Vanilla Forums has been nominated for a second time in the CMS Critic "Critic's Choice" awards, and we need your vote! Read more here, and then do the thing (please).
Our new Indie Games subforum is now open for business in G&T. Go and check it out, you might land a code for a free game. If you're developing an indie game and want to post about it, follow these directions. If you don't, he'll break your legs! Hahaha! Seriously though.
Our rules have been updated and given their own forum. Go and look at them! They are nice, and there may be new ones that you didn't know about! Hooray for rules! Hooray for The System! Hooray for Conforming!

[Gulf Coast Oil Spill]It Ain't Over Yet

1343537394052

Posts

  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    MKR wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Is there going to be a bus line between our random sub-division and random-office-building-by-the-side-of-the-interstate? Between our sub-division and across state lines to Stennis Space Center?
    If the public transportation was decent, there would be one between the random sub-division and random area close to the office building.

    Close? It's seriously just one maybe two buildings just by themselves on the side of the highway. You would need a stop just for it.

    Multiply that by the hundreds of similar places.

    It's cost prohibitive.

    You don't need any kind of formal stop. Just let drivers stop to pick people up, and common gathering areas are likely to come about on their own outside subdivisions.

    If there were a few buses running down one of the nearby roads, they could potentially pick up thousands of people at the entrance to subdivisions without going in and take them to any of the large cities on the way (to be later picked up by other bus systems).

    So how many buses do you think it would take so that you could just walk out of your sub-division and grab one in like ten minutes? 100s? 1000s?

    How do you even know if the bus that just stopped is going where you need to go?

    Traffic will get even worse if you have buses stopping and blocking the road every 50 feet.

    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    hippofant wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    So, how exactly are you going to do this?

    Is there going to be a bus line between our random sub-division and random-office-building-by-the-side-of-the-interstate? Between our sub-division and across state lines to Stennis Space Center?

    PS. This ignores the idea that maybe we should be placing the places where we work in good locations, rather than congregating all our workplaces in a single area of the city to be dubbed "downtown" or in random places where there are low property taxes to be dubbed "the boondocks" regardless of accessibility. Public transportation works best when urban planning is done AROUND it, not when it's added on afterward.

    It's rather too late for that.

    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
  • WMain00WMain00 Registered User
    edited June 2010
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/us_and_canada/10396554.stm

    Jesus. Fucking. Christ.

    There's incompetence, and then there's BP.

  • OctoparrotOctoparrot Registered User
    edited June 2010
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    So how many buses do you think it would take so that you could just walk out of your sub-division and grab one in like ten minutes? 100s? 1000s?

    Why would you need a bus passing through suburban areas every 10 minutes? People are unable to intelligently manage their time?
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    How do you even know if the bus that just stopped is going where you need to go?

    We have bus routes.
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Traffic will get even worse if you have buses stopping and blocking the road every 50 feet.

    I'm assuming some hyperbole here with the "every 50 feet", but one of the purposes of a bus system is to decrease traffic.

    the GOP shouldn't give a rats ass about them since they won't vote for them. If someone won't vote for you they might as well not exist.
  • hippofanthippofant Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    hippofant wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    So, how exactly are you going to do this?

    Is there going to be a bus line between our random sub-division and random-office-building-by-the-side-of-the-interstate? Between our sub-division and across state lines to Stennis Space Center?

    PS. This ignores the idea that maybe we should be placing the places where we work in good locations, rather than congregating all our workplaces in a single area of the city to be dubbed "downtown" or in random places where there are low property taxes to be dubbed "the boondocks" regardless of accessibility. Public transportation works best when urban planning is done AROUND it, not when it's added on afterward.

    It's rather too late for that.

    That's like saying, it's too late to stop the leak, so whatever. (Oh wait...) Even if it's too late to prevent it from happening, whether it be oil spilling out or bad urban planning, we still have to FIX the damn thing eventually, by cleaning up the oil or replanning our urban centres (and rethinking our productivity models). As much as people are complaining about how it'd be hard or painful or whatever, there's always a comeuppance for this sort of societal shit... always. It's like a Shakespeare play - you can repent now and fix things, or you can wait for the shit to hit the fan so everybody and their mom dies gruesomely.

