DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
edited June 2010
I'm a little iffy on Rare right now.
Like a decade ago they put out some of my favorite games(Perfect Dark, Killer Instinct), but they haven't shown themselves to be all that capable since then.
So, I find it hard to care about them much these days.
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PaperLuigi44My amazement is at maximum capacity.Registered Userregular
edited June 2010
My only real gripe with Nuts and Bolts were several of the character models, but even for someone as creatively bankrupt as myself, I had tons of creations that I was proud to use. Nothing beats laser-cannon Batmobile.
Here's to another 25 years, I still love their games, all the 360 ones included.
Especially the 360 ones - Kameo, Viva Pinata, BK : N&B were all great. PD0 and the Arcade release have their problems but are still fantastic in multiplayer. And the BK Arcade releases along with Jetpac were both welcome and great. Plus, I like Avatars.
Looking forward to seeing what they are working on next.
Right now they are working on showing us what the top of an Avatar's head looks like.
All the hate for nuts'n'bolts in this thread makes me sad.
The demo should've included the ability to totally break any mission with the garage...how the game intended.
Bolts one flaw to me was that it should have been more exploration and boss focuses with challenges limited to a few races and transport segments.
Those levels were huge but almost completely empty. Part of it was so they could make you go from A to B and have the time limit seem imposing . It got boring and there was little reason to explore them at all
Shadow of the Colossus was an okay game, but it would have been much better if you could get to every Colossi by walking down a narrow corridor for 20 seconds.
So you are saying Shadow of the Colossus is a better game after you beat it?
Seriously though, if you don't feel like spending $10 on the sequel (which plays like an upgraded version of the game with multiplayer), the original Viva Pinata goes for 98 cents used on amazon. No reason not to pick it up unless your absolutely hate any game where you are not shooting bad guys every three seconds.
My only real gripe with Nuts and Bolts were several of the character models, but even for someone as creatively bankrupt as myself, I had tons of creations that I was proud to use. Nothing beats laser-cannon Batmobile.
Ahh I had forgotten how I loved the music in Nuts and bolt. I've always loved how the music tracks gradually transform while moving from one area to the other in the Banjo games.
As for the game itself, it was more fun than I expected. It was only a rental so I finished it but never got around to collect everything but then again I don't think I would've enjoyed getting puzzle pieces in some of the levels. Most of the levels were fun except the one inside a computer and the last one inside some freaky garden. These 2 levels were too cramped and cluttered to make driving/flying around them enjoyable. Oh and the computer level also had a terrible framerate.
the last rare game i played was either Banjo Kazooi or Diddy Kong Racing (whichever came out later) and I loved both those. I was looking forward to Banjo Tooie but then I got real busy with school and never played it. And I never got an Xbox of either kind.
This thread needs Nuts and Bolts stories so people can seriously understand how good this game really is.
I'll start be re-iterating a story I told in a previous thread.
So the mission I was given was to drive down a large ski ramp and jump, getting as much distance as I possibly could achieve. The game recommended a vehicle with a lot of weight so it'd have an easier time carrying itself (yes, weight factors in here and you get a gauge telling you how heavy your vehicle is) so I start off by using the heaviest pre-made vehicle I own which is basically a giant boot on wheels.
Now the way this works is you start at the top of the ramp and speed down it, as soon as you hit the jump you lose total control of your vehicle and once it comes to a full stop your distance is tallied up.
My first attempt went meh, I got enough distance to win some notes (ie: currency) but not enough for the Jiggy and not nearly enough for the trophy (bonus item, attached to achievements). So I throw some fold out wings on the boot and remove the leg section to make it more aerodynamic. I rush down the ramp, hit the fold out button at the last second and the vehicle soars. I just manage to get past the jiggy point and I hit a wall (ie: can't control the thing).
I try spicing it up, hitting the ramp at different angles but nothing works, no trophy.
So I tried a new approach.
I design a small, heavy ball and place Banjo's seat right in the middle of it. Then I create a platform with all the engines I own (a lot), some fuel and wheels. Finally I attach the ball piece to the platform using a unique gadget which, at the push of a button, allows you to detach a section of the vehicle from another section (the vehicle is defined by whereever banjo sits).
