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Squats are a part of a balanced BIGMAN diet

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    Joe ChemoJoe Chemo Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Did 3x3 dips today. Considering last time I could 3x3 I was twenty lbs lighter, I'll take it.

    Also, deadlift pr. I've found the key is to arch your back as hard as possible, then arch harder.

    Joe Chemo on
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    PeenPeen Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Congrats Joe, it's always nice to hit that kind of milestone.

    I'm really thinking about videotaping myself bench so you guys can check to see what I'm screwing up. I've read all of the things and watched all of the videos and I just can't progress the way I think I should be able to. Five pounds a week works for a few weeks and then I stall out and have to reset and it's bugging the hell out of me.

    Peen on
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    MegaMan001MegaMan001 CRNA Rochester, MNRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    It's 91 degrees, I have a splitting headache from 9 goddamn hours of lecture, but fuck it I am going running because I've worked out for 35 goddamn straight days (counting two-a-days making up for a missed weekend) and I AM NOT STOPPING NOW!

    Time to man up!

    MegaMan001 on
    I am in the business of saving lives.
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    Chessboxing909Chessboxing909 Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Hey all, new to the thread. Here's my story so far.
    In January I started up at the local gym, starting out 3 days a week for the first month then moving up to a training program my brother, a local cop and fitness nut wrote out for me. I had smoked for 10 years and played games and sat on my ass for about just as long without doing much of anything. I also quit drinking pop, juice, tea, cut out fast food, all that.
    So, after the first month I started doing a 5 day work out play, Monday back, tuesday chest, weds legs, thurs arms and friday shoulders and traps. I do four sets of each excercise, usually 8-10 different excercises each day, increasing weight with each set, doing reps going from 12/10/8/6. I'm now trying to figure out a new workout plan because I've been told I need to switch since Ive been sticking to this plan for 5 days a week, with varying cardio for a half hour each day but I'm not sure exactly what to switch, or how to go about it. My goal is to try and put on a bit more muscle mass and just overall to get in better shape and feel better ((and holy shit do I feel better since I started.)) I take a whey protein 3 times a day with a L-glutamine supplement, Xpand, a creatine mix, once a day, and a BCAA mix after lifting before cardio. If anyone can help explain what I really should switch to, just basic ideas, I can probably figure it out from there, I'm just kinda stuck at the moment and unsure as to what needs to change to give it enough variety. Also, very excited, I just got my Fairtex training gloves ordered for hitting the heavy bag, so looking forward to that.


    Oh and one last thing. I did the Warrior Dash a bit ago out here in the chicago suburbs, and wow, if you guys get the chance go to one of these. I can't speak highly enough of it, amazing event, 3.17 mile obstacle course in the mud, just a TON of fun. I might post pics of me from the dash later.

    [url]Http://www.warriordash.com[/url]

    Anyways, thanks a lot all, I'll try to follow the thread a bit from here on, work hard and eat eat eat.

    Chessboxing909 on
    "I will f**kin' beat you into the ground in front of your whole life that I don't get to have." -Nick Diaz

    I love south american ground karate
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    PeenPeen Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Welcome to the thread Chess, I can pretty much guarantee that you're going to get suggestions for a very different kind of program from the one you're doing now from the guys in here :)

    In a similar vein, I'm intrigued by this article: http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_article_issue/issue_634?s=indexTitle#thibs-35-minutes-to-muscle

    Anybody else read it and have thoughts?

    Peen on
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    Chessboxing909Chessboxing909 Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Thanks Peen, I'll read that article in a sec here. I have nothing but free time while I look for work and wait to start school again so I've been entirely focused on this, reading everything I can and really working hard. A lot of it has been trial and error, almost none of my friends are interested in anything more then doing a few curls and they're of the pack a day chain smoking and going to the bar 3-4 days a week variety. :P

    Chessboxing909 on
    "I will f**kin' beat you into the ground in front of your whole life that I don't get to have." -Nick Diaz

    I love south american ground karate
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    PeenPeen Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    No problem. I can say for sure that a lot of folks around here when they start out are doing something like this or this, with dudes moving to Texas Method or some crazy shit like Smolov cycles when their linear gains drop off.

