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Niche Gaming and Joe Maddenite

13

Posts

  • Wonder_HippieWonder_Hippie __BANNED USERS
    edited May 2007
    SC wrote: »
    Does it mean that they won't be as popular or successful as they should?

    Why should they be successful? Why are they more deserving then a 'less good' game that is widely popular?



    They shouldn't and your favorite non-popular game doesn't deserve shit either.

    How do you want the "mainstream" guy to buy Okami when he's never even heard of the shit? The thing ost of the games that are good, but sell like shit have in common is the lack of advertisement

    Entirely untrue. Note Viva Pinata. Lots of advertising, sold like complete ass.

    SC: Let me put it to you by way of example. While I was working at EB, I didn't go a single day without somebody coming in and asking, "Hey, I love Halo. What other games are like that?" Of the numerous people that asked me something like that, I converted, at most, three or four people to games like Rainbow Six (not Lockdown, that fucking sucked), HL2, Ghost Recon, or Doom 3. Those are even easy for the Halo crowds to get involved in. I couldn't get a single convert to great games like Psychonauts, Phantom Dust, KOTOR I+II, Fable, etc when we got into a deeper conversation about games they might enjoy. These aren't limited to fratboy fuckheads either; much of my time was spent with rednecks that smelled of chewing tobacco.

    The real problem is this: they do not represent gamers. They represent the short, limited foray that the mass market has taken into gaming, but that's all. Developers have latched on because they come with more pockets.

    Spoiler:
  • OtakuD00DOtakuD00D Too stupid to feel pain. San DiegoRegistered User regular
    edited May 2007
    It's a good reflection on our industry that there's people actively working to try and balance out the shitty generic sports games. Like I said earlier, things would have been completely different if everyone subscribed to EA's mentality from the takeover/exclusivity-happy days. Granted, they're still like that to an extent, but nowhere near as much as they were as of a couple years ago.
    There's no doubt that the industry's making a lot of money off this shit. I guess it's a good thing. HOWEVER, don't try to assume that the industry would not have made as much if it wasn't for them. It's fully possible that the more original, innovative games would have had a hell of a lot more exposure, and people would thus be more willing to try them out. It's possible, mind you.

    It's all about the message the numbers send to the publishers and developers. If enough people sheep over to Madden and (Insert Bling Bling Thug Shooter Title Here), it's going to eventually send a message saying that they really don't need to work as hard to make a great game to make good money. Yeah, it's a little paranoid of me to assume so after so many years of this, but it's always something to worry about. I'm going in circles by now but I'm going to make the point again: The reason WHY the industry hasn't ended up this way is due to the fact that (thankfully) not developer and publisher shares EA's mid-2000's mentality.

    makosig.jpg
  • Katchem_ashKatchem_ash __BANNED USERS
    edited May 2007
    I can understand how a Niche can become a turn off for most people. I mayself play largely (95% or so) JRPG/SRPG and I can see why people can say why they don't like a person like that. Sure I play a couple of Fighting games and others but seriously, I don't find it bad if you play only one genre and like it. Its what you like and what you enjoy thats the most important thing.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    edited May 2007
    People need to fucking get over themselves and stop caring about what other people are playing.
    People who buy Madden every year and sell their old copies back to Gamestop for $1 are dumb fucks.

    Why, because they enjoy a game you don't? Because they're not as into games as you? Because they think that improved graphics and gameplay refinement (plus the real selling point that THE TEAMS ARE UP TO DATE) are worth spending money?

    THEIR money?

    Grow up.

    If you'd like an anime thread, please PM me to discuss it. Include pics/video of your favorites.
  • Kewop DecamKewop Decam Registered User
    edited May 2007
    SC wrote: »
    Does it mean that they won't be as popular or successful as they should?

    Why should they be successful? Why are they more deserving then a 'less good' game that is widely popular?



    They shouldn't and your favorite non-popular game doesn't deserve shit either.

    How do you want the "mainstream" guy to buy Okami when he's never even heard of the shit? The thing ost of the games that are good, but sell like shit have in common is the lack of advertisement

    Entirely untrue. Note Viva Pinata. Lots of advertising, sold like complete ass.

    SC: Let me put it to you by way of example. While I was working at EB, I didn't go a single day without somebody coming in and asking, "Hey, I love Halo. What other games are like that?" Of the numerous people that asked me something like that, I converted, at most, three or four people to games like Rainbow Six (not Lockdown, that fucking sucked), HL2, Ghost Recon, or Doom 3. Those are even easy for the Halo crowds to get involved in. I couldn't get a single convert to great games like Psychonauts, Phantom Dust, KOTOR I+II, Fable, etc when we got into a deeper conversation about games they might enjoy. These aren't limited to fratboy fuckheads either; much of my time was spent with rednecks that smelled of chewing tobacco.

    The real problem is this: they do not represent gamers. They represent the short, limited foray that the mass market has taken into gaming, but that's all. Developers have latched on because they come with more pockets.


    Viva pinata is SURELY not everyone's cup of tea. Doesn't even matter how you advertise that one because very few like games like that to begin with.

    Also, why are you trying to convert peopl to games in totally different genre than what they asked?

    "Hey got any games like Halo?"

    "KOTOR is cool!"

    "okay..."

    I think the real problem is that the games 'hardcore' gamers call unique and fresh are not. There isn't much unique and fresh about Okami to me. It's got a calligraphy brush... okay. i just think games overall are on a decline because if you talk to these Maddenites or whatever you call them, you'll find out they liked plenty of diversed games back in th day.

    pasigfa7.jpg
  • OtakuD00DOtakuD00D Too stupid to feel pain. San DiegoRegistered User regular
    edited May 2007

    Lets get on thing straight... The whole NFL license thing was the NFL's doing, NOT EA's. EA was the only company would could afford what the NFL was asking for.

