Our new Indie Games subforum is now open for business in G&T. Go and check it out, you might land a code for a free game. If you're developing an indie game and want to post about it, follow these directions. If you don't, he'll break your legs! Hahaha! Seriously though.
Our rules have been updated and given their own forum. Go and look at them! They are nice, and there may be new ones that you didn't know about! Hooray for rules! Hooray for The System! Hooray for Conforming!

Walmart Spends $2M To Save $7K (Or, Why Regulations Do Matter)

12467

Posts

  • variantvariant Registered User
    edited July 2010
    Hey guys, guess who owns these corporations? Shareholders. Who are they? Your parents and everyone else you know. Maybe if we invested more responsibly, instead of just throwing money in to whatever your 401k advisor is saying or what's most profitable, this kind of shit wouldn't happen.

    The greedier we are as a society, the worse our corporations will be.

  • emnmnmeemnmnme Heard about this on conservative radio:Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    delroland wrote: »
    Here's the NYT article paraphrased in the first page link. Mainly WalMart is fighting this because they don't want "crowd stampeding" to be considered a workplace hazard they are responsible in preventing, because if it were, and it happened again, WalMart could be fined $70,000.

    So fuck those guys.

    EDIT:
    Wal-Mart officials worry that if the OSHA Review Commission upholds the $7,000 penalty and concludes that surging crowds are an occupational hazard, then OSHA will then be free to look over Wal-Mart’s shoulder whenever it has a big sale to make sure that it has taken adequate steps to control crowds.

    What does looking over Wal-Mart's shoulder even mean? Is Wal-Mart afraid they'll be banned from having Black Friday sales in crowds exceed 2,000 waiting customers? Are they afraid OSHA won't let them advertise big sales in the paper for fear of drawing unruly crowds?

    easybossfight_zps4752c132.gif
  • HenroidHenroid Nobody Nowhere fastRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    variant wrote: »
    Hey guys, guess who owns these corporations? Shareholders. Who are they? Your parents and everyone else you know. Maybe if we invested more responsibly, instead of just throwing money in to whatever your 401k advisor is saying or what's most profitable, this kind of shit wouldn't happen.

    The greedier we are as a society, the worse our corporations will be.

    Don't be absurd, the free market can never fail, and this is exactly what [STRIKE]Jesus would want[/STRIKE] JESUS DIED FOR YOUR SINS.

    "Ultima Online Pre-Trammel is the perfect example of why libertarians are full of shit."
    - @Ludious
    PA Lets Play Archive - Twitter - Blog (6/15/14)
  • ShadowfireShadowfire Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    So It Goes wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    In light of the regulations posted, I'm not standing behind walmart here anymore

    but just out of curiosity, how do you all think walmart could have prevented this (other than not opening)?

    Mob gets that unruly, don't open the store until order is restored by cops. Get your employees out of there until order is restored by cops. Don't let your employees stand in a Red Rover line while a crowd comes busting through the doors.

    Cops were there and helping. Barricades were up.

    delroland wrote: »
    Magus` wrote: »
    Someone said the doors were broken down, which isn't really something you'd expect.

    Or was that incorrect?

    Yeah, they broke down the doors, but management didn't set up any lines. They just let this huge mob congregate outside the front doors. Then the employees were directed to try to hold the doors closed as the mob pushed against it. That's when the door shattered, the employee was knocked over, and the crowd trampled him to death.

    Barricades were fucking set up.

    I'm quoting myself in the spoiler...
    Spoiler:

    steam_sig.png
    WiiU: Windrunner ; Guild Wars 2: Shadowfire.3940 ; PSN: Bradcopter
  • So It GoesSo It Goes Do I have something on my face?Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Okay so your barricades aren't working and you don't have enough cops.

    Get your workers out of harm's way, don't send them to open the doors and set off the bomb.

    "Taking any precaution" isn't the standard. Taking the necessary precautions is.