    Peen on
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    UsagiUsagi Nah Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Today I squatted the bar, no problems from my back or my ankle

    I'm super pleased

    Usagi on
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    tehmarkentehmarken BrooklynRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    That's a pretty nice program you've been following so far Chess.

    There's several options for switching things up, you don't even have to change your 5-day a week schedule. From what I've seen, the general recommendation is to change things up about every 3 months so that you counteract muscle efficiency. If you're doing the exact same lifts for a long time, your muscles and CNS (central nervous system) adapt and get really good at that particular motion. When you're really good at it, you're wasting less energy; which actually means you aren't pushing your muscles to work as much.

    By changing things up, you get rid of that kind of comfort level for your muscles, and a new motion means they have to work really hard again; which means strength gains.

    Like if you run one obstacle course over and over again, you get overall better and faster for a while. But then you start finding the specific tricks to cut a few seconds here and there instead of just running faster or jumping higher; crappy analogy but hopefully you get the point.



    Most guys here will endorse Rippetoe's Starting Strength, because it works and most of us used it to start from nothing. You get out of it what you put in (I don't get enough sleep and don't eat a big calorie surplus so I gain relatively slowly on SS), so it's a pretty straight forward effort:reward ratio.

    tehmarken on
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    Beef AvengerBeef Avenger Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Chess, post your actual routine. "Monday back, tuesday chest, weds legs, thurs arms and friday shoulders and traps" doesn't actually tell us much

    Beef Avenger on
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    Chessboxing909Chessboxing909 Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Sure thing, have to kinda think, make sure I'm not leaving anything out. I dont really write anything down.

    Mon
    Under grip pull ups, 4 sets until failure
    Wide grip lat pull 4 sets starting at 70-80 lbs 12/10/8/6 10 lb increase each set
    Sitting row w cable machine starting 110-120 lbs 12/10/8/6 10 lb increase each set
    Under grip lat pulls starting 70-80 lbs 12/10/8/6 10 lb increase each set
    Reverse grip pull downs starting 70-80 lbs 12/10/8/6 10 lb increase each set
    Single arm dumbbell rows starting 35-40 lbs 12/10/8/6 5 lb increase each set
    Lower back hyper extensions, 4 sets of 10 while holding 10 lbs
    Whatever it's called when you use the equipment for lower back hyperextensions and dip to the sides, while holding 25 pounds, 4 sets of 10

    Tues
    Flat dumb bell bench press, 35 lb dumbbells starting 4 sets 12/10/8/6 5 lb increase each set
    Incline dumbbell bench press, starting 30 lbs 4 sets 12/10/8/6 5 lb increase each set
    Decline dumbbell bench press, starting 20 lbs, 4 sets, 14/12/10/8 5 lb increase each set
    Machine flys starting 90-100 lbs, 12/10/8/6 10 lb increase each set
    Dips 4 sets each to failure
    Push down machine starting 100 lbs, 12/10/8/6 20 lb increase each set

    Weds
    Barbell squats, warm up set with just bar then starting with 50 lbs + bar and going up each set, 12/10/8/6
    ((Squats are new to me still, its a more recent addition so Ive been starting a bit lighter and really trying to learn the form, beginning to get more comfortable with it.))
    Sitting leg curls starting 80 lbs 12/10/8/6 increasing 10 lbs each set
    Standing machine calf raises, starting 120-160 lbs, 12/10/8/6 increasing 20 lbs per set
    Leg extensions starting 80-90 lbs, 12/10/8/6 increasing 10 lbs first sets, 20 lbs each set after
    Seated leg press 12/10/8/6 ((I forget starting weight on this))
    Ab work, 4 sets, front and each side, varies week to week what I do

