S
The Elite is a nice system, and an absolute upgrade for people who watch a lot of movies (as it upscales Standard DVDs over HDMI), or just plain want a digital picture output for their swank HDTV.
Stop spreading FUD. HDMI is not any better than component. It's just a dvi cable with integrated audio and DRM.
No, HDMI is WORLDS better than component on the 360.
What you are thinking of is DVI. HDMI is not any better than DVI when it comes to picture quality; both are digital, both output the exact same 1s and 0s to the display device... DVI can't carry the DRM token you are talking about for both video and audio, wheras HDMI can.
Also, if you have an HDTV that has DVI/HDMI, but no VGA input, this is the only way to use the 360 as an upscaling DVD player.
What you have said is exactly the same as saying that there is no visual difference between VGA and DVI for your computer; we all know THAT is bunk, so why is upgrading from an analog video signal to a digital one on the console any different?
You're repeating the HDMI sales pitch as if it were true, when anyone who has ever seen HDMI and Component side by side will tell you that the difference is so negligible, that it's not even noticeable. Take this from someone who has both HDMI and component devices. And you can't argue that the audio will be better, as Microsoft chose to use a version of HDMI incapable of playing Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby True HD, or DTS-HD Master Audio.
Don't believe me? Engadget's comparison review another link Oh hey another link
So like I said, stop spreading FUD.
HDMI is straight up anti-consumer.
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syndalisGetting ClassyOn the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Productsregular
S
The Elite is a nice system, and an absolute upgrade for people who watch a lot of movies (as it upscales Standard DVDs over HDMI), or just plain want a digital picture output for their swank HDTV.
Stop spreading FUD. HDMI is not any better than component. It's just a dvi cable with integrated audio and DRM.
No, HDMI is WORLDS better than component on the 360.
What you are thinking of is DVI. HDMI is not any better than DVI when it comes to picture quality; both are digital, both output the exact same 1s and 0s to the display device... DVI can't carry the DRM token you are talking about for both video and audio, wheras HDMI can.
Also, if you have an HDTV that has DVI/HDMI, but no VGA input, this is the only way to use the 360 as an upscaling DVD player.
What you have said is exactly the same as saying that there is no visual difference between VGA and DVI for your computer; we all know THAT is bunk, so why is upgrading from an analog video signal to a digital one on the console any different?
You're repeating the HDMI sales pitch as if it were true, when anyone who has ever seen HDMI and Component side by side will tell you that the difference is so negligible, that it's not even noticeable. Take this from someone who has both HDMI and component devices. And you can't argue that the audio will be better, as Microsoft chose to use a version of HDMI incapable of playing Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby True HD, or DTS-HD Master Audio.
Don't believe me? Engadget's comparison review another link Oh hey another link
So like I said, stop spreading FUD.
HDMI is straight up anti-consumer.
No I am not.
I am saying that DVI, which isn't HDMI, is just as good from a picture standpoint. And because my set doesn't have a VGA port, this unit was the only way I could utilize the 360's upscaling for DVDs.
I can also tell you that I see a noticeable difference in in the systems, for my gear. My TV is larger than the one the folks at Engadget used, and a wider color range with deeper and more well defined blacks (which you first link from Engadget clearly said it helped with) makes a big difference for me, especially on the HD-DVD front. If I hooked this console up and got no noticeable improvement, I would have just returned it, got a 120 GB hard drive, and a memory card so I could retransfer all my shit back to the old system, where all my XBLA titles work. This isn't a case of Emperor's New Clothes; I am generally pissed at the Elite right now because of the licensing issues, but the very reason I am going through all this bullshit is because I see a very nice jump in the picture quality.
You can say whatever you want to say, but for ME personally, the image quality jump was significant.
syndalis on
SW-4158-3990-6116
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
I found a workaround for my wife to still be able to play her arcade games and Oblivion content:
For my wife to play any of the arcade games on the Elite, we have to perform the following maneuvers:
1)Start up system (set to automatically sign in my profile)
2)Grab second controller
3)Turn on second controller
4)Sign into her profile
5)Turn off first controller
6)Now, with both profiles signed in, she cannot see any of her data, since the dash displays only the first profile to sign in. Her Friends' Leaderboards, gamercards and achievements cannot be displayed unless my profile is signed out.
7)But she can start up the arcade game of her choice and play it.
She's is pretty well pissed off about all of this, and just said that if she has to deal with this circus, she's just going to stop playing the box.
