There comes a point where if you can play a certain number of songs well, just from muscle-memory, you'll gradually be able to:
a) play other songs that use the same chords, licks, etc.
b) improvise a little (with many mistakes at the beginning, but gradually building up an "instinct" as to what sounds right
c) Figure out how to play songs that don't necessarily follow the patterns of the songs you already know by heart, just from becoming more comfortable and familiar with the instrument
d) If you're not tone-deaf, and at least a little bit creative, you can eventually start composing simple songs
Many guitarists learned their craft by first learning how to play their favorite songs, and then building their skills from that point. Pro mode can become this initial phase (and more) and might even make it more fun than it would otherwise be. The ones who are really interested will then graduate through the 4 steps I listed above, and the ones who don't care as much will just play Rock Band. And there's nothing wrong with either choice.
There comes a point where if you can play a certain number of songs well, just from muscle-memory, you'll gradually be able to:
a) play other songs that use the same chords, licks, etc.
b) improvise a little (with many mistakes at the beginning, but gradually building up an "instinct" as to what sounds right
c) Figure out how to play songs that don't necessarily follow the patterns of the songs you already know by heart, just from becoming more comfortable and familiar with the instrument
d) If you're not tone-deaf, and at least a little bit creative, you can eventually start composing simple songs
Many guitarists learned their craft by first learning how to play their favorite songs, and then building their skills from that point. Pro mode can become this initial phase (and more) and might even make it more fun than it would otherwise be. The ones who are really interested will then graduate through the 4 steps I listed above, and the ones who don't care as much will just play Rock Band. And there's nothing wrong with either choice.
I won't deny any of that because what the fuck do I know
but it definitely seems like a very "top-down" approach to learning an instrument and it makes way more sense to me to start with the fundamentals and work up to learning to play and/or compose songs
So that Power Gig thing is out. Anyone mess around with it yet?
Don't know about the game, but I did see a real life commercial in the wild on TV for it yesterday. At least they're making a little headway versus Rock Revolution.
Though the commercial is absolutely terrible. At first I thought it was a RB3 spot, then when it got worse and worse, I got really afraid until they said Powergig.
Omeks on
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David_TA fashion yes-man is no good to me.Copenhagen, DenmarkRegistered Userregular
edited October 2010
For all the talk of what learning a specific song will do for people, there's a whole Pro Guitar tutorial part that's gonna teach you notes, chords, scales, starting on the easy stuff and ramping up. There's more to Pro Guitar than just "Hey, pick a song, play the notes".
There comes a point where if you can play a certain number of songs well, just from muscle-memory, you'll gradually be able to:
a) play other songs that use the same chords, licks, etc.
b) improvise a little (with many mistakes at the beginning, but gradually building up an "instinct" as to what sounds right
c) Figure out how to play songs that don't necessarily follow the patterns of the songs you already know by heart, just from becoming more comfortable and familiar with the instrument
d) If you're not tone-deaf, and at least a little bit creative, you can eventually start composing simple songs
Many guitarists learned their craft by first learning how to play their favorite songs, and then building their skills from that point. Pro mode can become this initial phase (and more) and might even make it more fun than it would otherwise be. The ones who are really interested will then graduate through the 4 steps I listed above, and the ones who don't care as much will just play Rock Band. And there's nothing wrong with either choice.
I won't deny any of that because what the fuck do I know
but it definitely seems like a very "top-down" approach to learning an instrument and it makes way more sense to me to start with the fundamentals and work up to learning to play and/or compose songs
I'm not saying this is the only way to learn, I'm just showing a credible path where Pro Mode plays a significant part in learning to play guitar.
Some people learn better (or just prefer to learn) by doing, while others like to learn the theory, first, and then do exercises until they feel confident enough to "really"play.
It's kind of like people who "learn to play by ear" as opposed to those people who took courses to learn music "properly". There are lots of great musicians that never learned any theory, and there are plenty of shitty musicians who know all the theory.
If your goal is to become a proficient guitarist with impeccable technique, and a full understanding of the musical theory behind what you're doing, then you shouldn't consider the "RB3 Pro Mode" method as the best way for you to learn. But if you just want to learn enough about guitar to be able to have fun with it, and maybe learn how to play a couple dozen songs to impress your friends, with the possibility of it leading something more serious later, then the RB3 Pro Mode method seems like it could be a nice fit.
To jump into the pro-mode discussion: I've tried to learn the guitar with books and dvd tutorials. Either I am so terrible that I can't learn at all or I may need something like that. This game is kind of a multi-tier thing for me. It may teach me the basics of moving my hands and getting placement down that can then transfer to it being easier to learning to play real guitar. On the bonus hand it is a game I can play with my friends and have a blast while I start back from the difficulty of a beginner. I can't wait for the game...counting down. Unfortunately I cannot get the pro guitar or keyboard until next month.
