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There are many Fantasies; but this, like the last, was Final [FFXI]

1235742

Posts

  • KiTAKiTA Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Tag wrote: »
    Huh, what is today's patch for?

    Prepatch for the 21st.

    time to crash, the dawn is up, the sun gleems out glorious ps4 sunbeams and i can trade those sunbeams and do whatever i want with them.
  • OrmiOrmi Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    seabass wrote: »
    It went available for pre-order last night according to my POL login screens.

    Also, terrestrial avatars GET!

    Celestial LRUlb.gif

  • seabassseabass Doctor MassachusettsRegistered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Ormi wrote: »
    seabass wrote: »
    It went available for pre-order last night according to my POL login screens.

    Also, terrestrial avatars GET!

    Celestial LRUlb.gif

    Really? Huh. I'll keep that in mind then.

    Run you pigeons, it's Robert Frost!
  • OrmiOrmi Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    seabass wrote: »
    Ormi wrote: »
    seabass wrote: »
    It went available for pre-order last night according to my POL login screens.

    Also, terrestrial avatars GET!

    Celestial LRUlb.gif

    Really? Huh. I'll keep that in mind then.

    Yep. You'll notice they're the ones with stars in the sky, which Carbuncle and crew are without.

  • KiTAKiTA Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    What are you guys talking about? Are Summoners getting MORE summons?

    time to crash, the dawn is up, the sun gleems out glorious ps4 sunbeams and i can trade those sunbeams and do whatever i want with them.
  • TagTag Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Heh I accidentally bought a M.Kris and now I am broke. Time for more fishing.

    Overwatch: TomFoolery#1388
    Black Desert: Family Name: Foolery. Characters: Tome & Beerserk.
    (Retired) GW2 Characters (Fort Aspenwood): Roy Gee Biv
    (Retired) Let's Play: Lone Wolf
  • OrmiOrmi Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    KiTA wrote: »
    What are you guys talking about? Are Summoners getting MORE summons?

    Plot details.

  • Just_Bri_ThanksJust_Bri_Thanks Seething with rage from a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2010
    I bought some arrows for the next job I will be playing; Ranger. That and some silent oil, and now I have 7k gil.

    Some days I just want to smack people with a rolled up newspaper. Or a phone book.
    A folding chair is looking like an attractive option right now too...
  • TagTag Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    I bought some arrows for the next job I will be playing; Ranger. That and some silent oil, and now I have 7k gil.

    I woulda gone with Xbow ranger myself; bolts are dirt cheap and you do more damage than any other ranger build (unless someone else is putting up acid bolts anyway ;P ) Plus it's nice to have a sleep and lifedrain.

    Overwatch: TomFoolery#1388
    Black Desert: Family Name: Foolery. Characters: Tome & Beerserk.
    (Retired) GW2 Characters (Fort Aspenwood): Roy Gee Biv
    (Retired) Let's Play: Lone Wolf
  • Just_Bri_ThanksJust_Bri_Thanks Seething with rage from a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2010
    I'll keep that in mind once I use up these arrows.

    Some days I just want to smack people with a rolled up newspaper. Or a phone book.
    A folding chair is looking like an attractive option right now too...
  • TagTag Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Well I suppose it also depends on how high you want to take it, the cost benefit only kicks in big time later.

    12xHoly Bolt Quiver = 25k
    12xDemon Arrow Quiver = 75k
    12xSilver Bullet Pouch = 125k

    Overwatch: TomFoolery#1388
    Black Desert: Family Name: Foolery. Characters: Tome & Beerserk.
    (Retired) GW2 Characters (Fort Aspenwood): Roy Gee Biv
    (Retired) Let's Play: Lone Wolf
  • Just_Bri_ThanksJust_Bri_Thanks Seething with rage from a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2010
    You are comparing a level 30 bolt with a level 60 arrow and a level 50 bullet.

    If you wanted to compare a level 30 arrow with that level 30 bolt then we could go a stack of Horn quivers for 20k.

    Edit:

    Horn_Arrow.jpg

    Demon_Arrow.gif

    Holy_Bolt.gif

    Further edit: I wanted to make the point that there are not really equvilants between the three ranged weapon types useful to Rangers. They all play out quite differently which, I suppose, was the point.

    Some days I just want to smack people with a rolled up newspaper. Or a phone book.
    A folding chair is looking like an attractive option right now too...
  • TagTag Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    The difference is Holy Bolt is used 30-75.

    Edit: those are all the high end ammo types, which is why they were used.