    NOPE.
  • ShadowfireShadowfire Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    That's ridiculous. If the police working with Wal-Mart believed that the precautions taken were enough, and the barricades were enough, then why would Wal-Mart question that? It stands to reason that the police should have at least some training (maybe experience) with crowd control. I would argue that Wal-Mart took the necessary precautions based on the professional advice they received, and I don't believe that any reasonable person before that morning would have thought they needed more.

    steam_sig.png
    WiiU: Windrunner ; Guild Wars 2: Shadowfire.3940 ; PSN: Bradcopter
  • So It GoesSo It Goes Do I have something on my face?Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    That's ridiculous. If the police working with Wal-Mart believed that the precautions taken were enough, and the barricades were enough, then why would Wal-Mart question that? It stands to reason that the police should have at least some training (maybe experience) with crowd control. I would argue that Wal-Mart took the necessary precautions based on the professional advice they received, and I don't believe that any reasonable person before that morning would have thought they needed more.

    Kay! Some people disagree with that! Including the family of the dead employee who was trampled.

    NOPE.
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    So It Goes wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    In light of the regulations posted, I'm not standing behind walmart here anymore

    but just out of curiosity, how do you all think walmart could have prevented this (other than not opening)?

    Mob gets that unruly, don't open the store until order is restored by cops. Get your employees out of there until order is restored by cops. Don't let your employees stand in a Red Rover line while a crowd comes busting through the doors.

    Cops were there and helping. Barricades were up.

    delroland wrote: »
    Magus` wrote: »
    Someone said the doors were broken down, which isn't really something you'd expect.

    Or was that incorrect?

    Yeah, they broke down the doors, but management didn't set up any lines. They just let this huge mob congregate outside the front doors. Then the employees were directed to try to hold the doors closed as the mob pushed against it. That's when the door shattered, the employee was knocked over, and the crowd trampled him to death.

    Barricades were fucking set up.

    I'm quoting myself in the spoiler...
    Spoiler:

    First off, other contemporary reports note that no cops were present.
    That seemed the case early Friday at the Green Acres Mall in Valley Stream, on Long Island, where the Nassau County police had to be called in for crowd control about 3 a.m., and an officer with a bullhorn pleaded for order.

    Tension grew as the 5 a.m. opening neared. By 4:55, with no police officers in sight, the crowd of more than 2,000 had become a rabble, and could be held back no longer. Fists banged and shoulders pressed on the sliding-glass double doors, which bowed in with the weight of the assault.

    Second, barricades are not, on their own, enough. Crowd management is not just about putting physical barriers, but about managing the crowd's mindset and expectations. This was not done.

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum
    Spoiler:
  • Mr. PokeylopeMr. Pokeylope Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    That's ridiculous. If the police working with Wal-Mart believed that the precautions taken were enough, and the barricades were enough, then why would Wal-Mart question that? It stands to reason that the police should have at least some training (maybe experience) with crowd control. I would argue that Wal-Mart took the necessary precautions based on the professional advice they received, and I don't believe that any reasonable person before that morning would have thought they needed more.

    Except that the article you quoted doesn't say what your claiming. Working with the police doesn't mean any were on site or that the police had inspected the set up of the store prior to opening or that Wal-mart received or followed any advice given them by the police.

    Aren't you a cop? I'm curious because would the police really advise you to use a human chain to slow a surging crowd? Especially with people not train to deal with the situation?

  • Hockey JohnstonHockey Johnston Registered User
    edited July 2010
    I never understand where people get the idea that if you've consulted with the right lawyer or expert that your legal liability has somehow been altered.

    Ask any club owner. You don't get covered just because you asked a cop/lawyer if your security was 'enough'. You are obligated to make sure people don't get hurt or your ass is definitely going to get litigated.

  • EvanderEvander Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    I never understand where people get the idea that if you've consulted with the right lawyer or expert that your legal liability has somehow been altered.

    Ask any club owner. You don't get covered just because you asked a cop/lawyer if your security was 'enough'. You are obligated to make sure people don't get hurt or your ass is definitely going to get litigated.

    Walmart isn't ignoring all responsibility. Settling with the injured and the families of the deceased has already been done.

