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Walmart Spends $2M To Save $7K (Or, Why Regulations Do Matter)

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Posts

  • HenroidHenroid Nobody Nowhere fastRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    So OSHA's foot was down in the sense of "If anything bad happens to an employee, it's the employer's fault"? No matter what outside sources cause it? No matter the rarity or severity of any given circumstance?

    "Ultima Online Pre-Trammel is the perfect example of why libertarians are full of shit."
    - @Ludious
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  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Henroid wrote: »
    delroland wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    Getting trampled by a crowd is not a recognized habit of working a retail / grocery store, man.

    If you're working at a concert venue or soccer match, maybe it is.

    But trampled at retail being a recognized hazard? That's what I'm calling into question. It's a freak fucking accident is what it was. Shit man, is someone gonna get struck by lightning in the parking lot and Wal-Mart getting fined for that?

    Employees being struck by lightning is not preventable (well, at least in this context). Letting a crowd rush into your store and trample your employees to death is.

    To expand upon my parenthetical statement, if WalMart sent an employee to hang signs during a thunderstorm watch, you'd better fucking believe they'd be fined.

    Well, we know it now that trampling is a hazard. Which is why I think it's one thing to announce, "In light of this, OSHA is expecting everyone to prevent future cases from happening." But then to jump back and retro-enforce it seems weird.

    What year did OSHA make it a recognized hazard, and what year did this event occur (that second part I already know, 2008, since I was working at Wal-Mart at the time)? I'm not asking about known cases that have occurred prior to 2008. I'm asking when OSHA officially had their foot down on the issue. If it was prior to the case, fine, Wal-Mart should've paid the fine. If it was after the case, Wal-Mart shouldn't be fined by OSHA.

    That's all I want to say on it.

    Not every regulation has a bright line. This is a good thing.

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum
    Spoiler:
  • So It GoesSo It Goes Do I have something on my face?Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Henroid wrote: »
    So OSHA's foot was down in the sense of "If anything bad happens to an employee, it's the employer's fault"? No matter what outside sources cause it? No matter the rarity or severity of any given circumstance?

    Yes the employer has a general duty to its employees to keep them from getting hurt or killed on the job!
    In May 2009, OSHA accused Wal-Mart of failing to provide a place of employment that was “free from recognized hazards.” Specifically, the agency said the company violated its “general duty” to employees by failing to take adequate steps to protect them from a situation that was “likely to cause death or serious physical harm” because of “crowd surge or crowd trampling.”

    That is like, the fucking point of OSHA.

    If you disagree that this situation falls under this rule because you think it is not foreseeable enough, that's fine.

    NOPE.
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Henroid wrote: »
    So OSHA's foot was down in the sense of "If anything bad happens to an employee, it's the employer's fault"? No matter what outside sources cause it? No matter the rarity or severity of any given circumstance?

    If it's something that the employer could foresee and should have taken steps to mitigate, then you're damn right it's the employer's fault.

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum
    Spoiler:
  • Magus`Magus` Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Magus` wrote: »
    Well, from the sound of it this is the first time it's ever happened.

    If you think of all the sales they've done, and all the Wal*Marts there are, statistically isn't it actually a freak accident?

    Also, I'm a reasonable person and I sure as hell wouldn't expect people to bash down doors (which is illegal BTW) and destroy barricades to save 200 bucks on a laptop.

    No, not really, considering that they've had injuries in past years - 2008 just marked the first year where there was an honest to goodness fatality.

    Second, the fact that the mob got that unruly shows that Walmart had screwed the pooch - you don't let things get to that point.

    Goddamn Wal*Mart not turning on their anti-unruly mob suppression machine. God

  • EvanderEvander Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    In light of the regulations posted, I'm not standing behind walmart here anymore

    but just out of curiosity, how do you all think walmart could have prevented this (other than not opening)?

    georgersig.jpg
  • HenroidHenroid Nobody Nowhere fastRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    So It Goes wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    So OSHA's foot was down in the sense of "If anything bad happens to an employee, it's the employer's fault"? No matter what outside sources cause it? No matter the rarity or severity of any given circumstance?

