[Mass Effect] Lair of the Shadow Broker rules and you should buy it

electricitylikesme · September 2010

Orca wrote: »

Dashui wrote: »

But really, I think all of us speaking in absolutes about what will or will not happen or what is or isn't possible is kind of silly. We have no idea. That scene in the end of ME2 could be one theory or the other. They could come up with some silly plot reason to have them show up, or maybe Shepard searches for a way to prevent their return completely (but not ultimately kill them off) or at least for generations to come. If it's the former, I eagerly await the nerd rage here about how that doesn't make sense.

Given the knowledge we have now, it's a reasonable statement. Of course, maybe the Reapers have some other drive system. They invented mass effect relays after all. So yeah, there are other ways in that don't involve slowboating it in, maybe.

As for what Shepard does...we have no idea and it's in the realm of pure speculation. I can't wait to see what they actually pull out--I just hope they end up being consistent and plausible within the universe while still being insanely fun.

I suppose in some respects it depends how the Mass Relays themselves are supposed to work. If they pitch and then catch ships entering them, then the problem might not be in getting here quickly, but rather arriving "here" and not way way way past the plane of the galaxy. So again it would all be about decelerating.

Popesnax · September 2010

Mass Effect 3's gameplay will consist of a single 30-hour-long conversation tree, in which a haggard, alcoholic Shepard morosely narrates a series of noir black-and-white flashbacks to the Asari bartender.

BlackDove · September 2010

As valid a hypothesis as any, really.

GrimReaper · September 2010

BlackDove wrote: »

Come on, you just know it's going to be; "Here's this weapon that takes care of all of them, let's go get it, and then fire it as the countdown to our eternal destruction hangs on 0.1 second".

I think you'll find that's totally and utterly wrong.

It always hangs at 1 second.

Solar · September 2010

My Shepherd wil persuade the reapers to fuck off, seeming as he is apparantly more charismatic than Jesus.

Spoiler:

Neli · September 2010

I just hope we get a lot more facetime with the reapers in ME3

in ME1 all we got was that short hologram conversation. In ME2 we got some quotes from Harbinger via his insectoid pawns, but no actual interaction at all.

In ME3, I'd really like it if they fleshed the reapers out a bit

electricitylikesme · September 2010

God damn, the Mass Effect wiki's archives of Cerberus news is great.

SoundsPlush · September 2010

Orca wrote: »

It's not a deus ex machina if you've been striving for it the whole game. I'd hope they handle it less clumsily than they did in ME1 however. Vigil was a deus ex machina. The Conduit was a McGuffin (just clumsily handled).

I think I have to disagree on both.

Spoiler:

Dragkonias · September 2010

BlackDove wrote: »

Speaking of poetry.

I SLASH MY WRISTS

I CUT MY VEINS

ANGER ANGER

BROODING SULKING

LIFE IS NOT WORTH IT

DEPRESSION

Jacqueline would love me.

I loved that part. Reminded me of people on the internet I used to know. :lol:

korodullin · September 2010

SoundsPlush wrote: »

...but I think Bioware is probably smart enough to avoid an obvious optical illusion in setting up their scenes.

At 1:10.

Fairchild · September 2010

SoundsPlush wrote: »

I think I have to disagree on both.

Spoiler:

Vigil isn't really a deus ex machina. He doesn't present an out-of-nowhere solution to the crisis - the crisis is stopping Saren, since Saren is going to trigger the relay, and Shepard can handle that one on her own. Vigil does offer tremendous help in the form of the program that lets you open the locked citadel arms and let the fleet in to destroy Sovereign, but that's the secondary component to stopping their plan at the citadel, and still costs everything it would otherwise in terms of ships/lives to take down a reaper.

The Conduit doesn't come into play (since you don't learn of it) until late in the game, and then it has a very real and useful purpose which it is then used for. I tend to think of MacGuffins as reverse Chekov's Guns: important in the beginning and irrelevant and unused later.

Right on, padnuh. Vigil isn't a deus ex machina; he's a plot exposition device who appears at the end of the game to pull the story together. ME2 informs Shepard that Vigil's version of events is not even correct, altho that is probably retconning by ME2's writers.

Wyborn · September 2010

korodullin wrote: »

SoundsPlush wrote: »

...but I think Bioware is probably smart enough to avoid an obvious optical illusion in setting up their scenes.

At 1:10.

To say nothing of

Spoiler:

WotanAnubis · September 2010

BlackDove wrote: »

Speaking of poetry.