    The fact that EA ended up going for it instead of backing away with everyone else to hopefully force/convince the NFL to back away from that offer reflects horribly on them.
    People need to fucking get over themselves and stop caring about what other people are playing.
    People who buy Madden every year and sell their old copies back to Gamestop for $1 are dumb fucks.
    Why, because they enjoy a game you don't? Because they're not as into games as you? Because they think that improved graphics and gameplay refinement (plus the real selling point that THE TEAMS ARE UP TO DATE) are worth spending money?

    THEIR money?

    Grow up.

    Easy! Look two posts above you. That's why.

    makosig.jpg
  • mugginnsmugginns Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    OtakuD00D wrote: »
    It's a good reflection on our industry that there's people actively working to try and balance out the shitty generic sports games. Like I said earlier, things would have been completely different if everyone subscribed to EA's mentality from the takeover/exclusivity-happy days. Granted, they're still like that to an extent, but nowhere near as much as they were as of a couple years ago.
    There's no doubt that the industry's making a lot of money off this shit. I guess it's a good thing. HOWEVER, don't try to assume that the industry would not have made as much if it wasn't for them. It's fully possible that the more original, innovative games would have had a hell of a lot more exposure, and people would thus be more willing to try them out. It's possible, mind you.

    It's all about the message the numbers send to the publishers and developers. If enough people sheep over to Madden and (Insert Bling Bling Thug Shooter Title Here), it's going to eventually send a message saying that they really don't need to work as hard to make a great game to make good money. Yeah, it's a little paranoid of me to assume so after so many years of this, but it's always something to worry about. I'm going in circles by now but I'm going to make the point again: The reason WHY the industry hasn't ended up this way is due to the fact that (thankfully) not developer and publisher shares EA's mid-2000's mentality.

    I stopped reading after "shitty generic sports games". If you don't play sports games and don't see the differences between the years, seriously, just quiet your face. Not everyone is an elite japanophile who enjoys platformers.

    E26cO.jpg
  • KainyKainy Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    God, I posted a good rant about this at kotaku, and I am too lazy to reproduce it. It was incomplete there, even.

    Suffice it to say that Joe Maddenite is derisive, but no, he is not good for the industry.

    All of his gaming money goes toward the same stagnant games that even he, in his stupor, will eventually tire of, and then he will move on to rape another hobby. Since the massive number of such idiots make it so that only stale, shitty sequels to stale, shitty games that have been stale and shitty for years are profitable by causing them to make, in a relative sense, gajillions of dollars more than anything that would have a chance to bring a new idea into the industry, stale, shitty games will be all that's left, and those of us who care about the industry do not buy stale, shitty games in numbers great enough to support the industry.

    And then, collapse. Well, except for Ninty, since they can just build a wall of $100 bills to fortify themselves.

    IcyLiquid wrote: »
    There's anti-fuckery code in there now :) Sorry :)
  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    edited May 2007
    why the HELL would EA do that? It would be retarded. Companies exist to MAKE PROFIT.

    If you'd like an anime thread, please PM me to discuss it. Include pics/video of your favorites.
  • edited May 2007
    Entirely untrue. Note Viva Pinata. Lots of advertising, sold like complete ass.
    Just to clear up a misconception.. Viva Pinata sold decently considering the system. It didn't blow its load in the launch month like a lot of games but it sells alright on a month-to-month basis. The merchandising campaign bombed.

    edit: funny that ash is one of the most rational people in the thread

  • VariableVariable Weed and Masturbation Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    edited May 2007
    People need to fucking get over themselves and stop caring about what other people are playing.
    People who buy Madden every year and sell their old copies back to Gamestop for $1 are dumb fucks.

    Why, because they enjoy a game you don't? Because they're not as into games as you? Because they think that improved graphics and gameplay refinement (plus the real selling point that THE TEAMS ARE UP TO DATE) are worth spending money?

    THEIR money?

    Grow up.

    I ultimately disagree with the first line of your post, because it does affect us, but the rest of your post is entirely accurate.

    I wish people would buy more than just Madden. It's not that I want them to not get Madden, it's that I want them to also get other great games.

    The same reason I wish people would watch something like, Arrested Development, or Freaks and Geeks. I don't mind if they continue to watch According to Jim, but I do have a vested interest in their viewing choices, because ultimately, with everything being a business, it's going to affect me.

    (sorry if I got affect/effect wrong here)

    Steam Profile - Variable114 | WiiU - Variable | 3DS - 3866-8105-7478
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  • OtakuD00DOtakuD00D Too stupid to feel pain. San DiegoRegistered User regular
    edited May 2007
    why the HELL would EA do that? It would be retarded. Companies exist to MAKE PROFIT.

    This is why ethics exist. Without ethics, just about any sort of horrible thing can be done in the name of making money. Hell, it's already happening. I'm not even talking about the gaming industry here.
    I can understand how a Niche can become a turn off for most people. I mayself play largely (95% or so) JRPG/SRPG and I can see why people can say why they don't like a person like that. Sure I play a couple of Fighting games and others but seriously, I don't find it bad if you play only one genre and like it. Its what you like and what you enjoy thats the most important thing.

    Well, at least you don't go around insulting people who dare to play things that aren't SRPG/JRPG's, or proclaim that real gamers only play said genres, right? Nothing wrong with your tastes if that's the case.

    makosig.jpg
  • mausmalonemausmalone Registered User
    edited May 2007
    People need to fucking get over themselves and stop caring about what other people are playing.
    People who buy Madden every year and sell their old copies back to Gamestop for $1 are dumb fucks.

    Why, because they enjoy a game you don't? Because they're not as into games as you? Because they think that improved graphics and gameplay refinement (plus the real selling point that THE TEAMS ARE UP TO DATE) are worth spending money?

