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Niche Gaming and Joe Maddenite

24

Posts

  • Wonder_HippieWonder_Hippie __BANNED USERS
    edited May 2007
    People toss around the word "elitist" very frequently when shit like this comes up. Call me elitist if you will, but after working in a college town EB for a year I can't help but feel that the Madden- or Halo-exclusive gamers are actively destructive to the industry. These are the people for whom the True Crime games were made. These are the people that Atari was aiming at when they sodomized the Driver franchise. These are the people 187 Ride or Die, 50 Cent: Bulletproof, and Pimp My Ride were directed towards.

    Yes, they hurt the industry. Yes, they cause developers to direct money towards products they think will sell to them rather than endorsing projects that are innovative or stylish or original. Gun-toting badasses with bland gameplay are favored over the creative titles with bright, candy-laden creatures.

    Does that mean those new titles will stop? No. Does it mean that they won't be as popular or successful as they should? Abso-fucking-lutely. And that hurts the chances of that kind of stuff being carried on to future titles. When Mr. Turkeyneck at the top of Major Gaming Corporation sees the disparity between the sales of Innovative Title and the grossly more popular Sports Title, where do you think the money goes?

    Spoiler:
  • Kewop DecamKewop Decam Registered User
    edited May 2007
    Evander wrote: »
    My issue with Joe Maddenite is that he tends to be an uninformed consumer (just buying the new version of whatever every year, rather than looking into what he's buying, and what else is out there), and I have issues with any uninformed consumer.

    Put it in terms of a gourmet watching a dude who eats McDonalds for lunch every day.

    why do you care how someone spends their money? I've seen people have more fun playing bad games like Beat Down than Okami or whatever one would herald as a true game.

    pasigfa7.jpg
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    ben0207 wrote: »
    Aroduc wrote: »
    LewieP wrote: »
    Aroduc wrote: »
    LewieP wrote: »
    oh, and for eveyone pronouncing "Niche" in their heads it's "Neee-sh"

    Actually, 'nitch' is acceptable pronunciation as well, and I'm pretty sure a lot more common.
    wrong. flat out wrong.

    Whats the 'e' there for then dammit!

    [/language pedant]

    Pedants are supposed to be right, you spazz. :P Take it up with Merriam Webster.

    "Nitch" would be a regional accent. The correct pronunciation, given it's French etymology, would indeed be "Neesh"

    Miriam Webster can go fuck herself :lol:
    Do you pronounce New Orleans like how the French pronounce Orleans? Pronunciation can change over time.

  • AroducAroduc regular
    edited May 2007
    ben0207 wrote: »
    "Nitch" would be a regional accent. The correct pronunciation, given it's French etymology, would indeed be "Neesh"

    Miriam Webster can go fuck herself :lol:

    North America is not a region! And I'm pretty none of the three people who made up the Merriam-Webster conglomerate were females. :P
    Evander wrote: »
    My issue with Joe Maddenite is that he tends to be an uninformed consumer (just buying the new version of whatever every year, rather than looking into what he's buying, and what else is out there), and I have issues with any uninformed consumer.

    Put it in terms of a gourmet watching a dude who eats McDonalds for lunch every day.

    Actually, wouldn't it be closer to someone who just eats at the same restaurant every day. The Madden games are... you know... actually games. And there has been enough competition to keep them evolving and improving in step over the years. It isn't like they're the absolute garbage of the game world.

  • Vincent GraysonVincent Grayson Frederick, MDRegistered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Stupornaut wrote: »
    OK, I think I've figured out hardcore gamer logic:

    -Masses buy Madden and 50 Cent: Bulletproof in droves: CASUAL GAMERS ARE STUPID SHEEP
    -Masses buy Wii and DS in droves: CASUAL GAMERS ARE THE FUTURE, YAY

    I mean obviously this is reducing the argument to a pretty base (read: stupid) level but I'm not entirely compelled to judge a game or system positively (or negatively) by how much it sells. The DS isn't great because [INSERT MEME ABOUT CURRENCY PRODUCTION HERE], but because it's got something for you whether you like 2D Castlevanias or quickie puzzle games or adventure-style story games or Mario Does Something Again. Madden doesn't suck because it sells, it "sucks" because you don't like football (or have played NFL 2K5).

    I don't know about anyone else, but I wouldn't refer to the "OMG, it turns out games are fun!" Wii purchasers as the same kind of "casual" gamer that buys Madden, Halo, and nothing else. The latter are not casual gamers, they're mainstream gamers, and I think there's a big difference.