I take this beast down the ramp and just as I hit the jump I hit the detach button and the ball goes flying. It rolls and rolls...and rolls. I made it way past the trophy point and it was an amazingly fun vehicle to build.
Add your stories!
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Brainiac 8Don't call me Shirley...Registered Userregular
edited June 2010
I want platforming, not lego building.
It's that whole aspect that didn't appeal one bit to me.
It may not be a bad game and it may be fun for those who like the idea, but blech, make an original game with that premise, don't promise me Banjo, then give me a vehicle building sim.
It's that whole aspect that didn't appeal one bit to me.
It may not be a bad game and it may be fun for those who like the idea, but blech, make an original game with that premise, don't promise me Banjo, then give me a vehicle building sim.
Again, you say that as if playing with Legos isn't awesome.
Sipex: In that mission, or another similar distance challenge I made a vehicle that when I detached in mid air all that would remain is the seat surrounded by springs.
You could technically achieve an infinite score but couldn't actually finish it because you were stuck barely bouncing between 2 of the springs forever. The challenge couldn't end.
It's that whole aspect that didn't appeal one bit to me.
It may not be a bad game and it may be fun for those who like the idea, but blech, make an original game with that premise, don't promise me Banjo, then give me a vehicle building sim.
While the original trailer was a lame move by Rare, I don't see the problem with putting Banjo and Kazooie into a non-platformer game. Does it bother people that much to see Mario Kart, Mario Party, Mario Golf, and Mario RPG? Using an established character in an otherwise unrelated game does give it more attention and sales, but it also gives it a lot of charm, so I don't see it as a bad thing.
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Brainiac 8Don't call me Shirley...Registered Userregular
It's that whole aspect that didn't appeal one bit to me.
It may not be a bad game and it may be fun for those who like the idea, but blech, make an original game with that premise, don't promise me Banjo, then give me a vehicle building sim.
Again, you say that as if playing with Legos isn't awesome.
Legos are indeed awesome....but I don't really want Legos in my Banjo. :P
I hated Nuts and Bolts (or at least the demo) because the vehicle controlled like an ice cube on stilts, and effffffffuck playing that for twelve hours
Also I hate collectathons
Rent go :P
Sorry bud, but in order to make Rent go you have to get 200 totems, 10 eggs, 15 pieces of cheese, 79 birds, 100 dildoes, 80 puzzle pieces, and a tuna sandwich!
...not even going to ask why you'd want 100 dildos. Or 79 birds, for that matter.
Please for the love of god will Rare make a New Battletoads in the ultra violent style of the original arcade game now.
Oh, wow. I... I didn't think anyone would say this before I got to. Well, while I'm here, may as well lime it.
Anyway, I would gladly settle for an XBLA release of the arcade game, too.
In addition, I really, really wish they would dust off Wizards & Warriors. Kuros must rise again!
It would be nice to have the originals back on Virtual Console, but remakes on XBLA would be cool, too.
A new R.C. Pro-Am might be nice.
On the subject of Killer Instinct, count me in as a fan. I liked the Super NES game more than KI Gold, though. Jago and Fulgore were my favorites to use.
Donkey Kong Country, I loved, and Diddy's Kong Quest was good as well. I really liked how they managed to flesh out DK and such. Sadly, the big ape just hasn't been the same since Rare left.
Of course, there was Donkey Kong Country 3. That one was okay, but not spectacular.
And, as noted, DK64. I had honestly hoped to see a DS version, a la Super Mario 64, with some improved graphics and tweaks to make the game overall more tolerable. Alas.
Banjo, I've always liked, though I've never played the games. I just like the character, for whatever reason.
That said, as a n00b to that series, where would be the best place to start? The original game, or Nuts & Bolts?
And finally, as I pointed out in another thread a while back, I've really come to like Avatars. I wish I could play a good platformer with mine (Indie games notwithstanding). You'd think Rare would be working on something like that. Or maybe some Banjo/Conker variation of Diddy Kong Racing that allows for racing as your Avatar.