Personally I've found HDMI to provide a more crisp image with more accurate colour on my Hitachi plasma. I've connected my HD-A2 and my PS3 via both component and HDMI and calibrated them with my HT essentials disks and I get better results via HDMI.
I was an early adopter of DVD, HD-DVD and Blu-ray and I've been doing this home theatre thing since I was in high school; I think I'm fairly well informed.
DLC being nontransferable seems to make perfect sense to me. I don't understand the complaint.
But what is with this nonsense about save games being affected?
Some DLC is tied to a specific game, like the Oblivion horse armor, etc. If you save after buying this stuff, that save file is now tied to that DLC. Then you can't use the save anymore if you're not the profile that "owns" the DLC.
DLC being nontransferable seems to make perfect sense to me. I don't understand the complaint.
But what is with this nonsense about save games being affected?
Some DLC is tied to a specific game, like the Oblivion horse armor, etc. If you save after buying this stuff, that save file is now tied to that DLC. Then you can't use the save anymore if you're not the profile that "owns" the DLC.
That is really obvious now that you point it out. I was dumb. Sorry.
The more I think about paying Microsoft another $200 for my Xbox to be fixed, the more I think about just checking out of this generation and waiting until they stop doing stupid things like tying downloaded expansion packs to a persons account.
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
edited April 2007
Thing is they're not going to stop doing it. Because if they did people would just pirate the games(and believe me they will). So unless they invent some kind of new technology to work around it, I wouldn't hold my breath.
The honest pay for the problems caused by the dishonest, as truth today as it was back then. (please excuse my bad attempt at being insightful)
Personally I've found HDMI to provide a more crisp image with more accurate colour on my Hitachi plasma. I've connected my HD-A2 and my PS3 via both component and HDMI and calibrated them with my HT essentials disks and I get better results via HDMI.
I was an early adopter of DVD, HD-DVD and Blu-ray and I've been doing this home theatre thing since I was in high school; I think I'm fairly well informed.
Indeed. Ultimately both signals have to be interpreted and displayed on the screen. Shame that some image processing on some TVs don't handle analog signals as well as they do digital.
Authorize/De-authorize for content much like iTunes could fix this. It's already been invented, it has been implemented and it works. Hell, even verify my credit card number over the phone if you have to, but don't hold my damn content hostage.
Thing is they're not going to stop doing it. Because if they did people would just pirate the games(and believe me they will). So unless they invent some kind of new technology to work around it, I wouldn't hold my breath.
The honest pay for the problems caused by the dishonest, as truth today as it was back then. (please excuse my bad attempt at being insightful)
As long as consumers are completely submissive, they won't stop. Outcries, even minimal ones, at least have the potential to change that. Look at what happened to Starforce.
Thing is they're not going to stop doing it. Because if they did people would just pirate the games(and believe me they will). So unless they invent some kind of new technology to work around it, I wouldn't hold my breath.
The honest pay for the problems caused by the dishonest, as truth today as it was back then. (please excuse my bad attempt at being insightful)
As long as consumers are completely submissive, they won't stop. Outcries, even minimal ones, at least have the potential to change that. Look at what happened to Starforce.
Thing is they're not going to stop doing it. Because if they did people would just pirate the games(and believe me they will). So unless they invent some kind of new technology to work around it, I wouldn't hold my breath.
The honest pay for the problems caused by the dishonest, as truth today as it was back then. (please excuse my bad attempt at being insightful)
Major Nelson and E just discussed this whole issue on the podcast for this week and they said clearly a fix is coming. They did not say when but they are going to change it but it will be fixed.
As it stands right now it sucks hard though. They should not have released the Elite without some fix for this.
I actually run a DVI to HDMI cable from my desktop to my TV. In the past I lugged the thing into the room and hooked it up with VGA. I don't recall noticing any difference when playing games...though that could have more to do with the games I played on it in the past.
So, say if I buy a new machine in a couple of years (all machines die eventually, and I might just fancy a new / improved, price-reduced bundled unit by that time, rather than sending my old box off in a coffin) what exactly is the situation here, I'm going to have to be online to use all DLC, DLC-affected game saves and Live Arcade games?
Because that is total bullshit.
With a bit of luck, Microsoft will fix this in the May update. Seriously, they better had, or I'm worried about what grief I'll get with that future purchase (might as well face up to the fact that one day it is going to happen, optical media based units rarely last forever.)