  • SamphisSamphis Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Evander wrote: »
    My issue with Joe Maddenite is that he tends to be an uninformed consumer (just buying the new version of whatever every year, rather than looking into what he's buying, and what else is out there), and I have issues with any uninformed consumer.

    Put it in terms of a gourmet watching a dude who eats McDonalds for lunch every day.

    How do you know that he's uninformed? He might like Madden.

    And in your terms, a gourmet is going to get just as fat as the guy eating McDonalds every day. Different tastes, just as filling--whether it's a game or a meal.

    I used to think that sandbox games were stupid, and I couldn't understand the allure of Grand Theft Auto. Recently I've discovered that they can be a lot of fun. I can enjoy them and still like Nintendo "kiddy" games and super nerd cred games like Katamari.

    But if I only play one genre, or one series, I'd still be fed from that one series. If that's what I like, that's what I play. Who the hell cares what the fricking gourmet thinks.

  • Kewop DecamKewop Decam Registered User
    edited May 2007
    actually Madden has beeen pur garbage since the new gen, but that's not the topic at hand.

    Different people like different games which is good. i guess you can call it bad if you hate EA because the sells of Madden is what allows them to do most of the things they do like eat up smaller companies

    pasigfa7.jpg
  • DagrabbitDagrabbit Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Yes, they hurt the industry. Yes, they cause developers to direct money towards products they think will sell to them rather than endorsing projects that are innovative or stylish or original. Gun-toting badasses with bland gameplay are favored over the creative titles with bright, candy-laden creatures.

    But if most people who play games want to play those games, and they sell well, is the industry really being hurt?

  • TingleTingle __BANNED USERS
    edited May 2007
    Dagrabbit wrote: »
    Yes, perhaps platform game was the wrong term to use. But none the less, you do wander the world blocked by arbitrary boundaries which can only be removed by following the fairly linear path to the new ability you'll use and then forget about after 2 hours, all while collecting various different objects for no particularily clear reason aside from getting better/earning items.

    It's fun to an extent, but definitely felt incredibly derivative, and was only notable in any way because of how it looked.

    This is one of the reasons I wanted to include q niche gaming discussion in this thread. A lot of the niche games that people on this board like, I actually don't like at all. Sometimes people seem shocked that game X didn't see as well as Halo, but the games might not actually be all that great. In the Okami example, I think it's possible to like the art-style so much you forgive the other flaws (or Psychonauts' sense of humor), but that doesn't mean that those flaws don't exist. People less enamored with those aspects of the game might more readily see the flaws and think the game isn't very good.
    We aren't really talking about that though, but about people who shrug off the game before even knowing anything else about it (i.e. whether it is good or not) because of the art style. Maybe The WInd Waker would be a better example to use?

    Also, does anyone have any screenshots or something of that Impressionist Chrono Cross level? I never played that game but that level sounds very intriguing.

  • LeitnerLeitner Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Does it mean that they won't be as popular or successful as they should?

    Why should they be successful? Why are they more deserving then a 'less good' game that is widely popular?

  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Zhu-Li, do the thing! Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Aroduc wrote: »
    Actually, wouldn't it be closer to someone who just eats at the same restaurant every day. The Madden games are... you know... actually games. And there has been enough competition to keep them evolving and improving in step over the years.

    Or at least there used to be until EA bought the exclusive rights to the NFL.

    And since nobody read my post, "Joe Maddenite" does NOT refer to people who enjoy Madden, it refers to the depressingly high number of people who ONLY buy Madden, refuse to buy anything else and actively slag anyone who does.

    3DS: 0344-9335-6762
  • Kewop DecamKewop Decam Registered User
    edited May 2007
    SC wrote: »
    Does it mean that they won't be as popular or successful as they should?

    Why should they be successful? Why are they more deserving then a 'less good' game that is widely popular?



    They shouldn't and your favorite non-popular game doesn't deserve shit either.

    How do you want the "mainstream" guy to buy Okami when he's never even heard of the shit? The thing ost of the games that are good, but sell like shit have in common is the lack of advertisement

    pasigfa7.jpg
  • OtakuD00DOtakuD00D Too stupid to feel pain. San DiegoRegistered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Evander wrote: »
    My issue with Joe Maddenite is that he tends to be an uninformed consumer (just buying the new version of whatever every year, rather than looking into what he's buying, and what else is out there), and I have issues with any uninformed consumer.