    Yes the employer has a general duty to its employees to keep them from getting hurt or killed on the job!
    In May 2009, OSHA accused Wal-Mart of failing to provide a place of employment that was “free from recognized hazards.” Specifically, the agency said the company violated its “general duty” to employees by failing to take adequate steps to protect them from a situation that was “likely to cause death or serious physical harm” because of “crowd surge or crowd trampling.”

    That is like, the fucking point of OSHA.

    If you disagree that this situation falls under this rule because you think it is not foreseeable enough, that's fine.

    Well I disagree with it because it's the first one to get the amount of attention generally required to make people watch out for it from now on. Like it's an awareness thing. It's not about to get any better because our society just kinda continues up toward that trend of being disregarding of others around them.

    /deep-moment

    So I mean, if it happens again (and as much as I hate to think, it actually will), any fine is acceptable.

    As an aside, I wish going after all the individuals in the mob wasn't a logistical nightmare. I remember wishing on that so much a couple years ago when this happened and people here mentioning the logistics to me. It's one of those shitty sobering moments of "Oh, life really sucks ass sometimes."

    "Ultima Online Pre-Trammel is the perfect example of why libertarians are full of shit."
    - @Ludious
    PA Lets Play Archive - Twitter - Blog (6/15/14)
  • So It GoesSo It Goes Do I have something on my face?Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Evander wrote: »
    In light of the regulations posted, I'm not standing behind walmart here anymore

    but just out of curiosity, how do you all think walmart could have prevented this (other than not opening)?

    Mob gets that unruly, don't open the store until order is restored by cops. Get your employees out of there until order is restored by cops. Don't let your employees stand in a Red Rover line while a crowd comes busting through the doors.

    NOPE.
  • HenroidHenroid Nobody Nowhere fastRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Evander wrote: »
    In light of the regulations posted, I'm not standing behind walmart here anymore

    but just out of curiosity, how do you all think walmart could have prevented this (other than not opening)?

    Equipping their employees in vests that have those electric bug-killing tennis-rackets strapped to the outside of them.

    No wait. <_<

    The only way I could see it in that case is having some long-distance method of unlocking the door. Because someone having to go up to do it is unfortunate. Maybe even a security team standing at the door, making a barricade, as the person unlocks it and the door initially opens.

    It can be done.

    It just shouldn't have to be. But again, society.

    "Ultima Online Pre-Trammel is the perfect example of why libertarians are full of shit."
    - @Ludious
    PA Lets Play Archive - Twitter - Blog (6/15/14)
  • Captain CarrotCaptain Carrot Harrisonburg, VARegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Magus` wrote: »
    Magus` wrote: »
    Well, from the sound of it this is the first time it's ever happened.

    If you think of all the sales they've done, and all the Wal*Marts there are, statistically isn't it actually a freak accident?

    Also, I'm a reasonable person and I sure as hell wouldn't expect people to bash down doors (which is illegal BTW) and destroy barricades to save 200 bucks on a laptop.

    No, not really, considering that they've had injuries in past years - 2008 just marked the first year where there was an honest to goodness fatality.

    Second, the fact that the mob got that unruly shows that Walmart had screwed the pooch - you don't let things get to that point.

    Goddamn Wal*Mart not turning on their anti-unruly mob suppression machine. God
    Also known as police, but that would have cut into their precious profits

    owning members of congress is not cheap, you know

  • So It GoesSo It Goes Do I have something on my face?Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    It's the first one to get attention because someone died. And that's unfortunate because if the earlier ones had gotten more attention maybe that person would not have died.

    I don't fault OSHA for wanting to take this shit seriously, even if all they can do is a tiny fine.

    The idea is to keep it from ever happening again by setting a precedent and holding Walmart to its duties. If you give them a pass this time, next time they'll point it out and say "but you didn't do anything last time how we were supposed to know it was a violation of the rule!!"

    NOPE.
  • emnmnmeemnmnme Heard about this on conservative radio:Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Henroid wrote: »
    So OSHA's foot was down in the sense of "If anything bad happens to an employee, it's the employer's fault"? No matter what outside sources cause it? No matter the rarity or severity of any given circumstance?

    If it's something that the employer could foresee and should have taken steps to mitigate, then you're damn right it's the employer's fault.

