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Fuck airlines

Fizban140Fizban140 Registered User, __BANNED USERS
edited October 2010 in Help / Advice Forum
Well I am out $1100. I reserved my trek and then bought my tickets, trek got cancelled said I never actually reserved it and now I can't use the tickets and the airline is telling me they are non refundable. Can my bank cancel these charges? I think what happened is that they accidently overbooked the trip and then cancelled me after they found out. Is there anyway I can get my money back? The airline refused to, said I have one year to use the tickets but I will be starting school and won't be able to.

I am beyond pissed, I think I am going to go outside and break some shit for a while.

Fizban140 on
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Posts

  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Yay airlines.

    Odds are when you booked the airline ticket there were multiple pages (possibly linking to other multiples of pages) of terms and conditions, most of which say "no you can never get your money back but we can also cancel your flight or give your seat away at any time so fuck you."

    Basically, no.

  • KarlKarl Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Err....was the trek with a separate company to the airline?

    Because if it is...well they're under no obligation to refund your plane ticket.

    Spoiler:
  • EshEsh Tending bar. Eating out. Motorcycles. Portland, ORRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    I'm guessing you opted for the cheapest, non-refundable tickets?

    Even if you're starting school, you get breaks (winter, spring, summer) in which I'm sure you can fly somewhere.

    "At first he thought it might be a natural occurrence - maybe a rabbit. But upon closer inspection, it was clear a knife had been used. And rabbits don't carry knives."

    Final Fantasy XIV:Lilja Sunblade
  • SammyFSammyF Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Honestly, as much as I hate how airlines do business it sounds like you're complaining about the wrong enterprise on this one. I'd demand some remuneration from the company that canceled your trek on you.

  • EshEsh Tending bar. Eating out. Motorcycles. Portland, ORRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    SammyF wrote: »
    Honestly, as much as I hate how airlines do business it sounds like you're complaining about the wrong enterprise on this one. I'd demand some remuneration from the company that canceled your trek on you.

    I don't see how they're responsible in any way for this.

    "At first he thought it might be a natural occurrence - maybe a rabbit. But upon closer inspection, it was clear a knife had been used. And rabbits don't carry knives."

    Final Fantasy XIV:Lilja Sunblade
  • bowenbowen Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Sounds like a system fuck up rather than "lawl let me get the cheapest ticket."

    If you bark hard and long enough you'll probably get your refund. I doubt very much the "Tickets are non-refundable and we can cancel it whenever we want" will hold up anywhere but the fucking moon.

    Call your bank and explain that the company that you ordered the trek through canceled and won't refund your money. You can't really hold the airline to that, but the trek company almost certainly is at fault if it's saying you never reserved.

  • SixSix Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    bowen wrote: »
    Sounds like a system fuck up rather than "lawl let me get the cheapest ticket."

    If you bark hard and long enough you'll probably get your refund. I doubt very much the "Tickets are non-refundable and we can cancel it whenever we want" will hold up anywhere but the fucking moon.

    Call your bank and explain that the company that you ordered the trek through canceled and won't refund your money. You can't really hold the airline to that, but the trek company almost certainly is at fault if it's saying you never reserved.

    The airline and the trek company are separate, if I'm reading this right.

    It's not the airline that cancelled the trek. It's not the airline that's responsible.

    You can try to get the trek company to cover your airfare, but I doubt that will be successful.

    XBL, PSN, & Steam: SixkillerNYC Twitter Flickr
  • Susan DelgadoSusan Delgado Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    As far as the company you booked a trek with, do you have any of your confirmation information? I'd assume that there would be at least something stating that on this day you reserved this spot for this trip.

    As for the airline, it's honestly not their fault that your plans changed. You may certainly keep pursuing a refund, and you may get one, but I'd say to be as nice to these people as you can if you're trying to get them to make an exception for you after you (most likely) clicked on a button saying that you read and agreed to their terms and conditions. Airline folk are much more inclined to help out someone who is nice, and understandably frustrated vs. some irate person yelling at them for something out of their control.

    Go then, there are other worlds than these.
  • SerpentSerpent Sometimes Vancouver, BC, sometimes Brisbane, QLDRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    I think you should pursue both avenues.

