching shipping labels and immediately after the mission I just loaded the autosave without looking, thinking it would put me back at the last checkpoint. Instead it put me back in the safehouse, after the debriefing. Is it worth it to go back and play the mission again or does he just go "Good job!" and the label switching doesn't matter?
I cant remember what was in the container but if its weapons it generally means that your opponents will just be better equipped.