I went to Fencing practice at my University today. It was the second meeting as far as I know (I missed the first one or it was canceled. Conflicting stories abound).
I am not the most physically active fellow, but I am well acquainted with a little basketballin' here and there, which is why I am asking "Why in Christ's name was this so hard?" All we did was footwork, namely working on stance, advances, retreats, and lunges. Anyone who has had a little experience with the sport probably knows what I'm going to say next - OW OW OUCH, MY FLIPPING THIGHS. We practiced for an hour and my legs are burning like Vido at the end of Zaeed's loyalty mission (ME2). What gives? I've exerted myself over longer periods of time and not had this much soreness afterward.
Also, I gots mad scoliosis dawg, which means holding posture can be kind of annoying. I got corrected a lot on this.
Succinctly Summarized for Scrutiny: Fencing practice is hard, am I a wimp? Also, general "How To Not Suck At Fencing" advice would be stupendous. I intend to actually not suck at a sport for real, so bring the heat.
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I am also assuming your doctor was consulted about sports and your instructor is aware of your condition.
This. I only got the chance to try fencing for a few weeks and by the end of that I was getting used to it. The only advice I can give is pay attention and follow your instructor's advice. I did learn to do an interesting hop back thrust thing while practicing that seemed to catch people.
I have no idea how to teach that or even if I could do it now.
The shuffle Stepping will help with your thighs being on fire, the sprinting will give you the necessary burst speed to catch your opponent off guard, and the running, other than being generally helpful, will make boutting a whole mess less exhausting.
As far as footwork goes, practice in front of a mirror, it'll help you see if you're messing up. Always keep your en garde where your heels are at a 90 degree angle, and don't roll your backfoot when you lunge. Keep it flat on the ground. And... some advice my coach gave me when I started coaching at my college, "Learning to fence is like a ladder. If you skip a rung you'll get stuck on it and that'll be the only thing you want to do." So don't do super crazy handwork, the basics are one hundred times better than moving your arms in super intricate handwork that your opponent will just lunge into and get a touch off of.
In fencing you have to be light on your toes and heavy on them at the same time. You'll need to dance back quickly, like a mongoose, but when you lunge you're going to have to do so with gusto.
Since you said you aren't the most physically active fellow, it sounds like your aches are just general pains that will go away with some more activity. You'll be fine after a few practices.
I should point out that there will be subtle variations in your stance and movement depending on what kind of style you fence. I fence sabre which in my humble opinion is ridiculously fun, but if you're trying foil or epee you'll be doing even more lunging, since it's nothing but thrusts.
Psh. Sabre is the best.
As for supplemental exercises outside of practice, we will be going at it three times a week, with an additional clinic this weekend on Saturday, which is optional (I will probably be going - like I said, serious, also I think I kinda need it). As such, I will probably be doing a little of what TJFP6 suggested (thanks!) but not a shit ton of it. Also, thanks for mentioning the back foot during lunges, as I was definitely rolling off of it when we were instructed to get some more distance on our lunges.
I suppose the muscle troubles do stem from the fact that different exertion is in play. Hopefully I grow up in a couple of practices. Void, the condition was discussed, but he just sort of warily told me to take things for a spin and see how it plays out. I don't get pains, but I do end up slacking off keeping my back "straight". It's annoying.
Thanks again peeps. Further advice is still welcome obviously.
They may say to get more distance, but you never really want your knee to go over your foot when you lunge. Also, when you recover, bend your back knee in and then shift your weight onto your backfoot and push up. Really, when you fence more weight should always be on the back heel with your back straight not leaning over. When its not, you start putting crazy pressure on your knees and that, well that starts hurting real quick.
Fencing is actually a really tough sport. It's not natural, it takes forever to learn the basics properly, the competitions can literally take all day, the top ranks are loaded with spoiled crybabies, and the USFA leadership is non-existent even after winning more Olympic medals than ever.
Anywho...
Yes, I also recommend doing other stuff to sort of balance your musculature. Fencing is a one-sided sport, so one leg/arm might get bigger than the other if you don't do other stuff. Of course, it's only a big problem for the hardcore. It's not going to be a concern if you just go to practice once or twice a week (although it couldn't hurt). The pain situation is from not using those muscles in this way for prolonged periods of time. You should be sore for a long time after the first practice, but the soreness time should gradually reduce until you're only sore for a few hours after practice. Expect to sweat a lot though, every goddamn time.