    That's vague. If a customer goes crazy in the sports aisle and starts clonking employees with a golf club, you'd just say the golf clubs should have been kept under lock and key. It was preventable.

    The mob outside the doors went crazy on Black Friday 2008.

    easybossfight_zps4752c132.gif
  • delrolanddelroland Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Corporations don't get protections from the government if they make an oops. OSHA is an oversight organization whose duty is to protect and ensure the safety of the workforce, not the rights of the company to place their employees in dangerous situations. In this case, the WalMart store created a dangerous atmosphere where customers were not let into the store in a reasonable manner, and they placed their employee right in the middle of the danger zone. How could you possibly feel they deserve a bye on this?

    EVE: Online - the most fun you will ever have not playing a game.
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  • So It GoesSo It Goes Do I have something on my face?Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    emnmnme wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    So OSHA's foot was down in the sense of "If anything bad happens to an employee, it's the employer's fault"? No matter what outside sources cause it? No matter the rarity or severity of any given circumstance?

    If it's something that the employer could foresee and should have taken steps to mitigate, then you're damn right it's the employer's fault.

    That's vague. If a customer goes crazy in the sports aisle and starts clonking employees with a golf club, you'd just say the golf clubs should have been kept under lock and key. It was preventable.

    The mob outside the doors went crazy on Black Friday 2008.

    Strike three on the dumb analogies, dude.

    NOPE.
  • HenroidHenroid Nobody Nowhere fastRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    So It Goes wrote: »
    It's the first one to get attention because someone died. And that's unfortunate because if the earlier ones had gotten more attention maybe that person would not have died.

    I don't fault OSHA for wanting to take this shit seriously, even if all they can do is a tiny fine.
    Well I won't argue with you on any of that. I mean, think of how things went when airline disasters happened that prompted new regulations there, or mining, or railroad travel, etc.
    The idea is to keep it from ever happening again by setting a precedent and holding Walmart to its duties. If you give them a pass this time, next time they'll point it out and say "but you didn't do anything last time how we were supposed to know it was a violation of the rule!!"
    If that was Wal-Mart's reaction if it happened again, you wouldn't hear a peep from me about OSHA acting weird on it.

    "Ultima Online Pre-Trammel is the perfect example of why libertarians are full of shit."
    - @Ludious
    PA Lets Play Archive - Twitter - Blog (6/15/14)
  • So It GoesSo It Goes Do I have something on my face?Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Henroid wrote: »
    So It Goes wrote: »
    It's the first one to get attention because someone died. And that's unfortunate because if the earlier ones had gotten more attention maybe that person would not have died.

    I don't fault OSHA for wanting to take this shit seriously, even if all they can do is a tiny fine.
    Well I won't argue with you on any of that. I mean, think of how things went when airline disasters happened that prompted new regulations there, or mining, or railroad travel, etc.
    The idea is to keep it from ever happening again by setting a precedent and holding Walmart to its duties. If you give them a pass this time, next time they'll point it out and say "but you didn't do anything last time how we were supposed to know it was a violation of the rule!!"
    If that was Wal-Mart's reaction if it happened again, you wouldn't hear a peep from me about OSHA acting weird on it.

    Why do they get a pass on the first employee death? Whoops, first one's free or something?

    It's their reaction right now. "You never told us we could be fined for this! We shouldn't be fined cause we've never been fined before!" Yeah well it's kinda hard when this is the first time an employee death of this type happened.

    NOPE.
  • His CorkinessHis Corkiness Registered User
    edited July 2010
    Drain-O wrote: »
    That the OSHA fined them is admirable I guess, but near as I can tell it doesn't really change anything. For example, they have fined BP 760 times for safety violations, yet they are still the largest provider of fuel to the Pentagon. If the public at large was aware of this, I doubt they would want BP to continue getting their contracts from the US government.
    Was a pimp involved in any of those fines?

    Actually that isn't required, either. You just need someone to claim to have pretended to be a pimp.

  • emnmnmeemnmnme Heard about this on conservative radio:Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Magus` wrote: »
    Goddamn Wal*Mart not turning on their anti-unruly mob suppression machine. God

    The crowd gathered on Black Friday 2008 was frothing crazy, driven wild by the promise of cheap laptops. The crowd gathered on Black Friday 2009 was manageable. Small groups were allowed inside the store one at a time and there was a larger police presence.