    This battle has to do with OSHA regulations. I'm not entirely sure how I feel about it, but it is a whole different beast.

    georgersig.jpg
  • lonelyahavalonelyahava One day, I will be able to say to myself "I am beautiful and I am perfect just the way I am"Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    I don't know how I feel about it either.

    And I work for Walmart.

    On one hand, take the damned company for all that they're worth. OSHA doesn't even begin to touch the surface as far as fining walmart for most things that they should.

    On the other hand, the more money that the company has to pay out for stuff like this, the less money i see in my bonus (not that it matters because my store sucks so damn bad that we don't even qualify for a bonus on our own merit, let alone the company's).

    Should Walmart be fined? Hell yes. Have they already paid damages/restitutions/etc? Yes, I believe that they have. Is OSHA behind on the times? Yes, slightly.


    I'm still waiting on my settlement check from the 'forcing workers to work off the clock/forgo breaks and shorten lunches' class action suit from last year sometime. Don't remember how much that settlement was going to be, but i think it was like $200/person or something, and it affected about 13 different states.

    My Little Corner of the World || I am ravelried! || My Steam!
    You have to fight through some bad days, to earn the best days of your life.
  • delrolanddelroland Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    And I work for Walmart.

    Get out while you can.
    Spoiler:

    EVE: Online - the most fun you will ever have not playing a game.
    "Go up, thou bald head." -2 Kings 2:23
  • themightypuckthemightypuck MontanaRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    I'm still waiting on my settlement check from the 'forcing workers to work off the clock/forgo breaks and shorten lunches' class action suit from last year sometime. Don't remember how much that settlement was going to be, but i think it was like $200/person or something, and it affected about 13 different states.

    So I'm guessing they actually do that shit. Sucks.

    “Reject your sense of injury and the injury itself disappears.”
    ― Marcus Aurelius
  • ShadowfireShadowfire Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    I'm still waiting on my settlement check from the 'forcing workers to work off the clock/forgo breaks and shorten lunches' class action suit from last year sometime. Don't remember how much that settlement was going to be, but i think it was like $200/person or something, and it affected about 13 different states.

    So I'm guessing they actually do that shit. Sucks.

    Some do, because the management at those stores are assholes. The two in this area both demand that workers not work off the clock. If a customer asks them a question while they're off the clock they are required to say "I'm sorry, but I'm off the clock right now." Helping that customer can get them into serious trouble.

    steam_sig.png
    WiiU: Windrunner ; Guild Wars 2: Shadowfire.3940 ; PSN: Bradcopter
  • BrainleechBrainleech Registered User regular
    edited July 2010


    I'm still waiting on my settlement check from the 'forcing workers to work off the clock/forgo breaks and shorten lunches' class action suit from last year sometime. Don't remember how much that settlement was going to be, but i think it was like $200/person or something, and it affected about 13 different states.

    I am getting $5

    My quarterly bonus tanked from 200+ to less then 20 in the last year the bosses are very cryptic and vauge when asked why one muttered something about they changed the rules and will answer anything else when pressed further
    One guy said at the last one when we were getting $17 "This is not enough to buy weed!" I just hung my head in shame because I work with a sex offender whom we have to watch and make sure he behaves and some real losers


    I will answer questions if I am off the clock and heading to the door if someone asks

    But things like this are a problem where I work
    Picture31.jpg
    Picture32.jpg

    Yes it's a pile of trash I have no idea what is going on but there are days it piles but and no one picks it up

    A.jpg
  • bowenbowen Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Personally I think the people involved with the trampling should be held liable. Come on, you're human beings, knock that nonsense off.

    But holy shit, what is with that pile of trash leech?

  • BrainleechBrainleech Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    I have no idea it's trash things like roasted chicken, other deli stuff, general trash and I have no idea what some of it is but does it ever smell

    A.jpg
  • lonelyahavalonelyahava One day, I will be able to say to myself "I am beautiful and I am perfect just the way I am"Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Yeah, our trash situation is getting a bit out of control. I work in Produce and we're not allowed to use the compactor anymore. we were taking it out back to the dumpster and tossing it into the dumpster (7 feet high).