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The_SpaniardIt's never lupinesIrvine, CaliforniaRegistered Userregular
edited April 2007
I'm going to buy the Elite later today and trade in my system. The clerk said they'll transfer the content right then and there for me. I'll just pretend like this is all news to me and call up MS politely requesting that they refund me the points for all the content I bought so that I can just redownload it.
This thread made me realize that ever since I got my DVI-to-HDMI cable for my laptop, I haven't used it to play DVD's. I've just still been using my 360 with component. Thanks G&T!
Forgive me if this has already been answered, but if my current 360 goes tits up and I buy a Core to replace it (give the Core the old HDD), will I still be able to access all of my DLC offline? It wasn't clear to me if the stuff was tied to the console or to the HDD (especially in a situation like with the Elite where you're changing both).
Pretty good idea when they know it might not sell well now, but come xmas they can do an over-all price cut on the thing. Maybe $100 bucks so they can say its "under" $400 as to make it look more attractive.
That and they can get the Elite on the shelves for the die hards and start to stock up for there holiday/price cut plowouts. Seeing a machine thats only $375 that was $475 only a few months before would be a good marketing strat.
Pretty shitty for the early adopters though.
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The_SpaniardIt's never lupinesIrvine, CaliforniaRegistered Userregular
edited May 2007
Fuck HDMI looks awful as far as blacks are concerned. It's all checkerboardy and stuff.
Fuck HDMI looks awful as far as blacks are concerned. It's all checkerboardy and stuff.
Wha...? I think that's going to be more of a result of your television than HDMI itself. From my experience, HDMI makes blacks look blacker. Like... Sam Jackson or Wesley Snipes.
Forgive me if this has already been answered, but if my current 360 goes tits up and I buy a Core to replace it (give the Core the old HDD), will I still be able to access all of my DLC offline? It wasn't clear to me if the stuff was tied to the console or to the HDD (especially in a situation like with the Elite where you're changing both).
No. Different console = different MAC address, or however they tie content to the system. If you change the system, that content becomes online only.
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The_SpaniardIt's never lupinesIrvine, CaliforniaRegistered Userregular
Fuck HDMI looks awful as far as blacks are concerned. It's all checkerboardy and stuff.
Wha...? I think that's going to be more of a result of your television than HDMI itself. From my experience, HDMI makes blacks look blacker. Like... Sam Jackson or Wesley Snipes.
I have a brand new Samsung 46" HDTV, other details look a bit crisper but black looks like HELL!
Fuck HDMI looks awful as far as blacks are concerned. It's all checkerboardy and stuff.
Wha...? I think that's going to be more of a result of your television than HDMI itself. From my experience, HDMI makes blacks look blacker. Like... Sam Jackson or Wesley Snipes.
I have a brand new Samsung 46" HDTV, other details look a bit crisper but black looks like HELL!
Depends on what you're showing on it. Most times that checkerboard effect is from the video compression. Is it like that when feeding in anything uncompressed (i.e. a game)?
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ShadowfireVermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered Userregular
The call center supervisor said, after I mentioned that I would be calling M. Nelson, that he would LOVE to see a better answer for this, as his phones had been ringing off the fucking hook today with regard to this issue.
This really is the most important part of the thread, in my opinion. I realize they say a fix is coming, but it should have already been here. The thought that the elite was only for people who hadn't already bought a 360 is horseshit... they knew people would upgrade.
And to the folks talking piracy, always remember that DRM has never been about controlling piracy. It's about controlling consumers, and usage.
Fuck HDMI looks awful as far as blacks are concerned. It's all checkerboardy and stuff.
Wha...? I think that's going to be more of a result of your television than HDMI itself. From my experience, HDMI makes blacks look blacker. Like... Sam Jackson or Wesley Snipes.
I have a brand new Samsung 46" HDTV, other details look a bit crisper but black looks like HELL!
Depends on what you're showing on it. Most times that checkerboard effect is from the video compression. Is it like that when feeding in anything uncompressed (i.e. a game)?
Blacks looked great with the component cables and like crap with the HDMI. It may look better on a game, but there is no excuse for allowing the clips that looked perfect before to look like CRAP only in the blacks with HDMI.
Fuck HDMI looks awful as far as blacks are concerned. It's all checkerboardy and stuff.
Wha...? I think that's going to be more of a result of your television than HDMI itself. From my experience, HDMI makes blacks look blacker. Like... Sam Jackson or Wesley Snipes.
I have a brand new Samsung 46" HDTV, other details look a bit crisper but black looks like HELL!
Depends on what you're showing on it. Most times that checkerboard effect is from the video compression. Is it like that when feeding in anything uncompressed (i.e. a game)?