    The mob could have been managed better in 2008. The store manager could have called for more police officers besides the two there that morning.

    easybossfight_zps4752c132.gif
  • delrolanddelroland Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Henroid wrote: »
    The idea is to keep it from ever happening again by setting a precedent and holding Walmart to its duties. If you give them a pass this time, next time they'll point it out and say "but you didn't do anything last time how we were supposed to know it was a violation of the rule!!"
    If that was Wal-Mart's reaction if it happened again, you wouldn't hear a peep from me about OSHA acting weird on it.

    That's not how OSHA works. They give a general mandate, "Keep your employees safe." When this mandate is violated, they punish the violating party so that all can understand why it was a violation, then they strive to educate all companies on how to improve their conditions so their workers don't fucking die.

    EVE: Online - the most fun you will ever have not playing a game.
    "Go up, thou bald head." -2 Kings 2:23
  • Magus`Magus` Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Someone said the doors were broken down, which isn't really something you'd expect.

    Or was that incorrect?

  • HenroidHenroid Nobody Nowhere fastRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    emnmnme wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    So OSHA's foot was down in the sense of "If anything bad happens to an employee, it's the employer's fault"? No matter what outside sources cause it? No matter the rarity or severity of any given circumstance?

    If it's something that the employer could foresee and should have taken steps to mitigate, then you're damn right it's the employer's fault.

    That's vague. If a customer goes crazy in the sports aisle and starts clonking employees with a golf club, you'd just say the golf clubs should have been kept under lock and key. It was preventable.

    The mob outside the doors went crazy on Black Friday 2008.

    Y'know, that reminds me of customer behavior - people do come into Wal-Mart, find some product on sale that's liquid, rip it open, spill some on the floor, and then lay down by it going "OH GOD MY BACK."

    Like literally. Happened in my store. Thankfully, cameras survey things and also they're too stupid to get any on their footwear to leave a streak on the floor pretending it actually happened.

    PEOPLE OF WAL-MART. <_<

    By the way. The Wal-Mart I worked at sold fire-arms in the sporting goods department. One guy on our nightshift crew was licensed to sell things there. Which wasn't often.

    "Ultima Online Pre-Trammel is the perfect example of why libertarians are full of shit."
    - @Ludious
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  • QuidQuid The Fifth Horseman Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Evander wrote: »
    In light of the regulations posted, I'm not standing behind walmart here anymore

    but just out of curiosity, how do you all think walmart could have prevented this (other than not opening)?

    Why would opening the store outweigh worker safety?

    PSN: allenquid
  • HenroidHenroid Nobody Nowhere fastRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Magus` wrote: »
    Someone said the doors were broken down, which isn't really something you'd expect.

    Or was that incorrect?

    In this particular case, he had to open the door with a key to unlock it, and as soon as that happened he was rushed. So it was preventable but I don't think anyone realized what would've happened.

    Now we know.

    If the doors were like, smashed down without anyone making an attempt to open them properly, this would've been a totally different ball game.

    "Ultima Online Pre-Trammel is the perfect example of why libertarians are full of shit."
    - @Ludious
    PA Lets Play Archive - Twitter - Blog (6/15/14)
  • delrolanddelroland Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Magus` wrote: »
    Someone said the doors were broken down, which isn't really something you'd expect.

    Or was that incorrect?

    Yeah, they broke down the doors, but management didn't set up any lines. They just let this huge mob congregate outside the front doors. Then the employees were directed to try to hold the doors closed as the mob pushed against it. That's when the door shattered, the employee was knocked over, and the crowd trampled him to death.

    EVE: Online - the most fun you will ever have not playing a game.
    "Go up, thou bald head." -2 Kings 2:23
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    emnmnme wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    So OSHA's foot was down in the sense of "If anything bad happens to an employee, it's the employer's fault"? No matter what outside sources cause it? No matter the rarity or severity of any given circumstance?

    If it's something that the employer could foresee and should have taken steps to mitigate, then you're damn right it's the employer's fault.

    That's vague. If a customer goes crazy in the sports aisle and starts clonking employees with a golf club, you'd just say the golf clubs should have been kept under lock and key. It was preventable.