  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    75 percent of people live in urban areas. The poor in the remaining 25 percent can be dealt with with subsidies aimed particularly at them. Cheap electric cars, for example.

  • wwtMaskwwtMask Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    ITT: people continue to make the same excuses for staying firmly latched to Big Oil's teat as they did decades ago.

    When he dies, I hope they write "Worst Affirmative Action Hire, EVER" on his grave. His corpse should be trolled.
    Twitter - @liberaltruths | Google+ - http://gplus.to/wwtMask | Occupy Tallahassee
  • MKRMKR Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    MKR wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Is there going to be a bus line between our random sub-division and random-office-building-by-the-side-of-the-interstate? Between our sub-division and across state lines to Stennis Space Center?
    If the public transportation was decent, there would be one between the random sub-division and random area close to the office building.

    Close? It's seriously just one maybe two buildings just by themselves on the side of the highway. You would need a stop just for it.

    Multiply that by the hundreds of similar places.

    It's cost prohibitive.

    You don't need any kind of formal stop. Just let drivers stop to pick people up, and common gathering areas are likely to come about on their own outside subdivisions.

    If there were a few buses running down one of the nearby roads, they could potentially pick up thousands of people at the entrance to subdivisions without going in and take them to any of the large cities on the way (to be later picked up by other bus systems).

    So how many buses do you think it would take so that you could just walk out of your sub-division and grab one in like ten minutes? 100s? 1000s?

    How do you even know if the bus that just stopped is going where you need to go?

    Traffic will get even worse if you have buses stopping and blocking the road every 50 feet.

    I'm not talking about a stroll around town here. This would be for commuting.

    As for traffic, we manage it in cities with tons of congestion. This would be on open roads where you see a car every once in a while.

  • TofystedethTofystedeth veni, veneri, vamoosi Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Dallas' DART system isn't terrible. It's not as extensive or easy as say, Hong Kong's mass transit system (oh how I love the Octupus Card) but it could get me pretty much anywhere I needed to go back when I lived there. I didn't even learn to drive till I was 22 and out of college living in the sticks.

    steam_sig.png
  • wwtMaskwwtMask Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    High gas prices would also encourage more telecommuting and the widening of broadband infrastructure. I personally could do my job from home and I would if they'd allow me to.

    When he dies, I hope they write "Worst Affirmative Action Hire, EVER" on his grave. His corpse should be trolled.
    Twitter - @liberaltruths | Google+ - http://gplus.to/wwtMask | Occupy Tallahassee
  • SpacemilkSpacemilk Registered User
    edited June 2010
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Katrina was mentioned. Everyone who had a car was able to get up and get out before the storm hit (pretty much). Everyone who didn't was stuck in the city and was screwed.
    Hurricane Rita. That is all.

  • TofystedethTofystedeth veni, veneri, vamoosi Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    yeah, I could easily fulfill about 80% of my work duties from my house.

    steam_sig.png
  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Octoparrot wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    So how many buses do you think it would take so that you could just walk out of your sub-division and grab one in like ten minutes? 100s? 1000s?

    Why would you need a bus passing through suburban areas every 10 minutes? People are unable to intelligently manage their time?

    "Welp, you missed the one bus for today, I guess you don't go to work. Have fun being unemployed!"
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    How do you even know if the bus that just stopped is going where you need to go?

    We have bus routes.

    MKR doesn't seem to think we need routes.
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Traffic will get even worse if you have buses stopping and blocking the road every 50 feet.

    I'm assuming some hyperbole here with the "every 50 feet", but one of the purposes of a bus system is to decrease traffic.

    Not much. There is a sub-division every like block or less. And by and large there are no sidewalks between them. Or even into them.

    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
  • MKRMKR Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    MKR doesn't seem to think we need routes.

    The hell? I didn't say this.

    I don't think you read what I said and understood it fully.

  • SpacemilkSpacemilk Registered User
    edited June 2010
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    MKR wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Is there going to be a bus line between our random sub-division and random-office-building-by-the-side-of-the-interstate? Between our sub-division and across state lines to Stennis Space Center?
    If the public transportation was decent, there would be one between the random sub-division and random area close to the office building.

    Close? It's seriously just one maybe two buildings just by themselves on the side of the highway. You would need a stop just for it.

