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Muslims vs america [national burn the quaran day] cancelled by the pastor]
Tommatt
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Sorry if I offended anybody by spelling qua ran wrong. My spelling is bad so excused the typos. Also, did not see a topic on this, searched, found nothing and started a new topic.
So, this topic is about national burn the qua ran day, and the whole redneck agenda against mu slims.
This is fucked up. I am a proud member of the military, and I joined not just to get a career field and education, I joined to protect our constitution, which says, FREEDOM OF RELIGION.
I was in boot camp with many Muslims who would have fought side by side me, and many did. I was fortunate to be in the navy during Iraqi freedom/Enduring Freedom. Protest it if you want, but I served, side by side, with Muslims.
I joined to protect and guarantee our constitution. While it may have its faults, as does our country, after living in many countries, trust me, theres no place better. We are privileged, yet we don't understand it.
Burn the Quran day is a racist move. All the mosque site burnings, racist moves. There is no such thing as an African American, Asian American, Mexican American, WE ARE ALL AMERICANS. And these protests/acts of violence are hate crimes. Nothing more. It may be insensitive to build a mosque near ground zero, but god dammit, I joined to protect their rights.
Islam is not our problem. The problem is the extremists. Guest what, ever religion has them. The crusades anybody?
All national burn the qua ran day does is endanger our troops. Whether you agree or protest the war, you must support the troops. They took a job to defend you whenever japan invades during WW2. the point is, they joined for an education, benefits, support the constitution, and guess what, if shit hits the fan, their asses are protecting you. Many of them do not believe what they are fighting for. But they do it. And if shit hit the fan and WW3 started, they'd be the ones protection your asses. Are you a christian/catholic/Jehovah's witness? They allow you to practice that religion.
So whats wrong with Muslims? A few bad apples seriously makes them all bad? This shit makes me sick, and sad to be an american who served in the armed forces to protect their rights as AMERICANS! There is only American, African American is an outdated term IMO, just like anybody else who isn't white. There are people of all colors out there supporting you're right to be free.
And a few ignorant fucks want to go and ruin it for the rest of us. Just like the reason I was scared for obama to be in office, I figured one red neck fuck ( I'm white, and white trash as can be) would assassinate him because he was black and set our country back 60 years.
Isn't that what we're doing with our hate towards Muslims? I'm all for tea parties and what have you, but the worse of the worse is what the rest of the world sees.
And national burn a Quran day makes us look bad. And who will pay? Our troops.
So, this topic is about national burn the qua ran day, and the whole redneck agenda against mu slims.
This is fucked up. I am a proud member of the military, and I joined not just to get a career field and education, I joined to protect our constitution, which says, FREEDOM OF RELIGION.
I was in boot camp with many Muslims who would have fought side by side me, and many did. I was fortunate to be in the navy during Iraqi freedom/Enduring Freedom. Protest it if you want, but I served, side by side, with Muslims.
I joined to protect and guarantee our constitution. While it may have its faults, as does our country, after living in many countries, trust me, theres no place better. We are privileged, yet we don't understand it.
Burn the Quran day is a racist move. All the mosque site burnings, racist moves. There is no such thing as an African American, Asian American, Mexican American, WE ARE ALL AMERICANS. And these protests/acts of violence are hate crimes. Nothing more. It may be insensitive to build a mosque near ground zero, but god dammit, I joined to protect their rights.
Islam is not our problem. The problem is the extremists. Guest what, ever religion has them. The crusades anybody?
All national burn the qua ran day does is endanger our troops. Whether you agree or protest the war, you must support the troops. They took a job to defend you whenever japan invades during WW2. the point is, they joined for an education, benefits, support the constitution, and guess what, if shit hits the fan, their asses are protecting you. Many of them do not believe what they are fighting for. But they do it. And if shit hit the fan and WW3 started, they'd be the ones protection your asses. Are you a christian/catholic/Jehovah's witness? They allow you to practice that religion.
So whats wrong with Muslims? A few bad apples seriously makes them all bad? This shit makes me sick, and sad to be an american who served in the armed forces to protect their rights as AMERICANS! There is only American, African American is an outdated term IMO, just like anybody else who isn't white. There are people of all colors out there supporting you're right to be free.
And a few ignorant fucks want to go and ruin it for the rest of us. Just like the reason I was scared for obama to be in office, I figured one red neck fuck ( I'm white, and white trash as can be) would assassinate him because he was black and set our country back 60 years.
Isn't that what we're doing with our hate towards Muslims? I'm all for tea parties and what have you, but the worse of the worse is what the rest of the world sees.