    Put it in terms of a gourmet watching a dude who eats McDonalds for lunch every day.

    why do you care how someone spends their money? I've seen people have more fun playing bad games like Beat Down than Okami or whatever one would herald as a true game.

    Because damn it, we love our industry to death and I for one, do NOT want to see it taken over by the Quick-Buck Shovelware/Annual Sports Game Release bullshit.

    makosig.jpg
  • Wonder_HippieWonder_Hippie __BANNED USERS
    edited May 2007
    Stupornaut wrote: »
    OK, I think I've figured out hardcore gamer logic:

    -Masses buy Madden and 50 Cent: Bulletproof in droves: CASUAL GAMERS ARE STUPID SHEEP
    -Masses buy Wii and DS in droves: CASUAL GAMERS ARE THE FUTURE, YAY

    There's an inherent difference between the masses that are buying the Wii and the masses that are buying Madden. It seems like the Wii appeals to everybody. Period. People. Human beings. Madden will still put off those people that feel like they can't play video games, my father being the perfect example. No matter how much he likes a sport, he can't wrap his mind around putting his hands on a controller and making the dude on the screen move. With the Wii, however, he can almost immediately grasp it and start tossing some balls down the lane.

    Spoiler:
  • edited May 2007
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Aroduc wrote: »
    Actually, wouldn't it be closer to someone who just eats at the same restaurant every day. The Madden games are... you know... actually games. And there has been enough competition to keep them evolving and improving in step over the years.

    Or at least there used to be until EA bought the exclusive rights to the NFL.

    And since nobody read my post, "Joe Maddenite" does NOT refer to people who enjoy Madden, it refers to the depressingly high number of people who ONLY buy Madden, refuse to buy anything else and actively slag anyone who does.
    I like how you include "actively slag anyone who does" to make them sound more sinister. Taking your generalization a little far, don't you think?

  • edited May 2007
    OtakuD00D wrote: »
    Because damn it, we love our industry to death and I for one, do NOT want to see it taken over by the Quick-Buck Shovelware/Annual Sports Game Release bullshit.
    Quick-buck shovelware/annual sports game releases have been around since the NES days, yet the industry still seems to be fine.

  • SamphisSamphis Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    This is like indie-rock nerds arguing about indie-cred versus mainstream music.

    And it's just as stupid.
    Spoiler:

  • Kewop DecamKewop Decam Registered User
    edited May 2007
    OtakuD00D wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    My issue with Joe Maddenite is that he tends to be an uninformed consumer (just buying the new version of whatever every year, rather than looking into what he's buying, and what else is out there), and I have issues with any uninformed consumer.

    Put it in terms of a gourmet watching a dude who eats McDonalds for lunch every day.

    why do you care how someone spends their money? I've seen people have more fun playing bad games like Beat Down than Okami or whatever one would herald as a true game.

    Because damn it, we love our industry to death and I for one, do NOT want to see it taken over by the Quick-Buck Shovelware/Annual Sports Game Release bullshit.


    but it won't, so why are you worrying about that? There will always be original titles here and there.

    pasigfa7.jpg
  • AroducAroduc regular
    edited May 2007
    OtakuD00D wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    My issue with Joe Maddenite is that he tends to be an uninformed consumer (just buying the new version of whatever every year, rather than looking into what he's buying, and what else is out there), and I have issues with any uninformed consumer.

    Put it in terms of a gourmet watching a dude who eats McDonalds for lunch every day.

    why do you care how someone spends their money? I've seen people have more fun playing bad games like Beat Down than Okami or whatever one would herald as a true game.

    Because damn it, we love our industry to death and I for one, do NOT want to see it taken over by the Quick-Buck Shovelware/Annual Sports Game Release bullshit.

    Ah, a vendetta against profitable business practices. Sorry you silly little Popcap games. The real gamers are MAD AT YOU. Sorry XBox Live MarketPlace and your Unos and Catans, you only took a week to code and are just there for the cash-in, you're destroying the gaming industry. Off with you, and bring me more chardonnay.

  • OtakuD00DOtakuD00D Too stupid to feel pain. San DiegoRegistered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Kevar wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Aroduc wrote: »
    Actually, wouldn't it be closer to someone who just eats at the same restaurant every day. The Madden games are... you know... actually games. And there has been enough competition to keep them evolving and improving in step over the years.

    Or at least there used to be until EA bought the exclusive rights to the NFL.