Maybe that's what they'll make for Natal?
Something Perfect Dark-ish with Avatars would be cool, too. I know they said you can't shoot them, but what about some variation of NERF, laser tag, or paintball?
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For a newbie to the Banjo & Kazooie series I'd recommend starting with Banjo & Kazooie, then, whether you like it or not, try Nuts'n'Bolts with completely different expectations.
Banjo, I've always liked, though I've never played the games. I just like the character, for whatever reason.
That said, as a n00b to that series, where would be the best place to start? The original game, or Nuts & Bolts?
I'd start with the original Banjo-Kazooie, and then switch to Nuts & Bolts. BK1 is still solid fun, but Tooie just isn't all that great. Rare went for a bigger-is-better approach with Tooie, but they ended up making it extremely tedious. There's so much back-and-worth trekking you have to do, especially with Mumbo and the split-up Banjo and Kazooie, most levels are just too big, sparse, and boring, and you have to do so much back-tracking but it's rarely clear if/when something can only be obtained by backtracking. Despite my good memories of the game back when it was on the N64, I can't bring myself to even finish it on the XBLA edition. Grunty Industries is the worst level ever.
Now look what you fuckers have done. I just downloaded DKCountry on the Virtual Console. That Youtube of the opening was all it took to hit off so many memories.
Man, whatever. Banjo-Kazooie and Banjo-Tooie are both fun and worthwhile games. DK64 was incredibly bogged down, though, so I'll agree with you there.
Eh. I can see the appeal in BK I just don't like it because it feels so utterly a slightly inferior clone of Mario 64 to me. Tooie is awful and my first thought of whenever I think of "bad Rare games", because of the reasons I just posted. Let's not even mention DK64
You see, I look at Banjo-Kazooie and Banjo-Tooie and see games that out-do Mario 64 in every catagory: graphics, gameplay, controls, humor.
Anyone who likes 3D platformers, I can't say enough good things about those games.
Hmmm . . . lessee what Wiki has to say about all the games Rare made for the NES:
Slalom 1987
Wizards & Warriors 1987
R.C. Pro-Am 1988
Wheel of Fortune 1988
Jeopardy! 1988
Anticipation 1988
Marble Madness 1989
World Games 1989
WWF WrestleMania 1989
Sesame Street 1989 :?:
John Elway's Quarterback 1989
California Games 1989
Taboo: The Sixth Sense 1989
Sesame Street: A-B-C 1989 :?::!:
Hollywood Squares 1989 Who Framed Roger Rabbit? 1989
Jordan vs. Bird: One on One 1989
Cobra Triangle 1989
Ironsword: Wizards & Warriors II 1989 :^:
Wheel of Fortune Junior Edition 1989
Jeopardy! Junior Edition 1989
Silent Service 1989
Double Dare 1990
Wheel of Fortune Family Edition 1990
Jeopardy! 25th Anniversary Edition 1990
Captain Skyhawk 1990
Pin*Bot 1990 Snake Rattle 'n' Roll 1990
Super Off Road 1990
Narc 1990 o_O
A Nightmare on Elm Street 1990
Super Glove Ball 1990
Cabal 1990
Time Lord 1990
Arch Rivals 1990
WWF WrestleMania Challenge 1990
Solar Jetman: Hunt for the Golden Warpship 1990
Digger T. Rock 1991 Battletoads 1991 :^::^:
Beetlejuice 1991
High Speed 1991
Sesame Street ABC & 123 1991
Pirates! 1991
Wizards & Warriors III Kuros: Visions of Power 1992
Indy Heat 1992
R.C. Pro-Am II 1992
Lots of licensed stuff and ports of Midway games (didn't know about those), but hey, you have to start somewhere. Their original stuff, however, was solid gold.
Rare imitate Nintendo at every turn (seriously, the game is even set in a castle and worlds entered through paintings) but they just don't have the same mastery Nintendo do. Here's one example; in BK (and especcially BT) you keep learning new moves to get past new obstacles. In Mario 64? You have all your moves from the beginning, but as the worlds unfold they find new ways to challenge your ability and mastery of that moveset. You solve problems using the tools you had in new and better ways. In BT you reach a new obstacle and think 'okay where do I learn the move that gets me past this?'.