    The mob outside the doors went crazy on Black Friday 2008.

    Wow. You sure showed that strawman.

    First off, there are ways to prevent a crowd waiting in front of a store for it to open from devolving into a mob. Setting up an employee and police-enforced queue is a simple yet effective tactic, for an example. Second, there's nothing saying that the store manager had to open the doors (unless Bentonville didn't give him or her the authority, which isn't exactly an unlikely scenario.)

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum
    Spoiler:
  • delrolanddelroland Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    NYT wrote:
    New York State’s largest grocery union, Local 1500 of the United Food and Commercial Workers, called the death of Mr. Damour “avoidable” and demanded investigations.

    “Where were the safety barriers?” said Bruce Both, the union president. “Where was security? How did store management not see dangerous numbers of customers barreling down on the store in such an unsafe manner? This is not just tragic; it rises to a level of blatant irresponsibility by Wal-Mart.”

    EVE: Online - the most fun you will ever have not playing a game.
    "Go up, thou bald head." -2 Kings 2:23
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Henroid wrote: »
    Magus` wrote: »
    Someone said the doors were broken down, which isn't really something you'd expect.

    Or was that incorrect?

    In this particular case, he had to open the door with a key to unlock it, and as soon as that happened he was rushed. So it was preventable but I don't think anyone realized what would've happened.

    Now we know.

    If the doors were like, smashed down without anyone making an attempt to open them properly, this would've been a totally different ball game.

    Walmart would still be at fault for letting the mob form in the first place.

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum
    Spoiler:
  • HenroidHenroid Nobody Nowhere fastRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    So It Goes wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    So It Goes wrote: »
    It's the first one to get attention because someone died. And that's unfortunate because if the earlier ones had gotten more attention maybe that person would not have died.

    I don't fault OSHA for wanting to take this shit seriously, even if all they can do is a tiny fine.
    Well I won't argue with you on any of that. I mean, think of how things went when airline disasters happened that prompted new regulations there, or mining, or railroad travel, etc.
    The idea is to keep it from ever happening again by setting a precedent and holding Walmart to its duties. If you give them a pass this time, next time they'll point it out and say "but you didn't do anything last time how we were supposed to know it was a violation of the rule!!"
    If that was Wal-Mart's reaction if it happened again, you wouldn't hear a peep from me about OSHA acting weird on it.

    Why do they get a pass on the first employee death? Whoops, first one's free or something?

    It's their reaction right now. "You never told us we could be fined for this! We shouldn't be fined cause we've never been fined before!" Yeah well it's kinda hard when this is the first time an employee death of this type happened.

    Well I'm not saying it's a pass on responsibility, I'm saying it's a pass on being fined in this manner. Didn't Wal-Mart pay out reparations (that doesn't sound like the right word...) to the family of the employee? Like, they were willing to take measures on the issue. Which, they'd have to do in any future event as well.

    I've got to admit, I'm feeling a bit ridiculous having to get so particular about things with this. Like I'm starting to feel like a major [silly goose].

    "Ultima Online Pre-Trammel is the perfect example of why libertarians are full of shit."
    - @Ludious
    PA Lets Play Archive - Twitter - Blog (6/15/14)
  • So It GoesSo It Goes Do I have something on my face?Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    OSHA holds people responsible by fining them.

    NOPE.
  • Magus`Magus` Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    How do you prevent a mob from forming? Like, people seem to assume all they had to do was put up signs that were like 'FORM LINE HERE'.

    I somehow doubt people would've followed.

  • HenroidHenroid Nobody Nowhere fastRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Henroid wrote: »
    Magus` wrote: »
    Someone said the doors were broken down, which isn't really something you'd expect.

    Or was that incorrect?

    In this particular case, he had to open the door with a key to unlock it, and as soon as that happened he was rushed. So it was preventable but I don't think anyone realized what would've happened.

    Now we know.

    If the doors were like, smashed down without anyone making an attempt to open them properly, this would've been a totally different ball game.

    Walmart would still be at fault for letting the mob form in the first place.

    Ehhhhhhhhhhhhh true.

    I think we discussed a couple years ago how they should've had crowd management outside making people form a line. That would've done fucking wonders.

