To answer the age question, we are in our mid 20's. Both of us went to highschool together, she had a huge thing for me for years and i didn't know. Skip ahead 6 years and we have now gotten together. She was the one who actually initiated our relationship in the beginning. She was also the one who wanted to get married. Thats part of what makes this situation so confusing. Nothing has changed in our relationship stress wise, in fact if anything its lessened, i got a better job and she also did. Our money troubles have vanished and things should be going well, but they aren't.
She still smiles at me, and gives me a light kiss once and a while, but thats about all i've gotten this month so far in terms of any kind of affection. It's starting to get very draining, tonight i don't even have the will or desire to even be in the same bed as her, i just feel frustration, and i feel bad about myself for wanting to be with her and always being rejected, i just dont know what i am doing wrong anymore. I love her, a lot, and i don't want to leave her, but i am getting tired of feeling bad about myself all the time, im sick of being depressed perpetually and feeling like i'm always the bad guy but i dont know why.
I'm afraid to talk to her again about this all as well, because i don't want to start another fight because i know that is what will happen, she'll get pissed off and walk out of the room or pretend like i am not talking to her and not answer, or make up some excuse to make it my fault.
Should i just give her back the engagement ring and tell her I need to take a step back? How do i even do this without ending things completely? I don't want it to be over, but i want her to know i am serious about this, and that i am tired of always feeling bad about myself. Hell, i ditched one of my best friends in the world because my Fiance didn't like her and felt uncomfortable with me talking to her (We had had a short relationship 2 or so years back, which turned into said friendship.), I gave up my life/friends in another town to move out and be with her in a city i knew nobody in. It just feels like i've given up everything to get nowhere.
Yeah. Talk about it, but something isn't working. You probably can't fix it. But talking about it is the first step to ending things in a responsible manner, anyway. It could be you're clingy or whatever because you don't know anyone else and she feels stifled. Have you gained weight or otherwise become unattractive? If it's purely physical you might fix things, but if something emotional or in the dynamic has changed and makes her bummed out then there's not much you can do.
You also don't really articulate much in any detail. Either she's showing you how to get her off and you're resenting her, which is stupid on your end, or she is demanding you approach foreplay in a very narrowly defined way, in which case she is crazy.
She is demanding i approach it in a very defined way. That is why it turns me off. I don't mind at all being shown things that she likes, but being told to do things a specific way is not very fun for me at all, it can often ruin the experience completely for me. Which does not help matters at all. She often contradicts herself as well, she wanted me to be less aggressive and more romantic, so i did that. After doing that she then decided the opposite, she wanted aggressive, and when i didn't do aggressive and still did the romance thing, she got angry at me for not knowing what she wanted from me. I think she sometimes just has completely unreasonable expectations of me in certain areas.
Also no, i haven't gained any weight, in fact i've lost weight from ditching my car and walking everywhere. I also started working out in the mornings, not to look good, but because it helps me vent my frustrations and makes me feel a little better all around. I am not an unattractive man, in fact people make passes at me once and a while at the workplace or when i am out and about. I have never had any trouble with women or rejection in the past. Now i found someone i truly want to be with and thats all i get now. Just my luck. I don't even know how to approach her about this without it blowing up in my face and making things worse, i dont want to blame her for it or something, but i also want to fix it. I don't want to be in a relationship where i feel bad about myself for wanting to be with my fiance.
Yeah, i'd get to work on winding this down. You need to talk to her about it first but she just sounds nutty. All this therapy advice is rubbish - if she was telling how to get her off, i'd say you were being unreasonable at being turned off, but it sounds like she's trying to direct the entire sex scenario by telling you when you're doing something wrong. You can try talking about these things but really it sounds like you should have dated longer continuously before getting engaged. Maybe she comes around. If so, great. Maybe if you bring this up she'll raise some concerns of her own that you weren't aware of and everything will get squared away. But if the sex is effectively dead this soon, I don't have much cause for optimism.
From Against Love, by Laura Kapnis, which isn't really against love as much as capitalism:
Yes, we all know that Good Marriages Take Work: we've been well tutored in the catechism of labor-intensive intimacy. Work, work work: given all the heavy lifting required, what's the difference between work and "after work" again? Work/home, office/bedroom: are you ever not on the clock? Good relationships may take work, but, unfortunately, when it comes to love, trying is always trying too hard: work doesn't work. Erotically speaking, play is what works. Or as psychoanlayist Adam Phillips puts it: "In our erotic life... it is no more possible to work at a relationship than it is to will an erection or arrange to have a dream. In fact when you are working at it you know it has gone wrong, that something is already missing."