I can try to answer some more questions if you have any.
Edit: IMHO, the best fencers are essentially athletes first and fencers second.
Let 'em eat fucking pineapples!
Let 'em eat fucking pineapples!
Also, this thread spurred me toward more detailed research. I don't know how to choose between the three weapons, or even if I'll get to choose or if it will be chosen for me (it's a club sport, so around here, that means show up, bust your ass, you get to roll with us). Thoughts? Experiences?
Epee: Its all about staring down your opponent and seeing when someone messes up. Outside of a lot of bouncing up and down there is very little movement and a typical gold medal bout usually gets is something like 5-6 or 9-10. There is no right of way and the double touch.
Sabre: Its the most strenuous physically, in generally. Fast-paced, hard hitting, and very fun to do. There is much jump lunging. Right of way is confusing and despite having a judging rank in Sabre, I still get confused about all the different angles of intent for attack.
None of them are boring, except Epee, but Epee can go to hell. But I suggest trying out all the weapons. If you do foil though, you're generally in the clear for Epee because Foil is basically unconventional Epee and by practicing it you'll be quicker than a lot of Epeeists and probably beat most of them in tournaments.
I've had fencing coaches scorekeep a match I'm doing (a casual one, I mean), and even they seem to get confused figuring out right-of-way for sabre. It's all a bit by the seat of the pants.
But I love sabre. I've tried epee, which was...eh. Never tried foil. I probably should.
:arrow:
OP: all of this advice is basically good. I dont think anyone said "do squats" so I will tell you: do squats. your legs will get freaking HUGE and that is good!
But fun leg exercises: Wall-Sits, Squats, Fencing Suicides (same as a running suicide but in a fencing stance. Focus on form first, than once your coach things you got that down, work on speed. Take a lunge at each line).
I'll also second the idea that athleticism is hugely important in fencing. Most fencers at my school club simply didn't have the endurance they should have, and as a result I took almost all my points from them on footwork alone. When I went to a new club and picked up an epee just for kicks and giggles, my opponent was fencing faster than I was used to fencing foil. Blew my mind.
- wanted to win
AND
- be able to sleep at night
Seriously, if you can remove the goddamn director from the bout, everything becomes much more fair. It's hard enough for the fencers to determine right-of-way in foil/saber, let alone the director. Just forget that shit, fence epee, and fence your opponent alone.
Let 'em eat fucking pineapples!
Bad posture does actually give your opponent more target area - you may not realize it, but you're basically giving your whole back away as a target. More experienced fencers will be able to flick their blade right over. I can understand how posture would be hard for the OP though.
All three weapons are mental games, really. But if you don't want to worry about whether your attack was valid or not because the judge didn't think your parry was strong enough, turning it into a beat attack, then epee is the way to go.
Also epee bruises you harder than foil.
I always thought of foil and epee as more precision oriented than sabre.
Example: Holding the opponents blade, flicking your own foot as you lunge because without off target you can make even yourself your opponent, and my personal favorite, Rigging the wiring of the blade to add a "button" that you can press in and cause the touch light to go off.
Outside of blade holding, those only work in Epee because everywhere is target. Fence foil and save yourself alot of time and some headache. Because Refs are going to be bad in whatever blade you fence, its a part of the sport.
well now you are trying to scare the OP off with shit that nobody actually does IRL, because it would get caught literally in one second at a tournament. unless you mean at your club, in which case sorry you fence with cheaters I guess vOv
If it never happened in real life, why was I warned to look out for it when training for my Refereeing certification?
OP, fence whatever weapon seems cool to you. never mind what haters say, ignore em til they fade away.
I may dislike Epee, but I love being a foilist who can wallop Epeeists more. It really depends on what type of fitness you're willing to put into it and where in the world of fencing your strengths lie. If you have excellent speed and footwork and like slashing a dude Sabre may be for you. If you like handwork and have bad footwork or just don't like footwork check out Epee. If you have quick, strong handwork, decent to strong footwork, and like a limited target try foil. But definitely try them all atleast once.