FILLED WITH ANGER

MUST MURDER SOMEONE RIGHT NOW

CONDITIONED BLISS

- A Jacqueline Nought haiku

Spoiler:

Kakodaimonos · September 2010

Popesnax wrote: »

kal wrote: »

Popesnax wrote: »

Prohass wrote: »

The rain on the windows, the subtle encouragement to investigate without the sense that your doing a 'level' or 'mission' in a game. And the goddamn rain. Games need way more environmental effects. But yeah I fucking loved it, and I loved how it didnt involve the anatomy of an asari in any way.

I really liked the cops doing their thing in the cutscene. For one thing, I always like seeing them put neat-yet-mundane effects on omnitools (scanning fingerprints, flashlights, etc), but more generally I enjoyed the whole crime scene drama feel. I sort of wish I'd had the opportunity to talk to the police and be all Phoenix Wright before they got dismissed, though.

That was a great scene. I loved the futuristic take in CSI. As was said Liara's apartment was a great section all together.

I really liked the whole Ilium sequence because it actually included civilians. The main game mostly segregates the action to keep non-combatants out of the area during shooting sections (empty warehouses, merc bases, etc - or they're all dead by the time you arrive)), so it was kind of neat to see how the average citizen of Ilium reacts when shit starts exploding and people get shot. I mean, the way the world is presented it would be easy to assume that everyone in the 22nd century is totally accustomed to power-armored space marines running around shooting each other.

Really, that's an opportunity I think they've missed several times, especially with the Battle of the Citadel in ME1.

"I saw some Krogans down by the water recently. I steered clear of them."
"Disgusting creatures, I hope I never see another."

:lol:

SoundsPlush · September 2010

korodullin wrote: »

At 1:10.

I say we just drag Vsove in here and blame him.

Fairchild wrote: »

ME2 informs Shepard that Vigil's version of events is not even correct, altho that is probably retconning by ME2's writers.

I can't really remember anything specific right now; what do you mean?

Fairchild · September 2010

SoundsPlush wrote: »

I say we just drag Vsove in here and blame him.

I can't really remember anything specific right now; what do you mean?

Vigil tells us that the Reapers wiped out the Protheans, whereas we learn in ME2 that the Collectors are actually Protheans captured and deformed by the Reapers to become useful and obedient Reaper slaves.

electricitylikesme · September 2010

SoundsPlush wrote: »

Fairchild wrote: »

ME2 informs Shepard that Vigil's version of events is not even correct, altho that is probably retconning by ME2's writers.

I can't really remember anything specific right now; what do you mean?

I don't think he's right.

Spoiler:

EDIT:

Spoiler:

BlackDove · September 2010

WotanAnubis wrote: »

BlackDove wrote: »

Speaking of poetry.

FILLED WITH ANGER

MUST MURDER SOMEONE RIGHT NOW

CONDITIONED BLISS

- A Jacqueline Nought haiku

Spoiler:

I hope. I'm terrible at counting syllables.

Kasumi yearns for Jacqueline, and doesn't even know it.

Aegeri · September 2010

Playing ME again reminds me how good bioware have made the combat in ME2. The difference is so massive I'm amazed they are the same series of games.

Nuzak · September 2010

Orca wrote: »

BlackDove wrote: »

The games make it very clear that the energy consumption is prohibitive at longer durations, meaning that idea is out. It also makes it a point that the actual "reaping" requires an extensive power down, and exhausts their entire energy reserves as Sovereign himself slept in-system.

Spoiler:

They have to periodically discharge their drive field or end up fried; this means stops in systems. They can't just fly all the way from dark space to the core without stopping to pee.

Given the distance, even assuming an insanely advanced drive, they'd be years off unless something else pops up. I wonder if we'll be taking the fight to the Reapers for ME3 the way we did to the Collectors in ME2?

frankly if the reapers could hoof it to the milky way within years, with no disadvantages, why the hell did they go to the effort of the citadel and that whole trap? they could have walked here, apparently.

ME3 will reveal the reapers had one last back-up plan or other way into the universe. some of them get through but not all.

Neli · September 2010

Nuzak wrote: »

Orca wrote: »

BlackDove wrote: »

The games make it very clear that the energy consumption is prohibitive at longer durations, meaning that idea is out. It also makes it a point that the actual "reaping" requires an extensive power down, and exhausts their entire energy reserves as Sovereign himself slept in-system.

Spoiler:

They have to periodically discharge their drive field or end up fried; this means stops in systems. They can't just fly all the way from dark space to the core without stopping to pee.

Given the distance, even assuming an insanely advanced drive, they'd be years off unless something else pops up. I wonder if we'll be taking the fight to the Reapers for ME3 the way we did to the Collectors in ME2?

frankly if the reapers could hoof it to the milky way within years, with no disadvantages, why the hell did they go to the effort of the citadel and that whole trap? they could have walked here, apparently.