    Overwatch: TomFoolery#1388
    Black Desert: Family Name: Foolery. Characters: Tome & Beerserk.
    (Retired) GW2 Characters (Fort Aspenwood): Roy Gee Biv
    (Retired) Let's Play: Lone Wolf
  • EdwinOfThayEdwinOfThay Registered User
    edited June 2010
    Moral of the story: don't level ranger if you can't afford it.

  • Just_Bri_ThanksJust_Bri_Thanks Seething with rage from a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2010
    About to go fight Dark Spark.

    Edit: My Macro finger slipped.

    oops.jpg

    Some days I just want to smack people with a rolled up newspaper. Or a phone book.
    A folding chair is looking like an attractive option right now too...
  • Just_Bri_ThanksJust_Bri_Thanks Seething with rage from a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2010
    Dark Spark dead, GK II complete.

    Some days I just want to smack people with a rolled up newspaper. Or a phone book.
    A folding chair is looking like an attractive option right now too...
  • KiTAKiTA Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    So I hit 75 and more or less quit playing the game, partially cause I started college summer courses literally the day after that. My IRL friends that were playing also quit, the diiiiicks.

    Apparently I should be working on Dragoon and/or that L75 evolving Great Katana, as apparently it will be used in the expansion.

    time to crash, the dawn is up, the sun gleems out glorious ps4 sunbeams and i can trade those sunbeams and do whatever i want with them.
  • TagTag Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    If you want a real goal KiTA shoot for Soboro or baring that, Hagun.

    The Trials G.Katana may eventually out do them, but their bonuses are exceptionally strong. They would have to outdo getting ~90% more WSs or getting a constant +100TP on each WS respectively.

    Dragoon is a really good sub to have too, but only once you have a lot of other haste gear too. The jumps and bonus acc aren't good enough without the /drg haste gear.

    Edit: Additionally you can work on collecting enough storeTP for a 5 hit build.

    Overwatch: TomFoolery#1388
    Black Desert: Family Name: Foolery. Characters: Tome & Beerserk.
    (Retired) GW2 Characters (Fort Aspenwood): Roy Gee Biv
    (Retired) Let's Play: Lone Wolf
  • TagTag Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Hehehe M.Kris is so fun. On it's own it is a flurry of attacks, but I paired it with /war + Fighter's Roll for S&G and it is just hilarity.

    Overwatch: TomFoolery#1388
    Black Desert: Family Name: Foolery. Characters: Tome & Beerserk.
    (Retired) GW2 Characters (Fort Aspenwood): Roy Gee Biv
    (Retired) Let's Play: Lone Wolf
  • Just_Bri_ThanksJust_Bri_Thanks Seething with rage from a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2010
    This first half of the week just kills me. So tired.

    Worth every second.

    Some days I just want to smack people with a rolled up newspaper. Or a phone book.
    A folding chair is looking like an attractive option right now too...
  • Just_Bri_ThanksJust_Bri_Thanks Seething with rage from a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2010
    I hate PL parties so much.

    Invited to a party in Qufim. I have my search comment up saying no PL parties. I show up and lo and behold; a high level paladin. I pray he is going to sync down, but no; one of the scholars is dual boxing it.

    I say what the hell, I can bend once.

    The party has no tank, no provoke. I have to wait until people do enough damage to bounce agro or until the Paladin gets around to massive curing me.

    The fourth death was a wight that latched onto me due to yellow HP when I moved away from the crab I pulled so I could not gimp myself with the bow.

    "Hmm. Not really our fault on that one."

    Yeah. Sure it wasn't. Jackass.

    Some days I just want to smack people with a rolled up newspaper. Or a phone book.
    A folding chair is looking like an attractive option right now too...
  • legionofonelegionofone __BANNED USERS
    edited June 2010
    Fuck it, going to fire up my old RDM again.

    Any advice for crafting here? Other than obligatory "don't do it"? I wanted to learn blacksmithing (HUM in Windhurst) so I traveled to Bastok and I remember dying from a bee at level 14 when I was in the area outside of Bastok.

    Edit: This was over a year ago so yeah. But this thread made me want to get back into the swing of things.

    "They have shit," Krause said. "Rights my ass. 'Rights'. Nobody has any fucking rights unless they've got a machine gun."
  • Just_Bri_ThanksJust_Bri_Thanks Seething with rage from a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2010
    Go mining and smelt ores. That will get you some points to start with, and materials for later synths.