While I understand going slow with releasing things like Billy Joel couldn't they skip some of the BS and just release Glass Houses or The Stranger in their entirety? Also, where's the Tom Waits? They have no excuse now.
There comes a point where if you can play a certain number of songs well, just from muscle-memory, you'll gradually be able to:
a) play other songs that use the same chords, licks, etc.
b) improvise a little (with many mistakes at the beginning, but gradually building up an "instinct" as to what sounds right
c) Figure out how to play songs that don't necessarily follow the patterns of the songs you already know by heart, just from becoming more comfortable and familiar with the instrument
d) If you're not tone-deaf, and at least a little bit creative, you can eventually start composing simple songs
Many guitarists learned their craft by first learning how to play their favorite songs, and then building their skills from that point. Pro mode can become this initial phase (and more) and might even make it more fun than it would otherwise be. The ones who are really interested will then graduate through the 4 steps I listed above, and the ones who don't care as much will just play Rock Band. And there's nothing wrong with either choice.
I won't deny any of that because what the fuck do I know
but it definitely seems like a very "top-down" approach to learning an instrument and it makes way more sense to me to start with the fundamentals and work up to learning to play and/or compose songs
You are completely, 100% right.
However, that doesn't mean that isn't how a SHITTON of guitarists (I'd wager to say most people who claim to play the guitar) have learned, only with tabs downloaded off the internet instead of Pro Mode charts.
There are two separate and distinct arguments to be made: the argument for rote learning vs. actual music theory, and the argument for Pro Mode versus tabs.
Just wanted to say I just watched the pro mode trailer with guitar in hand, and was playing along with inxs and filter right away. I paused it a few times to attempt to figure out shapes, but then when I noticed the chord names on the side, it was awesome. Once you use the shape to know what you're attempting to do, the chord name makes it crystal clear what theyre asking. I'm very impressed.
This is the real deal. Once you wrap your brian around how things look, it's pretty awesome.
mxmarks on
PSN: mxmarks - WiiU: mxmarks - twitter: @ MikesPS4 - twitch.tv/mxmarks - "Yes, mxmarks is the King of Queens" - Unbreakable Vow
LegacyStuck Somewhere In CyberspaceThe Grid(Seattle)Registered User, ClubPAregular
edited October 2010
To anyone who has this/gets it early, I just want to know one thing...can you use characters from someone elses profile while logged into your own? In RB2, I always want to use my friend's characters he made for my friends and me, but you can only use your own profile's characters while logged into that profile. So annoying. Though, I guess I'll know in a few days anyway...
Legacy on
Can we get the chemicals in. 'Cause anything's better than this.
Ok, I want to ask this question to make sure I'm not crazy.
In RB2, if you've calibrated your system (mine is set to 25ms/25ms, so it's not huge) and then you try to go into training and play a section at less than full speed, is the calibration wildly off? It seems like the metronome that ticks in the background does not get adjusted to the calibration settings, so everything is just way off sync; by that, I mean the notes are scrolling at 25ms/25ms, but the ticker is beeping as if it was 0ms/0ms. It's really frustrating, because there are a few parts I want to practice at 60 or 70% speed, and I actually have to mute my TV because the metronome messes me up terribly. This is not the case when played at 100% speed, though.
Surely this isn't just me. Is this a documented problem with RB2? I hope they fix it with RB3.
XenoScholar on
Check out my demonstration of the Street Fighter 4 hard trial combos, showing hands on the joystick, on my Youtube channel!
Current characters done: Ryu, Dan, C. Viper
Xbox Live: Infilament
I expected real positive reviews. But the trend with Green Day and Lego and all that leaned towards "Eh, its good still. More of the same though. But good!"
So I was expecting "Yeah, its good! Better than RB2. Its got a keyboard! But more of the same."
I was NOT expecting "Only music game you ever need." and two separate reviews saying that Harmonix has nowhere to go now because its pretty much "perfect".
mxmarks on
PSN: mxmarks - WiiU: mxmarks - twitter: @ MikesPS4 - twitch.tv/mxmarks - "Yes, mxmarks is the King of Queens" - Unbreakable Vow
So digging around online I just found out that APPARENTLY the R.E.M. pack has HARMONIES on it.
This is AMAZING for "Superman". And the rest of the pack.
People are saying the Hendrix pack has them as well. I guess with those 2 packs the Harmonies are PART of the DLC.
Whereas Backspacer, Ten and some of the Green Day packs do NOT have harmonies in the DLC...but the harmony tracks are on the RB3 disc itself...
If this is true I can't say I'm surprised.