Well, doing the whole "citadel trap" thing, they would have crippled all their opponents as soon as they arrived and would have secured total victory right then and there. Now that they're moving in more slowly, their opponents (everyone in the galaxy) will become aware of their presence as they close in and will be able to form a much sturdier resistance.

So, obviously they still wanted to do the Citadel Trap thing, even if they can get to the Galaxy by other, lesser means

BlackDove · September 2010

Neli wrote: »

Nuzak wrote: »

Orca wrote: »

BlackDove wrote: »

The games make it very clear that the energy consumption is prohibitive at longer durations, meaning that idea is out. It also makes it a point that the actual "reaping" requires an extensive power down, and exhausts their entire energy reserves as Sovereign himself slept in-system.

Spoiler:

They have to periodically discharge their drive field or end up fried; this means stops in systems. They can't just fly all the way from dark space to the core without stopping to pee.

Given the distance, even assuming an insanely advanced drive, they'd be years off unless something else pops up. I wonder if we'll be taking the fight to the Reapers for ME3 the way we did to the Collectors in ME2?

frankly if the reapers could hoof it to the milky way within years, with no disadvantages, why the hell did they go to the effort of the citadel and that whole trap? they could have walked here, apparently.

Well, doing the whole "citadel trap" thing, they would have crippled all their opponents as soon as they arrived and would have secured total victory right then and there. Now that they're moving in more slowly, their opponents (everyone in the galaxy) will become aware of their presence as they close in and will be able to form a much sturdier resistance.

So, obviously they still wanted to do the Citadel Trap thing, even if they can get to the Galaxy by other, lesser means

The screaming in my mind, it is neverending.

Neli · September 2010

BlackDove wrote: »

Neli wrote: »

Nuzak wrote: »

Orca wrote: »

BlackDove wrote: »

The games make it very clear that the energy consumption is prohibitive at longer durations, meaning that idea is out. It also makes it a point that the actual "reaping" requires an extensive power down, and exhausts their entire energy reserves as Sovereign himself slept in-system.

Spoiler:

They have to periodically discharge their drive field or end up fried; this means stops in systems. They can't just fly all the way from dark space to the core without stopping to pee.

Given the distance, even assuming an insanely advanced drive, they'd be years off unless something else pops up. I wonder if we'll be taking the fight to the Reapers for ME3 the way we did to the Collectors in ME2?

frankly if the reapers could hoof it to the milky way within years, with no disadvantages, why the hell did they go to the effort of the citadel and that whole trap? they could have walked here, apparently.

Well, doing the whole "citadel trap" thing, they would have crippled all their opponents as soon as they arrived and would have secured total victory right then and there. Now that they're moving in more slowly, their opponents (everyone in the galaxy) will become aware of their presence as they close in and will be able to form a much sturdier resistance.

So, obviously they still wanted to do the Citadel Trap thing, even if they can get to the Galaxy by other, lesser means

The screaming in my mind, it is neverending.

w-what

Solar · September 2010

I imagine for the Reapers it's like going out to pick up a sandwich from the corner shop,only to find some little shit has stolen your car. So you have to walk down, which takes longer and isn't desirable but is still possible. But now the same oik who stole your car has a chance to barricade the shop and defend it with his gang of hoodlums.

OK, I admit, the analogy goes a bit off towards the end, but you get what I mean.

Popesnax · September 2010

So I was playing through ME1 and it occurs to me that if Anderson hadn't gone and busted the Normandy out of lockdown, Shepard and his team would have been waiting on the Citadel when Saren showed up. You could have just ambled over to the Council Chamber and shot him before he could lock down the station (Hell, given where the Normandy is parked relative to C-Sec control, Shepard could actually confront him right there), then waited for the 5th fleet to show up and shoot Sovereign again.

The entire expedition to Ilos was actually pointless and got thousands of people killed who didn't need to be. D:

Fairchild · September 2010

So, if the British had just retreated to Normandy in 1940 and hung on there against the Germans, they could have saved themselves all that trouble four years later ?

Intriguing...

envoy1 · September 2010

Popesnax wrote: »

So I was playing through ME1 and it occurs to me that if Anderson hadn't gone and busted the Normandy out of lockdown, Shepard and his team would have been waiting on the Citadel when Saren showed up. You could have just ambled over to the Council Chamber and shot him before he could lock down the station (Hell, given where the Normandy is parked relative to C-Sec control, Shepard could actually confront him right there), then waited for the 5th fleet to show up and shoot Sovereign again.