    And since nobody read my post, "Joe Maddenite" does NOT refer to people who enjoy Madden, it refers to the depressingly high number of people who ONLY buy Madden, refuse to buy anything else and actively slag anyone who does.
    I like how you include "actively slag anyone who does" to make them sound more sinister. Taking your generalization a little far, don't you think?

    Nope, because that's what Joe Maddenite applies to. We keep repeating it. We don't have a problem with people who buy madden in general. Our beef is with, I repeat, the dumb fucks who exclusively buy madden and have the nerve to insult anyone who does anything otherwise.

    makosig.jpg
  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Zhu-Li, do the thing! Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Kevar wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Aroduc wrote: »
    Actually, wouldn't it be closer to someone who just eats at the same restaurant every day. The Madden games are... you know... actually games. And there has been enough competition to keep them evolving and improving in step over the years.

    Or at least there used to be until EA bought the exclusive rights to the NFL.

    And since nobody read my post, "Joe Maddenite" does NOT refer to people who enjoy Madden, it refers to the depressingly high number of people who ONLY buy Madden, refuse to buy anything else and actively slag anyone who does.
    I like how you include "actively slag anyone who does" to make them sound more sinister. Taking your generalization a little far, don't you think?

    Obviously you haven't been to college yet.

    These people exist, in great numbers. They've slagged my suggestions of, hell, any other game to my face.

    3DS: 0344-9335-6762
  • LeitnerLeitner Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    SC wrote: »
    Does it mean that they won't be as popular or successful as they should?

    Why should they be successful? Why are they more deserving then a 'less good' game that is widely popular?



    They shouldn't and your favorite non-popular game doesn't deserve shit either.

    How do you want the "mainstream" guy to buy Okami when he's never even heard of the shit? The thing ost of the games that are good, but sell like shit have in common is the lack of advertisement

    We appear to be talking past each other. I was wondering why people feel certain games they love are more deserving of purchase then your Madden or your Halos. I don't believe they are.

  • Kewop DecamKewop Decam Registered User
    edited May 2007
    OtakuD00D wrote: »
    Kevar wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Aroduc wrote: »
    Actually, wouldn't it be closer to someone who just eats at the same restaurant every day. The Madden games are... you know... actually games. And there has been enough competition to keep them evolving and improving in step over the years.

    Or at least there used to be until EA bought the exclusive rights to the NFL.

    And since nobody read my post, "Joe Maddenite" does NOT refer to people who enjoy Madden, it refers to the depressingly high number of people who ONLY buy Madden, refuse to buy anything else and actively slag anyone who does.
    I like how you include "actively slag anyone who does" to make them sound more sinister. Taking your generalization a little far, don't you think?

    Nope, because that's what Joe Maddenite applies to. We keep repeating it. We don't have a problem with people who buy madden in general. Our beef is with, I repeat, the dumb fucks who exclusively buy madden and have the nerve to insult anyone who does anything otherwise.


    I don't know anyone who insults people for playing games outside of madden and i know A LOT of madden players.

    pasigfa7.jpg
  • DVGDVG Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    To actually interject something into this thread, I don't like sports games all that much. Mostly because if I want to play football, I'll call up my friends and go toss a football around, and I'm increasingly frugal with my gaming selections and updating the football games every year seems like a waste when I can hold it back for something that is going to interest me more.

    I do, however, have lots of friends who play sports games a lot, and good for them. I fail to see how a Madden player can be considered an "uninformed consumer" when they just buy what they like to play. That's silly. Hell, being a "hardcore gamer" who keeps their fingers on the pulse of the gaming business will get bit on the ass when they fall victim to the hype engine and buy a game that seemed like it would be great and ended up being garbage, whereas the Madden gamer will buy his copy every year and continue to enjoy his game time.

    Diablo 3 - DVG#1857
  • AroducAroduc regular
    edited May 2007
    OtakuD00D wrote: »
    Kevar wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Aroduc wrote: »
    Actually, wouldn't it be closer to someone who just eats at the same restaurant every day. The Madden games are... you know... actually games. And there has been enough competition to keep them evolving and improving in step over the years.

    Or at least there used to be until EA bought the exclusive rights to the NFL.

    And since nobody read my post, "Joe Maddenite" does NOT refer to people who enjoy Madden, it refers to the depressingly high number of people who ONLY buy Madden, refuse to buy anything else and actively slag anyone who does.
    I like how you include "actively slag anyone who does" to make them sound more sinister. Taking your generalization a little far, don't you think?