From Against Love, by Laura Kapnis, which isn't really against love as much as capitalism:
Yes, we all know that Good Marriages Take Work: we've been well tutored in the catechism of labor-intensive intimacy. Work, work work: given all the heavy lifting required, what's the difference between work and "after work" again? Work/home, office/bedroom: are you ever not on the clock? Good relationships may take work, but, unfortunately, when it comes to love, trying is always trying too hard: work doesn't work. Erotically speaking, play is what works. Or as psychoanlayist Adam Phillips puts it: "In our erotic life... it is no more possible to work at a relationship than it is to will an erection or arrange to have a dream. In fact when you are working at it you know it has gone wrong, that something is already missing."
I love this quote so much.
Feral on
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
OP broseph, you're finance sounds like a complete bitch. You say you care about her but what's the point? Are you a glutton for punishment? This vapid cunt has been withholding you sexy time and there is no point in pursuing a chick who causes problems when everything was going ok.
Everyone here is trying to sugar coat things but fuck that. Just move on, you say you been getting your swole on at the gym. Keep doing that and meet some fine ladies at like a club. Step away from the forums and enjoy life bro. Maybe you will meet a hotter chick who is a freak in bed and doesn't have these god damn courting rules like it's the 1400s.
Or you could keep crying about it and not step up to the plate and fucking severe this dying relationship
To answer the age question, we are in our mid 20's. Both of us went to highschool together, she had a huge thing for me for years and i didn't know. Skip ahead 6 years and we have now gotten together. She was the one who actually initiated our relationship in the beginning. She was also the one who wanted to get married. Thats part of what makes this situation so confusing. Nothing has changed in our relationship stress wise, in fact if anything its lessened, i got a better job and she also did. Our money troubles have vanished and things should be going well, but they aren't.
She still smiles at me, and gives me a light kiss once and a while, but thats about all i've gotten this month so far in terms of any kind of affection. It's starting to get very draining, tonight i don't even have the will or desire to even be in the same bed as her, i just feel frustration, and i feel bad about myself for wanting to be with her and always being rejected, i just dont know what i am doing wrong anymore. I love her, a lot, and i don't want to leave her, but i am getting tired of feeling bad about myself all the time, im sick of being depressed perpetually and feeling like i'm always the bad guy but i dont know why.
I'm afraid to talk to her again about this all as well, because i don't want to start another fight because i know that is what will happen, she'll get pissed off and walk out of the room or pretend like i am not talking to her and not answer, or make up some excuse to make it my fault.
Should i just give her back the engagement ring and tell her I need to take a step back? How do i even do this without ending things completely? I don't want it to be over, but i want her to know i am serious about this, and that i am tired of always feeling bad about myself. Hell, i ditched one of my best friends in the world because my Fiance didn't like her and felt uncomfortable with me talking to her (We had had a short relationship 2 or so years back, which turned into said friendship.), I gave up my life/friends in another town to move out and be with her in a city i knew nobody in. It just feels like i've given up everything to get nowhere.
Yeah. Talk about it, but something isn't working. You probably can't fix it. But talking about it is the first step to ending things in a responsible manner, anyway. It could be you're clingy or whatever because you don't know anyone else and she feels stifled. Have you gained weight or otherwise become unattractive? If it's purely physical you might fix things, but if something emotional or in the dynamic has changed and makes her bummed out then there's not much you can do.
You also don't really articulate much in any detail. Either she's showing you how to get her off and you're resenting her, which is stupid on your end, or she is demanding you approach foreplay in a very narrowly defined way, in which case she is crazy.
She is demanding i approach it in a very defined way. That is why it turns me off. I don't mind at all being shown things that she likes, but being told to do things a specific way is not very fun for me at all, it can often ruin the experience completely for me. Which does not help matters at all. She often contradicts herself as well, she wanted me to be less aggressive and more romantic, so i did that. After doing that she then decided the opposite, she wanted aggressive, and when i didn't do aggressive and still did the romance thing, she got angry at me for not knowing what she wanted from me. I think she sometimes just has completely unreasonable expectations of me in certain areas.