    THEIR money?

    Grow up.

    No because they could sell it to a friend for $5, then they'd be happy and their friend would be happy too.

    If they want to buy Madden every year, that's their prerogative ... but they shouldn't have to get ripped off every year selling their old copies.

    EDIT:
    Variable wrote: »
    (sorry if I got affect/effect wrong here)

    Actually, you got it completely right.

    266.jpg
  • Wonder_HippieWonder_Hippie __BANNED USERS
    edited May 2007
    SC wrote: »
    Does it mean that they won't be as popular or successful as they should?

    Why should they be successful? Why are they more deserving then a 'less good' game that is widely popular?



    They shouldn't and your favorite non-popular game doesn't deserve shit either.

    How do you want the "mainstream" guy to buy Okami when he's never even heard of the shit? The thing ost of the games that are good, but sell like shit have in common is the lack of advertisement

    Entirely untrue. Note Viva Pinata. Lots of advertising, sold like complete ass.

    SC: Let me put it to you by way of example. While I was working at EB, I didn't go a single day without somebody coming in and asking, "Hey, I love Halo. What other games are like that?" Of the numerous people that asked me something like that, I converted, at most, three or four people to games like Rainbow Six (not Lockdown, that fucking sucked), HL2, Ghost Recon, or Doom 3. Those are even easy for the Halo crowds to get involved in. I couldn't get a single convert to great games like Psychonauts, Phantom Dust, KOTOR I+II, Fable, etc when we got into a deeper conversation about games they might enjoy. These aren't limited to fratboy fuckheads either; much of my time was spent with rednecks that smelled of chewing tobacco.

    The real problem is this: they do not represent gamers. They represent the short, limited foray that the mass market has taken into gaming, but that's all. Developers have latched on because they come with more pockets.


    Viva pinata is SURELY not everyone's cup of tea. Doesn't even matter how you advertise that one because very few like games like that to begin with.

    Also, why are you trying to convert peopl to games in totally different genre than what they asked?

    "Hey got any games like Halo?"

    "KOTOR is cool!"

    "okay..."

    I think the real problem is that the games 'hardcore' gamers call unique and fresh are not. There isn't much unique and fresh about Okami to me. It's got a calligraphy brush... okay. i just think games overall are on a decline because if you talk to these Maddenites or whatever you call them, you'll find out they liked plenty of diversed games back in th day.

    Jesus Christ, people are really good at strawmanning in this thread.

    "It's a nerd v. jock thing!"

    "You're just mad that they don't like what you like!"

    "Not everybody that plays Madden is a twat!"

    And then you, Kewop. What I said was we would get into deeper discussions good games outside of the badass-with-a-gun genre. They'd own a PS2, but wouldn't play it for whatever reason, so I'd suggest some gems out of the Xbox collection, all of which slid off the customer's sloping forehead.

    Spoiler:
  • mugginnsmugginns Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Kainy wrote: »
    God, I posted a good rant about this at kotaku, and I am too lazy to reproduce it. It was incomplete there, even.

    Suffice it to say that Joe Maddenite is derisive, but no, he is not good for the industry.

    All of his gaming money goes toward the same stagnant games that even he, in his stupor, will eventually tire of, and then he will move on to rape another hobby. Since the massive number of such idiots make it so that only stale, shitty sequels to stale, shitty games that have been stale and shitty for years are profitable by causing them to make, in a relative sense, gajillions of dollars more than anything that would have a chance to bring a new idea into the industry, stale, shitty games will be all that's left, and those of us who care about the industry do not buy stale, shitty games in numbers great enough to support the industry.

    And then, collapse. Well, except for Ninty, since they can just build a wall of $100 bills to fortify themselves.

    Ninty doesn't need to worry. They have plenty of "stale, shitty sequels to stale, shitty games that have been stale and shitty for years" in Mario Party, SSB, Mario platformers, Mario Golf, Metroid, etc.

    Oh, and no one insults other gamers based on the games they play. It doesn't happen. IRL.

    E26cO.jpg
  • edited May 2007
    mugginns wrote: »
    Ninty doesn't need to worry. They have plenty of "stale, shitty sequels to stale, shitty games that have been stale and shitty for years" in Mario Party, SSB, Mario platformers, Mario Golf, Metroid, etc.
    No, you're doing exactly what they're doing.

  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    edited May 2007
    OtakuD00D wrote: »
    why the HELL would EA do that? It would be retarded. Companies exist to MAKE PROFIT.

    This is why ethics exist. Without ethics, just about any sort of horrible thing can be done in the name of making money. Hell, it's already happening. I'm not even talking about the gaming industry here.

    Ethics don't even come into play here. EA were offered a great deal they could make a lot of money out of, and they took it. What, were they supposed to go "oh man, but then our competition would make less money, and that would suck...". Presumably if Hideo Kojima offered Nintendo exclusive rights to all of his games, they'd say "sorry brah, that would ruin things for people who don't want to buy a wii"

    Aside from anything else, EA have an ethical obligation to act in the best interests of their stockholders.

    If you'd like an anime thread, please PM me to discuss it. Include pics/video of your favorites.
  • Kewop DecamKewop Decam Registered User
    edited May 2007
    SC wrote: »
    Does it mean that they won't be as popular or successful as they should?

    Why should they be successful? Why are they more deserving then a 'less good' game that is widely popular?



    They shouldn't and your favorite non-popular game doesn't deserve shit either.

    How do you want the "mainstream" guy to buy Okami when he's never even heard of the shit? The thing ost of the games that are good, but sell like shit have in common is the lack of advertisement

    Entirely untrue. Note Viva Pinata. Lots of advertising, sold like complete ass.