    Nope, because that's what Joe Maddenite applies to. We keep repeating it. We don't have a problem with people who buy madden in general. Our beef is with, I repeat, the dumb fucks who exclusively buy madden and have the nerve to insult anyone who does anything otherwise.

    Do these people even exist? I've never met one. Or do they just sit in their frat houses 24/7, get drunk, steal our women and jobs, and for being a powerful market force, never use the internet?

  • Kewop DecamKewop Decam Registered User
    edited May 2007
    SC wrote: »
    SC wrote: »
    Does it mean that they won't be as popular or successful as they should?

    Why should they be successful? Why are they more deserving then a 'less good' game that is widely popular?



    They shouldn't and your favorite non-popular game doesn't deserve shit either.

    How do you want the "mainstream" guy to buy Okami when he's never even heard of the shit? The thing ost of the games that are good, but sell like shit have in common is the lack of advertisement

    We appear to be talking past each other. I was wondering why people feel certain games they love are more deserving of purchase then your Madden or your Halos. I don't believe they are.


    I'm agreeing with ya, just too lazy to do the whole lime thing

    pasigfa7.jpg
  • AntishowAntishow Registered User
    edited May 2007
    I'm more than fairly certain that the disdain for the Maddenites has more to do with the eternal "Jock/Nerd" struggle than anything else...

    Either way, if you happen to be a person that thinks Madden is the epitomy of quality gaming, you're just plain wrong, period. You just have bad taste, and that's all there is to it. It doesn't mean you're retarded, or that I'm better than you; simply that (objectively speaking) you have bad taste (in video games). If I'm an elitist douche for pointing that out then so be it, I'll sleep just fine.

  • OtakuD00DOtakuD00D Too stupid to feel pain. San DiegoRegistered User regular
    edited May 2007
    OtakuD00D wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    My issue with Joe Maddenite is that he tends to be an uninformed consumer (just buying the new version of whatever every year, rather than looking into what he's buying, and what else is out there), and I have issues with any uninformed consumer.

    Put it in terms of a gourmet watching a dude who eats McDonalds for lunch every day.

    why do you care how someone spends their money? I've seen people have more fun playing bad games like Beat Down than Okami or whatever one would herald as a true game.

    Because damn it, we love our industry to death and I for one, do NOT want to see it taken over by the Quick-Buck Shovelware/Annual Sports Game Release bullshit.


    but it won't, so why are you worrying about that? There will always be original titles here and there.

    Not in the quantities that they should be at, or at the exposure they should have. The game industry would be a sad, sad mess if EVERYONE had EA's mentality from a couple years back, around the time they exclusively bought out the NFL license and pumped out Sims expansion pack after expansion pack, and killed off companies like Westwood.
    Aroduc wrote: »
    OtakuD00D wrote: »
    Kevar wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Aroduc wrote: »
    Actually, wouldn't it be closer to someone who just eats at the same restaurant every day. The Madden games are... you know... actually games. And there has been enough competition to keep them evolving and improving in step over the years.

    Or at least there used to be until EA bought the exclusive rights to the NFL.

    And since nobody read my post, "Joe Maddenite" does NOT refer to people who enjoy Madden, it refers to the depressingly high number of people who ONLY buy Madden, refuse to buy anything else and actively slag anyone who does.
    I like how you include "actively slag anyone who does" to make them sound more sinister. Taking your generalization a little far, don't you think?

    Nope, because that's what Joe Maddenite applies to. We keep repeating it. We don't have a problem with people who buy madden in general. Our beef is with, I repeat, the dumb fucks who exclusively buy madden and have the nerve to insult anyone who does anything otherwise.

    Do these people even exist? I've never met one. Or do they just sit in their frat houses 24/7, get drunk, steal our women and jobs, and for being a powerful market force, never use the internet?

    They do. One of them actually visited our store. It was an act of total willpower not to laugh him out of the building. There's a few like that but that guy in particular was the most blatant one.

    makosig.jpg
  • edited May 2007
    OtakuD00D wrote: »
    Nope, because that's what Joe Maddenite applies to. We keep repeating it. We don't have a problem with people who buy madden in general. Our beef is with, I repeat, the dumb fucks who exclusively buy madden and have the nerve to insult anyone who does anything otherwise.
    I see your point. Your imaginary, hypothetical person fills me with rage. I am going to go take out my anger on anything related to Madden and its fan base.