Also no, i haven't gained any weight, in fact i've lost weight from ditching my car and walking everywhere. I also started working out in the mornings, not to look good, but because it helps me vent my frustrations and makes me feel a little better all around. I am not an unattractive man, in fact people make passes at me once and a while at the workplace or when i am out and about. I have never had any trouble with women or rejection in the past. Now i found someone i truly want to be with and thats all i get now. Just my luck. I don't even know how to approach her about this without it blowing up in my face and making things worse, i dont want to blame her for it or something, but i also want to fix it. I don't want to be in a relationship where i feel bad about myself for wanting to be with my fiance.
Yeah, i'd get to work on winding this down. You need to talk to her about it first but she just sounds nutty. All this therapy advice is rubbish - if she was telling how to get her off, i'd say you were being unreasonable at being turned off, but it sounds like she's trying to direct the entire sex scenario by telling you when you're doing something wrong. You can try talking about these things but really it sounds like you should have dated longer continuously before getting engaged. Maybe she comes around. If so, great. Maybe if you bring this up she'll raise some concerns of her own that you weren't aware of and everything will get squared away. But if the sex is effectively dead this soon, I don't have much cause for optimism.
From Against Love, by Laura Kapnis, which isn't really against love as much as capitalism:
Yes, we all know that Good Marriages Take Work: we've been well tutored in the catechism of labor-intensive intimacy. Work, work work: given all the heavy lifting required, what's the difference between work and "after work" again? Work/home, office/bedroom: are you ever not on the clock? Good relationships may take work, but, unfortunately, when it comes to love, trying is always trying too hard: work doesn't work. Erotically speaking, play is what works. Or as psychoanlayist Adam Phillips puts it: "In our erotic life... it is no more possible to work at a relationship than it is to will an erection or arrange to have a dream. In fact when you are working at it you know it has gone wrong, that something is already missing."
Well, maybe that's a bad example because it's rather trivial to will an erection or arrange a dream if know yourself and have a decent technique for it.
Anyway, I was kind of in your situation a while ago.
Let's ignore sex for a while. Okay let's take 5 minutes for your maleness to freak out about the concept. Done now? Okay. Putting that off the table, the real question is this: marriage.
You've both got a problem in your relationship. How is she handling it? Because I guarantee you she will use these same mechansims for future, unrelated problems and you will be using yours. How's that conflict resolution working out?
My advice is to give back the ring and be friends. That's what I did with my ex and it worked out fabulously. I'm happy and in a serious relationship getting what I need, and she is out doing her thing and we're friends and it's all good. So, don't take things so seriously. If it's not working, ditch it.
A lesson I learned the hard way: You can be in love with someone and they can love you, and it still doesn't work out because your personalities don't click on other very important areas. Sucks, but it is what it is.
OP broseph, you're finance sounds like a complete bitch. You say you care about her but what's the point? Are you a glutton for punishment? This vapid cunt has been withholding you sexy time and there is no point in pursuing a chick who causes problems when everything was going ok.
Everyone here is trying to sugar coat things but fuck that. Just move on, you say you been getting your swole on at the gym. Keep doing that and meet some fine ladies at like a club. Step away from the forums and enjoy life bro. Maybe you will meet a hotter chick who is a freak in bed and doesn't have these god damn courting rules like it's the 1400s.
Or you could keep crying about it and not step up to the plate and fucking severe this dying relationship
Hey, Bro, why don't you try not being a fucking goose? This isn't the SomethingAwful forums where everyone's knee jerk reaction is "SEVER!" or to immediately be a total asshole by calling a man's fiancee a "Vapid cunt" or a "complete bitch". Yes, she's being cold, and harsh, every body has touched on that while being a lot more tactful.
Anyway OP, regardless if you think it'll start another argument, I think you still need to sit her down. If she starts ignoring you again, even when you mention you're trying to help the relationship, then maybe what you have to do will be a little clearer. No one wants to be with someone who will ignore them when they bring up something important to them.
I'm afraid to talk to her again about this all as well, because i don't want to start another fight because i know that is what will happen, she'll get pissed off and walk out of the room or pretend like i am not talking to her and not answer, or make up some excuse to make it my fault.
If this is what she does when you have arguments, you do NOT want to be married to this girl.
