It's hard to call an animal smart and whatnot, then say they don't understand physical punishment. There's nothing wrong with giving a pet a smack to reinforce that their current actions are wrong. Same goes for your kids. Not babies, but kids.
You can't just talk lightly, hug them, and expect them to learn anything.
I'm not saying beat your cats, but the mindset that physical punishment is some deplorable and terrible thing is ridiculous. Granted, cats are MUCH more fragile than dogs, so it's rarer to see.
Are you fucking kidding me. I am volunteering now with an eye toward one day having a rescue/rehabilitating abused animals which my parents and I have been doing my entire life. What are your qualifications for 'knowing' that negative reinforcement works on cats?
Please don't post if all you have is your folksy down home (incorrect) wisdom.
edit: Just do what I said earlier and your problem will be gone in a week. It won't be a big deal. I promise the cat learns nothing from you yelling or tapping its butt.
You see the bad, the worst end of the spectrum. The "abuse" side, which no one here is advocating. Step off your high horse. What works for you may not work for others. All pets are unique, different, and react as such.
The double sided tape thing is genius. I'm going to have to tell my mom about it. Definitely less of an eyesore than tinfoil.
Yeah especially since I know how she's getting up there. I can just layer it right on that spot.
urahonky on
0
OnTheLastCastlelet's keep it haimish for the peripateticRegistered Userregular
edited September 2010
Dude, I am NOT saying anyone here is abusing or advocating abuse. I am saying I know what works best. I do. Absolutely.
If you don't want to listen, that's fine. I have more experience in this area than you do on how to TRAIN animals. That is what he was asking for and I provided the BEST METHOD for TRAINING a cat to not do what he said.
I don't claim to be all knowing in other areas. I'm not even all knowing in animal training by far yet. But I work hard at it and someday I will be a real expert in the field.
edit: I have yelled at and scruffed my cats neck before. Then I take a breath and use positive reinforcement to make my little demon stop chewing on cords. I'm not demonizing anyone here, I just want people to know, 100%, that you can have more success with other methods. Okay, I'm done now. Sorry.
Oooh, that site recommended using a fog horn. Man that would be some good times. Hell I might even stop going on the counter if my wife used that on me.
urahonky on
0
OnTheLastCastlelet's keep it haimish for the peripateticRegistered Userregular
The least effective way to try to correct unwanted behavior is to physically or verbally punish your cat. All this does is make your cat afraid of you and teach him that it’s only safe to do these things when you aren’t around.
IMO, all you have to do is break them of their habits just like you would a 2 year old.
If they scratch at the door, ignore it. Because if you reinforce it by coming to the door, they'll assume to get attention they should scratch.
To stop them from climbing up on counters is a bit trickier, you're going to have to put away things like half-drunk cans of soda (or get bottles instead to reseal, hey no more wasting!), take glasses off the counter. After a few dozen broken glasses and paying for replacements you learn not to do it anymore. The best way to reinforce a bad behavior while you're already interacting with them is to pick them up, place them down in a "safe spot" and tell them in a firm voice "No." Yelling doesn't do shit either.
They get the idea, but cats in particular like to be little shits so YMMV. Most of the time cats just won't do it while you're around, though if you start them young they'll just associate it with something they shouldn't do rather than "oh there must be something good up there, like food, or water!"
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
My cat figure out how to turn the water on in the bathroom sink. A few weeks later I found her toy stuffed mouse in the sink, soaked all the way through with water.
Our door is just loose enough that, along with the meowing, the cat would "dig" at the base of the door (clawless), causing it to loudly rattle at night.
Hasn't done it for a little while, but that's what really gets me.
Our door is just loose enough that, along with the meowing, the cat would "dig" at the base of the door (clawless), causing it to loudly rattle at night.
Hasn't done it for a little while, but that's what really gets me.
Growing up one of my cats did this. No meowing at all. Just sticking their paws underneath the door and rattling. Seemed to stop on its own. He only did it when he wanted attention.
I've had great success with training cats, and yes, cats can be trained like any other animal. Ever seen a man stick his head in a lion's mouth? That's a cat. Not all cats are the same, and techniques that work on one cat won't necessarily work on it's brother.
I never advocate hitting a cat, but to say they don't learn anything from it is false. To say that all physical contact with a cat is abuse is wrong too. Anecdotally, my friend's cat LOVES being patted HARD, like the way you might really smack a large dog's haunches. That area just fore of the tail where cats like being scratched? He likes that area hit HARD. I'd never seen such a thing before.