I like BK, it's a good game. But it is a Mario 64 clone and doesn't reach the same quality. BT isn't particularly good, though the world design was ambitious the rest of the game was worse than the original in most respects.
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Brainiac 8Don't call me Shirley...Registered Userregular
edited June 2010
Heh, my Nintendo collection is chock full of early Rare goodness.
To me, where BK (and BT and DK64 and CBFD) excels over Super Mario 64 is in the controls.
SM64 controls are so damn slippery and imprecise. For years I thought it was the fault of the awful N64 controller, until I played it on the VC with the amazing Classic Controller. Nope. It's the game.
Say what you will about abilities and collecting doodads and whatnot, the control in Rare 3D platformers is so tight.
Rare imitate Nintendo at every turn (seriously, the game is even set in a castle and worlds entered through paintings) but they just don't have the same mastery Nintendo do. Here's one example; in BK (and especcially BT) you keep learning new moves to get past new obstacles. In Mario 64? You have all your moves from the beginning, but as the worlds unfold they find new ways to challenge your ability and mastery of that moveset. You solve problems using the tools you had in new and better ways. In BT you reach a new obstacle and think 'okay where do I learn the move that gets me past this?'.
I like BK, it's a good game. But it is a Mario 64 clone and doesn't reach the same quality. BT isn't particularly good, though the world design was ambitious the rest of the game was worse than the original in most respects.
Well, I'll pick some nits and point out that you don't enter pictures to enter the worlds: you complete pictures using jiggies which unlock/open a nearby door or treasure chest or whatever.
It's been awhile since I played Mario 64, but do you have an actual example of this mastery of the moveset?
Rare imitate Nintendo at every turn (seriously, the game is even set in a castle and worlds entered through paintings) but they just don't have the same mastery Nintendo do. Here's one example; in BK (and especcially BT) you keep learning new moves to get past new obstacles. In Mario 64? You have all your moves from the beginning, but as the worlds unfold they find new ways to challenge your ability and mastery of that moveset. You solve problems using the tools you had in new and better ways. In BT you reach a new obstacle and think 'okay where do I learn the move that gets me past this?'.
I like BK, it's a good game. But it is a Mario 64 clone and doesn't reach the same quality. BT isn't particularly good, though the world design was ambitious the rest of the game was worse than the original in most respects.
Well, I'll pick some nits and point out that you don't enter pictures to enter the worlds: you complete pictures using jiggies which unlock/open a nearby door or treasure chest or whatever.
It's been awhile since I played Mario 64, but do you have an actual example of this mastery of the moveset?
Other than the usual jump, flip, stomp, wall jump, etc. stuff we've seen recently, the only other "moves" needed in SM64 were the three cap power-ups which, big surprise, had to be earned and used in puzzles. Yes, Rare does a damn good job of refining things, but to call B-K a straight up clone of Mario 64 does it a disservice. There was a whole lot more exploration to B-K, and that was why it was a joy to play - lots of huge playgrounds to mess around with, packed with nice details.
SM64 controls are so damn slippery and imprecise. For years I thought it was the fault of the awful N64 controller, until I played it on the VC with the amazing Classic Controller. Nope. It's the game.
Never had a problem when using the N64 controller, but the Classic? I found it wrecked me. Then I tried the GameCube controller, and things were good again.
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SM64 controls are so damn slippery and imprecise. For years I thought it was the fault of the awful N64 controller, until I played it on the VC with the amazing Classic Controller. Nope. It's the game.
Never had a problem when using the N64 controller, but the Classic? I found it wrecked me. Then I tried the GameCube controller, and things were good again.
I didn't have my GC controller on me when I had my Wii (it was pretty much kept at a friend's house for SSBB purposes), but that might have helped things.
Of all the 3D Marios, I really thought Sunshine controlled the best, and I'm sure the controller was a big reason why.