    Some days I just want to smack people with a rolled up newspaper. Or a phone book.
    A folding chair is looking like an attractive option right now too...
  • KiTAKiTA Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    I <3 PL parties. Anything to get me from L20 to L35 so I can move onto Colibri.

    time to crash, the dawn is up, the sun gleems out glorious ps4 sunbeams and i can trade those sunbeams and do whatever i want with them.
  • KiTAKiTA Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    http://www.playonline.com/pcd/topics/ff11us/detail/5561/detail.html

    - The "Dual Wield" job trait will become available to dancers at level 20, with the degree of mastery increasing in stages thereafter.

    ... Holy fuck. WAR/DNC at 40 will thus be able to dual wield, in addition to all the rest of the asskickery. Same with THF/DNC. That's fucking amazing.

    http://www.playonline.com/pcd/topics/ff11us/detail/5549/detail.html

    Walk of Echoes sounds just like campaign for L75+ characters. Will this be where we get L75+ gear, outside of paying 10-50 million gil for crafted stuff?

    time to crash, the dawn is up, the sun gleems out glorious ps4 sunbeams and i can trade those sunbeams and do whatever i want with them.
  • KiTAKiTA Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    I still can't buy the damned thing, btw. Can anyone? Is this a glitch on my end?

    time to crash, the dawn is up, the sun gleems out glorious ps4 sunbeams and i can trade those sunbeams and do whatever i want with them.
  • TagTag Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    KiTA wrote: »
    http://www.playonline.com/pcd/topics/ff11us/detail/5561/detail.html

    - The "Dual Wield" job trait will become available to dancers at level 20, with the degree of mastery increasing in stages thereafter.

    ... Holy fuck. WAR/DNC at 40 will thus be able to dual wield, in addition to all the rest of the asskickery. Same with THF/DNC. That's fucking amazing.

    That's pretty god damn amazing. DNC/MNK will be a pretty nice tank now if /counterstance doesn't get cut (since they can OH an M.Kris and pump out decent WS damage with a real dagger MH). Thf/Dnc and Blu/Dnc will be pretty incredible too.

    Any chance of a spoilered full text of the update for us poor working schmucks?

    Edit: lolwut, ffxicyclopedia is unblocked again.
    No level cap increase is complete without an accompanying arsenal of new job abilities, traits, and magic spells. Come the June version update, adventurers will find themselves empowered with myriad new ways to smite enemies and support comrades in battle. As the icing on this scrumptious cake of additions, performance-enhancing tweaks are also being whipped up for certain existing job abilities.

    File:Bullet.gif The following job abilities will be added:

    Restraint (WAR Lv.77 Ability Delay: 10 min. Effect Duration: 5 min.)
    Enhances your weapon skill power with each normal attack you land, but prevents you from dealing critical hits.

    Perfect Counter (MNK Lv.79 Ability Delay: 1 min. Effect Duration: 30 sec.)
    Allows you to counter the next attack directed at you.

    Mana Wall (BLM Lv.76 Ability Delay: 10 min. Effect Duration: 5 min.)
    Allows you to take damage with MP.

    Despoil (THF Lv.77 Ability delay: 5 min.)
    Steals items from an enemy while inflicting a status ailment upon it.

    Divine Emblem (PLD Lv.78 Ability Delay: 10 min. Effect Duration: 1 min.)
    Enhances the accuracy of your next divine magic spell and increases enmity.

    Nether Void (DRK Lv.78 Ability Delay: 5 min. Effect Duration: 1 min.)
    Increases the absorption of your next dark magic spell.

    Double Shot (RNG Lv.79 Ability Delay: 3 min. Effect Duration: 90 sec.)
    Occasionally uses two units of ammunition to deal double damage.

    Sengikori (SAM Lv.77 Ability Delay: 3 min. Effect Duration: 1 min.)
    Grants a bonus to skillchains and magic bursts initiated by your next weapon skill.

    Futae (NIN Lv.77 Ability Delay: 3 min. Effect Duration: 1 min.)
    Grants a bonus to your next elemental ninjutsu by expending two ninja tools.

    Spirit Jump (DRG Lv.77 Ability Delay: 90 sec.)
    Delivers a short jumping attack on a targeted enemy which suppresses enmity. Effect enhanced when wyvern is present.

    Blood Pact: Rage "Holy Mist" (SMN Lv.76)
    Deals light elemental damage to an enemy.

    Blood Pact: Rage "Lunar Bay" (SMN Lv.78)
    Deals darkness damage to an enemy.