    I bet your luck with the airline is minimal -- airlines don't make much money and I bet you bought their cheapest, non-refundable ticket. They have slightly (sometime not so slight) more expensive tickets which allow refunds, changes, etc for a reason...

    I have no idea how much luck you'll have with the trek company.

  • saltinesssaltiness Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Esh wrote: »
    SammyF wrote: »
    Honestly, as much as I hate how airlines do business it sounds like you're complaining about the wrong enterprise on this one. I'd demand some remuneration from the company that canceled your trek on you.

    I don't see how they're responsible in any way for this.

    They canceled the trek reservation which makes the flight pointless, I'd say they are responsible.

    XBL: heavenkils
  • VisionOfClarityVisionOfClarity Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    That is why unless you can afford to lose the fare you should buy refundable tickets. Nonrefundable means just that. Don't like it, don't buy nonrefundable.

  • DjeetDjeet Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    In case the trek organization does not help you obtain a refund, your best bet on getting something of value out of refundable tickets would be: reschedule the flight (another date/destination), see if they can convert the ticket into a travel voucher. Either of these options are likely to incur additional out-of-pocket expense.

  • EshEsh Tending bar. Eating out. Motorcycles. Portland, ORRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    saltiness wrote: »
    Esh wrote: »
    SammyF wrote: »
    Honestly, as much as I hate how airlines do business it sounds like you're complaining about the wrong enterprise on this one. I'd demand some remuneration from the company that canceled your trek on you.

    I don't see how they're responsible in any way for this.

    They canceled the trek reservation which makes the flight pointless, I'd say they are responsible.
    That is why unless you can afford to lose the fare you should buy refundable tickets. Nonrefundable means just that. Don't like it, don't buy nonrefundable.

    I'm willing to bet that somewhere in whatever he signed with the Trek company is a stipulation that the trip can be cancelled at any time.

    And also, these are two seperate companies. The travel agency isn't responsible for his airfare at all.

    People need to take personal responsibility and read the fine print.

    "At first he thought it might be a natural occurrence - maybe a rabbit. But upon closer inspection, it was clear a knife had been used. And rabbits don't carry knives."

    Final Fantasy XIV:Lilja Sunblade
  • RUNN1NGMANRUNN1NGMAN Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Esh wrote: »
    saltiness wrote: »
    Esh wrote: »
    SammyF wrote: »
    Honestly, as much as I hate how airlines do business it sounds like you're complaining about the wrong enterprise on this one. I'd demand some remuneration from the company that canceled your trek on you.

    I don't see how they're responsible in any way for this.

    They canceled the trek reservation which makes the flight pointless, I'd say they are responsible.
    That is why unless you can afford to lose the fare you should buy refundable tickets. Nonrefundable means just that. Don't like it, don't buy nonrefundable.

    I'm willing to bet that somewhere in whatever he signed with the Trek company is a stipulation that the trip can be cancelled at any time.

    And also, these are two seperate companies. The travel agency isn't responsible for his airfare at all.

    People need to take personal responsibility and read the fine print.

    If he had a contract with the trek company, and then took other actions in reliance with that contract like buying plane tickets, and THEN the trek company breached that contract, he could very well be entitled to the cost of the plane tickets.

  • EshEsh Tending bar. Eating out. Motorcycles. Portland, ORRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    RUNN1NGMAN wrote: »
    Esh wrote: »
    saltiness wrote: »
    Esh wrote: »
    SammyF wrote: »
    Honestly, as much as I hate how airlines do business it sounds like you're complaining about the wrong enterprise on this one. I'd demand some remuneration from the company that canceled your trek on you.

    I don't see how they're responsible in any way for this.

    They canceled the trek reservation which makes the flight pointless, I'd say they are responsible.
    That is why unless you can afford to lose the fare you should buy refundable tickets. Nonrefundable means just that. Don't like it, don't buy nonrefundable.

    I'm willing to bet that somewhere in whatever he signed with the Trek company is a stipulation that the trip can be cancelled at any time.

    And also, these are two seperate companies. The travel agency isn't responsible for his airfare at all.