SM64 controls are so damn slippery and imprecise. For years I thought it was the fault of the awful N64 controller, until I played it on the VC with the amazing Classic Controller. Nope. It's the game.
Never had a problem when using the N64 controller, but the Classic? I found it wrecked me. Then I tried the GameCube controller, and things were good again.
I didn't have my GC controller on me when I had my Wii (it was pretty much kept at a friend's house for SSBB purposes), but that might have helped things.
Of all the 3D Marios, I really thought Sunshine controlled the best, and I'm sure the controller was a big reason why.
I love the GCN controller, but Sunshine is easily the weakest 3D Mario title.
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Brainiac 8Don't call me Shirley...Registered Userregular
edited June 2010
Super Mario Sunshine was awesome, so shut your mouth sir! :x
So far my 3-D Mario outings goes in reverse order: SMG2, SMG, Sunshine, SM64. That is from my favorite to my least favorite...how wierd is that. :P
Yeah man, I love Maro 64, but the original BK is better in almost every way - graphics, audio, controls, gameplay and pace. Some of the best level design in Mario tops that in BK though, but some of it is less impressive (and actualy rather lame) too. Overall, BK is more consistant.
But y'know, Mario 64 will always have that 'holy shit analogue control 3D awesome WTF' association for me. BK is a lesson is pure videogame joy though, before Rare went apeshit with the 'collecting'.
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PaperLuigi44My amazement is at maximum capacity.Registered Userregular
edited June 2010
Did I mention that I played the shit out of the Tooie MP?
Because I played the shit out of the Tooie MP. Good times.
Posts
Like a decade ago they put out some of my favorite games(Perfect Dark, Killer Instinct), but they haven't shown themselves to be all that capable since then.
So, I find it hard to care about them much these days.
Oh, and Banjoland
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXqX2YkMkN8
Donkey Kong Country
The debut of the modern Rare logo, "created" via the same wireframe rendering techniques used throughout the game.
Banjo-Kazooie
ZOOOOOOO*THWACK!!!* Priceless.
Conker's Bad Fur Day
Conker really didn't like that N64 logo did he? "Marvelous."
Perfect Dark Zero
The first usage of the MS-era Rare logo, brought to us courtesy of Jetpac Dude.
I tried looking for the splash intro for Nuts & Bolts - with the "R" logo car - but to no avail.
Right now they are working on showing us what the top of an Avatar's head looks like.
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So you are saying Shadow of the Colossus is a better game after you beat it?
Seriously though, if you don't feel like spending $10 on the sequel (which plays like an upgraded version of the game with multiplayer), the original Viva Pinata goes for 98 cents used on amazon. No reason not to pick it up unless your absolutely hate any game where you are not shooting bad guys every three seconds.
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Ahh I had forgotten how I loved the music in Nuts and bolt. I've always loved how the music tracks gradually transform while moving from one area to the other in the Banjo games.
As for the game itself, it was more fun than I expected. It was only a rental so I finished it but never got around to collect everything but then again I don't think I would've enjoyed getting puzzle pieces in some of the levels. Most of the levels were fun except the one inside a computer and the last one inside some freaky garden. These 2 levels were too cramped and cluttered to make driving/flying around them enjoyable. Oh and the computer level also had a terrible framerate.
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Have I mentioned horrible taste? 'cause you have it.
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I'll start be re-iterating a story I told in a previous thread.
So the mission I was given was to drive down a large ski ramp and jump, getting as much distance as I possibly could achieve. The game recommended a vehicle with a lot of weight so it'd have an easier time carrying itself (yes, weight factors in here and you get a gauge telling you how heavy your vehicle is) so I start off by using the heaviest pre-made vehicle I own which is basically a giant boot on wheels.
Now the way this works is you start at the top of the ramp and speed down it, as soon as you hit the jump you lose total control of your vehicle and once it comes to a full stop your distance is tallied up.
My first attempt went meh, I got enough distance to win some notes (ie: currency) but not enough for the Jiggy and not nearly enough for the trophy (bonus item, attached to achievements). So I throw some fold out wings on the boot and remove the leg section to make it more aerodynamic. I rush down the ramp, hit the fold out button at the last second and the vehicle soars. I just manage to get past the jiggy point and I hit a wall (ie: can't control the thing).