When singing "It's the End of the World..." I just kept waiting and waiting and waiting for the point where it would score the "time I had some time alone" line. I figured if it were intended to be a solo vocal track it would have jumped back and forth in the same way they did for the dueling lines of Blink 182's "Feeling This".
So guys about the second bass/hi-hat pedal... how can ION owners get in on this?
ION are releasing the Drum Rocker Pro Pedal which has a little beater and pad, and they've said that you'll be able to use the other pedal alongside the new one through a Y-cable.
No idea when it's coming, or how much it costs, but it's there and looks awesome.
SporkAndrew on
The one about the fucking space hairdresser and the cowboy. He's got a tinfoil pal and a pedal bin
So guys about the second bass/hi-hat pedal... how can ION owners get in on this?
ION are releasing the Drum Rocker Pro Pedal which has a little beater and pad, and they've said that you'll be able to use the other pedal alongside the new one through a Y-cable.
No idea when it's coming, or how much it costs, but it's there and looks awesome.
So I'll just hook my Destroyer up to that via the included Y-cable and I'll be good to go, I guess.
I know that the pedal that comes with the ION stock is actually a hi-hat pedal but that broke on me a long time ago (which lead to me getting a Destroyer) so, ha-hah, I'm a bit wary of purchasing another "actual" e-drum hi-hat pedal for Rock Band usage.
There comes a point where if you can play a certain number of songs well, just from muscle-memory, you'll gradually be able to:
a) play other songs that use the same chords, licks, etc.
b) improvise a little (with many mistakes at the beginning, but gradually building up an "instinct" as to what sounds right
c) Figure out how to play songs that don't necessarily follow the patterns of the songs you already know by heart, just from becoming more comfortable and familiar with the instrument
d) If you're not tone-deaf, and at least a little bit creative, you can eventually start composing simple songs
Many guitarists learned their craft by first learning how to play their favorite songs, and then building their skills from that point. Pro mode can become this initial phase (and more) and might even make it more fun than it would otherwise be. The ones who are really interested will then graduate through the 4 steps I listed above, and the ones who don't care as much will just play Rock Band. And there's nothing wrong with either choice.
I personally learned to play guitar by starting from tabs, so I definitely agree it's possible, but I think what Santa is saying, and I agree with him on this, is that there's a physical jump you have to make with something like Rock Band to go from playing it on the game to playing it on your porch. I may be wrong, but my feeling is if you want to actually learn the song, you're going to have to sit down with practice mode and go through it section by section, learning to play the song without the scrolling numbers.
I've experienced this with a light-up keyboard we have. I got to where I could play several songs with ease by using the lights, but when I wanted to actually learn how to play the song, to play on a regular piano for example, I pretty much had to start over and go piece by piece. I think the brain just processes the two differently or something. When you're following the prompts, you're basically using those as a crutch and not actually learning the song. You may know, "Okay, this part needs my hands over here", but you probably aren't knowing exactly what you're going to be doing unless you've specifically tried to learn that.
Basically, we're not saying it won't be possible to learn to play songs on the guitar by using Pro Mode as a start, and to venture out from there to actually become a musician. We're saying it's going to take more work than just getting good at the game. If you're willing to put in that work, then I think it will be basically like learning from tabs, but I don't know how many people will actually do that, or realize that it's basically twice as much effort.
quick question because I haven't heard anything yet: For like $5 do I get to export all of my RB2 tracks off the disc to be used in RB3? I don't wanna lose some of those.
We announced the epic Rock Band 3 launch DLC from The Doors last week, but here's the rest of the juicy details! The full track list, pack info, pricing and the rundown on how to get 3 FREE SONGS (with Pro upgrades!) from one of the most legendary rock bands of all time. The free songs will only be available for the first week, and only through the in game store, so don't forget to pick up RB3 on launch day... that's next Tuesday, 10/26! We're almost there!
Available on Xbox 360, Wii and PlayStation 3 system (Oct. 26):
“Light My Fire” X (Free from Oct. 26 – Nov. 1 in game, features Pro Guitar and Pro Bass)
“Riders on the Storm” X (Free from Oct. 26 – Nov. 1 in game, features Pro Guitar and Pro Bass)
“Touch Me” X (Free from Oct. 26 – Nov. 1 in game, features Pro Guitar and Pro Bass)
“Hello, I Love You”
“L.A. Woman”
“Love Her Madly”
“Love Me Two Times”
“Peace Frog”
“People Are Strange”
“Roadhouse Blues”
“Soul Kitchen”
“The Crystal Ship”
(All tracks are original master recordings)
(These tracks will be available in Europe on PlayStation 3 system Oct. 27)
These tracks will be available as “The Doors RB3 FREE Launch Pack” and “The Doors Greatest Hits: Special Edition” on Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 system and as “The Doors Greatest Hits: Special Edition,” which will include the three free tracks, or as individual, free singles (“Light My Fire,” “Riders on the Storm” and “Touch Me” only) on Wii. Tracks marked with “X” will include Pro Guitar and Pro Bass expansions. Beginning Nov. 2, these tracks will be available as “The Doors Greatest Hits: Special Edition” on Xbox 360, PlayStation 3 system and Wii, or as individual downloads.