    People need to take personal responsibility and read the fine print.

    If he had a contract with the trek company, and then took other actions in reliance with that contract like buying plane tickets, and THEN the trek company breached that contract, he could very well be entitled to the cost of the plane tickets.

    He said the trek company can't even find his reservation with them and the fine print in the trek company agreement is assuredly there. There's no way they're not covering their asses on something like this. So had he read the fine print, he'd have realized this, and not bought non-refundable tickets.

    This is all conjecture, but it's most likely.

    OP, what is the company you made the trek reservation with? Do you have any emails or documents proving you made this reservation with them?

    "At first he thought it might be a natural occurrence - maybe a rabbit. But upon closer inspection, it was clear a knife had been used. And rabbits don't carry knives."

    Final Fantasy XIV:Lilja Sunblade
  • SammyFSammyF Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    At the very least they're the ones who screwed him over; the airline has expressed that they're still more than happy to honor their end of the bargain at any point over the next year, which is honestly pretty damned accommodating of them.

    Do I expect he'll ever get any compensation from anyone? Probably not, but at the very least if you're going to make up your mind to be angry, you ought to at least try to be angry at the appropriate target.

  • bowenbowen Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Esh wrote: »
    saltiness wrote: »
    Esh wrote: »
    SammyF wrote: »
    Honestly, as much as I hate how airlines do business it sounds like you're complaining about the wrong enterprise on this one. I'd demand some remuneration from the company that canceled your trek on you.

    I don't see how they're responsible in any way for this.

    They canceled the trek reservation which makes the flight pointless, I'd say they are responsible.
    That is why unless you can afford to lose the fare you should buy refundable tickets. Nonrefundable means just that. Don't like it, don't buy nonrefundable.

    I'm willing to bet that somewhere in whatever he signed with the Trek company is a stipulation that the trip can be cancelled at any time.

    And also, these are two seperate companies. The travel agency isn't responsible for his airfare at all.

    People need to take personal responsibility and read the fine print.

    See you'd be right if he had canceled the trip. The trek was overbooked by the company. I'm assuming he bought everything through them. It's very rare that you buy your own plane tickets while going through a travel agency for something. So if I ordered a whole trip through my travel agency and then the travel agency canceled it on me then yes, the travel agency should be providing me a refund because they fucked up.

    Fine print is not always legally binding or mean anything.

    Now, if I went to Delta and ordered a 1 way ticket to Timbuktu and then canceled my flight, yeah that's different and he should probably just forget about it.

  • RUNN1NGMANRUNN1NGMAN Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    I forgot you were a legal expert, Esh. By all means, OP, take a $1100 wash without considering any alternative remedies.

  • SammyFSammyF Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    bowen wrote: »

    See you'd be right if he had canceled the trip. The trek was overbooked by the company. I'm assuming he bought everything through them. It's very rare that you buy your own plane tickets while going through a travel agency for something. So if I ordered a whole trip through my travel agency and then the travel agency canceled it on me then yes, the travel agency should be providing me a refund because they fucked up.

    I gather that they're claiming that he never confirmed a reservation which they then could cancel in the first place.

    Which begs the question whether they'd ever taken any of his money or sent him any documentation suggesting otherwise.

  • SixSix Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    SammyF wrote: »
    bowen wrote: »

    See you'd be right if he had canceled the trip. The trek was overbooked by the company. I'm assuming he bought everything through them. It's very rare that you buy your own plane tickets while going through a travel agency for something. So if I ordered a whole trip through my travel agency and then the travel agency canceled it on me then yes, the travel agency should be providing me a refund because they fucked up.

    I gather that they're claiming that he never confirmed a reservation which they then could cancel in the first place.

    Which begs the question whether they'd ever taken any of his money or sent him any documentation suggesting otherwise.

    I also doubt he booked his flight through them if they're claiming he never had a reservation.

    XBL, PSN, & Steam: SixkillerNYC Twitter Flickr
  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    So, the airline has offered to let you use your tickets as vouchers for any other flight during the year? That is quite probably the best offer you will receive from them. Airlines are evil when it comes to restrictions on ticket purchases and most often won't offer you anything if you have to cancel a flight. They sell these "refundable" tickets for an extra $200 nowadays, deliberately knowing many people will pay more just in case their travel schedule gets screwed.