    Multiply that by the hundreds of similar places.

    It's cost prohibitive.

    You don't need any kind of formal stop. Just let drivers stop to pick people up, and common gathering areas are likely to come about on their own outside subdivisions.

    If there were a few buses running down one of the nearby roads, they could potentially pick up thousands of people at the entrance to subdivisions without going in and take them to any of the large cities on the way (to be later picked up by other bus systems).

    So how many buses do you think it would take so that you could just walk out of your sub-division and grab one in like ten minutes? 100s? 1000s?

    How do you even know if the bus that just stopped is going where you need to go?

    Traffic will get even worse if you have buses stopping and blocking the road every 50 feet.
    So wait... you're saying traffic would be WORSE if we condensed 40-50 people who normally each have their own car, into one big bus?

    Also, if you have a dedicated subway/train system, then you just need to bus people from the 'burbs into the nearest stop for the subway. A few stops per subdivision, max, and you're good to go. There's no reason to make multiple stops along major streets. Also I have no idea where you're from, but in Houston we basically have a "bus lane" for the metro. It wouldn't be out of the question to create such a thing, particularly if traffic is going down because more people are taking the bus.

    However as much as I think this system would work excellently in most major cities, Houston is definitely a city that may be too far gone as far as sprawl goes.

  • SpacemilkSpacemilk Registered User
    edited June 2010
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Octoparrot wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    So how many buses do you think it would take so that you could just walk out of your sub-division and grab one in like ten minutes? 100s? 1000s?

    Why would you need a bus passing through suburban areas every 10 minutes? People are unable to intelligently manage their time?

    "Welp, you missed the one bus for today, I guess you don't go to work. Have fun being unemployed!"
    Exaggeration and dreaming up extreme examples is a PERFECT way to disprove an argument. Obviously there's no middle ground between "once every 10 minutes" and "once per day".

  • Protein ShakesProtein Shakes __BANNED USERS
    edited June 2010
    I think we should create a new thread about this subject since we don't seem to be discussing the oil spill anymore.

    Modern Man wrote: »
    Well, if my mom met the following criteria... I'd be in favor if waterboarding her.
  • TofystedethTofystedeth veni, veneri, vamoosi Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Octoparrot wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    So how many buses do you think it would take so that you could just walk out of your sub-division and grab one in like ten minutes? 100s? 1000s?

    Why would you need a bus passing through suburban areas every 10 minutes? People are unable to intelligently manage their time?

    "Welp, you missed the one bus for today, I guess you don't go to work. Have fun being unemployed!"
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    How do you even know if the bus that just stopped is going where you need to go?

    We have bus routes.

    MKR doesn't seem to think we need routes.
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Traffic will get even worse if you have buses stopping and blocking the road every 50 feet.

    I'm assuming some hyperbole here with the "every 50 feet", but one of the purposes of a bus system is to decrease traffic.

    Not much. There is a sub-division every like block or less. And by and large there are no sidewalks between them. Or even into them.

    In Dallas the bus typically stops every other block. Most routes it's a 7-15 minute wait between buses. Which is easily enough time to get to the closest stop to you if you plan ahead.

    steam_sig.png
  • SpacemilkSpacemilk Registered User
    edited June 2010
    I think we should create a new thread about this subject since we don't seem to be discussing the oil spill anymore.
    Go for it, if you want it. Then post a link in this thread. I'll move to the new thread, if you do create it.

  • Protein ShakesProtein Shakes __BANNED USERS
    edited June 2010
    Spacemilk wrote: »
    I think we should create a new thread about this subject since we don't seem to be discussing the oil spill anymore.
    Go for it, if you want it. Then post a link in this thread. I'll move to the new thread, if you do create it.

    I can't create threads since I'm jailed.

    Modern Man wrote: »
    Well, if my mom met the following criteria... I'd be in favor if waterboarding her.
  • SpacemilkSpacemilk Registered User
    edited June 2010
    Spacemilk wrote: »
    I think we should create a new thread about this subject since we don't seem to be discussing the oil spill anymore.
    Go for it, if you want it. Then post a link in this thread. I'll move to the new thread, if you do create it.

    I can't create threads since I'm jailed.
    oops!

  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    You people have clearly never lived in a small town sub-urb. Look, when I get home I'll make a nice fancy OP with like Google Earth pictures and shit.