    SC: Let me put it to you by way of example. While I was working at EB, I didn't go a single day without somebody coming in and asking, "Hey, I love Halo. What other games are like that?" Of the numerous people that asked me something like that, I converted, at most, three or four people to games like Rainbow Six (not Lockdown, that fucking sucked), HL2, Ghost Recon, or Doom 3. Those are even easy for the Halo crowds to get involved in. I couldn't get a single convert to great games like Psychonauts, Phantom Dust, KOTOR I+II, Fable, etc when we got into a deeper conversation about games they might enjoy. These aren't limited to fratboy fuckheads either; much of my time was spent with rednecks that smelled of chewing tobacco.

    The real problem is this: they do not represent gamers. They represent the short, limited foray that the mass market has taken into gaming, but that's all. Developers have latched on because they come with more pockets.


    Viva pinata is SURELY not everyone's cup of tea. Doesn't even matter how you advertise that one because very few like games like that to begin with.

    Also, why are you trying to convert peopl to games in totally different genre than what they asked?

    "Hey got any games like Halo?"

    "KOTOR is cool!"

    "okay..."

    I think the real problem is that the games 'hardcore' gamers call unique and fresh are not. There isn't much unique and fresh about Okami to me. It's got a calligraphy brush... okay. i just think games overall are on a decline because if you talk to these Maddenites or whatever you call them, you'll find out they liked plenty of diversed games back in th day.

    Jesus Christ, people are really good at strawmanning in this thread.

    "It's a nerd v. jock thing!"

    "You're just mad that they don't like what you like!"

    "Not everybody that plays Madden is a twat!"

    And then you, Kewop. What I said was we would get into deeper discussions good games outside of the badass-with-a-gun genre. They'd own a PS2, but wouldn't play it for whatever reason, so I'd suggest some gems out of the Xbox collection, all of which slid off the customer's sloping forehead.


    I wouldn't buy a game because you told me to anyway. Mostly because I'd think you were trying to selling me shit to meet some kind of quota. I still stand by th point of offering games way outside a genre to buy is silly.

    pasigfa7.jpg
  • mugginnsmugginns Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Kevar wrote: »
    mugginns wrote: »
    Ninty doesn't need to worry. They have plenty of "stale, shitty sequels to stale, shitty games that have been stale and shitty for years" in Mario Party, SSB, Mario platformers, Mario Golf, Metroid, etc.
    No, you're doing exactly what they're doing.

    Sorry, meaning = all games are pretty stale, the number of 'innovative' games a year is about 2.

    E26cO.jpg
  • Kewop DecamKewop Decam Registered User
    edited May 2007
    OtakuD00D wrote: »
    why the HELL would EA do that? It would be retarded. Companies exist to MAKE PROFIT.

    This is why ethics exist. Without ethics, just about any sort of horrible thing can be done in the name of making money. Hell, it's already happening. I'm not even talking about the gaming industry here.

    Ethics don't even come into play here. EA were offered a great deal they could make a lot of money out of, and they took it. What, were they supposed to go "oh man, but then our competition would make less money, and that would suck...". Presumably if Hideo Kojima offered Nintendo exclusive rights to all of his games, they'd say "sorry brah, that would ruin things for people who don't want to buy a wii"

    Aside from anything else, EA have an ethical obligation to act in the best interests of their stockholders.

    Yea, ethnics has nothing to do with this. If it's anyone with the ethnics problem it's the NFL.

    Now, when EA went and bought every other football related license, then it got a little dickish. Too bad you can't buy the rights to football itself, because 2k is coming back kicking and screaming this summer and eA will be fucked.

    pasigfa7.jpg
  • Wonder_HippieWonder_Hippie __BANNED USERS
    edited May 2007
    mugginns wrote: »
    Kainy wrote: »
    God, I posted a good rant about this at kotaku, and I am too lazy to reproduce it. It was incomplete there, even.

    Suffice it to say that Joe Maddenite is derisive, but no, he is not good for the industry.

    All of his gaming money goes toward the same stagnant games that even he, in his stupor, will eventually tire of, and then he will move on to rape another hobby. Since the massive number of such idiots make it so that only stale, shitty sequels to stale, shitty games that have been stale and shitty for years are profitable by causing them to make, in a relative sense, gajillions of dollars more than anything that would have a chance to bring a new idea into the industry, stale, shitty games will be all that's left, and those of us who care about the industry do not buy stale, shitty games in numbers great enough to support the industry.

    And then, collapse. Well, except for Ninty, since they can just build a wall of $100 bills to fortify themselves.

    Ninty doesn't need to worry. They have plenty of "stale, shitty sequels to stale, shitty games that have been stale and shitty for years" in Mario Party, SSB, Mario platformers, Mario Golf, Metroid, etc.

    Oh, and no one insults other gamers based on the games they play. It doesn't happen.

    Jesus on a fucking stick, I hope that was a joke.

    Yes, Metroid hasn't changed at all. Especially when it went from side-scroller to FPS.

    SSB has had two games, the first of which was a fairly original little title. Sure, it's stale and shitty now.

    Mario Platformers haven't changed on iota. Nope, not with the progression 3D, new gameplay mechanics, and the future inclusion of motion controls.

    And of course Mario Golf is and has been stale for years, with its all of two major home console versions and two handheld versions.

    Spoiler:
  • OtakuD00DOtakuD00D Too stupid to feel pain. San DiegoRegistered User regular
    edited May 2007
    The ethical choice would have been to refuse. They've effectively killed off competition to make a better NFL game. Sure, people can make fantsy football games like Konami did with Winning Eleven against FIFA, but outside of Europe and Japan, who's honestly going to buy that sort of thing in numbers high enough to compete against Madden?