The difference between successful and unsuccessful marriages is the successful ones actually TALK to each other when they get angry.
I'm afraid to talk to her again about this all as well, because i don't want to start another fight because i know that is what will happen, she'll get pissed off and walk out of the room or pretend like i am not talking to her and not answer, or make up some excuse to make it my fault.
If this is what she does when you have arguments, you do NOT want to be married to this girl.
The difference between successful and unsuccessful marriages is the successful ones actually TALK to each other when they get angry.
Exactly
I mean, nobodys perfect and we all have our moments of tongue-sticking-out childishness, but the real test of a relationship is whether you can talk throughthe difficult issues like sex, money, kids, parents, etc etc etc
Your gut and your heart are telling you something is wrong OP, trust it
OP broseph, you're finance sounds like a complete bitch. You say you care about her but what's the point? Are you a glutton for punishment? This vapid cunt has been withholding you sexy time and there is no point in pursuing a chick who causes problems when everything was going ok.
Everyone here is trying to sugar coat things but fuck that. Just move on, you say you been getting your swole on at the gym. Keep doing that and meet some fine ladies at like a club. Step away from the forums and enjoy life bro. Maybe you will meet a hotter chick who is a freak in bed and doesn't have these god damn courting rules like it's the 1400s.
Or you could keep crying about it and not step up to the plate and fucking severe this dying relationship
Hey, Bro, why don't you try not being a fucking goose? This isn't the SomethingAwful forums where everyone's knee jerk reaction is "SEVER!" or to immediately be a total asshole by calling a man's fiancee a "Vapid cunt" or a "complete bitch". Yes, she's being cold, and harsh, every body has touched on that while being a lot more tactful.
Anyway OP, regardless if you think it'll start another argument, I think you still need to sit her down. If she starts ignoring you again, even when you mention you're trying to help the relationship, then maybe what you have to do will be a little clearer. No one wants to be with someone who will ignore them when they bring up something important to them.
I knew we kept you around for a reason, Alyce.
OP: This thread is starting to sound a bit like an echo chamber, but yeah - if she won't communicate, you need to put the engagement rings away and put the wedding plans on hiatus. That doesn't necessarily mean indefinite hiatus, or that the engagement rings won't come come out again, but this is the sort of problem that will likely be aggravated by a marriage.
If she cannot / will not communicate with you after you try to follow the excellent advice given by Feral (Again, note: this doesn't mean 'if she doesn't open up to you by next Tuesday'. Nursing these issues takes a significant time investment - and it's an investment that you should be aware may well not net you any returns), you'd be best served by bowing out of the relationship.
As far as the dating site thing goes: Only the incredibly naive wouldn't consider that a bit suspicious, but I wouldn't put too much weight on that unless further evidence of infidelity crops up. There's a lot of reasons people might go to dating sites that have nothing to do with finding a date.
CNN just linked to an article which touches on a lot of what has been discussed, and follows up with a few useful things on its own. The only thing I'll echo again here is to make sure you work this out now before the "death do us part" bit--a sexless marriage does not seem like your cup of tea. I won't go as far as others to advise a breakup, but do prepare yourself to walk away if you have to.
I'm afraid to talk to her again about this all as well, because i don't want to start another fight because i know that is what will happen, she'll get pissed off and walk out of the room or pretend like i am not talking to her and not answer, or make up some excuse to make it my fault.
Should i just give her back the engagement ring and tell her I need to take a step back? How do i even do this without ending things completely? I don't want it to be over, but i want her to know i am serious about this, and that i am tired of always feeling bad about myself. Hell, i ditched one of my best friends in the world because my Fiance didn't like her and felt uncomfortable with me talking to her (We had had a short relationship 2 or so years back, which turned into said friendship.), I gave up my life/friends in another town to move out and be with her in a city i knew nobody in. It just feels like i've given up everything to get nowhere.
When you can't even bring up the problem for fear of the other party flouncing off angrily, it's time to rethink the relationship.
Reading your second paragraph, alarm bells are blaring in my head. Reread what you've written and pretend it was written by someone else. Pretend it was written by a girl. Would you tell her to stay with someone who always makes her feel like crap, demands that she give up friends, who blames her for everything, and who refuses to talk about problems in the relationship? Sounds to me like you're headed for misery if you marry this girl.