    Blood Pact: Rage "Night Terror" (SMN Lv.80)
    Deals darkness damage to an enemy.

    Bolter's Roll (COR Lv.76)
    Increases movement speed for party members within area of effect.

    Caster's Roll (COR Lv.79)
    Enhances "Fast Cast" effect for party members within area of effect.

    Tactical Switch (PUP Lv.79 Ability Delay: 3 min.)
    Swaps TP of master and automaton.

    Presto (DNC Lv.77 Ability Delay: 15 sec. Effect Duration: 30 sec.)
    Enhances the effect of your next step and grants you an additional finishing move.

    Divine Waltz II (DNC Lv.78 Ability Delay: 20 sec.)
    Restores the HP of all party members within a small radius.

    Climactic Flourish (DNC Lv.80 Ability Delay: 90 sec.)
    Allows you to deal critical hits. Requires at least one finishing move.

    Libra (SCH Lv.76 Ability Delay: 1 min.)
    Examines the target's enmity level.



    File:Bullet.gif The following adjustments will be made to existing job abilities:

    - Beastmasters will be able to invoke the aid of six new creatures via the "Call Beast" ability by using the following items:
    Cunning Brain Broth / Lucky Carrot Broth / Deepbed Soil / Wool Grease / Vermihumus / Dancing Herbal Broth

    - The level requirement for the samurai ability "Sekkanoki" will be reduced from 60 to 40.
    - When dragoons use the "Spirit Link" ability, half of their wyvern's TP will be transferred to them.
    - If a corsair's "Double-Up" ability produces a total of XI, the roll's effect duration will be extended by 10 minutes.
    - Dancers will be able to perform the ability "Cure Wallz" on non-party members.
    - The "Dual Wield" job trait will become available to dancers at level 20, with the degree of mastery increasing in stages thereafter.

    File:Bullet.gif Support jobs will be subject to the following ability restrictions:

    - The white mage abilities "Afflatus Misery" and "Afflatus Solace" will be unavailable.
    - The ranger ability "Shadowbind" will receive a penalty to accuracy.
    - The ninja abilities "Innin" and "Yonin" will be unavailable.
    - The scholar abilities "Accession" or "Manifestation" will triple rather than double the recast time for associated spells.

    File:Bullet.gif The following job traits will be added:
    *The jobs column indicates the level at which the trait will first be learned. The degree of mastery will increase in stages thereafter.


    Trait
    Jobs
    Effect
    Critical Attack Bonus
    WAR Lv.78
    THF Lv.78
    DNC Lv.80
    Improves power of critical hits.
    Critical Defense Bonus
    PLD Lv.79
    BRD Lv.80
    Improves defense against critical hits.
    Tactical Parry
    NIN Lv.77
    DNC Lv.77
    Grants bonus TP when parrying an attack.
    Tactical Guard
    MNK Lv.77
    PUP Lv.80
    Grants bonus TP when guarding against an attack.
    Shield Defense Bonus
    WAR Lv.80
    PLD Lv.77
    Reduces damage taken when blocking an attack with a shield.
    Stout Servant
    BST Lv.78
    PUP Lv.78
    Reduces damage taken by pet.
    True Shot
    RNG Lv.78
    Grants a damage bonus to ranged attacks performed at an appropriate distance.
    Blood Boon
    SMN Lv.60
    Occasionally cuts down MP cost of Blood Pact abilities. Does not affect abilities that require Astral Flow.
    Skillchain Bonus
    SAM Lv.78
    DNC Lv.45
    Improves skillchain damage.
    Fencer
    WAR Lv.45
    BST Lv.80
    Increases rate of critical hits when wielding with the main hand only. Grants a TP bonus to weapon skills.
    Conserve TP
    RNG Lv.80
    DRG Lv.45
    DNC Lv.77
    Occasionally cuts down TP cost of weapon skills.
    Occult Acumen
    DRK Lv.45
    SCH Lv.78
    Grants bonus TP when dealing damage with elemental or dark magic.
    Magic Burst Bonus
    BLM Lv.45
    NIN Lv.80
    SCH Lv.79
    Improves magic burst damage.
    Divine Benison
    WHM Lv.50
    Quickens spellcasting for status ailment recovery magic. Grants a bonus to enmity reduction
    Resist Amnesia
    BST Lv.15
    COR Lv.30
    PUP Lv.15
    Gives you a slight resistance against amnesia.