And, I've tried epee and didn't like it as much as foil. Foil is (like all fencing) really physical, but feels like a lot more of a game of mental-physical chess, working with movement and being in tune with who has right of way and whatnot. A lot more to keep track of and a lot more exciting. Also, I feel like it demands a bit more finesse than the other styles.
This sounds a lot like what I'm looking for, to be honest, but I will still give Sabre a look tomorrow (my RA, who invited me in the first place, fences Sabre).
And to appease the die-hards, I will give Epee a swing at the clinic on Saturday.
It happened.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Onishchenko
Edit: I really need to start checking when I am quoting someone from the bottom of the page :oops:
If you ever decide to do any sort of competition, whether it be with your school club or you join the USFA, this is a terrible attitude to have. Are there bad referees (they are no longer called directors) out there? Yes. Do you still need to respect them and learn to keep your cool when they are screwing up your bout? Yes.
However there are also plenty of good referees who are always happy to answer questions after bouts/tournies, and can help guide you through the fencing world.
http://www.fencing.net/forums/forum.php Is a very good resource for more fencing discussion and questions. There are a lot of very experienced fencers, referees, and armorers on there.
I'm going to echo what some others have said: Footwork is the most important thing. Good footwork will trump good bladework 9/10 times, as it means you're faster and can recover balance more quickly. Work those thighs!
Also,
Oh-so-limed. Sabre is a rollicking party compared to the hum-drum of foil and epee. Slashy-slashy!
Yes and no. Footwork and distance are both extremely critical to being a successful fencer, but you should not get apathetic towards developing good blade work as well.
I might be fencing someone who has the best footwork ever, but if he cant disengage from my parry, he won't score a single point on me.
Also quad stretch anecdote. I'm pretty limber and I could never actually stretch my quadriceps during my first year of fencing. After a while, I learned how to do it on the ground (other leg out, stretched leg under you and sort of push your hips up). It allowed me to actually stretch it--I never got a good stretch from pulling it behind me while standing. It's not likely that you have that problem, but in a general sense, if you're going through any of the stretches the instructor has you do and think they're not really doing anything for you, I recommend you find out what the goal of that stretch is, ask for advice on how to properly do it, or find another stretch that'll target the same thing and do it before the group stretching (assuming there's some sort of group stretching--if not, make sure you don't half ass the stretching/warmup!)
Let's promise to get back into it. I tried at my old university but I didn't have time to practice a lot and the club there was incredibly pretentious :? I'm looking for way to get back into the sport without joining an elite fencing club. Something recreational, but not so casual that it's like a drop-in session at my local community center (which is actually how I started fencing, as a teenager).
I'm 6'4", weigh in at 125kg, but have a MASSIVE reach. Even being as unfit as all get out, I was smashing it home in foil and epee.
Foil - Take the opponents blade. A simple tap on their blade as you are lunging in to strike will take the right of way from your opponent. I made it my go to move, and it rarely let me down.
Epee - pretty sure someone already said this, but get in close and use strength if you have it. I beat much better opponents than me because I have strong forearm muscles (motorcyclist for the win), allowing me to 'take' their blade, and turn it away from me, as I sneak in past their blade and strike.
Side note, I picked up a trick accidentally that worked 9 out of 10 times. In fencing, having one hand on the floor is not counted as a fall, so, essentially, I'd drop into a one handed push up (keeping my knees off the ground) and lunge forward from my toes and shoulder with my right arm, completely under my opponents guard. Very sneaky, very effective.
If you are going to do this:
1. Make sure you are super in control of your actions or you will be penalized for falling and not score any points that you may have touched.
2. Make sure that your face is facing forwards at all time or you will be penalized for dropping your head and exposing the back of your neck.
I definitely think that changing the position of your torso is great to for mixing up your opponent a little bit, whether it is a duck (with your torso, not your head) or shifting from side to side; however you should be aware of how exposed your back is during this maneuver.
I did this a lot too. I had a lot of refs in tournaments call it a beat-attack, and so the point went to my opponent because it didn't count as a parry =(.