    Your beef should definitely be with the trek company, provided you have any sort of proof that you did, in fact, reserve with them and didn't somehow screw it up on your end. It seems that the easiest solution is to throw a fit with the trek company until they agree to provide you a guaranteed slot on a different trip, then use your ticket vouchers to go to that one.

    "Well, look at this. Appears we got here just in the nick of time. What's that make us?"
    "Big Damn Heroes, Sir."
    "Ain't we just."
  • SammyFSammyF Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Six wrote: »
    SammyF wrote: »
    bowen wrote: »

    See you'd be right if he had canceled the trip. The trek was overbooked by the company. I'm assuming he bought everything through them. It's very rare that you buy your own plane tickets while going through a travel agency for something. So if I ordered a whole trip through my travel agency and then the travel agency canceled it on me then yes, the travel agency should be providing me a refund because they fucked up.

    I gather that they're claiming that he never confirmed a reservation which they then could cancel in the first place.

    Which begs the question whether they'd ever taken any of his money or sent him any documentation suggesting otherwise.

    I also doubt he booked his flight through them if they're claiming he never had a reservation.

    From what I gather, he didn't; rather, he scheduled a vacation package and then booked his tickets separately.

  • bowenbowen Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Darkwolfe's suggestion is the best one.

  • ZoolanderZoolander Registered User
    edited October 2010
    You should talk to both, but personally I think you'd have much better chance pushing the ski company to give you some kind of compensation for the inconvenience. Best case, maybe if you push hard enough, they might magically find a spot for you on the same dates. Squeaky wheel gets the grease and all that. Worst case, you wasted maybe 30 minutes talking politely but firmly to them. It's worth a try.

    Airline ticket people are used to this stuff, you expressly purchased non-refundable tickets and now you can't go, through no fault of theirs, there are limits to airline customer service.

  • EshEsh Tending bar. Eating out. Motorcycles. Portland, ORRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Zoolander wrote: »
    You should talk to both, but personally I think you'd have much better chance pushing the ski company to give you some kind of compensation for the inconvenience. Best case, maybe if you push hard enough, they might magically find a spot for you on the same dates. Squeaky wheel gets the grease and all that. Worst case, you wasted maybe 30 minutes talking politely but firmly to them. It's worth a try.

    Airline ticket people are used to this stuff, you expressly purchased non-refundable tickets and now you can't go, through no fault of theirs, there are limits to airline customer service.

    This is if he can actually provide any documentation as to if he actually made the reservation with them. When he spoke to them on the phone he should have provided any emails or documentation numbers they gave to him if he even got any.

    How did he know they trip was cancelled if they never had a reservation with him? You would think they would have sent him an email stating such and that would be the proof he needs. If they never sent him anything in the first place, that should have been a warning sign that something went wonky somewhere and he should have contacted him. If I don't get a confirmation email within an hour of ordering something online, I definitely double check what's up.

    Step 1: Get your documentation of your reserveation.

    Step 2: Call them back and take Darkwolfe's suggestion.

    Step 3: Don't over react so much. I take 16-17 credits a term and I have plenty of time for vacations between terms. You'll have the time to reuse those tickets for something else.

    "At first he thought it might be a natural occurrence - maybe a rabbit. But upon closer inspection, it was clear a knife had been used. And rabbits don't carry knives."

    Final Fantasy XIV:Lilja Sunblade
  • Susan DelgadoSusan Delgado Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Just thought of something you could at least ask the airline... see if they're willing to make the tickets/vouchers transferable. Then you could at least sell the tickets to a friend or family member that could get use out of the tickets. Don't know that they'd actually do it, but it's at least a question to ask them.

    Go then, there are other worlds than these.
  • KetarKetar Duke of Weaseltown Like an agile peacock!Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    bowen wrote: »
    See you'd be right if he had canceled the trip. The trek was overbooked by the company. I'm assuming he bought everything through them. It's very rare that you buy your own plane tickets while going through a travel agency for something. So if I ordered a whole trip through my travel agency and then the travel agency canceled it on me then yes, the travel agency should be providing me a refund because they fucked up.