    File:Bullet.gif The following magic spells will be added:

    - White Magic
    Cure VI: WHM Lv.80
    Protect V: WHM Lv.76 / RDM Lv. 77 / SCH Lv.80
    Shell V: WHM Lv.76
    Baramnesia: RDM Lv.78
    Baramnesra: WHM Lv.78

    - Black Magic
    Stone V: BLM Lv.77 / SCH Lv.79 (Addendum: Black)
    Water V: BLM Lv.80
    Aspir II: DRK Lv.78

    - Songs
    Foe Requiem VII: BRD Lv.76
    Army's Paeon VI: BRD Lv.78
    Knight's Minne V: BRD Lv.80

    - Ninjutsu
    Aisha: Ichi: NIN Lv.78

    * Uses the ninja tool "Soshi".


    File:Bullet.gif More jobs will be able to learn the following spells:

    - White Magic
    Shell IV: PLD Lv.80
    Phalanx: PLD Lv.77
    Regen II: RDM Lv.76

    - Black Magic
    Stone III: DRK Lv.76
    Stone IV: RDM Lv.77
    Water III: DRK Lv.80
    Water IV: RDM Lv.80

    File:Bullet.gif Several new blue magic spells will be added.

    Overwatch: TomFoolery#1388
    Black Desert: Family Name: Foolery. Characters: Tome & Beerserk.
    (Retired) GW2 Characters (Fort Aspenwood): Roy Gee Biv
    (Retired) Let's Play: Lone Wolf
  • TagTag Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    So having looked at the post, my own jobs sort of got decent but not super bonuses. 15 minute XIs would be nice on rolls except... they'll be overwritten on the COR itself (also a pain to keep track of barring a very clever spellcast update). The two new rolls look like gimicks, though a 5 minute movement buff will be at least convenient in town. If you can attack with it on though... that could be interesting. PUP doesn't get much but I guess that was sort of expected seeing as how it just got an update; I assume it will continue to get spells and such as it levels up. Honestly the biggest update I want for PUP is just native support to see pet TP and MP without having to use a command or open the equipment menu ;P

    Dancer and /dancer really seems to be getting the most out of this, which, to be fair, was probably needed. I still think they need a native regain trait (even if it only works out of combat or while resting) so they can at least start with full TP for curing, as well as a unlinked waltz timers. Other than allowing raid healing, they really seem to be focusing on DNC as DPS or Tanking rather than healing / support (Divine Waltz 2 will be nice though).

    The power of the added added traits will be really important. Drks could be getting some nice stuff from them, and I'm hoping the various boosts to MBing will be enough to bring it back into play (doubtful).

    One thing that stands out is that their previous ideas of where they want the jobs to go from a few months back are basically ignored here. Nothing about using timing to alter the battle flow for mnks, no new hate management tricks for thfs, no damage boosts for Cor, no pulling tools for brd, no new native tier of elemental ninjitsu for ninja, no recovery tools for whm, etc.

    Overwatch: TomFoolery#1388
    Black Desert: Family Name: Foolery. Characters: Tome & Beerserk.
    (Retired) GW2 Characters (Fort Aspenwood): Roy Gee Biv
    (Retired) Let's Play: Lone Wolf
  • seabassseabass Doctor MassachusettsRegistered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Well damn. I mean, really, what I want as a black mage is survivability. That is totally the reason I picked the job with the lowest hp on the race with the lowest hp, so that I could stand up while taking damage. At least the magic burst bonuses might bring some finesse back to things. Getting a couple new nukes isn't too bad either, but really, just tier V elementals versus something interesting? Meh.

    I guess it could have been worse, they could have given us new high level weapon skills.

    Run you pigeons, it's Robert Frost!
  • TagTag Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Well they said they wanted the mages to be a bit more suicidal so I guess this gives some breathing space 50% of the time without having to sub NIN. Meteor is presumably being saved for 90 or 99. Honestly if they do manage to bring back MBs, they and convert might bring BLMs back into parties.

    Overwatch: TomFoolery#1388
    Black Desert: Family Name: Foolery. Characters: Tome & Beerserk.
    (Retired) GW2 Characters (Fort Aspenwood): Roy Gee Biv
    (Retired) Let's Play: Lone Wolf
  • WillisIVIIXWillisIVIIX Registered User
    edited June 2010
    Spoiling my post for the huge,
    seabass wrote: »
    Well damn. I mean, really, what I want as a black mage is survivability. That is totally the reason I picked the job with the lowest hp on the race with the lowest hp, so that I could stand up while taking damage. At least the magic burst bonuses might bring some finesse back to things. Getting a couple new nukes isn't too bad either, but really, just tier V elementals versus something interesting? Meh.