    But then the holiday messed with the garbage collection or something and the dumpster didn't get emptied. So now we're putting the trash out to the side. Which is great when yuo have to take it out the grocery receiving doors and walk to the dumpster down my GM receiving (across the back of the store for those not familiar). Even more fun doing that in downpouring rain and lightning.


    Yes, I've forgone my breaks (i did last night) in order to get work done, yes I will help a customer if i'm off the clock and heading to the door if they ask a simple question.

    Delro-- I'm getting out at the end of the year. I'm moving to new Zealand in Feb and Walmart can't hold me any longer than that! mwahahahah!!

    My Little Corner of the World || I am ravelried! || My Steam!
    You have to fight through some bad days, to earn the best days of your life.
  • NotYouNotYou Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    bowen wrote: »
    Personally I think the people involved with the trampling should be held liable. Come on, you're human beings, knock that nonsense off.

    Unfortunately the people who see a fallen person in front of them cannot stop no matter how much they might want to. That's how crowd surges work. The back pushes. You either move with them or you're trampled. Walmart employees should have run away rather than try to stop them...

  • HenroidHenroid Nobody Nowhere fastRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Brainleech wrote: »
    But things like this are a problem where I work
    Picture31.jpg
    Picture32.jpg

    Yes it's a pile of trash I have no idea what is going on but there are days it piles but and no one picks it up

    What the fucking fuck, don't people know how to throw trash down the goddamn compactor chute?

    We didn't have that problem at my store. The only big problems we faced in the back of the store was 1) the cardboard bale maker, in that nobody would fucking make a bale and 2) the overstock area was a goddamn mess. We had changed over to a scan in + out system when I was working there, and for some reason someone during the day was wiping the section for my aisle off the computer system. Like, only my aisle. It was the start of some day time vs. night time bullshit.

    "Ultima Online Pre-Trammel is the perfect example of why libertarians are full of shit."
    - @Ludious
    PA Lets Play Archive - Twitter - Blog (6/15/14)
  • bowenbowen Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    They were probably stealing something.

  • EvanderEvander Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    NotYou wrote: »
    bowen wrote: »
    Personally I think the people involved with the trampling should be held liable. Come on, you're human beings, knock that nonsense off.

    Unfortunately the people who see a fallen person in front of them cannot stop no matter how much they might want to. That's how crowd surges work. The back pushes. You either move with them or you're trampled. Walmart employees should have run away rather than try to stop them...

    pushing in the first place is incredibly dangerous is kind of the point. it's kind of like firing a gun wildly in to a crowd. sure, you aren't aiming for anybody, but you still could kill them

    georgersig.jpg
  • delrolanddelroland Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Yes, I've forgone my breaks (i did last night) in order to get work done, yes I will help a customer if i'm off the clock and heading to the door if they ask a simple question.

    And this is why I hate WalMart, because they expect their employees to do shit like this. In California, if you don't get a break? Bonus hour of regular pay. Help a customer when you're off the clock? No, you were really on the clock, and management has to change it. Of course, WalMart banks on the ignorance of employees, that they will be to scared to report violations like these, and that is how WalMart gets away with it.

    WalMart does everything it can to fuck over its employees just so they can make a teensy bit more profit in the short term. Oh, and if you unionize? They close the whole fucking store.

    EVE: Online - the most fun you will ever have not playing a game.
    "Go up, thou bald head." -2 Kings 2:23
  • programjunkieprogramjunkie Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Magus` wrote: »
    How do you prevent a mob from forming? Like, people seem to assume all they had to do was put up signs that were like 'FORM LINE HERE'.

    I somehow doubt people would've followed.

    Even if it were impossible, which it isn't, then the correct thing would be not to hold Black Friday sales if they prevent an unmitigated danger to employees. Surely no one here would condone a "bring your improvised explosive device to shop and get 50% any order of $100 or more" sale? That's taking it to the absurd, but it still demonstrates that some promotions are too inherently risky to allow regardless of the cautions taken.
    delroland wrote: »
    Here's the NYT article paraphrased in the first page link. Mainly WalMart is fighting this because they don't want "crowd stampeding" to be considered a workplace hazard they are responsible in preventing, because if it were, and it happened again, WalMart could be fined $70,000.