    This lets them get away with making only one or two changes every year and releasing what's essentially the same goddamn game at ridiculous prices, and laughing all the way to the bank when legions of idiots get ripped off for it.

    Granted, part of me thinks they deserve it for not being headstrong enough to look into other good sports game alternatives to get the most bang out of their buck. However, someone has to stand up for them and the rest of the industry in general.

    And goddamn it. That sounded like I'm standing up for Joe Maddenite. Well, fuck. They're going to stick to Madden regardless of what happens. I have hopes for everyone else.

    makosig.jpg
  • mausmalonemausmalone Registered User
    edited May 2007
    OtakuD00D wrote: »
    why the HELL would EA do that? It would be retarded. Companies exist to MAKE PROFIT.

    This is why ethics exist. Without ethics, just about any sort of horrible thing can be done in the name of making money. Hell, it's already happening. I'm not even talking about the gaming industry here.

    Ethics don't even come into play here. EA were offered a great deal they could make a lot of money out of, and they took it. What, were they supposed to go "oh man, but then our competition would make less money, and that would suck...". Presumably if Hideo Kojima offered Nintendo exclusive rights to all of his games, they'd say "sorry brah, that would ruin things for people who don't want to buy a wii"

    Aside from anything else, EA have an ethical obligation to act in the best interests of their stockholders and their employees.

    Fixed for actual ethics. A corporation has the same ethical obligation to their employees that they do to their stockholders: earning them a livelihood. The only difference is that while stockholders invest cash, employees invest time and effort.

    Also, I'm still somewhat shocked they were offered the exclusivity arrangement. You'd think the NFL could make more money through multiple licensing. While it doesn't bode well for the diversity of NFL games, I'm certainly not going to fault EA for taking the deal.

    266.jpg
  • mugginnsmugginns Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    mugginns wrote: »
    Kainy wrote: »
    God, I posted a good rant about this at kotaku, and I am too lazy to reproduce it. It was incomplete there, even.

    Suffice it to say that Joe Maddenite is derisive, but no, he is not good for the industry.

    All of his gaming money goes toward the same stagnant games that even he, in his stupor, will eventually tire of, and then he will move on to rape another hobby. Since the massive number of such idiots make it so that only stale, shitty sequels to stale, shitty games that have been stale and shitty for years are profitable by causing them to make, in a relative sense, gajillions of dollars more than anything that would have a chance to bring a new idea into the industry, stale, shitty games will be all that's left, and those of us who care about the industry do not buy stale, shitty games in numbers great enough to support the industry.

    And then, collapse. Well, except for Ninty, since they can just build a wall of $100 bills to fortify themselves.

    Ninty doesn't need to worry. They have plenty of "stale, shitty sequels to stale, shitty games that have been stale and shitty for years" in Mario Party, SSB, Mario platformers, Mario Golf, Metroid, etc.

    Oh, and no one insults other gamers based on the games they play. It doesn't happen.

    Jesus on a fucking stick, I hope that was a joke.

    Yes, Metroid hasn't changed at all. Especially when it went from side-scroller to FPS.

    SSB has had two games, the first of which was a fairly original little title. Sure, it's stale and shitty now.

    Mario Platformers haven't changed on iota. Nope, not with the progression 3D, new gameplay mechanics, and the future inclusion of motion controls.

    And of course Mario Golf is and has been stale for years, with its all of two major home console versions and two handheld versions.

    Yup. How dare I insults teh ninty!!

    E26cO.jpg
  • OtakuD00DOtakuD00D Too stupid to feel pain. San DiegoRegistered User regular
    edited May 2007
    mausmalone wrote: »
    OtakuD00D wrote: »
    why the HELL would EA do that? It would be retarded. Companies exist to MAKE PROFIT.

    This is why ethics exist. Without ethics, just about any sort of horrible thing can be done in the name of making money. Hell, it's already happening. I'm not even talking about the gaming industry here.

    Ethics don't even come into play here. EA were offered a great deal they could make a lot of money out of, and they took it. What, were they supposed to go "oh man, but then our competition would make less money, and that would suck...". Presumably if Hideo Kojima offered Nintendo exclusive rights to all of his games, they'd say "sorry brah, that would ruin things for people who don't want to buy a wii"

    Aside from anything else, EA have an ethical obligation to act in the best interests of their stockholders and their employees.

    Fixed for actual ethics. A corporation has the same ethical obligation to their employees that they do to their stockholders: earning them a livelihood. The only difference is that while stockholders invest cash, employees invest time and effort.

    Also, I'm still somewhat shocked they were offered the exclusivity arrangement. You'd think the NFL could make more money through multiple licensing. While it doesn't bode well for the diversity of NFL games, I'm certainly not going to fault EA for taking the deal.

    It's as simple as this:
    DIVERSITY GOOD, STAGNATION BAD.

    makosig.jpg
  • Wonder_HippieWonder_Hippie __BANNED USERS
    edited May 2007
    I wouldn't buy a game because you told me to anyway. Mostly because I'd think you were trying to selling me shit to meet some kind of quota. I still stand by th point of offering games way outside a genre to buy is silly.

    You just like being contrary, don't you? That, or you're entirely fucking dense. I seriously doubt anybody's stupid enough to think that an employee of a game store would work on commission, so that's out the window. And what part do you not get that we were having a general discussion about good games that they might enjoy? They ask, I answer. That fucking simple.

    Spoiler:
  • OtakuD00DOtakuD00D Too stupid to feel pain. San DiegoRegistered User regular
    edited May 2007
    I wouldn't buy a game because you told me to anyway. Mostly because I'd think you were trying to selling me shit to meet some kind of quota. I still stand by th point of offering games way outside a genre to buy is silly.