    I guess it could have been worse, they could have given us new high level weapon skills.

    Your getting a mana shield now, it all depends on how much your absorbing and based on the 5 min duration I'm sure it'll be a reverse convert, you'll absorb up to a %age of your max mp. It could be huge, BLM/RDM, convert and mana wall could lead to some serious, and I mean serious longevity. I'm questioning why they didn't give you guys Occult Acumen, I guess we still have 18 levels left to go, but aside from the staff swapping of elemental staves there could be some hope on the horizon to fix that, we can all agree that elemental staves have had their time in the light long enough right? Claustrum might not be a joke anymore.... nah who am I kidding.
    Tag wrote: »
    So having looked at the post, my own jobs sort of got decent but not super bonuses. 15 minute XIs would be nice on rolls except... they'll be overwritten on the COR itself (also a pain to keep track of barring a very clever spellcast update). The two new rolls look like gimicks, though a 5 minute movement buff will be at least convenient in town. If you can attack with it on though... that could be interesting. PUP doesn't get much but I guess that was sort of expected seeing as how it just got an update; I assume it will continue to get spells and such as it levels up. Honestly the biggest update I want for PUP is just native support to see pet TP and MP without having to use a command or open the equipment menu ;P

    I thought PUPs update looked pretty decent, adding in some tricks to the automaton, though I'm sure all pet jobs would love a UI update for TP/MP and such, PS2 limitations lololol. I agree we'll have to wait and see about the COR rolls, especially how XIs will work, that would suck for those COR/WHMs that get a XI Evoker's Roll and have to buff up the DDs, but that's what would have to happen due to how double up works. I don't know, looking at it, it seems like it would make COR rotating rolls more of a pain in XP situations, more of a bonus to endgame I guess. I doubt the movement speed buff will stay up on contact, seems SE is trying to move away from kiting and have been for a while.
    Tag wrote: »
    The power of the added added traits will be really important. Drks could be getting some nice stuff from them, and I'm hoping the various boosts to MBing will be enough to bring it back into play (doubtful).

    I don't know, well we don't know. These moves to enhancing SC/MB could be measures SE is using to bring them back into focus, and may be the only efficient way to handle endgame with Abyssea, I doubt it but it could be a possibility, look at the seemingly elemental WSes their adding.
    Tag wrote: »
    One thing that stands out is that their previous ideas of where they want the jobs to go from a few months back are basically ignored here. Nothing about using timing to alter the battle flow for mnks, no new hate management tricks for thfs, no damage boosts for Cor, no pulling tools for brd, no new native tier of elemental ninjitsu for ninja, no recovery tools for whm, etc.

    I think their still working out the kinks on half of that stuff. Some of it seemed really ballsy and given the fact they've shared to us just how big the game's dev staff has shrunk to, it is a big task to roll out. 95-99 stuff that'll break the game? Maybe. I'm just looking toward low manning salvage, just as long as they don't put a level cap in.
    Tag wrote: »
    Dancer and /dancer really seems to be getting the most out of this, which, to be fair, was probably needed. I still think they need a native regain trait (even if it only works out of combat or while resting) so they can at least start with full TP for curing, as well as a unlinked waltz timers. Other than allowing raid healing, they really seem to be focusing on DNC as DPS or Tanking rather than healing / support (Divine Waltz 2 will be nice though).

    Native regain would really only be useful at the start of an encounter as you said, but now with Presto and reverse flourish merits TP isn't a problem, DNC will never main heal and that's fine. Unlinked Waltz timers would be the next natural step, at least unlink the AoE and single targets. Healing and Curing sharing still makes sense to me. Well we still need to provide DD and support to be at max effectiveness since TP is our main resource. People will still complain that we feed mobs too much TP and will only be selected for certain situations. To counter that we need our DPS increased, and our only support were sambas and steps anyways, besides increasing Drain/Aspir samba I don't expect any other sambas 81-99, and increasing steps at this point is unnecessary.