    So fuck those guys.

    EDIT:
    Wal-Mart officials worry that if the OSHA Review Commission upholds the $7,000 penalty and concludes that surging crowds are an occupational hazard, then OSHA will then be free to look over Wal-Mart’s shoulder whenever it has a big sale to make sure that it has taken adequate steps to control crowds.

    Yeah. If they are spending $2 mil to avoid potential $70K fines, the only conclusion is that they intend to kill multiple workers through bad policy in the future, or they aren't addressing it from a cost / benefit perspective and feel they have a right to kill employees through bad policy. Neither looks good for them.

  • EvanderEvander Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Magus` wrote: »
    How do you prevent a mob from forming? Like, people seem to assume all they had to do was put up signs that were like 'FORM LINE HERE'.

    I somehow doubt people would've followed.

    Even if it were impossible, which it isn't, then the correct thing would be not to hold Black Friday sales if they prevent an unmitigated danger to employees. Surely no one here would condone a "bring your improvised explosive device to shop and get 50% any order of $100 or more" sale? That's taking it to the absurd, but it still demonstrates that some promotions are too inherently risky to allow regardless of the cautions taken.
    delroland wrote: »
    Here's the NYT article paraphrased in the first page link. Mainly WalMart is fighting this because they don't want "crowd stampeding" to be considered a workplace hazard they are responsible in preventing, because if it were, and it happened again, WalMart could be fined $70,000.

    So fuck those guys.

    EDIT:
    Wal-Mart officials worry that if the OSHA Review Commission upholds the $7,000 penalty and concludes that surging crowds are an occupational hazard, then OSHA will then be free to look over Wal-Mart’s shoulder whenever it has a big sale to make sure that it has taken adequate steps to control crowds.

    Yeah. If they are spending $2 mil to avoid potential $70K fines, the only conclusion is that they intend to kill multiple workers through bad policy in the future, or they aren't addressing it from a cost / benefit perspective and feel they have a right to kill employees through bad policy. Neither looks good for them.

    wallmart didn't get to big so big by being stupid with their money

    georgersig.jpg
  • King RiptorKing Riptor Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    I don't know how I feel about it either.

    And I work for Walmart.

    On one hand, take the damned company for all that they're worth. OSHA doesn't even begin to touch the surface as far as fining walmart for most things that they should.

    On the other hand, the more money that the company has to pay out for stuff like this, the less money i see in my bonus (not that it matters because my store sucks so damn bad that we don't even qualify for a bonus on our own merit, let alone the company's).

    Should Walmart be fined? Hell yes. Have they already paid damages/restitutions/etc? Yes, I believe that they have. Is OSHA behind on the times? Yes, slightly.


    I'm still waiting on my settlement check from the 'forcing workers to work off the clock/forgo breaks and shorten lunches' class action suit from last year sometime. Don't remember how much that settlement was going to be, but i think it was like $200/person or something, and it affected about 13 different states.

    Man I'm waiting for that check from 4 years ago. It's pretty much Dukew nukem forever at this point

    I no longer work for purgatory mart but I will say at my store safety was maybe tenth to cowtowing to customer demands. So yeah OSHA might be a little late

  • Loren MichaelLoren Michael Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    A lack of preparation for what? People literally breaking into the store? Does this mean if a WalMart gets robbed it's their fault because they don't have impenetrable security? This was in no way a normal situation, and WalMart is arguing the fact.

    You're not this much of a silly goose, so stop acting the part.

    Was it a normal situation? No.

    Was it a foreseeable situation? You're damn right it was.

    The crowd busting down doors was a foreseeable situation?

    2ezikn6.jpg
  • King RiptorKing Riptor Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Evander wrote: »
    Magus` wrote: »
    How do you prevent a mob from forming? Like, people seem to assume all they had to do was put up signs that were like 'FORM LINE HERE'.

    I somehow doubt people would've followed.