    You just like being contrary, don't you? That, or you're entirely fucking dense. I seriously doubt anybody's stupid enough to think that an employee of a game store would work on commission, so that's out the window. And what part do you not get that we were having a general discussion about good games that they might enjoy? They ask, I answer. That fucking simple.

    Fucking christ. I WISH I worked on commission. Well, commission in addition to my hourly wages.

    makosig.jpg
  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    edited May 2007
    OtakuD00D wrote: »
    The ethical choice would have been to refuse.

    ETHICS ARE SUBJECTIVE
    They've effectively killed off competition to make a better NFL game. Sure, people can make fantsy football games like Konami did with Winning Eleven against FIFA, but outside of Europe and Japan, who's honestly going to buy that sort of thing in numbers high enough to compete against Madden?

    NOT EA'S PROBLEM. COMPANY MAKE PROFIT. PAY EMPLOYEES AND SHAREHOLDERS. PURPOSE OF EVERY COMPANY EVER.
    This lets them get away with making only one or two changes every year and releasing what's essentially the same goddamn game at ridiculous prices, and laughing all the way to the bank when legions of idiots get ripped off for it.

    They aren't getting ripped off, they know exactly what they're buying. has it occured to you that they're buying it because they enjoy it, rather than because they're "idiots"? Up to date teams actually mean something to sports fans. You've made it abundantly clear that you have absolutely no idea about the world of business outside of sunshine and lollipops lane

    If you'd like an anime thread, please PM me to discuss it. Include pics/video of your favorites.
  • mugginnsmugginns Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    OtakuD00D wrote: »
    mausmalone wrote: »
    OtakuD00D wrote: »
    why the HELL would EA do that? It would be retarded. Companies exist to MAKE PROFIT.

    This is why ethics exist. Without ethics, just about any sort of horrible thing can be done in the name of making money. Hell, it's already happening. I'm not even talking about the gaming industry here.

    Ethics don't even come into play here. EA were offered a great deal they could make a lot of money out of, and they took it. What, were they supposed to go "oh man, but then our competition would make less money, and that would suck...". Presumably if Hideo Kojima offered Nintendo exclusive rights to all of his games, they'd say "sorry brah, that would ruin things for people who don't want to buy a wii"

    Aside from anything else, EA have an ethical obligation to act in the best interests of their stockholders and their employees.

    Fixed for actual ethics. A corporation has the same ethical obligation to their employees that they do to their stockholders: earning them a livelihood. The only difference is that while stockholders invest cash, employees invest time and effort.

    Also, I'm still somewhat shocked they were offered the exclusivity arrangement. You'd think the NFL could make more money through multiple licensing. While it doesn't bode well for the diversity of NFL games, I'm certainly not going to fault EA for taking the deal.

    It's as simple as this:
    DIVERSITY GOOD, STAGNATION BAD.

    Um

    Where are the figures that showed that Madden sold more copies than anything else last year? I'll have to find em. Cos it is true. EA is in the bidness of making $$$, not satisfying armchair industry critics.

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  • DesertBoxDesertBox Registered User
    edited May 2007
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Apparently people think that "Joe Maddenite" refers to non-Maddenites who enjoy Madden, despite repeated assertions to the contrary.

    Duly noted.

    Just between you and me, I know you used the 'Joe Maddenite' term and I responded in the other term, I'm just re-iterating that I did not take offense. I just wanted clarification on that attitude and I certainly didn't expect it to spawn its own thread.

    Spoiler:
  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    edited May 2007
    mausmalone wrote: »
    Fixed for actual ethics. A corporation has the same ethical obligation to their employees that they do to their stockholders: earning them a livelihood. The only difference is that while stockholders invest cash, employees invest time and effort.

    ...I'm not sure how that contradicts anything I said. EA makes money, pays employees. EA makes decisions that result in profit for said purposes.

    If you'd like an anime thread, please PM me to discuss it. Include pics/video of your favorites.
  • Wonder_HippieWonder_Hippie __BANNED USERS
    edited May 2007
    mugginns wrote: »
    mugginns wrote: »
    Kainy wrote: »
    God, I posted a good rant about this at kotaku, and I am too lazy to reproduce it. It was incomplete there, even.

    Suffice it to say that Joe Maddenite is derisive, but no, he is not good for the industry.

    All of his gaming money goes toward the same stagnant games that even he, in his stupor, will eventually tire of, and then he will move on to rape another hobby. Since the massive number of such idiots make it so that only stale, shitty sequels to stale, shitty games that have been stale and shitty for years are profitable by causing them to make, in a relative sense, gajillions of dollars more than anything that would have a chance to bring a new idea into the industry, stale, shitty games will be all that's left, and those of us who care about the industry do not buy stale, shitty games in numbers great enough to support the industry.

    And then, collapse. Well, except for Ninty, since they can just build a wall of $100 bills to fortify themselves.

    Ninty doesn't need to worry. They have plenty of "stale, shitty sequels to stale, shitty games that have been stale and shitty for years" in Mario Party, SSB, Mario platformers, Mario Golf, Metroid, etc.

    Oh, and no one insults other gamers based on the games they play. It doesn't happen.

    Jesus on a fucking stick, I hope that was a joke.

    Yes, Metroid hasn't changed at all. Especially when it went from side-scroller to FPS.

    SSB has had two games, the first of which was a fairly original little title. Sure, it's stale and shitty now.

    Mario Platformers haven't changed on iota. Nope, not with the progression 3D, new gameplay mechanics, and the future inclusion of motion controls.

    And of course Mario Golf is and has been stale for years, with its all of two major home console versions and two handheld versions.

    Yup. How dare I insults teh ninty!!

    Are you really that stupid? Do you think I reacted like that because you insulted Nintendo, or because you said something almost entirely fucking asinine? Notice I didn't come in to defend Mario Party. There's been, what, 9, and it hasn't changed that terribly much? More minigames, different boards. Yeah, you're more or les correct about that one, but you're being a fucking twit if you think you're right about the others.