The trick is finding things that your cat specifically doesn't like. One of my cats, Princess, responded very well to loud noises. When I saw her going for a desk I didn't want her on, I just loudly and sharply said "HEY!" and she would freeze in her tracks and look at me. Then I just picked her up and put her somewhere else.
The younger cat, Duke, loud noises do absolutely nothing. You can clap, sharply say NO or HEY... no effect. He just powers through it. So I do the same thing as with Princess, pick him up and put him somewhere else. He immediately just runs back to where I don't want him. I repeat the process, except this time when he runs back I scoop him up with one hand and give him a little flick on the forehead and then put him down. Nothing that would injure him. The point isn't to injure or make the cat feel pain, the point is to quickly surprise the cat with something it doesn't like.
For long range training I used a toy airsoft gun, one of those miniature electrics. Don't freak out, I didn't ever shoot a BB at the cats. These guns make lots of sharp mechanical noises. I would shoot a BB at a wall near the offending cat, and it would bounce around and really freak out the cat, sorta like throwing an empty coke can with a penny inside it: it just makes a racket that startles them out of their bad behavior. After a short bit of this, I didn't even keep the gun loaded. All I had to do what shoot it empty and it still makes the sharp sounds and the cats stop what they are doing. Not long after, all I have to do is reach for the gun.
Cats are not dumb, are extremely observant, and will not necessarily be fearful of you just because you scared them. Like I said before, all cats are different, but in my experience with my own cats they were never fearful of me. They can learn that when they are being little shits, they get treated like little shits, and when they are nice, they get treated nice. These cats were actually my roommates cats, and he was constantly remarking how much they loved me compared to anyone else in the house. He called me the cat whisperer and thanked me many times for turning his cats from little terrors into peaceful housemates.
The most important thing to remember when trying any techniques in this thread is a great big YMMV. You just have to be kind, firm, and creative. The better you know your cats the better you can train them.
The worse thing you should do in the form of physical punishment, and only do this then they are very small and playing too violently (biting hard), is tap them on the nose. not hard, but they will back off and it does help train them in that respect. It doesnt work for anything else.
DO NOT HIT A CAT. Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with you, it's like punching a baby, all they learn is that you = pain. Just because your uncle Cletus hit a cat once and it stopped chewing cables, it doesn't make it a valid form of discipline. Nobody who actually knows something about animal psychology thinks it's a good idea. If that's not enough to convince you, cats are fragile. The instant your "discipline" goes over the line and causes an injury, that's animal cruelty- $20k fine and prison time in California. Find a better way.
Sheep, try putting a desk fan outside your door, blowing across the frame. It keeps our cats from wanting to go anywhere near the door, ditto for my old roommate's cats. We also cut up one of those flexible plastic floor mat things people use to put under rolly chairs on carpet and put the pieces under the doorjam, it keeps them from scratching (or at least it will keep the scratching from causing damage, ours quit scratching after a couple of nights).
We have to use the fan because our cats have also figured out how to open doors. It's only a matter of time before they figure out where I keep my keys and how to start the car. And then phase 2 of their plan begins.
DO NOT HIT A CAT. Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with you, it's like punching a baby, all they learn is that you = pain. Just because your uncle Cletus hit a cat once and it stopped chewing cables, it doesn't make it a valid form of discipline. Nobody who actually knows something about animal psychology thinks it's a good idea. If that's not enough to convince you, cats are fragile. The instant your "discipline" goes over the line and causes an injury, that's animal cruelty- $20k fine and prison time in California. Find a better way.
Sheep, try putting a desk fan outside your door, blowing across the frame. It keeps our cats from wanting to go anywhere near the door, ditto for my old roommate's cats. We also cut up one of those flexible plastic floor mat things people use to put under rolly chairs on carpet and put the pieces under the doorjam, it keeps them from scratching (or at least it will keep the scratching from causing damage, ours quit scratching after a couple of nights).
We have to use the fan because our cats have also figured out how to open doors. It's only a matter of time before they figure out where I keep my keys and how to start the car. And then phase 2 of their plan begins.
no one is saying hit a cat. (and equating it to punching a baby?!) a light flick or smack isn't going to hurt a cat.
Seriously, get off your three paragraph high horse dude.