    Fine print is not always legally binding or mean anything.

    Now, if I went to Delta and ordered a 1 way ticket to Timbuktu and then canceled my flight, yeah that's different and he should probably just forget about it.

    First off, he theorizes that the trip may have been overbooked by the company. He has zero confirmation of that whatsoever, rendering it a useless piece of information whether it's true or not.

    Second, you're completely wrong about the rarity of buying your own plane tickets. For starters, Fizban didn't say a word about going through a travel agent. Everything he wrote makes it sound like he was dealing directly with the company operating the trek he wanted to go on - which makes sense, since travelers tend to book directly far more often than they do through a travel agent in the internet age. Wholesalers will quite often avoid getting involved in airfare because of all of the rules and conditions that are entirely beyond their control. Additionally, it can be extraordinarily difficult and time-consuming to arrange the kind of flights clients usually want using something like frequent flier miles. So much so that it almost always makes more sense to leave the booking of airfare to the clients themselves. Exceptions tend to occur when a tour operator can arrange contracted group airfare with an airline, and offer it to their clients at a set rate with no mileage involvement whatsoever.

    Third, again since he mentions no travel agency, there is unlikely to be a single entity responsible for both the trek and the airfare, and thus no single entity responsible for refunding both.

    Fourth, unless they are incompetent, the fine print in the Terms and Conditions of the tour operator will actually hold up in court.

    I worked for a luxury tour operator for years during and after college. I also owned and operated my own small travel company doing military history tours in Europe. Both of my parents also spent decades in the travel industry. The only times I have ever seen a tour operator cover the cost of lost airfare for a client is the sort of situation in which the client's continued good will and business is worth more to the company than losing them over the airfare. I've seen people fight Terms and Conditions policies related to cancellations of tours; I've even gone to small claims court to serve as a witness in one case. Nobody ever wins.

    Honestly, the airlines offer to allow the tickets to be used for a one year period is fairly generous in my experience. Trying to fight them on this will almost certainly be a long and frustrating waste of time. Fizban should try to find another time over the next year where he can go on a similar trip to the same area. Failing that, the airline may be willing to allow the tickets to be used to another destination, and there's gotta be somewhere worthwhile to go within the next one year. Chalk this up to a learning experience, unfortunately, and make the most of the need to travel within the next year.


    edit: OP, did you ever pay a deposit of any kind to the company operating the Trek? In my experience, no reservation is even remotely official without a deposit (something like $100-$500, or maybe 10-25% of the tour cost). If you discussed availability and dates and details and whatnot but never made a deposit, it's entirely possible you really didn't ever have a reservation. If you did make a deposit that has been (or has to be) refunded, well, you have the evidence of booking that other people in this thread desire.

  • Fizban140Fizban140 Registered User, __BANNED USERS
    edited October 2010
    Reading through the email, buried inbetween thousands of words it says that I have two days to pay or the reservation is not official. I took a little longer than the two days so they just dropped me. I am contacting my bank and seeing if they can cancel the charge, they might be able to. I doubt I will go on vacation anywhere, I would never travel by myself and I doubt I can find any to go somewhere with me that costs $1100.

    533570-1.png
  • GdiguyGdiguy San Diego, CARegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Fizban140 wrote: »
    Reading through the email, buried inbetween thousands of words it says that I have two days to pay or the reservation is not official. I took a little longer than the two days so they just dropped me. I am contacting my bank and seeing if they can cancel the charge, they might be able to. I doubt I will go on vacation anywhere, I would never travel by myself and I doubt I can find any to go somewhere with me that costs $1100.

    I wouldn't recommend this.

    Banks will side with you on chargebacks generally, but the airline will certainly contest it on a legitimate charge, and in this case they're perfectly legally correct... so they'll win, and your bank will be pissed at you for trying to cancel a charge that you just don't want to pay instead of one that's actually a case of someone defrauding you

  • Fizban140Fizban140 Registered User, __BANNED USERS
    edited October 2010
    Actually reading all the emails I received it didn't say I had to do anything further to book a spot on the trek.