  • DesertBoxDesertBox Registered User
    edited May 2007
    People toss around the word "elitist" very frequently when shit like this comes up. Call me elitist if you will, but after working in a college town EB for a year I can't help but feel that the Madden- or Halo-exclusive gamers are actively destructive to the industry. These are the people for whom the True Crime games were made. These are the people that Atari was aiming at when they sodomized the Driver franchise. These are the people 187 Ride or Die, 50 Cent: Bulletproof, and Pimp My Ride were directed towards.

    Yes, they hurt the industry. Yes, they cause developers to direct money towards products they think will sell to them rather than endorsing projects that are innovative or stylish or original. Gun-toting badasses with bland gameplay are favored over the creative titles with bright, candy-laden creatures.

    Does that mean those new titles will stop? No. Does it mean that they won't be as popular or successful as they should? Abso-fucking-lutely. And that hurts the chances of that kind of stuff being carried on to future titles. When Mr. Turkeyneck at the top of Major Gaming Corporation sees the disparity between the sales of Innovative Title and the grossly more popular Sports Title, where do you think the money goes?

    I don't see how they hurt the industry. These ppl would likely not be buying games at all if it weren't for those games. Hell, they might even get into other types of games. I got back into games to play Halo and lead my school to the BCS champ (which they kindly re-enacted in real-life. Go Gators!), but after I was done with those games I got into other games like Psychonauts and RPGs (which I thought I would never enjoy).

    Granted many people never get past Madden, but so what? That has no effect. I think if the Madden games didn't exist, the Innovative titles you speak of would see even less sale, because there would be no mainstream gamers at all to venture there.

    Also, innovation isn't always good. They could very well innovate a new way to bore me to tears. Doesn't mean I should buy it. I'll take same-old tired thrills over that.

    PS. On a side note, as innovative as Psychonauts might be, I'm currently halfway through it and I can see why it failed. The levels (minds) are exciting but traversing through the camp can be a tedious collectathon that is almost devoid of character interaction.

    Spoiler:
  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Zhu-Li, do the thing! Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Apparently people think that "Joe Maddenite" refers to non-Maddenites who enjoy Madden, despite repeated assertions to the contrary.

    Duly noted.

    3DS: 0344-9335-6762
  • EvanderEvander Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Kevar wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    My issue with Joe Maddenite is that he tends to be an uninformed consumer (just buying the new version of whatever every year, rather than looking into what he's buying, and what else is out there), and I have issues with any uninformed consumer.

    Put it in terms of a gourmet watching a dude who eats McDonalds for lunch every day.
    The gaming industry is fortunate, however, that its best-selling products actually happen to be very good. You might not be a fan of Halo or Madden, and you might think they don't deserve the sales when you think superior products exist, but they are far from bad games. The only negative attribute I can think of is that licensed shovelware sells so well.

    There was a "Top 100 2006" game list posted and 14 of the 20 top selling games scored over 90% on GameRankings. The only really, truly excellent game that didn't sell well was Okami.

    Oh, I agree that the gaming industry is fortunate.

    But look at what happened in 2005-2006 with football games. the 2K series was abl to win over a sizable chunk of Joe Maddenites. EA did some stuff that, while legal, was highly unethical, rather than simply improving their product, and the next year, the Joe maddenites just shrugged, and went back to buying madden.

    The whole shrugging, and shelling out to EA is the type of thing that bothers me.

    georgersig.jpg
  • Kewop DecamKewop Decam Registered User
    edited May 2007
    OtakuD00D wrote: »
    OtakuD00D wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    My issue with Joe Maddenite is that he tends to be an uninformed consumer (just buying the new version of whatever every year, rather than looking into what he's buying, and what else is out there), and I have issues with any uninformed consumer.

    Put it in terms of a gourmet watching a dude who eats McDonalds for lunch every day.

    why do you care how someone spends their money? I've seen people have more fun playing bad games like Beat Down than Okami or whatever one would herald as a true game.

    Because damn it, we love our industry to death and I for one, do NOT want to see it taken over by the Quick-Buck Shovelware/Annual Sports Game Release bullshit.


    but it won't, so why are you worrying about that? There will always be original titles here and there.

    Not in the quantities that they should be at, or at the exposure they should have. The game industry would be a sad, sad mess if EVERYONE had EA's mentality from a couple years back, around the time they exclusively bought out the NFL license and pumped out Sims expansion pack after expansion pack, and killed off companies like Westwood.
    OtakuD00D wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    My issue with Joe Maddenite is that he tends to be an uninformed consumer (just buying the new version of whatever every year, rather than looking into what he's buying, and what else is out there), and I have issues with any uninformed consumer.