    Even if it were impossible, which it isn't, then the correct thing would be not to hold Black Friday sales if they prevent an unmitigated danger to employees. Surely no one here would condone a "bring your improvised explosive device to shop and get 50% any order of $100 or more" sale? That's taking it to the absurd, but it still demonstrates that some promotions are too inherently risky to allow regardless of the cautions taken.
    delroland wrote: »
    Here's the NYT article paraphrased in the first page link. Mainly WalMart is fighting this because they don't want "crowd stampeding" to be considered a workplace hazard they are responsible in preventing, because if it were, and it happened again, WalMart could be fined $70,000.

    So fuck those guys.

    EDIT:
    Wal-Mart officials worry that if the OSHA Review Commission upholds the $7,000 penalty and concludes that surging crowds are an occupational hazard, then OSHA will then be free to look over Wal-Mart’s shoulder whenever it has a big sale to make sure that it has taken adequate steps to control crowds.

    Yeah. If they are spending $2 mil to avoid potential $70K fines, the only conclusion is that they intend to kill multiple workers through bad policy in the future, or they aren't addressing it from a cost / benefit perspective and feel they have a right to kill employees through bad policy. Neither looks good for them.

    wallmart didn't get to big so big by being stupid with their money

    They are incredibly stupid with their money.

    They got so big because Sam Walton was actually competent and for the most part treated his employees as people . His death pretty much marked the end of the company and the beginning of a shithole that looks at Coal Labor camps of the early 20th century with teary eyes and says " Man those guys were geniuses" .

  • lonelyahavalonelyahava One day, I will be able to say to myself "I am beautiful and I am perfect just the way I am"Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    See, I get where you're coming from with the righteous Anger, Delro. And you have every right to be that way. And I probably should report every time I've helped a customer off the clock. But most of the time, it's thirty seconds here, thirty seconds there, and eh.

    I don't mind trying to get my work done correctly. I work in a fresh area, if I don't do my cleaning properly in the back, then I could (in theory) get somebody sick.

    Here's my biggest problem, I've worked for 2 walmarts, one in maine and one here in delaware. And here's my issue so far, there is absolutely NO consistency from store to store. On the big stuff, sure. But the little things (haha little things) like the cleaning procedures? Up in Maine, it was the LAW. You did your 5 Steps (tm). Down here... Eh. If you get around to it, go for it. But you don't really need to do all 5... Even just one is a good thing.

    I won't even go into just what the USDA/FDA would say/think if they came back through our area..... Just, gross. I'm doing what I can to keep the place clean, but I'm working against a huge handicap.

    I just tell myself its only for 5 more months...

    My Little Corner of the World || I am ravelried! || My Steam!
    You have to fight through some bad days, to earn the best days of your life.
  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    A lack of preparation for what? People literally breaking into the store? Does this mean if a WalMart gets robbed it's their fault because they don't have impenetrable security? This was in no way a normal situation, and WalMart is arguing the fact.

    You're not this much of a silly goose, so stop acting the part.

    Was it a normal situation? No.

    Was it a foreseeable situation? You're damn right it was.

    The crowd busting down doors was a foreseeable situation?

    Yes? Its not like it hadn't happened before.

  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    They got so big because Sam Walton was actually competent and for the most part treated his employees as people . His death pretty much marked the end of the company and the beginning of a shithole that looks at Coal Labor camps of the early 20th century with teary eyes and says " Man those guys were geniuses" .

    Yeah, no. Walton created the Walmart environment.
    The story isn't part of the official Wal-Mart creation epic, but it tells us almost all we need to know about the company's approach to the interests of its employees and the laws of the nation. Around the time that the young Sam Walton opened his first stores, John Kennedy redeemed a presidential campaign promise by persuading Congress to extend the minimum wage to retail workers, who had until then not been covered by the law. Congress granted an exclusion, however, to small businesses with annual sales beneath $1 million -- a figure that in 1965 it lowered to $250,000.