    Now, realistically other mains are going to benefit from DNC getting dual wield than we will. After taking some time to look over other sub options for DNC, nothing popped more than NIN. BLUs and THFs are going to droll over this if they aren't worried about shadows. Besides maybe /SAM for Sekka, nothing else really matters for DNC. Any mage jobs are just retarded and I'm sure someone out there will try and justify it with numbers but I'll always stand behind any job without inherent mp should not sub a mage, barring BRDs just because their BRDs. /WAR can be trumped by Saber Dance, and Berserk isn't that great of an increase over all. /DRG only good for jumps but the DD increase is minimal and as I said, TP isn't going to be an issue after Presto and some merits. So what's left? Everything else is a joke to sub and going DNC/SAM seems redundant since Hasso/Seigan won't apply, if only Innin and Yonin weren't exclusive then DNC/NIN with Fan Dance and Yonin would be a worthwhile tank, if a little broken.

    Reverse Flourish is going to trump Climatic Flourish if their tied in the same flourish tier. Unless SE is going to give more, then Flourish III will be justified. I guess Climatic Flourish is useful if you have steps and TP to burn. That is if everyone is speculating what is does correctly. Presto is yet again kind of redundant as it's cooldown is the same as Steps are, it might as well be a job trait as DNCs already have enough macros to hit. The biggest thing I can steal from this is Waltzing outside of party. If Campaign can still shape up to be a worthwhile leveling option after 75, then I'm going to be cure blasting people in the face for free XP.

    The update is shaping up to be a great overall boost to the game, I have no idea exactly how Walk of Echoes is really going to work. I hope some of these Fencing Traits and Parry/Guard traits mean we'll see an improvement to these skills at some point during these updates. The Shield update was a huge save to PLDs, so if their pushing for other jobs to tank, at least in a leveling function, then giving this traits is meaningless if skilling them up and their application is still lack luster to the other options, shadows being the top dog. Hopefully they'll squeeze one more update note tomorrow before we stand around waiting for the epicness of Monday. I know I'm going into the CoP missions hard and I don't intend to stop until I feel the back of their teeth, and I'm going to get my Rapparee Harness.

  • TagTag Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    @Willis re: PUPs
    PUPs only got 4 listed things.

    The first two are pretty neutral. Tactical Guard and Stout Servant. I guess in solo TG might be ok, but guard is the worst defensive and the hardest to skillup and pup has a relatively low rank; the tp awarded would have to be pretty massive to be excited for it. Stout Servant, well, this will be about the 10th time they try to buff pet survivability, so call me a pessimist.

    Resist Amnesia will be welcome, if bland.

    The last thing is Tactical Switch, which seems really really situational. The best use would seem to me to be throwing TP at your auto so that it can get 2 WSs off under optimal maneuvers, but seeing as how those maneuvers would get removed and/or require a specific WS before it to force a good WS out of the puppet, that wouldn't work too well. Alternatively you could force the auto to build up TP and then siphon it for yourself to self chain. I guess that would work ok with the mage auto, but the other two have stronger weapon skills than the master.

    That said, as long as the auto keeps getting spells like normal, I don't think they need much more than a better UI and player perception.

    Edit: Hey at least it's not bard's "diddlysquat."

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  • Just_Bri_ThanksJust_Bri_Thanks Seething with rage from a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2010
    What do you feel that Bards should have gotten in the update?

    Some days I just want to smack people with a rolled up newspaper. Or a phone book.
    A folding chair is looking like an attractive option right now too...
  • TagTag Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    What do you feel that Bards should have gotten in the update?

    They said they were giving them pulling tools, so that's up to SE. Hell they could have gotten a utility "Ghostly Hymn" to give sneak / invis and it would have been better than what they got.

    Things that would have been worthwhile though:
    A new tier to even one of their useful songs
    A survivability ja or song that would allow them to more easily go something other than /nin and still pull well
    A gravity type song to help pull from a distance / give an alternative to gravity kiting
    A dark based sleep song
    Hell, any new song
    or some song or ability that would give them something worthwhile to do when *not* pulling.

    Overwatch: TomFoolery#1388
    Black Desert: Family Name: Foolery. Characters: Tome & Beerserk.
    (Retired) GW2 Characters (Fort Aspenwood): Roy Gee Biv
    (Retired) Let's Play: Lone Wolf
  • WillisIVIIXWillisIVIIX Registered User
    edited June 2010
    Tag wrote: »
    @Willis re: PUPs
    PUPs only got 4 listed things.

    The first two are pretty neutral. Tactical Guard and Stout Servant. I guess in solo TG might be ok, but guard is the worst defensive and the hardest to skillup and pup has a relatively low rank; the tp awarded would have to be pretty massive to be excited for it. Stout Servant, well, this will be about the 10th time they try to buff pet survivability, so call me a pessimist.

    Resist Amnesia will be welcome, if bland.