    Put it in terms of a gourmet watching a dude who eats McDonalds for lunch every day.

    why do you care how someone spends their money? I've seen people have more fun playing bad games like Beat Down than Okami or whatever one would herald as a true game.

    Because damn it, we love our industry to death and I for one, do NOT want to see it taken over by the Quick-Buck Shovelware/Annual Sports Game Release bullshit.


    but it won't, so why are you worrying about that? There will always be original titles here and there.

    Not in the quantities that they should be at, or at the exposure they should have. The game industry would be a sad, sad mess if EVERYONE had EA's mentality from a couple years back, around the time they exclusively bought out the NFL license and pumped out Sims expansion pack after expansion pack, and killed off companies like Westwood.
    Aroduc wrote: »
    OtakuD00D wrote: »
    Kevar wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Aroduc wrote: »
    Actually, wouldn't it be closer to someone who just eats at the same restaurant every day. The Madden games are... you know... actually games. And there has been enough competition to keep them evolving and improving in step over the years.

    Or at least there used to be until EA bought the exclusive rights to the NFL.

    And since nobody read my post, "Joe Maddenite" does NOT refer to people who enjoy Madden, it refers to the depressingly high number of people who ONLY buy Madden, refuse to buy anything else and actively slag anyone who does.
    I like how you include "actively slag anyone who does" to make them sound more sinister. Taking your generalization a little far, don't you think?

    Nope, because that's what Joe Maddenite applies to. We keep repeating it. We don't have a problem with people who buy madden in general. Our beef is with, I repeat, the dumb fucks who exclusively buy madden and have the nerve to insult anyone who does anything otherwise.

    Do these people even exist? I've never met one. Or do they just sit in their frat houses 24/7, get drunk, steal our women and jobs, and for being a powerful market force, never use the internet?

    They do. One of them actually visited our store. It was an act of total willpower not to laugh him out of the building. There's a few like that but that guy in particular was the most blatant one.

    Lets get on thing straight... The whole NFL license thing was the NFL's doing, NOT EA's. EA was the only company would could afford what the NFL was asking for.

    Also, unique games aren't getting enough exposure? Is that really the rehashes fault? I mean, didn't Gears get plenty of exposure? Mass Effect? There are some games that don't, but blaming these other games and practices for that doesn't make much sense

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  • edited May 2007
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Obviously you haven't been to college yet.
    You're good at this.
    These people exist, in great numbers. They've slagged my suggestions of, hell, any other game to my face.
    Wait, you're suggesting games to them? Well, since we love making assumptions, I'm going to assume you're an obnoxious individual who shrieks every time he sees Madden on a television, then immediately sprouts off (with no pitch control over his own voice) about how Okami is superior and well and just and all that is right with the gaming industry, and playing Madden makes you an uncouth philistine.

    This is fun.

  • LunkerLunker Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Stupornaut wrote: »
    OK, I think I've figured out hardcore gamer logic:

    -Masses buy Madden and 50 Cent: Bulletproof in droves: CASUAL GAMERS ARE STUPID SHEEP
    -Masses buy Wii and DS in droves: CASUAL GAMERS ARE THE FUTURE, YAY

    I mean obviously this is reducing the argument to a pretty base (read: stupid) level but I'm not entirely compelled to judge a game or system positively (or negatively) by how much it sells. The DS isn't great because [INSERT MEME ABOUT CURRENCY PRODUCTION HERE], but because it's got something for you whether you like 2D Castlevanias or quickie puzzle games or adventure-style story games or Mario Does Something Again. Madden doesn't suck because it sells, it "sucks" because you don't like football (or have played NFL 2K5).
    Well, I think the arguments between sales of software and sales of hardware differ, because in general the larger install base is usually something to celebrate because that means you'll get more of everything, ranging from that art-house cult classic you have to import from Play-Asia to the next iteration of Madden. Like you said: The DS pretty much has something for everyone at this point, as did the PS2 before it, and the larger install bases are attractive to publishers/developers because they'll typically angle more projects toward those platforms.