    Spoiler:
  • edited May 2007
    mugginns wrote: »
    mugginns wrote: »
    Kainy wrote: »
    God, I posted a good rant about this at kotaku, and I am too lazy to reproduce it. It was incomplete there, even.

    Suffice it to say that Joe Maddenite is derisive, but no, he is not good for the industry.

    All of his gaming money goes toward the same stagnant games that even he, in his stupor, will eventually tire of, and then he will move on to rape another hobby. Since the massive number of such idiots make it so that only stale, shitty sequels to stale, shitty games that have been stale and shitty for years are profitable by causing them to make, in a relative sense, gajillions of dollars more than anything that would have a chance to bring a new idea into the industry, stale, shitty games will be all that's left, and those of us who care about the industry do not buy stale, shitty games in numbers great enough to support the industry.

    And then, collapse. Well, except for Ninty, since they can just build a wall of $100 bills to fortify themselves.

    Ninty doesn't need to worry. They have plenty of "stale, shitty sequels to stale, shitty games that have been stale and shitty for years" in Mario Party, SSB, Mario platformers, Mario Golf, Metroid, etc.

    Oh, and no one insults other gamers based on the games they play. It doesn't happen.

    Jesus on a fucking stick, I hope that was a joke.

    Yes, Metroid hasn't changed at all. Especially when it went from side-scroller to FPS.

    SSB has had two games, the first of which was a fairly original little title. Sure, it's stale and shitty now.

    Mario Platformers haven't changed on iota. Nope, not with the progression 3D, new gameplay mechanics, and the future inclusion of motion controls.

    And of course Mario Golf is and has been stale for years, with its all of two major home console versions and two handheld versions.

    Yup. How dare I insults teh ninty!!

    I don't know if you're serious or not, but I know I have been getting bored with Nintendo's recent outings. I couldn't finish Twilight Princess because it was the same game I already played three times before. Super Paper Mario... too easy and boring as hell. Metroid Prime 2 and Hunters, both boring and not worth it. Oh, and now that Nintendo has seen a taste of major success for the first time their PR is starting to sound like Sony PR, with trash talking and BS.

    I love Nintendo and everything, but they are not the end all be all of gaming... they can be, and have been, just as bad as EA and others.

    Spoiler:
    Amazon Wishlist
  • Kewop DecamKewop Decam Registered User
    edited May 2007
    I wouldn't buy a game because you told me to anyway. Mostly because I'd think you were trying to selling me shit to meet some kind of quota. I still stand by th point of offering games way outside a genre to buy is silly.

    You just like being contrary, don't you? That, or you're entirely fucking dense. I seriously doubt anybody's stupid enough to think that an employee of a game store would work on commission, so that's out the window. And what part do you not get that we were having a general discussion about good games that they might enjoy? They ask, I answer. That fucking simple.


    who said anything about commission? There are jobs where you have to sell a certain amount of shit and nly get to keep your job for doing so. Hell, ya'll do that with preorders and used games don't ya?

    Also, do you not understand that having a "general' conversation might not be general to both parties? You could be having a general conversation with a woman, but she could think you're flirting when all you want to talk about is the damn weather.

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  • mugginnsmugginns Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    mugginns wrote: »
    mugginns wrote: »
    Kainy wrote: »
    God, I posted a good rant about this at kotaku, and I am too lazy to reproduce it. It was incomplete there, even.

    Suffice it to say that Joe Maddenite is derisive, but no, he is not good for the industry.

    All of his gaming money goes toward the same stagnant games that even he, in his stupor, will eventually tire of, and then he will move on to rape another hobby. Since the massive number of such idiots make it so that only stale, shitty sequels to stale, shitty games that have been stale and shitty for years are profitable by causing them to make, in a relative sense, gajillions of dollars more than anything that would have a chance to bring a new idea into the industry, stale, shitty games will be all that's left, and those of us who care about the industry do not buy stale, shitty games in numbers great enough to support the industry.

    And then, collapse. Well, except for Ninty, since they can just build a wall of $100 bills to fortify themselves.

    Ninty doesn't need to worry. They have plenty of "stale, shitty sequels to stale, shitty games that have been stale and shitty for years" in Mario Party, SSB, Mario platformers, Mario Golf, Metroid, etc.

    Oh, and no one insults other gamers based on the games they play. It doesn't happen.

    Jesus on a fucking stick, I hope that was a joke.

    Yes, Metroid hasn't changed at all. Especially when it went from side-scroller to FPS.

    SSB has had two games, the first of which was a fairly original little title. Sure, it's stale and shitty now.

    Mario Platformers haven't changed on iota. Nope, not with the progression 3D, new gameplay mechanics, and the future inclusion of motion controls.

    And of course Mario Golf is and has been stale for years, with its all of two major home console versions and two handheld versions.

    Yup. How dare I insults teh ninty!!

    Are you really that stupid? Do you think I reacted like that because you insulted Nintendo, or because you said something almost entirely fucking asinine? Notice I didn't come in to defend Mario Party. There's been, what, 9, and it hasn't changed that terribly much? More minigames, different boards. Yeah, you're more or les correct about that one, but you're being a fucking twit if you think you're right about the others.

    You seem really worked up about this subject. Has it occurred to you that people that aren't fans of the series you defend don't notice new stuff as much, and fans of NFL games do notice new things? Hell, Mario Kart is the same game that it was on SNES. (I still enjoy it).

    E26cO.jpg
  • Kewop DecamKewop Decam Registered User
    edited May 2007
    JPS3 wrote: »
    mugginns wrote: »
    mugginns wrote: »
    Kainy wrote: »
    God, I posted a good rant about this at kotaku, and I am too lazy to reproduce it. It was incomplete there, even.