    Also I have canceled airline charges before when I was in the military, my leave got denied a week before and I bought my tickets 4 months before, through my bank when the airline would refuse to refund the tickets.

    533570-1.png
  • EshEsh Tending bar. Eating out. Motorcycles. Portland, ORRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Fizban140 wrote: »
    Actually reading all the emails I received it didn't say I had to do anything further to book a spot on the trek.

    Also I have canceled airline charges before when I was in the military, my leave got denied a week before and I bought my tickets 4 months before, through my bank when the airline would refuse to refund the tickets.

    Did it say that or didn't it? Since I doubt the email is actually thousands of words long, maybe you should paste some of it in here for other people to look at?

    Also, I don't know, but is the airline going to have it marked that you did a chargeback (for something that was not their fault) on them next time you try to book a flight through them? Chargebacks are not around for this reason. You shouldn't abuse them.

    "At first he thought it might be a natural occurrence - maybe a rabbit. But upon closer inspection, it was clear a knife had been used. And rabbits don't carry knives."

    Final Fantasy XIV:Lilja Sunblade
  • Fizban140Fizban140 Registered User, __BANNED USERS
    edited October 2010
    I am trying to find where it says I have two days to pay but I can't find it again. It might have been linked in the email to the website. I don't think any of this matters now though, I might go through another trek agency that does the same route on the same dates.

    533570-1.png
  • noir_bloodnoir_blood Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Gdiguy wrote: »
    Fizban140 wrote: »
    Reading through the email, buried inbetween thousands of words it says that I have two days to pay or the reservation is not official. I took a little longer than the two days so they just dropped me. I am contacting my bank and seeing if they can cancel the charge, they might be able to. I doubt I will go on vacation anywhere, I would never travel by myself and I doubt I can find any to go somewhere with me that costs $1100.

    I wouldn't recommend this.

    Banks will side with you on chargebacks generally, but the airline will certainly contest it on a legitimate charge, and in this case they're perfectly legally correct... so they'll win, and your bank will be pissed at you for trying to cancel a charge that you just don't want to pay instead of one that's actually a case of someone defrauding you

    I man the phones for corporate escalations for a hotel chain and I get this sort of call a lot. It's one of my favorite ones actually, because it's honestly really clear cut. Bank will call and let us know that a guest is disputing a charge because he can't make it to the hotel and he booked a non refundable-barring death in the family and hospitalization, they never get their money back. I just mention how if they booked online they have to click on a box saying they agree to the terms and conditions, and how they should have received an email confirmation with all that information.

    Like others have said, your beef is with with the people arranging the trek. And even then, the fact you never received any kind of confirmation should have been a warning sign. Any chance you can change the names of the tickets? Maybe you can't use them, but perhaps you can sell them off.

    Spoiler:
  • Fizban140Fizban140 Registered User, __BANNED USERS
    edited October 2010
    I am actually seeing if I can use it but use a different trek agency, or even go on my own and tag along with the other group, not sure how that would work though.

    533570-1.png
  • saltinesssaltiness Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Have you actually talked to someone at the treking agency? You said in the OP that you think they overbooked. What do you actually know about what happened? Maybe if you just call them and say, "Hey I booked a trip and an airline ticket so I'd really like to be on this trek," they'll just let you go.

    XBL: heavenkils
  • Fizban140Fizban140 Registered User, __BANNED USERS
    edited October 2010
    It turns out I was never booked since I never sent the money.

    533570-1.png
  • KillgrimageKillgrimage Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
  • Fizban140Fizban140 Registered User, __BANNED USERS
    edited October 2010
    Well I didn't know I had to send money to reserve a spot until it was too late.

    533570-1.png
  • see317see317 Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    So, we change the subject line from "Fuck airlines" to "Fuck small print"?

    Ringo wrote: »
    Well except what see317 said. That guy's always wrong.
  • Fizban140Fizban140 Registered User, __BANNED USERS
    edited October 2010
    No still fuck airlines, the manager basically explained to me that the reason they can charge less for these tickets is situations like this, that is why they are cheaper is because they pay for themselves.

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