    To the topic at hand, though, there's really nothing inherently wrong about liking Madden and only Madden -- I think, at its core, the problem a lot of die-hard gamers have is that a lot of people don't take gaming as seriously as they do. I've come to acknowledge this, and it saves me a lot of grief. A lot of people are completely fine with games that fill the slots they want, and they don't really care about the "better" or "worse" qualities of the games. I mean, you can argue ESPN 2K5 was the better sports title than Madden '05, but most people aren't going to really care because, you know, it's a football game, and I just want to buy a football game.

    Anecdote ahead: My brother doesn't play Madden but he's as "casual" of a gamer as they come -- buys GTA, Mercenaries and other sandbox games solely to blow shit up, bought Enter the Matrix at full price, keeps renting the Mortal Kombat PS2 games, etc. Just this past weekend, when my family was up for Mothers Day, we got to talking about gaming, and he was asking me about PS2 games. He actually mentioned something about Shadow of the Colossus, and my ears perked up; I told him how emotionally moving and cinematic the game is, and he actually kind of laughed at me. Then we switched gears, and I told him about God of War II, and his ears perked up; he was "Holy shit that game looks totally awesome, I keep meaning to pick it up." I let him borrow my copy of GoW1, and I'm sure he's going to love the shit out of it, even though I bought him DMC3 for his birthday last year and Zone of the Enders 2 the year before that and he's barely touched either one, arguably "better" action games.

    TL;DR: He's not really interested in an emotional investment in gaming, as I am. And that's perfectly fine; it's a matter of priorities. He's a badass guitar player, and whereas music is a very soulful, detailed, personal expression for him, for tons of other people it's just Good-Time Music or Club Bangers. The success of the majority is never really going to crush the spirit of the minority; if anything, the existence of counterculture products thrive on the concept of the "main" culture to begin with. Madden's existence is what causes a game like the first Katamari Damacy to feel like a breath of fresh air; if we were inundated with Bill Laimbeer's Ball-Rolling Simulation every year with little more than roster updates and extra features, a completely original American football title would be just as un-mainstream.

    (Okay, I lied: that totally wasn't a TL;DR.)

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  • mausmalonemausmalone Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    OtakuD00D wrote: »
    Joe Maddenite refers to the dumb fuck whose only video game purchases are the latest Madden/NBA/ETC releases and claims you're not a gamer if you don't play Madden.

    People who enjoy Madden aren't all dumb fucks.

    People who buy Madden every year and sell their old copies back to Gamestop for $1 are dumb fucks.

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  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Zhu-Li, do the thing! Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Kevar wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Obviously you haven't been to college yet.
    You're good at this.
    These people exist, in great numbers. They've slagged my suggestions of, hell, any other game to my face.
    Wait, you're suggesting games to them? Well, since we love making assumptions, I'm going to assume you're an obnoxious individual who shrieks every time he sees Madden on a television, then immediately sprouts off (with no pitch control over his own voice) about how Okami is superior and well and just and all that is right with the gaming industry, and playing Madden makes you an uncouth philistine.

    This is fun.

    And I'm going to assume the same thing, based on your repeated belief that I'm saying everyone who plays Madden is bad despite the fact that I'm saying no such thing.

    Glad we came to this understanding.

    3DS: 0344-9335-6762
  • mugginnsmugginns Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    So the people that only buy madden or massive hits are actively destroying the industry

    The industry of video games

    Games which they play


    Hmm... art snobbery has jumped genres!

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  • Kewop DecamKewop Decam Registered User
    edited May 2007
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Kevar wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Obviously you haven't been to college yet.
    You're good at this.
    These people exist, in great numbers. They've slagged my suggestions of, hell, any other game to my face.
    Wait, you're suggesting games to them? Well, since we love making assumptions, I'm going to assume you're an obnoxious individual who shrieks every time he sees Madden on a television, then immediately sprouts off (with no pitch control over his own voice) about how Okami is superior and well and just and all that is right with the gaming industry, and playing Madden makes you an uncouth philistine.

    This is fun.

    And I'm going to assume the same thing, based on your repeated belief that I'm saying everyone who plays Madden is bad despite the fact that I'm saying no such thing.

    Glad we came to this understanding.

    You said "these people". What do you expect one to think?

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  • Kewop DecamKewop Decam Registered User
    edited May 2007
    mugginns wrote: »
    So the people that only buy madden or massive hits are actively destroying the industry

    The industry of video games

    Games which they play


    Hmm... art snobbery has jumped genres!

    You call that art!? THAT AIN'T ART!!!

    HAVE AT YOU!!!

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This discussion has been closed.