    Suffice it to say that Joe Maddenite is derisive, but no, he is not good for the industry.

    All of his gaming money goes toward the same stagnant games that even he, in his stupor, will eventually tire of, and then he will move on to rape another hobby. Since the massive number of such idiots make it so that only stale, shitty sequels to stale, shitty games that have been stale and shitty for years are profitable by causing them to make, in a relative sense, gajillions of dollars more than anything that would have a chance to bring a new idea into the industry, stale, shitty games will be all that's left, and those of us who care about the industry do not buy stale, shitty games in numbers great enough to support the industry.

    And then, collapse. Well, except for Ninty, since they can just build a wall of $100 bills to fortify themselves.

    Ninty doesn't need to worry. They have plenty of "stale, shitty sequels to stale, shitty games that have been stale and shitty for years" in Mario Party, SSB, Mario platformers, Mario Golf, Metroid, etc.

    Oh, and no one insults other gamers based on the games they play. It doesn't happen.

    Jesus on a fucking stick, I hope that was a joke.

    Yes, Metroid hasn't changed at all. Especially when it went from side-scroller to FPS.

    SSB has had two games, the first of which was a fairly original little title. Sure, it's stale and shitty now.

    Mario Platformers haven't changed on iota. Nope, not with the progression 3D, new gameplay mechanics, and the future inclusion of motion controls.

    And of course Mario Golf is and has been stale for years, with its all of two major home console versions and two handheld versions.

    Yup. How dare I insults teh ninty!!

    I don't know if you're serious or not, but I know I have been getting bored with Nintendo's recent outings. I couldn't finish Twilight Princess because it was the same game I already played three times before. Super Paper Mario... too easy and boring as hell. Metroid Prime 2 and Hunters, both boring and not worth it. Oh, and now that Nintendo has seen a taste of major success for the first time their PR is starting to sound like Sony PR, with trash talking and BS.

    I love Nintendo and everything, but they are not the end all be all of gaming... they can be, and have been, just as bad as EA and others.



    I'm glad someone said it because it's true. Remember when people went nuts when Gamespot gave it a 8+? i wouldn't even give the game an 8.

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  • AntishowAntishow Registered User
    edited May 2007

    NOT EA'S PROBLEM. COMPANY MAKE PROFIT. PAY EMPLOYEES AND SHAREHOLDERS. PURPOSE OF EVERY COMPANY EVER.

    The only company I've ever heard of that existed solely to generate profit was Underpants Gnomes Inc., and I don't think they actually accomplished that goal.

    Profit is nice, but it's just there to keep the wheels turning.

  • Wonder_HippieWonder_Hippie __BANNED USERS
    edited May 2007
    I wouldn't buy a game because you told me to anyway. Mostly because I'd think you were trying to selling me shit to meet some kind of quota. I still stand by th point of offering games way outside a genre to buy is silly.

    You just like being contrary, don't you? That, or you're entirely fucking dense. I seriously doubt anybody's stupid enough to think that an employee of a game store would work on commission, so that's out the window. And what part do you not get that we were having a general discussion about good games that they might enjoy? They ask, I answer. That fucking simple.


    who said anything about commission? There are jobs where you have to sell a certain amount of shit and nly get to keep your job for doing so. Hell, ya'll do that with preorders and used games don't ya?

    Also, do you not understand that having a "general' conversation might not be general to both parties? You could be having a general conversation with a woman, but she could think you're flirting when all you want to talk about is the damn weather.

    Let me assure you of two things:

    1) Nobody operates on a quota for used games. There's a certain proportion they like, used games over new, but that's extremely easy to accomplish.

    2) I am not mentally deficient. As such, I know enough about human interaction based purely on experience to subconciously understand the nuances of an interpersonal interaction.

    What you're trying to do, instead of address the actual issue, is come up with excuses. You're excusing them because you want to attack me, or because you want to defend them. Neither of these things benefit the discussion at hand, and your assertions grounded from this position are entirely false.

    Spoiler:
  • Wonder_HippieWonder_Hippie __BANNED USERS
    edited May 2007
    muggins wrote:
    You seem really worked up about this subject. Has it occurred to you that people that aren't fans of the series you defend don't notice new stuff as much, and fans of NFL games do notice new things? Hell, Mario Kart is the same game that it was on SNES. (I still enjoy it).

    You didn't pick out Mario Kart. You didn't pick out Zelda. Hell, I don't even like newer Metroid games, but I'm pointing out that what you said is stupid. You picked out some of the worst possible choices to pick from their catalogue. Had you actually said Mario Kart or Zelda, I wouldn't have said a fucking thing. Those have stagnated, and I feel like Zelda's paradigm has become aged. But again, you didn't pick those, did you?

    Spoiler:
  • ValicValic Registered User
    edited May 2007
    Time to quit Lurking.

    I guess im a Maddenite. I buy Madden the day it comes out every year since 01.

    I like football, alot, more than I should really, my girlfriend thinks its kinda sick how I can tell you the heights / weights / colleges / Hair styles, and sleeping habits of most of the Raiders, yet I can never keep track of weather our anniversery is on the 25th or 27th of April.


    I guess I must be stupid. These are the games I currently own on my 360.

    Madden 07 / NHL 07 / NBA 2k7 / World series of Poker / Hitman / Guitar hero 2 / CoD 3 / PGR / DOA4 / Gears of War / Lego Star Wars / Blitz the leage / Tiger woods 06 / 99 Nights /

    I also play DoD, WoW, and Medieval 2 alot.

    I think you need to realize that not all of us "Maddenites" are stupid one dimensional gamers.

This discussion has been closed.