    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
  • enc0reenc0re Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Here's the deal. If you want to live like that, pay up. Gas prices will force demographic changes. The choice is between "artificial" increases now, or guaranteed increases later. Oh and the town I grew up in had a population of 6,000. I had to walk 15 minutes to the bus station, take a 30 minute ride into the city (pop ~= 100K), and walk another 15 minutes to go to middle-high school. Somehow, I managed that as an 11 year old. America will cope.

  • tinwhiskerstinwhiskers Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    The buses in Chicago are worthless, despite the near perfect grid layout of the city. Stopping every 200 yards to pick up or drop off 1 person makes them so slow I only use them if I'm going somewhere that costs $20+ to park at. The worse traffic is the worse the bus becomes. Driving from the heart of downtown(where the GF works) to our apt takes about 1/2 the time as the train+bus, and is cheaper.

  • SpacemilkSpacemilk Registered User
    edited June 2010
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    You people have clearly never lived in a small town sub-urb. Look, when I get home I'll make a nice fancy OP with like Google Earth pictures and shit.
    Growing up, we were the only people living on our entire square mile. Please shut up. Do you always just default to the most stupidly extreme assumptions when making any sort of argument?

    In my opinion, the simplest way to offset unsubsidized gas prices is to offer subsidies to people whose jobs require them to live in a low-population density environment, such as farmers, ranchers, etc. You could transfer some of the gas subsidies to this, if necessary. The trick is offering subsidies to people who MUST live in the country, versus people who do live in the country (or suburbs) but don't HAVE to. Also, you could offer tax incentives or something for people whose work address is less than X miles from their home address, or people who work from home X days per week.

  • SpacemilkSpacemilk Registered User
    edited June 2010
    The buses in Chicago are worthless, despite the near perfect grid layout of the city. Stopping every 200 yards to pick up or drop off 1 person makes them so slow I only use them if I'm going somewhere that costs $20+ to park at. The worse traffic is the worse the bus becomes. Driving from the heart of downtown(where the GF works) to our apt takes about 1/2 the time as the train+bus, and is cheaper.
    But if gas was ~$7/gallon, would riding the bus be worth it? What if the stops were changed to be every 1/3 mile? (about every 600 yards)

  • OctoparrotOctoparrot Registered User
    edited June 2010
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    You people have clearly never lived in a small town sub-urb. Look, when I get home I'll make a nice fancy OP with like Google Earth pictures and shit.

    100% of us clearly don't fall into a category that encompasses only 10-25% of Americans?

    HamHamJ, I found your response a little disingenuous, for the reasons other posters have already noted.

    What I can really work with you on is this,
    There is a sub-division every like block or less. And by and large there are no sidewalks between them. Or even into them.

    How large are these blocks, are we talking city blocks, or "blocks" that are essentially the space between two streets that can encompass N>5 miles? We should be both blaming city planners for deciding they could skimp by not paving a sidewalk/painting a bicycle lane.

    the GOP shouldn't give a rats ass about them since they won't vote for them. If someone won't vote for you they might as well not exist.
  • ReaperSMSReaperSMS Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    I think he's referring to gated communities, where the blocks are 1/4-1/2 a mile or so.

  • chandra.hpchandra.hp Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    WMain00 wrote: »
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/us_and_canada/10396554.stm

    Jesus. Fucking. Christ.

    There's incompetence, and then there's BP.
    This needs more facepalm! I mean seriously... WTF???

  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    ReaperSMS wrote: »
    I think he's referring to gated communities, where the blocks are 1/4-1/2 a mile or so.

    I'm not seeing a problem with fucking gated communities over.

  • SpacemilkSpacemilk Registered User
    edited June 2010
    Couscous wrote: »
    ReaperSMS wrote: »
    I think he's referring to gated communities, where the blocks are 1/4-1/2 a mile or so.

    I'm not seeing a problem with fucking gated communities over.
    yeah for some silly reason I thought we were talking about how higher gas prices would affect the poor...

  • bowenbowen Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    I'm actually wondering if the earthquake in Canada could possibly be linked to the oil leak in the Gulf.

  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    bowen wrote: »
    I'm actually wondering if the earthquake in Canada could possibly be linked to the oil leak in the Gulf.