    The last thing is Tactical Switch, which seems really really situational. The best use would seem to me to be throwing TP at your auto so that it can get 2 WSs off under optimal maneuvers, but seeing as how those maneuvers would get removed and/or require a specific WS before it to force a good WS out of the puppet, that wouldn't work too well. Alternatively you could force the auto to build up TP and then siphon it for yourself to self chain. I guess that would work ok with the mage auto, but the other two have stronger weapon skills than the master.

    That said, as long as the auto keeps getting spells like normal, I don't think they need much more than a better UI and player perception.

    Edit: Hey at least it's not bard's "diddlysquat."

    If SE can pull through with the "Make Automatons tank better", plan I think you still have something on the table to be happy about. We can't expect any UI updates, I'm sure deep down they feel it's good enough with chat macros to get what you want.

    I can't really see BRD get anything worth a crap from now until closure. Maybe some dual stances happening like jobs have gotten the last couple updates? But you can't really buff something they can't do like DPS, or heal. It's just a job that's too good at what it does because it's so specific. Oh and it's only going to get worse with higher /RDM levels, more fast cast = more standing around, or becoming the pinnacle of support with refresh and convert with the massively lower singing times. Actually I'd be ok with that, I hate pulling with Elegy/Lullaby, it's weak.

  • TagTag Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    @Willis Puppets will never even small group tank until they can be healed. Also there isn't even chat support for pet mp, you have to go into the equipment menu by hand to check it; <petmp> would be such a massive improvement.

    You aren't really being creative enough with bard. They don't have to be meleers, but there are utility or magic roles they could fill. Just giving them access to -na songs would be a boon.

    Overwatch: TomFoolery#1388
    Black Desert: Family Name: Foolery. Characters: Tome & Beerserk.
    (Retired) GW2 Characters (Fort Aspenwood): Roy Gee Biv
    (Retired) Let's Play: Lone Wolf
  • chocoboliciouschocobolicious Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Re: pup.

    As an early adopter of the class and using it as a main for so long... if the automaton is seriously out damaging me I am doing something wrong. Especially after the h2h update, I was able to switch out a lot of acc+ stuff for att buffs. If I'm not breaking the 900dmg level per SP then I must have sch subbed and sporting my goliard, because that'd be weak.

    Still, depending on recast time for it I can see myself abusing the hell out of it. Coiler abuse is go~

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  • TagTag Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Well maybe it changes at peak gear, but my auto out damages me pretty nicely at 68. Overall anyway, I use the haste and double attack attachments so it goes much faster than I do too, so I wouldn't be surprised if the WSs ended up weaker on a 1-to-1 basis.

    But, if you're stealing 100TP from your auto, you're exchanging one of it's WS for one of your own, so every 3 minutes you get to make that difference in damage, assuming everything lines up (and how often does that happen). If your weaponskills are hitting for 900 and your automation is half that, that's a whopping... 2.5dps increase. Optimally.

    Overwatch: TomFoolery#1388
    Black Desert: Family Name: Foolery. Characters: Tome & Beerserk.
    (Retired) GW2 Characters (Fort Aspenwood): Roy Gee Biv
    (Retired) Let's Play: Lone Wolf
  • chocoboliciouschocobolicious Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Pup damage changes massively once you gain access to stringing pummel at 75. You should probably see an increase of at least 60% in your output before optimal gear. It really is that big of a difference.

    Also, mage pup ws are worthless so exchanging it is fine, and its the most common auto to havee out for just about everything. Ap I probably wouldn't trade out, but cb/bc would be a tossup as to whether I saw the auto doing enough.

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  • WillisIVIIXWillisIVIIX Registered User
    edited June 2010
    I was just playing devil's advocate with the pup updates, mine is still level 2 so I haven't a clue what's going on with them >.> although I see the issue with pet mp display. I'd figure the windower boys would come up with a plugin sooner than SE would bother time with a UI update.

    Yea I hadn't considered -na songs, going through the list of what they have, that's probably the only thing they don't, sans songs like stoneskin/shadows etc but I'm not sure how that'd fit into the current song system. The bitching from Summoners would be epic though if that did happen. I think the job just does what we want and need it to do perhaps a little too well. Sure it's survivability could go up but that'd probably be by a JT or JA and that's only in XP parties, no need to make their spell book go up anymore with situational songs, lol but I guess they did that anyways. OP job is OP is basically my stance, it just so happens to be one of the unsung ones that doesn't give the player a whole lot to reach for, which was always my problem with it.

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