I try spicing it up, hitting the ramp at different angles but nothing works, no trophy.
So I tried a new approach.
I design a small, heavy ball and place Banjo's seat right in the middle of it. Then I create a platform with all the engines I own (a lot), some fuel and wheels. Finally I attach the ball piece to the platform using a unique gadget which, at the push of a button, allows you to detach a section of the vehicle from another section (the vehicle is defined by whereever banjo sits).
I take this beast down the ramp and just as I hit the jump I hit the detach button and the ball goes flying. It rolls and rolls...and rolls. I made it way past the trophy point and it was an amazingly fun vehicle to build.
Add your stories!
It's that whole aspect that didn't appeal one bit to me.
It may not be a bad game and it may be fun for those who like the idea, but blech, make an original game with that premise, don't promise me Banjo, then give me a vehicle building sim.
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Again, you say that as if playing with Legos isn't awesome.
You could technically achieve an infinite score but couldn't actually finish it because you were stuck barely bouncing between 2 of the springs forever. The challenge couldn't end.
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While the original trailer was a lame move by Rare, I don't see the problem with putting Banjo and Kazooie into a non-platformer game. Does it bother people that much to see Mario Kart, Mario Party, Mario Golf, and Mario RPG? Using an established character in an otherwise unrelated game does give it more attention and sales, but it also gives it a lot of charm, so I don't see it as a bad thing.
Legos are indeed awesome....but I don't really want Legos in my Banjo. :P
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...not even going to ask why you'd want 100 dildos. Or 79 birds, for that matter.
Oh, wow. I... I didn't think anyone would say this before I got to. Well, while I'm here, may as well lime it.
Anyway, I would gladly settle for an XBLA release of the arcade game, too.
In addition, I really, really wish they would dust off Wizards & Warriors. Kuros must rise again!
It would be nice to have the originals back on Virtual Console, but remakes on XBLA would be cool, too.
A new R.C. Pro-Am might be nice.
On the subject of Killer Instinct, count me in as a fan. I liked the Super NES game more than KI Gold, though. Jago and Fulgore were my favorites to use.
Donkey Kong Country, I loved, and Diddy's Kong Quest was good as well. I really liked how they managed to flesh out DK and such. Sadly, the big ape just hasn't been the same since Rare left.
Of course, there was Donkey Kong Country 3. That one was okay, but not spectacular.
And, as noted, DK64. I had honestly hoped to see a DS version, a la Super Mario 64, with some improved graphics and tweaks to make the game overall more tolerable. Alas.
Banjo, I've always liked, though I've never played the games. I just like the character, for whatever reason.
That said, as a n00b to that series, where would be the best place to start? The original game, or Nuts & Bolts?
And finally, as I pointed out in another thread a while back, I've really come to like Avatars. I wish I could play a good platformer with mine (Indie games notwithstanding). You'd think Rare would be working on something like that. Or maybe some Banjo/Conker variation of Diddy Kong Racing that allows for racing as your Avatar.
Maybe that's what they'll make for Natal?
Something Perfect Dark-ish with Avatars would be cool, too. I know they said you can't shoot them, but what about some variation of NERF, laser tag, or paintball?
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Because they're really two seperate games.
Fucking Rare made R.C. Pro Am for the NES?
That game was pure gold
Yup, they did...and yes, it is still fun to play to this day.
One of my wife's favorite games to pop into our NES periodically.
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Why didn't you get DKC2?
Absolutely superior.
Not a bad start though
I apparently still remember all the bullshit hiding places for the bonus games!
You see, I look at Banjo-Kazooie and Banjo-Tooie and see games that out-do Mario 64 in every catagory: graphics, gameplay, controls, humor.
Anyone who likes 3D platformers, I can't say enough good things about those games.