Blacks looked great with the component cables and like crap with the HDMI. It may look better on a game, but there is no excuse for allowing the clips that looked perfect before to look like CRAP only in the blacks with HDMI.
Perfect example as to how HDMI doesn't necessarily look better than component. Digital-to-digital conversion isn't always better than analogue-to-digital.
So I hear stories of people with broken 360's getting new ones, even replaced by stores (not warrenty back to MS) that have there points refunded so they can buy there games all over again.
Whats to stop someone ringing MS and *ahem* not mentioning they upgraded to an Elite, but rather *replaced* there old Xbox with a *new* one? Cough cough wink wink etc.
Fuck HDMI looks awful as far as blacks are concerned. It's all checkerboardy and stuff.
Wha...? I think that's going to be more of a result of your television than HDMI itself. From my experience, HDMI makes blacks look blacker. Like... Sam Jackson or Wesley Snipes.
I have a brand new Samsung 46" HDTV, other details look a bit crisper but black looks like HELL!
Depends on what you're showing on it. Most times that checkerboard effect is from the video compression. Is it like that when feeding in anything uncompressed (i.e. a game)?
Blacks looked great with the component cables and like crap with the HDMI. It may look better on a game, but there is no excuse for allowing the clips that looked perfect before to look like CRAP only in the blacks with HDMI.
Something to keep in mind if you recently switched from component to HDMI, is that your component input may hve been calibrated (you should if you haven't!), while your HDMI settings are factory standard if you haven't calibrated.
I realized my VGA input on my tv looked like shit versus component on my 360 till I realized I didn't calibrate the video settings on the new input. Now, it's all gravy.
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The_SpaniardIt's never lupinesIrvine, CaliforniaRegistered Userregular
Fuck HDMI looks awful as far as blacks are concerned. It's all checkerboardy and stuff.
Wha...? I think that's going to be more of a result of your television than HDMI itself. From my experience, HDMI makes blacks look blacker. Like... Sam Jackson or Wesley Snipes.
I have a brand new Samsung 46" HDTV, other details look a bit crisper but black looks like HELL!
Depends on what you're showing on it. Most times that checkerboard effect is from the video compression. Is it like that when feeding in anything uncompressed (i.e. a game)?
Blacks looked great with the component cables and like crap with the HDMI. It may look better on a game, but there is no excuse for allowing the clips that looked perfect before to look like CRAP only in the blacks with HDMI.
Something to keep in mind if you recently switched from component to HDMI, is that your component input may hve been calibrated (you should if you haven't!), while your HDMI settings are factory standard if you haven't calibrated.
I realized my VGA input on my tv looked like shit versus component on my 360 till I realized I didn't calibrate the video settings on the new input. Now, it's all gravy.
So I hear stories of people with broken 360's getting new ones, even replaced by stores (not warrenty back to MS) that have there points refunded so they can buy there games all over again.
Whats to stop someone ringing MS and *ahem* not mentioning they upgraded to an Elite, but rather *replaced* there old Xbox with a *new* one? Cough cough wink wink etc.
Posts
You're repeating the HDMI sales pitch as if it were true, when anyone who has ever seen HDMI and Component side by side will tell you that the difference is so negligible, that it's not even noticeable. Take this from someone who has both HDMI and component devices. And you can't argue that the audio will be better, as Microsoft chose to use a version of HDMI incapable of playing Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby True HD, or DTS-HD Master Audio.
Don't believe me?
Engadget's comparison review
another link
Oh hey another link
So like I said, stop spreading FUD.
HDMI is straight up anti-consumer.
I am saying that DVI, which isn't HDMI, is just as good from a picture standpoint. And because my set doesn't have a VGA port, this unit was the only way I could utilize the 360's upscaling for DVDs.
I can also tell you that I see a noticeable difference in in the systems, for my gear. My TV is larger than the one the folks at Engadget used, and a wider color range with deeper and more well defined blacks (which you first link from Engadget clearly said it helped with) makes a big difference for me, especially on the HD-DVD front. If I hooked this console up and got no noticeable improvement, I would have just returned it, got a 120 GB hard drive, and a memory card so I could retransfer all my shit back to the old system, where all my XBLA titles work. This isn't a case of Emperor's New Clothes; I am generally pissed at the Elite right now because of the licensing issues, but the very reason I am going through all this bullshit is because I see a very nice jump in the picture quality.
You can say whatever you want to say, but for ME personally, the image quality jump was significant.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
Sure, respected reviewers, and AV aficionados may disagree, but for you personally it was an improvement.