    Thurs
    Reverse grip barbell curls starting 20 lbs, 12/10/8/6 increasing 10 lbs per set
    Seated preacher curls, starting 30 lbs, 12/10/8/6 increasing 10 lbs per set
    Standing Dumbbell hammer curls, starting 15 lbs, 12/10/8/6 increasing 5 lbs per set
    Cable machine standing curls, starting 50 lbs, 12/10/8/6 increasing 10 lbs per set
    Standing ez-bar triceps, starting 40 lbs, 12/10/8/6 increasing 10 lbs per set
    Cable machine standing triceps starting 50 lbs, 12/10/8/6 10 lb increase per set
    Pushdown machine starting 100 lbs, 12/10/8/6 20 lb increase per set
    Lying Supinating Dumbbell Extensions, starting 10 lbs, 12/10/8/6, 5 lb increase each set
    Usually try to get a few under grip pull ups at the very end

    Friday
    Dumbbell shrugs starting 55 lbs, 12/10/8/6 increasing 5 lbs per set, hold at peak for 3 seconds, roll shoulders back, hold 3 seconds, and down each rep.
    Two Arm Front Deltoid Dumbbell Raises starting 5-10 lbs, 12/10/8/6 increasing 5 lbs each set
    Dumbbell Deltoid Lateral Raises raises starting 5 lbs, 12/10/8/6 increasing 5 lbs each set
    Seated Two Arm Dumbbell Presses starting 25-30 lbs, 12/10/8/6 increasing 5 lbs per set
    Dont know a name for this, dumb bell raises directly to the side, starting 5 lbs, 12/10/8/6, increasing 5 lbs per set
    Ab work again

    Sorry it took a bit, I actually had to look up the names of a lot of things, I know the basics on how to do a lot but not the names at this point. I try to focus on doing each rep slowly, 2 seconds up 4 seconds down is what I was told to do.

    **Edit** Also, each day I do 30 mins cardio work, usually incline on the treadmill with varying speeds/incline, sometimes stair machine, sometimes handbike, and I do 5 mins warm up cardio before lifting.

    **Edit 2** Also worth mentioning, I'm 29 years old, 30 in september, and weight around 175-180 lbs, and I'm unable to do barbell flat bench presses due to problems with my left shoulder.

    Chessboxing909 on
    "I will f**kin' beat you into the ground in front of your whole life that I don't get to have." -Nick Diaz

    I love south american ground karate
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    Chessboxing909Chessboxing909 Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Peen wrote: »
    Welcome to the thread Chess, I can pretty much guarantee that you're going to get suggestions for a very different kind of program from the one you're doing now from the guys in here :)

    In a similar vein, I'm intrigued by this article: http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_article_issue/issue_634?s=indexTitle#thibs-35-minutes-to-muscle

    Anybody else read it and have thoughts?
    Great article Peen, kinda makes me think more about the band resistance training. I read his perfect rep article too, that's a really new idea to me, I've been doing really slow reps and thats just about the complete opposite. The video shows he does very quick reps but keeps control real well, may give that a shot.

    Chessboxing909 on
    "I will f**kin' beat you into the ground in front of your whole life that I don't get to have." -Nick Diaz

    I love south american ground karate
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    GodfatherGodfather Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Okay, I signed up for a year membership at this sweet gym in the heart of downtown Toronto, and I get the first three months free thanks to some negotiation!

    I have a fitness assessment tomorrow that's guaranteed to put me through the ringer, which is great, and the guy will give me some more nutrition tips so I can meet my 20-pound lean muscle mass quota by next year.

    Looking forward to it!

    Godfather on
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    psyck0psyck0 Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Hey Godfather, did you actually read that link I gave you? It has all the nutrition tips you need. Eat a hell of a lot, especially of meat and milk.

    psyck0 on
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    GodfatherGodfather Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Can you quote it for me? I might have skimmed over it accidentally.

    Godfather on
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    tehmarkentehmarken BrooklynRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Guys, I made a delicious find at a supermarket near me in Japan. They have a special storebrand shredded cheese mix that comes in 350g bags (about 3/4lb); the stuff comes down to basically 50%water/25%fat/25%protein. And it sells for Y198 (about $2) a bag.