    Walton was furious. The mechanization of agriculture had finally reached the backwaters of the Ozark Plateau, where he was opening one store after another. The men and women who had formerly worked on small farms suddenly found themselves redundant, and he could scoop them up for a song, as little as 50 cents an hour. Now the goddamn federal government was telling him he had to pay his workers the $1.15 hourly minimum. Walton's response was to divide up his stores into individual companies whose revenues didn't exceed the $250,000 threshold. Eventually, though, a federal court ruled that this was simply a scheme to avoid paying the minimum wage, and he was ordered to pay his workers the accumulated sums he owed them, plus a double-time penalty thrown in for good measure.

    Wal-Mart cut the checks, but Walton also summoned the employees at a major cluster of his stores to a meeting. "I'll fire anyone who cashes the check," he told them.

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum
    Spoiler:
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    A lack of preparation for what? People literally breaking into the store? Does this mean if a WalMart gets robbed it's their fault because they don't have impenetrable security? This was in no way a normal situation, and WalMart is arguing the fact.

    You're not this much of a silly goose, so stop acting the part.

    Was it a normal situation? No.

    Was it a foreseeable situation? You're damn right it was.

    The crowd busting down doors was a foreseeable situation?

    Yes, it was. Read the thread for an explanation.

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum
    Spoiler:
  • TurkeyTurkey Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Walmart might have been somewhat negligent, but retroactive fines are unnecessary.

    zkVyf.png
  • ronzoronzo Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Turkey wrote: »
    Walmart might have been somewhat negligent, but retroactive fines are unnecessary.

    just going to waltz in without reading the rest of the thread or supporting your opinion huh?

  • TurkeyTurkey Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Retroactive fines are unnecessary because they are the beginning of a very slippery slope. The fact that OSHA has improved their rules regarding safety should be deterrent for Walmart and other businesses to improve safety measures. There's probably an analogy involving law legislation in there somewhere.

    So yeah, retroactive fines are as unnecessary as your snarkyness. :P

    zkVyf.png
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Turkey wrote: »
    Retroactive fines are unnecessary because they are the beginning of a very slippery slope. The fact that OSHA has improved their rules regarding safety should be deterrent for Walmart and other businesses to improve safety measures. There's probably an analogy involving law legislation in there somewhere.

    So yeah, retroactive fines are as unnecessary as your snarkyness. :P


    Good thing these fines aren't retroactive then, huh?

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum
    Spoiler:
  • Loren MichaelLoren Michael Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    First off, other contemporary reports note that no cops were present.
    That seemed the case early Friday at the Green Acres Mall in Valley Stream, on Long Island, where the Nassau County police had to be called in for crowd control about 3 a.m., and an officer with a bullhorn pleaded for order.

    Tension grew as the 5 a.m. opening neared. By 4:55, with no police officers in sight, the crowd of more than 2,000 had become a rabble, and could be held back no longer. Fists banged and shoulders pressed on the sliding-glass double doors, which bowed in with the weight of the assault.

    This seems like a problem of police incompetence or lack of resources, and the individual members of the mob more than anything. The police were called... where did they go?

    2ezikn6.jpg
  • TurkeyTurkey Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Turkey wrote: »
    Retroactive fines are unnecessary because they are the beginning of a very slippery slope. The fact that OSHA has improved their rules regarding safety should be deterrent for Walmart and other businesses to improve safety measures. There's probably an analogy involving law legislation in there somewhere.

    So yeah, retroactive fines are as unnecessary as your snarkyness. :P


    Good thing these fines aren't retroactive then, huh?

    But according to the very first article in the thread, they are. The article you posted.

    zkVyf.png
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Turkey wrote: »
    Turkey wrote: »
    Retroactive fines are unnecessary because they are the beginning of a very slippery slope. The fact that OSHA has improved their rules regarding safety should be deterrent for Walmart and other businesses to improve safety measures. There's probably an analogy involving law legislation in there somewhere.

    So yeah, retroactive fines are as unnecessary as your snarkyness. :P


    Good thing these fines aren't retroactive then, huh?

    But according to the very first article in the thread, they are. The article you posted.

    Care to point out where the article says exactly that?

    By the way, you might want to actually read the thread - the argument you're trying to make was argued and debunked in it.

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum
    Spoiler:
Sign In or Register to comment.