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Yeah, i'd get to work on winding this down. You need to talk to her about it first but she just sounds nutty. All this therapy advice is rubbish - if she was telling how to get her off, i'd say you were being unreasonable at being turned off, but it sounds like she's trying to direct the entire sex scenario by telling you when you're doing something wrong. You can try talking about these things but really it sounds like you should have dated longer continuously before getting engaged. Maybe she comes around. If so, great. Maybe if you bring this up she'll raise some concerns of her own that you weren't aware of and everything will get squared away. But if the sex is effectively dead this soon, I don't have much cause for optimism.
From Against Love, by Laura Kapnis, which isn't really against love as much as capitalism:
I love this quote so much.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
Everyone here is trying to sugar coat things but fuck that. Just move on, you say you been getting your swole on at the gym. Keep doing that and meet some fine ladies at like a club. Step away from the forums and enjoy life bro. Maybe you will meet a hotter chick who is a freak in bed and doesn't have these god damn courting rules like it's the 1400s.
Or you could keep crying about it and not step up to the plate and fucking severe this dying relationship
Well, maybe that's a bad example because it's rather trivial to will an erection or arrange a dream if know yourself and have a decent technique for it.
Anyway, I was kind of in your situation a while ago.
Let's ignore sex for a while. Okay let's take 5 minutes for your maleness to freak out about the concept. Done now? Okay. Putting that off the table, the real question is this: marriage.
You've both got a problem in your relationship. How is she handling it? Because I guarantee you she will use these same mechansims for future, unrelated problems and you will be using yours. How's that conflict resolution working out?
My advice is to give back the ring and be friends. That's what I did with my ex and it worked out fabulously. I'm happy and in a serious relationship getting what I need, and she is out doing her thing and we're friends and it's all good. So, don't take things so seriously. If it's not working, ditch it.
A lesson I learned the hard way: You can be in love with someone and they can love you, and it still doesn't work out because your personalities don't click on other very important areas. Sucks, but it is what it is.
Hey, Bro, why don't you try not being a fucking goose? This isn't the SomethingAwful forums where everyone's knee jerk reaction is "SEVER!" or to immediately be a total asshole by calling a man's fiancee a "Vapid cunt" or a "complete bitch". Yes, she's being cold, and harsh, every body has touched on that while being a lot more tactful.
Anyway OP, regardless if you think it'll start another argument, I think you still need to sit her down. If she starts ignoring you again, even when you mention you're trying to help the relationship, then maybe what you have to do will be a little clearer. No one wants to be with someone who will ignore them when they bring up something important to them.
Check out my art! Buy some prints!
If this is what she does when you have arguments, you do NOT want to be married to this girl.
The difference between successful and unsuccessful marriages is the successful ones actually TALK to each other when they get angry.
Exactly
I mean, nobodys perfect and we all have our moments of tongue-sticking-out childishness, but the real test of a relationship is whether you can talk throughthe difficult issues like sex, money, kids, parents, etc etc etc
Your gut and your heart are telling you something is wrong OP, trust it
I knew we kept you around for a reason, Alyce.
OP: This thread is starting to sound a bit like an echo chamber, but yeah - if she won't communicate, you need to put the engagement rings away and put the wedding plans on hiatus. That doesn't necessarily mean indefinite hiatus, or that the engagement rings won't come come out again, but this is the sort of problem that will likely be aggravated by a marriage.
If she cannot / will not communicate with you after you try to follow the excellent advice given by Feral (Again, note: this doesn't mean 'if she doesn't open up to you by next Tuesday'. Nursing these issues takes a significant time investment - and it's an investment that you should be aware may well not net you any returns), you'd be best served by bowing out of the relationship.
As far as the dating site thing goes: Only the incredibly naive wouldn't consider that a bit suspicious, but I wouldn't put too much weight on that unless further evidence of infidelity crops up. There's a lot of reasons people might go to dating sites that have nothing to do with finding a date.
When you can't even bring up the problem for fear of the other party flouncing off angrily, it's time to rethink the relationship.
Reading your second paragraph, alarm bells are blaring in my head. Reread what you've written and pretend it was written by someone else. Pretend it was written by a girl. Would you tell her to stay with someone who always makes her feel like crap, demands that she give up friends, who blames her for everything, and who refuses to talk about problems in the relationship? Sounds to me like you're headed for misery if you marry this girl.