    90g of protein for $2. This may be the best discovery of non-meat nutrition I've made in Japan, (right behind my meaty discovery of squid jerky).

    tehmarken on
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    TheRealBadgerTheRealBadger Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Squid jerky? How'd that turn out?

    TheRealBadger on
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    tehmarkentehmarken BrooklynRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Utterly delicious. Dried squid is a big traditional snack in Japan, and there's different varieties of tenderness. I always get super tender shredded type. Smells kinda strong and vinegarry, but the taste isn't that strong. Not especially fishy, just kinda meaty n salty.

    The fact that it is made of virtually nothing is what's great about it. 100g only yields about 70kCal, and is about 20g of protein. I've had trouble finding the exact nutrients because I haven't found any analysis of squid in English. The only possible concern would be that it's about 200mg of cholestorol per 100g; but virtually no fat so that evens out.

    tehmarken on
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    SliderSlider Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    It's been a little over 2 months since my surgery. I'm back into a 3-day routine and try to do cardio on the off days; went jogging tonight, too.

    The only negative is that I'm trying to protect an injured toe on my right foot, which is fucking up my ankle.

    Slider on
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    Muse Among MenMuse Among Men Suburban Bunny Princess? Its time for a new shtick Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    This isn't really related to my case since I am trying to gain, but you know all that stuff that claims to help you lose weight without the pain? Well, isn't hunger kind of supposed to happen? Isn't claiming otherwise disingenuous?

    Muse Among Men on
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    tehmarkentehmarken BrooklynRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    If you've been a fatty for a long time, your body won't like going on lower calories. You'll be hungry, because your stomach isn't getting what it's used to.

    For people coming from very overweight, dealing with hunger pains is a real issue.

    tehmarken on
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    Muse Among MenMuse Among Men Suburban Bunny Princess? Its time for a new shtick Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    That is what I figured. It just sort of seems that weight loss is marketed in a way that glosses that fact over. Or perhaps it is better understood as showing someone a room and hiding that fact under a rug or behind the couch.

    Muse Among Men on
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    psyck0psyck0 Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    psyck0 wrote: »
    Godfather wrote: »
    Alright dudes, this is it.


    I've already started this a few weeks back, but now it's official; i'm shooting to be a big man.

    Kind of.


    I'm gonna spend the next year training to become a Krav Maga instructor, and I will not make it through training unless I throw on some serious lean body mass. My ultimate goal is to put on 30 pounds, but that's not something feasible within the time frame and will probably take two years to do.

    I'm an ectomorph with one of those screaming metabolisms, and am at 142 as of today. I need to put on twenty pounds of pure muscle by April of next year, which is gonna be tough. Just to gain weight i'm gonna have to inhale at least 4000 calories the clean way, i.e. not through fast food or restaurants.

    I have a nutritionist who'll be checking up on me on a weekly/bi-weekly basis, and i'll be tearing it up at the gym/personal trainer three days a week, training for combat four days a week, and doing light, daily exercises on a regular basis.


    This is gonna take a shit ton of work, especially with the eating, and i'm even going to school part time to make this happen. Serious business here.

    Wish me luck!

    Actually, you can gain over 30 lbs of lean body mass in 6 months and then cut all the fat you've gained in 3 if you're willing to bust your ass. See http://startingstrength.com/resources/forum/showthread.php?t=15386.

    psyck0 on
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    Chessboxing909Chessboxing909 Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    I read about that GOMAD diet and the results that guy got and damn, I'm gonna have to try that when fall hits. Perfect to start after summer ends and be working on losing the fat before spring.

    Chessboxing909 on
    "I will f**kin' beat you into the ground in front of your whole life that I don't get to have." -Nick Diaz

    I love south american ground karate
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    tehmarkentehmarken BrooklynRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    GOMAD? Where's Ham!

    tehmarken on
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    psyck0psyck0 Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Remember, GOMAD is for skinny boys and hard-gainers, not for fatties and ex-fatties. I don't do it for that reason.

    psyck0 on
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    Chessboxing909Chessboxing909 Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Yeah I'm 6'0" 175-180ish pounds, always been pretty slim, I think it'd fit me. I had been getting a bit of a beer gut before starting all this in Jan but nothing crazy.