Nobody is saying choke your kittens. Or beat them until they are scared of you. Popping a cat on the bottom to get it to stay off the damn counter is not only perfectly acceptable but pretty much a proven solution. Cats don't like to be popped on the bottom. My cat equates screwing around on the counter with momma gonna spank my bottom. So she doesn't do it, because the counter is less fun when the only thing you find on it is a spank on the ass.
Just because YOU can't control yourself when you physically strike an animal doesn't mean every person who strikes one is doing it to be cruel, or unable to control themselves to a point they don't break bones or brain the thing.
Let me guess, spanking your children is child abuse also? EDIT OH WAIT YOU DO THINK ITS CHILD ABUSE. BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
It sure is. If the smacking isn't a "KAPOW" where you break their neck it's not "punching the baby in the face." Some animals respond really well to the unpleasant sensation of getting a tap on the nose. That's still hitting.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
So it's ok to "lightly flick" or smack a baby, then? I mean, it doesn't hurt the baby so it must be ok.
....
I have no idea why you're equating a cat to a baby.
edit: I guess this should be taken to D&D or something sorry for the lack of good advice. My cat always does bad stuff when I'm not around and it's usually not bad enough that I feel it needs correcting
I love that some people automatically assume that striking an animal in any way is either:
A) Abuse (it's not)
Equal to hitting a human baby (it's not)
C) Wrong in any way (it's not)
Now, abuse? That's wrong. And there is such a major difference between "hitting" and "abuse" that it shouldn't have to be explained to people that claim to be functioning, rational people. The next person that has some 3 paragraph spiel about how evil it is to touch an animal in a disciplinary fashion is getting a massive cockslap.
That being said, you should certainly seek training of some kind or work with other methods if you want. I don't think hitting something is the first and last resort to training anything. I just know it's an option. I've owned a few animals in my day and guess what? Hitting them a few times didn't make them scared of me at all.
I did have a friend who, whenever his cat would scratch up furniture or do something else equally retarded (seriously, this cat was the devil), he would let it cool off in the freezer for a little while. I don't agree with that method at all, but the cat did turn from it's evil ways quite quickly.
I guess my point is don't own cats.
ChillyWilly on
PAFC Top 10 Finisher in Seasons 1 and 3. 2nd in Seasons 4 and 5. Final 4 in Season 6.
Honky, man, find a method that works for you. I think ignoring it for a while will help, and I hope it does. It's really crappy to have to put up with it, and have very few options to immediately resolve it.
On a side note - There are people out there that set cats on fire, pummel dogs to death, microwave animals, etc. Choose your battles people. Smacking (not beating, not punching, not any violent word you want to substitute with) an animal is fine. If you don't want to do it, don't. But choose your battles. Go after the sick people that do the disgustingly violent shit, and stop trying to equate smacking a cat or a dog with hurting an infant.
If you wish to think that we're bad, terrible people for doing so, I couldn't care less. I remain happy, and you remain irrationally angry and powerless. Animal abuse is wrong. Animal cruelty is wrong. Punishing and training animals in a way that works without truly harming the animal physically is just fine.
I could regurgitate links to a website that advocates training animals with a firm hand, because I'm sure they exist. Could be a well established organization, too. Wouldn't make them, or me, right. OTLC - "READ. YOUR. POSTS." You're the worst kind of debater, with the holier-than-thou attitude.
Edit: I just went looking, and found an alarming number of websites talking about cats that like being spanked.
Spank on, OP! Cats LOVE it!
GPIA7R on
0
ceresWhen the last moon is cast over the last star of morningAnd the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderatormod
edited September 2010
I am going to lock this thread. Then I'm going to get up and get a glass of something very strong.
Then I am going to come back to my desk and come down like the hammer of God on just about everyone who posted in this thread.
Look forward to it. I know I do.
ceres on
And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
0
ceresWhen the last moon is cast over the last star of morningAnd the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderatormod
edited September 2010
I have thought this through.
- If you advocated violence of any kind toward animal or human, I am going to give you an infraction.
- If you argued with people who advocated said violence in more than one post, I am going to give you an infraction.
- If you made a retarded comparison between hitting babies and hitting cats, I am going to give you an infraction.
- To the fucker who related the story about putting the cat in the freezer, what the fuck? Seriously. I will settle for giving you an infraction.
If you did more than one of these things in separate posts, you will get more than one infraction. Have fun with your new avatar.