Hmmm . . . lessee what Wiki has to say about all the games Rare made for the NES:
Wizards & Warriors 1987
R.C. Pro-Am 1988
Wheel of Fortune 1988
Jeopardy! 1988
Anticipation 1988
Marble Madness 1989
World Games 1989
WWF WrestleMania 1989
Sesame Street 1989 :?:
John Elway's Quarterback 1989
California Games 1989
Taboo: The Sixth Sense 1989
Sesame Street: A-B-C 1989 :?::!:
Hollywood Squares 1989
Who Framed Roger Rabbit? 1989
Jordan vs. Bird: One on One 1989
Cobra Triangle 1989
Ironsword: Wizards & Warriors II 1989 :^:
Wheel of Fortune Junior Edition 1989
Jeopardy! Junior Edition 1989
Silent Service 1989
Double Dare 1990
Wheel of Fortune Family Edition 1990
Jeopardy! 25th Anniversary Edition 1990
Captain Skyhawk 1990
Pin*Bot 1990
Snake Rattle 'n' Roll 1990
Super Off Road 1990
Narc 1990 o_O
A Nightmare on Elm Street 1990
Super Glove Ball 1990
Cabal 1990
Time Lord 1990
Arch Rivals 1990
WWF WrestleMania Challenge 1990
Solar Jetman: Hunt for the Golden Warpship 1990
Digger T. Rock 1991
Battletoads 1991 :^::^:
Beetlejuice 1991
High Speed 1991
Sesame Street ABC & 123 1991
Pirates! 1991
Wizards & Warriors III Kuros: Visions of Power 1992
Indy Heat 1992
R.C. Pro-Am II 1992
Lots of licensed stuff and ports of Midway games (didn't know about those), but hey, you have to start somewhere. Their original stuff, however, was solid gold.
Rare imitate Nintendo at every turn (seriously, the game is even set in a castle and worlds entered through paintings) but they just don't have the same mastery Nintendo do. Here's one example; in BK (and especcially BT) you keep learning new moves to get past new obstacles. In Mario 64? You have all your moves from the beginning, but as the worlds unfold they find new ways to challenge your ability and mastery of that moveset. You solve problems using the tools you had in new and better ways. In BT you reach a new obstacle and think 'okay where do I learn the move that gets me past this?'.
I like BK, it's a good game. But it is a Mario 64 clone and doesn't reach the same quality. BT isn't particularly good, though the world design was ambitious the rest of the game was worse than the original in most respects.
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SM64 controls are so damn slippery and imprecise. For years I thought it was the fault of the awful N64 controller, until I played it on the VC with the amazing Classic Controller. Nope. It's the game.
Say what you will about abilities and collecting doodads and whatnot, the control in Rare 3D platformers is so tight.
Well, I'll pick some nits and point out that you don't enter pictures to enter the worlds: you complete pictures using jiggies which unlock/open a nearby door or treasure chest or whatever.
It's been awhile since I played Mario 64, but do you have an actual example of this mastery of the moveset?
Other than the usual jump, flip, stomp, wall jump, etc. stuff we've seen recently, the only other "moves" needed in SM64 were the three cap power-ups which, big surprise, had to be earned and used in puzzles. Yes, Rare does a damn good job of refining things, but to call B-K a straight up clone of Mario 64 does it a disservice. There was a whole lot more exploration to B-K, and that was why it was a joy to play - lots of huge playgrounds to mess around with, packed with nice details.
Never had a problem when using the N64 controller, but the Classic? I found it wrecked me. Then I tried the GameCube controller, and things were good again.
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I didn't have my GC controller on me when I had my Wii (it was pretty much kept at a friend's house for SSBB purposes), but that might have helped things.
Of all the 3D Marios, I really thought Sunshine controlled the best, and I'm sure the controller was a big reason why.
So far my 3-D Mario outings goes in reverse order: SMG2, SMG, Sunshine, SM64. That is from my favorite to my least favorite...how wierd is that. :P
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I didn't say that it was terrible, just that the other 3 3-D Mario games are better than it is.
But y'know, Mario 64 will always have that 'holy shit analogue control 3D awesome WTF' association for me. BK is a lesson is pure videogame joy though, before Rare went apeshit with the 'collecting'.
Because I played the shit out of the Tooie MP. Good times.