    Chessboxing909 on
    "I will f**kin' beat you into the ground in front of your whole life that I don't get to have." -Nick Diaz

    I love south american ground karate
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    Sunday_AssassinSunday_Assassin Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    that's a shitload of exercises, chess

    more isn't necessarily better you know

    Sunday_Assassin on
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    Chessboxing909Chessboxing909 Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Yeah I know, think that's too much? My brother had helped me write it all up, it's worked for him, though I have to get a good setup to switch it up every 2 months or so.

    Chessboxing909 on
    "I will f**kin' beat you into the ground in front of your whole life that I don't get to have." -Nick Diaz

    I love south american ground karate
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    TheRealBadgerTheRealBadger Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Goddamn I am hungry today. I'm pretty sure I have worms and the worms are lifting weights as well.

    I threw together some chicken, shredded red cabbage, onion, green apple and a little plum sauce. Shit is delicious.

    TheRealBadger on
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    TubeTube Registered User admin
    edited July 2010
    Yeah I know, think that's too much? My brother had helped me write it all up, it's worked for him, though I have to get a good setup to switch it up every 2 months or so.

    The more work you do the more calories you'll burn. This has plusses and minuses.

    Tube on
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    Sunday_AssassinSunday_Assassin Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Yeah I know, think that's too much? My brother had helped me write it all up, it's worked for him, though I have to get a good setup to switch it up every 2 months or so.

    you could probably safely cut half the exercises from each day tbh

    another few things:

    - chins to failure as your first exercise on Mondays is not something I'd recommend
    - 4 upper body days for every lower body day is a pretty poor ratio
    - arms day could be easily worked into the Monday (biceps) and Tuesday (triceps) routines
    - do overhead presses to work your shoulders
    - and deadlifts if you wanna work your traps

    Sunday_Assassin on
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    Sunday_AssassinSunday_Assassin Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    I disagree with some of it, but it's still a fun read

    53 Ways to Build Muscle, Gain Strength & Be F*ckin Awesome

    Sunday_Assassin on
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    NogsNogs Crap, crap, mega crap. Crap, crap, mega crap.Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    got an LA Fitness membership a week or so ago, mainly because my girlfriend is now a Spin Instructor for them so I get a discounted membership.

    Just woke up at 5AM today and swam for awhile.

    Haven't swam in years, I used be on a swim team all year round from ages 7-17.

    Forgot how easy it is for that shit to just take the wind out of you if you don't pace yourself.

    Nogs on
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    MegaMan001MegaMan001 CRNA Rochester, MNRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Usagi wrote: »
    Today I squatted the bar, no problems from my back or my ankle

    I'm super pleased

    Yesss! This is how it begins.

    MegaMan001 on
    I am in the business of saving lives.
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    KakodaimonosKakodaimonos Code fondler Helping the 1% get richerRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Yeah I know, think that's too much? My brother had helped me write it all up, it's worked for him, though I have to get a good setup to switch it up every 2 months or so.

    you could probably safely cut half the exercises from each day tbh

    another few things:

    - chins to failure as your first exercise on Mondays is not something I'd recommend
    - 4 upper body days for every lower body day is a pretty poor ratio
    - arms day could be easily worked into the Monday (biceps) and Tuesday (triceps) routines
    - do overhead presses to work your shoulders
    - and deadlifts if you wanna work your traps

    I'd watch the overhead presses if he has shoulder issues with flat bench already. Chess, are you doing any rehab/prehab shoulder work?

    Definitely do heavy squats and heavy deadlifts. For a beginner, nothing adds mass like those. And cut down the volume and number of exercises. Assistance work is just that, assistance.

    And if you want to do another mud run, there's the Run Amuck down in Palos Park in September.

    Kakodaimonos on
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    GorkGork Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    So I've been doing Max OT for about two months now and while I like it, I figure I should switch it up soon. Does anyone have any experience and advice(good or bad) with Westside for Skinny Bastards? Specifically the first template listed here; http://www.defrancostraining.com/articles.html

    Do you switch up which exercise you do from each section every week or can you pick one and stick with it throughout however long you stay with the program?