If you have a problem with this, please refer to Figure 1. Then go to D&D and learn what a debate forum looks like. Then come back, read the rules again, and realize that this isn't it.
ceres on
And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
Posts
You see the bad, the worst end of the spectrum. The "abuse" side, which no one here is advocating. Step off your high horse. What works for you may not work for others. All pets are unique, different, and react as such.
Yeah especially since I know how she's getting up there. I can just layer it right on that spot.
If you don't want to listen, that's fine. I have more experience in this area than you do on how to TRAIN animals. That is what he was asking for and I provided the BEST METHOD for TRAINING a cat to not do what he said.
I don't claim to be all knowing in other areas. I'm not even all knowing in animal training by far yet. But I work hard at it and someday I will be a real expert in the field.
edit: I have yelled at and scruffed my cats neck before. Then I take a breath and use positive reinforcement to make my little demon stop chewing on cords. I'm not demonizing anyone here, I just want people to know, 100%, that you can have more success with other methods. Okay, I'm done now. Sorry.
And the ASPCA: http://www.aspcabehavior.org/articles/117/Training-Your-Cat.aspx
I should've done this first off. Thanks, Vision.
If they scratch at the door, ignore it. Because if you reinforce it by coming to the door, they'll assume to get attention they should scratch.
To stop them from climbing up on counters is a bit trickier, you're going to have to put away things like half-drunk cans of soda (or get bottles instead to reseal, hey no more wasting!), take glasses off the counter. After a few dozen broken glasses and paying for replacements you learn not to do it anymore. The best way to reinforce a bad behavior while you're already interacting with them is to pick them up, place them down in a "safe spot" and tell them in a firm voice "No." Yelling doesn't do shit either.
They get the idea, but cats in particular like to be little shits so YMMV. Most of the time cats just won't do it while you're around, though if you start them young they'll just associate it with something they shouldn't do rather than "oh there must be something good up there, like food, or water!"
I preferred the mewing.
My cat waterboards mice.
Sweet mother of God. I hope this doesn't happen.
Hasn't done it for a little while, but that's what really gets me.
Growing up one of my cats did this. No meowing at all. Just sticking their paws underneath the door and rattling. Seemed to stop on its own. He only did it when he wanted attention.
I never advocate hitting a cat, but to say they don't learn anything from it is false. To say that all physical contact with a cat is abuse is wrong too. Anecdotally, my friend's cat LOVES being patted HARD, like the way you might really smack a large dog's haunches. That area just fore of the tail where cats like being scratched? He likes that area hit HARD. I'd never seen such a thing before.
The trick is finding things that your cat specifically doesn't like. One of my cats, Princess, responded very well to loud noises. When I saw her going for a desk I didn't want her on, I just loudly and sharply said "HEY!" and she would freeze in her tracks and look at me. Then I just picked her up and put her somewhere else.
The younger cat, Duke, loud noises do absolutely nothing. You can clap, sharply say NO or HEY... no effect. He just powers through it. So I do the same thing as with Princess, pick him up and put him somewhere else. He immediately just runs back to where I don't want him. I repeat the process, except this time when he runs back I scoop him up with one hand and give him a little flick on the forehead and then put him down. Nothing that would injure him. The point isn't to injure or make the cat feel pain, the point is to quickly surprise the cat with something it doesn't like.
For long range training I used a toy airsoft gun, one of those miniature electrics. Don't freak out, I didn't ever shoot a BB at the cats. These guns make lots of sharp mechanical noises. I would shoot a BB at a wall near the offending cat, and it would bounce around and really freak out the cat, sorta like throwing an empty coke can with a penny inside it: it just makes a racket that startles them out of their bad behavior. After a short bit of this, I didn't even keep the gun loaded. All I had to do what shoot it empty and it still makes the sharp sounds and the cats stop what they are doing. Not long after, all I have to do is reach for the gun.
Cats are not dumb, are extremely observant, and will not necessarily be fearful of you just because you scared them. Like I said before, all cats are different, but in my experience with my own cats they were never fearful of me. They can learn that when they are being little shits, they get treated like little shits, and when they are nice, they get treated nice. These cats were actually my roommates cats, and he was constantly remarking how much they loved me compared to anyone else in the house. He called me the cat whisperer and thanked me many times for turning his cats from little terrors into peaceful housemates.