The ultimate cop out.
Also, your DRM woes suck, and you have my sympathies there. Fuck that noise.
Maybe he just has better equipment/eyesight than the reviewers.
Also, what the hell is wrong with you?!
Well, to be fair, isn't it highly dependent on both the cables and which tv/monitor you have.
But what is with this nonsense about save games being affected?
猿も木から落ちる
For my wife to play any of the arcade games on the Elite, we have to perform the following maneuvers:
1)Start up system (set to automatically sign in my profile)
2)Grab second controller
3)Turn on second controller
4)Sign into her profile
5)Turn off first controller
6)Now, with both profiles signed in, she cannot see any of her data, since the dash displays only the first profile to sign in. Her Friends' Leaderboards, gamercards and achievements cannot be displayed unless my profile is signed out.
7)But she can start up the arcade game of her choice and play it.
She's is pretty well pissed off about all of this, and just said that if she has to deal with this circus, she's just going to stop playing the box.
I was an early adopter of DVD, HD-DVD and Blu-ray and I've been doing this home theatre thing since I was in high school; I think I'm fairly well informed.
Some DLC is tied to a specific game, like the Oblivion horse armor, etc. If you save after buying this stuff, that save file is now tied to that DLC. Then you can't use the save anymore if you're not the profile that "owns" the DLC.
but you won't repay 5 or 10 bucks or whatever apiece to get back the games microsoft said you were going to lose by upgrading
That is really obvious now that you point it out. I was dumb. Sorry.
The more I think about paying Microsoft another $200 for my Xbox to be fixed, the more I think about just checking out of this generation and waiting until they stop doing stupid things like tying downloaded expansion packs to a persons account.
猿も木から落ちる
The honest pay for the problems caused by the dishonest, as truth today as it was back then. (please excuse my bad attempt at being insightful)
As long as consumers are completely submissive, they won't stop. Outcries, even minimal ones, at least have the potential to change that. Look at what happened to Starforce.
NintendoID: Nailbunny 3DS: 3909-8796-4685
Well, that's true.
Major Nelson and E just discussed this whole issue on the podcast for this week and they said clearly a fix is coming. They did not say when but they are going to change it but it will be fixed.
As it stands right now it sucks hard though. They should not have released the Elite without some fix for this.
Yes, though I think I got a 25ft one. Works great.
So, say if I buy a new machine in a couple of years (all machines die eventually, and I might just fancy a new / improved, price-reduced bundled unit by that time, rather than sending my old box off in a coffin) what exactly is the situation here, I'm going to have to be online to use all DLC, DLC-affected game saves and Live Arcade games?
Because that is total bullshit.
With a bit of luck, Microsoft will fix this in the May update. Seriously, they better had, or I'm worried about what grief I'll get with that future purchase (might as well face up to the fact that one day it is going to happen, optical media based units rarely last forever.)
That and they can get the Elite on the shelves for the die hards and start to stock up for there holiday/price cut plowouts. Seeing a machine thats only $375 that was $475 only a few months before would be a good marketing strat.
Pretty shitty for the early adopters though.
Wha...? I think that's going to be more of a result of your television than HDMI itself. From my experience, HDMI makes blacks look blacker. Like... Sam Jackson or Wesley Snipes.
No. Different console = different MAC address, or however they tie content to the system. If you change the system, that content becomes online only.
Depends on what you're showing on it. Most times that checkerboard effect is from the video compression. Is it like that when feeding in anything uncompressed (i.e. a game)?
This really is the most important part of the thread, in my opinion. I realize they say a fix is coming, but it should have already been here. The thought that the elite was only for people who hadn't already bought a 360 is horseshit... they knew people would upgrade.
And to the folks talking piracy, always remember that DRM has never been about controlling piracy. It's about controlling consumers, and usage.
Perfect example as to how HDMI doesn't necessarily look better than component. Digital-to-digital conversion isn't always better than analogue-to-digital.
Whats to stop someone ringing MS and *ahem* not mentioning they upgraded to an Elite, but rather *replaced* there old Xbox with a *new* one? Cough cough wink wink etc.
Something to keep in mind if you recently switched from component to HDMI, is that your component input may hve been calibrated (you should if you haven't!), while your HDMI settings are factory standard if you haven't calibrated.
I realized my VGA input on my tv looked like shit versus component on my 360 till I realized I didn't calibrate the video settings on the new input. Now, it's all gravy.
Serial numbers?