    Alternatively, I could just change which exercises I do from Max OT, but opinions are welcome.

    Gork on
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    Joe ChemoJoe Chemo Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Chess, for an example of a simpler novice plan, here's mine.

    Workout A:
    Squat 3X5
    Dips 3Xfailure
    Deadlift 1X5
    Chins 3Xfailure

    Workout B
    Squat 3X5
    Press 3X5
    Power Clean 8X3
    Chins 3Xfailure

    I go to gym 3 days a week, and altnerate A and B every time.

    This is essentially the Starting Strength novice plan, with dips replacing bench because my shoulders are fucked, and chins as an assistance exercise.

    Joe Chemo on
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    KakodaimonosKakodaimonos Code fondler Helping the 1% get richerRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Gork wrote: »
    So I've been doing Max OT for about two months now and while I like it, I figure I should switch it up soon. Does anyone have any experience and advice(good or bad) with Westside for Skinny Bastards? Specifically the first template listed here; http://www.defrancostraining.com/articles.html

    Do you switch up which exercise you do from each section every week or can you pick one and stick with it throughout however long you stay with the program?

    Alternatively, I could just change which exercises I do from Max OT, but opinions are welcome.

    2 months is kinda short for a mesocycle. I usually try for 3-4 months.

    How strong are you? Are you pushing 250+ on your 1 RM Bench, 350+ Dead, 300+ Squat? Westside is good if you're getting towards the top end of your limits. If you're more in the middle, I'd suggest either a Texas program or Bill Starr's 5x5.

    Bascially, for Westside, on the primary you go for a full 1RM on the max effort days. You should be adding weight to your 1 RM every week on ME days. Rotate the primary exercises out every 2-3 weeks to avoid CNS burnout. If you're not adding weight EVERY ME DAY TO YOUR PRIMARY LIFT, you're not doing Westside the way Simmons recommends. It's a bitch and a half and I've never been able to do full Westside on deadlifts. You just get absolutely fried on it. And even Simmons isn't quite sure how to fit deadlifts into his programs.

    Kakodaimonos on
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    GorkGork Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Gork wrote: »
    So I've been doing Max OT for about two months now and while I like it, I figure I should switch it up soon. Does anyone have any experience and advice(good or bad) with Westside for Skinny Bastards? Specifically the first template listed here; http://www.defrancostraining.com/articles.html

    Do you switch up which exercise you do from each section every week or can you pick one and stick with it throughout however long you stay with the program?

    Alternatively, I could just change which exercises I do from Max OT, but opinions are welcome.

    2 months is kinda short for a mesocycle. I usually try for 3-4 months.

    How strong are you? Are you pushing 250+ on your 1 RM Bench, 350+ Dead, 300+ Squat? Westside is good if you're getting towards the top end of your limits. If you're more in the middle, I'd suggest either a Texas program or Bill Starr's 5x5.

    Bascially, for Westside, on the primary you go for a full 1RM on the max effort days. You should be adding weight to your 1 RM every week on ME days. Rotate the primary exercises out every 2-3 weeks to avoid CNS burnout. If you're not adding weight EVERY ME DAY TO YOUR PRIMARY LIFT, you're not doing Westside the way Simmons recommends. It's a bitch and a half and I've never been able to do full Westside on deadlifts. You just get absolutely fried on it. And even Simmons isn't quite sure how to fit deadlifts into his programs.

    I'm definitely more in the middle. I didn't want to do something like Texas or Bill Starr because I felt they were a little bit more geared towards powerlifters. Also, squatting more than once a week made it pretty hard for me to fit in running, which I do for fun and really would rather not give up.

    I guess a summary of my working weights would help.

    Height: 6'1'
    Weight: 190
    Bench: 180
    Squat: 225
    Deadlift: 230
    OHP: 120

    I'm well aware my deadlift should not be that close to my squat. I'm going to chalk that up to having been a runner for years before I started lifting.

    Gork on
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