The most important thing to remember when trying any techniques in this thread is a great big YMMV. You just have to be kind, firm, and creative. The better you know your cats the better you can train them.
He's got the rhythm down and everything. Rocks it just right so it bangs on the hinges.
Sheep, try putting a desk fan outside your door, blowing across the frame. It keeps our cats from wanting to go anywhere near the door, ditto for my old roommate's cats. We also cut up one of those flexible plastic floor mat things people use to put under rolly chairs on carpet and put the pieces under the doorjam, it keeps them from scratching (or at least it will keep the scratching from causing damage, ours quit scratching after a couple of nights).
We have to use the fan because our cats have also figured out how to open doors. It's only a matter of time before they figure out where I keep my keys and how to start the car. And then phase 2 of their plan begins.
no one is saying hit a cat. (and equating it to punching a baby?!) a light flick or smack isn't going to hurt a cat.
Nobody is saying choke your kittens. Or beat them until they are scared of you. Popping a cat on the bottom to get it to stay off the damn counter is not only perfectly acceptable but pretty much a proven solution. Cats don't like to be popped on the bottom. My cat equates screwing around on the counter with momma gonna spank my bottom. So she doesn't do it, because the counter is less fun when the only thing you find on it is a spank on the ass.
Just because YOU can't control yourself when you physically strike an animal doesn't mean every person who strikes one is doing it to be cruel, or unable to control themselves to a point they don't break bones or brain the thing.
Let me guess, spanking your children is child abuse also? EDIT OH WAIT YOU DO THINK ITS CHILD ABUSE. BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
GET OVER YOURSELF. Goes Double now.
....
I have no idea why you're equating a cat to a baby.
edit: I guess this should be taken to D&D or something sorry for the lack of good advice. My cat always does bad stuff when I'm not around and it's usually not bad enough that I feel it needs correcting
CATS are NOT BABIES.
Stop making that analogy.
A) Abuse (it's not)
C) Wrong in any way (it's not)
Now, abuse? That's wrong. And there is such a major difference between "hitting" and "abuse" that it shouldn't have to be explained to people that claim to be functioning, rational people. The next person that has some 3 paragraph spiel about how evil it is to touch an animal in a disciplinary fashion is getting a massive cockslap.
That being said, you should certainly seek training of some kind or work with other methods if you want. I don't think hitting something is the first and last resort to training anything. I just know it's an option. I've owned a few animals in my day and guess what? Hitting them a few times didn't make them scared of me at all.
I did have a friend who, whenever his cat would scratch up furniture or do something else equally retarded (seriously, this cat was the devil), he would let it cool off in the freezer for a little while. I don't agree with that method at all, but the cat did turn from it's evil ways quite quickly.
I guess my point is don't own cats.
Wow.
Honky, man, find a method that works for you. I think ignoring it for a while will help, and I hope it does. It's really crappy to have to put up with it, and have very few options to immediately resolve it.
On a side note - There are people out there that set cats on fire, pummel dogs to death, microwave animals, etc. Choose your battles people. Smacking (not beating, not punching, not any violent word you want to substitute with) an animal is fine. If you don't want to do it, don't. But choose your battles. Go after the sick people that do the disgustingly violent shit, and stop trying to equate smacking a cat or a dog with hurting an infant.
If you wish to think that we're bad, terrible people for doing so, I couldn't care less. I remain happy, and you remain irrationally angry and powerless. Animal abuse is wrong. Animal cruelty is wrong. Punishing and training animals in a way that works without truly harming the animal physically is just fine.
READ. THESE. LINKS.
Edit: I just went looking, and found an alarming number of websites talking about cats that like being spanked.
Spank on, OP! Cats LOVE it!
Then I am going to come back to my desk and come down like the hammer of God on just about everyone who posted in this thread.
Look forward to it. I know I do.
- If you advocated violence of any kind toward animal or human, I am going to give you an infraction.
- If you argued with people who advocated said violence in more than one post, I am going to give you an infraction.
- If you made a retarded comparison between hitting babies and hitting cats, I am going to give you an infraction.
- To the fucker who related the story about putting the cat in the freezer, what the fuck? Seriously. I will settle for giving you an infraction.
If you did more than one of these things in separate posts, you will get more than one infraction. Have fun with your new avatar.
If you have a problem with this, please refer to Figure 1. Then go to D&D and learn what a debate forum looks like. Then come back, read the rules again, and realize that this isn't it.