And national burn a Quran day makes us look bad. And who will pay? Our troops.
Tommatt on
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I was told several times in the military (not by anyone important) that only christians should be able to join the military for security reasons and other such bullshit. Really, there are idiots everywhere and something like this is not at all surprising or upsetting to me anymore.
And I'll fully put it out there, even though we found no WoMD, taking sadam out was the right thing to do. To me its like going back in time and killing hitler. It turns out he was bluffing, but he was commiting genocide on his people. I know we have problems here, and understand focusing on the usa instead of getting into other peoples problems, but I believe in human rights also...
We are not at war with religion and we shouldn't be ( I belive in a god but hate religion BTW. Religion has caused more deaths than any other causes. Every reliigion belives in the basic same things. )
These idiots back home have it easy, and don't see how it affects our troops who are elsewhere. WHETHER YOU THINK THEY SHOULD BE THERE OR NOT, THIS IS NOT THE TOPIC!!!! THIS TOPIC IS ABOUT WHAT WE DO AS AMERICANS AND HOW IT AFFECTS THE OUTLOOK ON US ALL. Nor is it about the invasion of IRAQ, or AFGHANISTAN (even though I put out some thoughts on the matter)
It makes us look as hateful as many other parts of the world, and its not a big surprise that alot of middle easterners look down on us. honestly, like the cab driver death in NY, and the mosque burning site in TN, it makes me ashamed to be an american. And it makes me ashamed to have served in the millitary.
I disapprove with burning books, but am fine with organised displays of sacrilege.
I would also disagree, entirely that burning copies of religious texts even remotely approaches hate crimes. As for being racist, well, some of the book burners may be racist against people of Middle Eastern appearance, but Muslim is not a race.
Lastly, saying the problem is not religion but extremists is nonsense, the former is intimately involved with causing the latter.
Sorry, I have an 8th grade spelling level
I say that reflexively when people start a big post that way. And spelling things with z's is what the worst colonies do.
Right click, auto spell, gave me a whole different spellings for it. Thats why I said in the first sentience I hope I don't offend anybody by spelling Quran wrong. But we're all American, besides you bass akwards people from other countries
This is why we can't have nice things, and the world hates us
It's putting a word into an alphabet it didn't originate in. Thus spelling is at best phonetic and at worst a guess.
Specific interpretations of religion are the problem. You can't generalize all of Islam with the violent, extremist versions. Burning Qur'ans does precisely that.
A common refrain I've heard from some Americans is "Where are all the moderate Muslims? Who can we engage with?" Then we have a moderate Muslim trying to build an Islamic community center in NYC.
Our response? Qur'an burnings and protests. Or basically, "Shut up and sit down!"
Five minutes later, "Where are all the moderate Muslims?"
:x
This is an incomplete sentence and bad grammar. Should I start calling everybody trolls and get you all jailed.
Post on the fucking topic
And yes I've been abit OT in some of my posts, but its been oh my beliefs and feelings on what the OP was about, not making fun of somebody whos a bad speller. You are the problem with the world. Would you like me to make fun of you or kick your ass because you're fat?
I am free to burn flags, and free to burn holy books. I am also free to get a variable level of pissed off at various religions.
Frankly the Muslims can get pissed about book burning when they apologize for burning the Great Library and Alexandria. To quote Caliph Omar
Yes I went there.
You seem a little high-strung to have guns and athority and stuff.
You went............back in time? WOOT TIME TRAVEL
But more seriously, sure, they're free to burn books. That doesn't mean it's a good idea (and in this case, it's definitely an expression of xenophobia fueled by ignorance).
In fact, it does absolutely nothing good for America. It undermines our long-term goals (building bridges with Muslims globally) and undermines our short term security (removes America's moral authority and provokes attacks).
I joined the millitary to support your right to be ignorant if you choose, not to stab a cab driver because hes muslim
Chill. People constantly insult each other here. Just tune it out and focus on the debate at hand. It's a good topic and the conversation promises to be interesting.
And, to be fair "Shut up and sit down!" is my position for everyone religious, including Muslims. So, that's not a downside.
The downside is that removing concepts from the intellectual sphere is bad. The Koran is culturally interesting and useful anthropologically and scientifically. Even though we should disparage it at every turn for its frankly stupid and heinous contents (and appreciate it for its occasional flashes of brilliance) it retains value in other fields.
You don't have to like what they're doing any more than they have to like the existence and practice of Islam. Are they trying to make Islam illegal? No, they're exercising their right to disapprove of something.