    No. That was easy to answer.

  • TofystedethTofystedeth veni, veneri, vamoosi Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    It'd be far more likely to affect the faults in say, Oklahoma than way the hell up in Canada.

    steam_sig.png
  • nstfnstf __BANNED USERS
    edited June 2010
    Couscous wrote: »
    ReaperSMS wrote: »
    I think he's referring to gated communities, where the blocks are 1/4-1/2 a mile or so.

    I'm not seeing a problem with fucking gated communities over.

    Yeah I don't really have a problem with that. Nor the fact that suburbanites that moved 45 mins out of the city to get a giant house, with the giant yard, have to suck it up a bit.

  • bowenbowen Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Couscous wrote: »
    bowen wrote: »
    I'm actually wondering if the earthquake in Canada could possibly be linked to the oil leak in the Gulf.

    No. That was easy to answer.

    Indeed. Coincidences are weird like that. I had assumed there was a tectonic fault running along the eastern seaboard. Apparently this is not the case.

  • BubbaTBubbaT Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Could it be that they dont want 3600+ rigs to suddenly test their BOPs if thats what they are worried about being the point of failure, and instead just want to stop the 33 rigs before they become completely reliant on their BOPs?

    That doesn't make sense. If there's a problem with any of the equipment you want to know ASAP. That way if a problem is discovered you can shut down production now, during normal operations, rather than waiting for a system-stressing event to occur.


    Semi-related, the whole "shut down the 33 rigs because they might be dangerous" logic is even more baffling when contrasted against the government's stance on dispersants, which are being allowed even though we know they're dangerous.
    Q: So but -- okay, with that, that is a poison that pushes the oil down. What happens to that that? You are pushing it down -- what happens?

    ADMIRAL ALLEN [National Incident Commander, Unified Command]: The oil ultimately biodegrades. It is suspended for a while and then it biodegrades. All oil will ultimately weather and biodegrade. Dispersants accelerate that. And we know there is some toxicity with dispersants, but it is far less than the toxicity of the oil.
    http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/briefing-press-secretary-robert-gibbs-treasury-secretary-tim-geithner-under-secreta

    Except that oil doesn't "weather" underwater plus

    EPA data show dispersants plus oil are more toxic than either alone

    I thought this was supposed to be the pro-science White House take BP's dick out of your mouths for 5 seconds and listen to your goddamn scientists harglbarglgargbl



    But hey, at least they're taking it seriously, right?
    MS. BROWNER [Director, White House Office of Energy and Climate Change Policy]: * I’m going to give you a way to think about this maybe. If you have a oily pan and you go to wash it, you squirt some Dawn in, right? And what --

    Q *

    MS. BROWNER: Dawn. And what happens? It starts to -- Dawn, right. Okay, Joy, but actually Dawn is the preferred. And it starts -- that’s how they wash the animals, in Dawn. They actually use Dawn for the animals. And it starts -- you know, so in your kitchen sink, you have the oil starting to break up and you’re seeing that biodegrading process right in front of you. That’s what happens.

    Q Okay and also --

    MR. GIBBS: I don’t do dishes so I can’t *

    Q Ooh! (Laughter.)

    MS. BROWNER: I bet he’s doing some dishes tonight. (Laughter.)

    Yeah, yuck it up Ricky and Lucy. Coming up next:
    I call upon all nations to do everything they can to stop these terrorist killers. Thank you. Now watch this drive.

  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    MKR wrote: »
    You are aware these costs are passed on to consumers, right?
    Lands the most on whichever is least price elastic, but hits both.

    wbBv3fj.png
  • Professor PhobosProfessor Phobos Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Honestly, it'd be a WW2 level effort to get the US rejiggered to be less fuel intensive. You'd need some kind of overwhelming, "We need to save fuel for the boys fighting in [X]!" imperative and a mobilized economy to rebuild towns and communities and all the mass transit you'd need.

    Hopefully we'll detect alien life near our own solar system someday, and everyone will freak out and mobilize to prepare the Earth for possible invasion/look good for first contact.

  • Ziac45Ziac45 Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    I just heard this and figured I would share the news, BP knocked the cap off of the pipe. Oil is spilling out in full force again.

Sign In or Register to comment.