    "Ultima Online Pre-Trammel is the perfect example of why libertarians are full of shit."
    - @Ludious
    PA Lets Play Archive - Twitter - Blog (6/15/14)
  • So It GoesSo It Goes Do I have something on my face?Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Magus` wrote: »
    How do you prevent a mob from forming? Like, people seem to assume all they had to do was put up signs that were like 'FORM LINE HERE'.

    I somehow doubt people would've followed.

    Cops, barriers, give out tickets with numbers?

    NOPE.
  • HenroidHenroid Nobody Nowhere fastRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Magus` wrote: »
    How do you prevent a mob from forming? Like, people seem to assume all they had to do was put up signs that were like 'FORM LINE HERE'.

    I somehow doubt people would've followed.

    ... Yeah actually. <_<

    And if people don't adhere to it, you get law enforcement involved.

    See, all this shit is weird for me because I'm not on any side of this issue in a concrete manner. I'm not cheering for Wal-Mart's head on the issue, but they sure as hell could've done things to prevent it.

    "Ultima Online Pre-Trammel is the perfect example of why libertarians are full of shit."
    - @Ludious
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  • Magus`Magus` Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Didn't they have cops?

    Either way, I'm not arguing that they should've done more. I'm saying I can see why they would fight a fine they feel isn't applicable.

  • delrolanddelroland Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Here's the NYT article paraphrased in the first page link. Mainly WalMart is fighting this because they don't want "crowd stampeding" to be considered a workplace hazard they are responsible in preventing, because if it were, and it happened again, WalMart could be fined $70,000.

    So fuck those guys.

    EDIT:
    Wal-Mart officials worry that if the OSHA Review Commission upholds the $7,000 penalty and concludes that surging crowds are an occupational hazard, then OSHA will then be free to look over Wal-Mart’s shoulder whenever it has a big sale to make sure that it has taken adequate steps to control crowds.

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  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Magus` wrote: »
    Didn't they have cops?

    Either way, I'm not arguing that they should've done more. I'm saying I can see why they would fight a fine they feel isn't applicable.

    Except it is applicable. It's been pointed out several times that the OSHA regulation states that employers have a duty to mitigate all foreseeable hazards. It has also been pointed out that by 2008, there had been several trampling incidents on Black Friday, some of which Walmart had been involved in. It has also been shown that crowd management techniques were not deployed by the staff, allowing the formation of the mob. Finally, the store was opened, even though the danger of the mob was clear.

    I don't see how anyone could construe that Walmart didn't fail abjectly in their duties.

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum
    Spoiler:
  • override367override367 Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    A lack of preparation for what? People literally breaking into the store? Does this mean if a WalMart gets robbed it's their fault because they don't have impenetrable security? This was in no way a normal situation, and WalMart is arguing the fact.

    You're not this much of a silly goose, so stop acting the part.

    Was it a normal situation? No.

    Was it a foreseeable situation? You're damn right it was.

    When the crowd was unruly at the Target I worked at the morning before the PS3 launch, the store manager made it clear that the store would not open if the crowd didn't become orderly, and had a police presence to back his words up

    XBLIVE: Biggestoverride
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  • HenroidHenroid Nobody Nowhere fastRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    A lack of preparation for what? People literally breaking into the store? Does this mean if a WalMart gets robbed it's their fault because they don't have impenetrable security? This was in no way a normal situation, and WalMart is arguing the fact.

    You're not this much of a silly goose, so stop acting the part.

    Was it a normal situation? No.

    Was it a foreseeable situation? You're damn right it was.

    When the crowd was unruly at the Target I worked at the morning before the PS3 launch, the store manager made it clear that the store would not open if the crowd didn't become orderly, and had a police presence to back his words up

    Says you, Nixon.

    "Ultima Online Pre-Trammel is the perfect example of why libertarians are full of shit."
    - @Ludious
    PA Lets Play Archive - Twitter - Blog (6/15/14)
  • PerpetualPerpetual Registered User
    edited July 2010
    On an unrelated note, why do we never have any threads talking about the awesome stuff that companies and corporations do?

  • So It GoesSo It Goes Do I have something on my face?Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Perpetual wrote: »
    On an unrelated note, why do we never have any threads talking about the awesome stuff that companies and corporations do?

    Feel free to make one!

    NOPE.
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