Further, who is "Burn the Qur'an" day racist against? Muslim is a religion, or culture, not an ethnicity, so, yeah. The only thing in your whole post that is racist is you talking about "white trash rednecks." Whether you are one or not is irrelevant. From your context you are clearly using a racial epitaph to denigrate white people. Congratulations, you're the silly racist goose here, not them.
They want to burn property that they own, legally and in a constitutionally protected manner. Cool. Somebody else wants to get all uppity about it? That's there problem. You think it makes our soldiers overseas less safe? Maybe those soldiers shouldn't be there. Troops in Iraq fighting off sectarian violence has absolutely nothing to do with protecting my freedoms here at home.
I'm a vet, too. Now quit crying and go swab the deck, squid.
While I agree with the rest of your post, here I chuckled.
And I have no problem with that. Everybody just want's to be a smart ass, because they are guaranteed their constitutional rights to be that way WHEN ITS THE SOLDIER WHO IS AFFECTED BY THESE DUMBASSES TO KILL MUSLIMS, BURN THEIR BIBLE, AND IS GETTING KILLED FOR THEIR RIGHT TO DO SO. IF YOU LIVED IN THE MIDDLE EAST YOU'D BE STONED TO DEATH!
Strongly agree.
It would also be a fitting gesture of brotherhood
"See, it's not racism! Being able to dislike every religion is freedom"
Who's stabbing anyone? All the church is doing is burning paper. We should all calm down. All they are doing is lighting paper on fire and saying things.
It's funny that the argument against what the church is doing boils down to
1) If the church burns the special book
2) They'll bomb and murder American soldiers
and somehow the people in group 1 are the ones we should be concerned about? How does that even make any sense?
Moderate religious people (and secular people) should advize the church to not do insensitive, inflamatory things. But we should be concerned about people who attempt, and comitt, murder.
I've asked you...three questions. Care to answer them and have an intelligent debate? Or are you having too much fun with your 'roid rage?
I'm not even joking, btw
I probably outrank you shipmate.
We fought for these ignorant fucks. you telling me its not racist to hate on anybody who practices a particular religion who happens to be mostly black or middle easters, in a world where everybody hates against the president because hes BLACK? I'm white, blonde hair, blue eyed, according to hittler I am the supreme race. So had he won, I'd be sitting pretty. but I know he was wrong, and these ignorant ass amercians hating against americans who happen to practice islam... you telling me that isn't racist? I served side by side by muslims who loved this country far more than almost any american that was born here. Islam is not the problem, as the topic is ABOUT.
Its no wonder the world hates us.
Good because I have no interest in stabbing anyone based on skin color nor have I at any point to date. Tomorrow however that could very well change, some shades of Chartreuse are just not meant to exist in this world and ill kill to keep it that way.
If people back home expressing their real, or imagined outrage at a religion is going to cause problems for our troops overseas well perhaps it is time we stopped "building bridges" for cultures trapped in the dark ages. They have a right to build their mosques, and we have a right to burn their books in protest. That is the freedom America offers.
We have extended the satin gloved hand, and we can work to be understanding. However at the end of the day if they demand American curtail our freedoms because they offend their sensibilities, I have 0 sympathy.
I don't think you can hold every religious personal accountable for the sins of the few, particularly in this day and age. So many Muslims disagree with, and fight against, radical Islam, that it is counterproductive and frankly, untrue, to say that religion (and by implication, the religious) are the problem. In fact, moderate Muslims are a huge part of the solution to violent Islamic extremism.
Like you, I am an atheist. But being an atheist does not mean denigrating and dismissing everyone who believes in g-d. Actually, doing that just makes you an ass, and a self-defeating one at that. If you haven't noticed, there are way more of the religious out there than atheists; they tolerate us, not the other way around.
If we want to mitigate the effects of violent Islamic extremism, we have to engage moderate Muslims, not insult them.
Because of one of the major reasons of the OP if you read it. Who are they going to take it out on? Our troops. What you do here does have an affect on what happens on our troops overseas, who support and defend our constitution.
The word is xenophobic, not racist. Now, with the pedantry out of the way, can we focus on more important things?
I'll contribute more in a bit, after I get back from the doctor.
It's a combination of historic errors in the region, poverty, a feeling of disconnect, anger, defiance, ignorance and demagogues on both sides.
How to solve this? Not even possible to begin to understand all of it combined for me, but probably a combination of earnest international talks, open dialogue about faith, non-faith and ways to co-exist and perhaps even live together.
All in all, you'd probably need a few hundreds of years, but that's about the time it took for all this to form, so..
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