The entire expedition to Ilos was actually pointless and got thousands of people killed who didn't need to be. D:

20/20 hindsight is easy. At the time, with the information they had - of course Shep had to chase after Saren. EDIT: or the conrad verner style of spectering -> hang around the citadel and wait for shit to go down.

Alucard6986 · September 2010

There's also the chance shephard could have gotten taken out in a random explosion when the geth boarded the citadel.

Turambar · September 2010

Popesnax wrote: »

So I was playing through ME1 and it occurs to me that if Anderson hadn't gone and busted the Normandy out of lockdown, Shepard and his team would have been waiting on the Citadel when Saren showed up. You could have just ambled over to the Council Chamber and shot him before he could lock down the station (Hell, given where the Normandy is parked relative to C-Sec control, Shepard could actually confront him right there), then waited for the 5th fleet to show up and shoot Sovereign again.

The entire expedition to Ilos was actually pointless and got thousands of people killed who didn't need to be. D:

The only explanation is that Anderson is working for the Reapers.

Evangir · September 2010

envoy1 wrote: »

Popesnax wrote: »

So I was playing through ME1 and it occurs to me that if Anderson hadn't gone and busted the Normandy out of lockdown, Shepard and his team would have been waiting on the Citadel when Saren showed up. You could have just ambled over to the Council Chamber and shot him before he could lock down the station (Hell, given where the Normandy is parked relative to C-Sec control, Shepard could actually confront him right there), then waited for the 5th fleet to show up and shoot Sovereign again.

The entire expedition to Ilos was actually pointless and got thousands of people killed who didn't need to be. D:

20/20 hindsight is easy. At the time, with the information they had - of course Shep had to chase after Saren. EDIT: or the conrad verner style of spectering -> hang around the citadel and wait for shit to go down.

Spoiler:

OptimusZed · September 2010

Just failed Thane's loyalty mission.

again.

gah

CuddlyCuteKitten · September 2010

Not to mention that you'd have to face of the main assault force by yourself. Probably wouldn't even have seen Saren. I thought the main reason you managed to get to him was that no one saw you coming?

Wyborn · September 2010

Popesnax wrote: »

So I was playing through ME1 and it occurs to me that if Anderson hadn't gone and busted the Normandy out of lockdown, Shepard and his team would have been waiting on the Citadel when Saren showed up. You could have just ambled over to the Council Chamber and shot him before he could lock down the station (Hell, given where the Normandy is parked relative to C-Sec control, Shepard could actually confront him right there), then waited for the 5th fleet to show up and shoot Sovereign again.

The entire expedition to Ilos was actually pointless and got thousands of people killed who didn't need to be. D:

Eh.

Saren shows up in the middle of the Presidium, like six feet away from his destinations.

Spoiler:

I think it's still better tey went to Ilos.

Dragkonias · September 2010

OptimusZed wrote: »

Just failed Thane's loyalty mission.

again.

gah

How?

l337CrappyJack · September 2010

Dragkonias wrote: »

OptimusZed wrote: »

Just failed Thane's loyalty mission.

again.

gah

How?

You can take too long to get the info, and if you don't have the right stuff (sufficient P/R points or Spectre status reinstated), the lawyer pulls out his client and you leave empty-handed.

Dragkonias · September 2010

Even if you don't have enough P/R you can just keep hitting the dude until he squeals...

Wyborn · September 2010

You can lose track of the target for too long.

electricitylikesme · September 2010

Wyborn wrote: »

Popesnax wrote: »

So I was playing through ME1 and it occurs to me that if Anderson hadn't gone and busted the Normandy out of lockdown, Shepard and his team would have been waiting on the Citadel when Saren showed up. You could have just ambled over to the Council Chamber and shot him before he could lock down the station (Hell, given where the Normandy is parked relative to C-Sec control, Shepard could actually confront him right there), then waited for the 5th fleet to show up and shoot Sovereign again.

The entire expedition to Ilos was actually pointless and got thousands of people killed who didn't need to be. D:

Eh.

Saren shows up in the middle of the Presidium, like six feet away from his destinations.

Spoiler:

Shepard would have taken logner to get there from the Wards than he did from Ilos, and he wouldn't have had the program that let him take control of the Citadel and kill Sovereign.

I think it's still better tey went to Ilos.

That program

Spoiler:

OptimusZed · September 2010

Wyborn wrote: »

You can lose track of the target for too long.

This is what happens to me.

I need to just write down the path through the stupid doors or something.

Emporium · September 2010

Re: LotSB credit-hunting

Spoiler:

Penny Arcade

[Mass Effect] Lair of the Shadow Broker rules and you should buy it

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