quick question because I haven't heard anything yet: For like $5 do I get to export all of my RB2 tracks off the disc to be used in RB3? I don't wanna lose some of those.
shockingly enough, we still don't have any details about the RB2 export
quick question because I haven't heard anything yet: For like $5 do I get to export all of my RB2 tracks off the disc to be used in RB3? I don't wanna lose some of those.
So Rockbandaide reports this:
He tells us that the Rock Band 2 export will be $9.99 for ALL consoles, will include a “vast majority of the songs in Rock Band 2,” and will be available on launch day.
So I hope you aren't that attached to RHCP and Soundgarden. Those two (and probably Metallica) are the likely candidates that are missing the RB3 train.
So I hope you aren't that attached to RHCP and Soundgarden. Those two (and probably Metallica) are the likely candidates that are missing the RB3 train.
Those that got the early RB3 leak noticed that Dani California and Black Hole Sun didn't make the jump.
DUM DUM DUM!
EDIT: It wouldn't surprise me because Soundgarden did something with Pig Hero (was it a new single? I can't remember). Also, there's the rumor of GH: RHCP so....grain of salt you know.
quick question because I haven't heard anything yet: For like $5 do I get to export all of my RB2 tracks off the disc to be used in RB3? I don't wanna lose some of those.
shockingly enough, we still don't have any details about the RB2 export
Posts
a) play other songs that use the same chords, licks, etc.
b) improvise a little (with many mistakes at the beginning, but gradually building up an "instinct" as to what sounds right
c) Figure out how to play songs that don't necessarily follow the patterns of the songs you already know by heart, just from becoming more comfortable and familiar with the instrument
d) If you're not tone-deaf, and at least a little bit creative, you can eventually start composing simple songs
Many guitarists learned their craft by first learning how to play their favorite songs, and then building their skills from that point. Pro mode can become this initial phase (and more) and might even make it more fun than it would otherwise be. The ones who are really interested will then graduate through the 4 steps I listed above, and the ones who don't care as much will just play Rock Band. And there's nothing wrong with either choice.
Check out my new blog: http://50wordstories.ca
Also check out my old game design blog: http://stealmygamedesigns.blogspot.com
I won't deny any of that because what the fuck do I know
but it definitely seems like a very "top-down" approach to learning an instrument and it makes way more sense to me to start with the fundamentals and work up to learning to play and/or compose songs
http://www.audioentropy.com/
Don't know about the game, but I did see a real life commercial in the wild on TV for it yesterday. At least they're making a little headway versus Rock Revolution.
Though the commercial is absolutely terrible. At first I thought it was a RB3 spot, then when it got worse and worse, I got really afraid until they said Powergig.
|Xbox Live Tag: Omeks
|PSN Tag: Omeks_R7
|Rock Band: Profile|DLC Collection
I heard theres some game with a pig guy that has a lot of Rush in it.
visions sucks
I'm not saying this is the only way to learn, I'm just showing a credible path where Pro Mode plays a significant part in learning to play guitar.
Some people learn better (or just prefer to learn) by doing, while others like to learn the theory, first, and then do exercises until they feel confident enough to "really"play.
It's kind of like people who "learn to play by ear" as opposed to those people who took courses to learn music "properly". There are lots of great musicians that never learned any theory, and there are plenty of shitty musicians who know all the theory.
If your goal is to become a proficient guitarist with impeccable technique, and a full understanding of the musical theory behind what you're doing, then you shouldn't consider the "RB3 Pro Mode" method as the best way for you to learn. But if you just want to learn enough about guitar to be able to have fun with it, and maybe learn how to play a couple dozen songs to impress your friends, with the possibility of it leading something more serious later, then the RB3 Pro Mode method seems like it could be a nice fit.
Check out my new blog: http://50wordstories.ca
Also check out my old game design blog: http://stealmygamedesigns.blogspot.com
While I understand going slow with releasing things like Billy Joel couldn't they skip some of the BS and just release Glass Houses or The Stranger in their entirety? Also, where's the Tom Waits? They have no excuse now.
You are completely, 100% right.
However, that doesn't mean that isn't how a SHITTON of guitarists (I'd wager to say most people who claim to play the guitar) have learned, only with tabs downloaded off the internet instead of Pro Mode charts.
There are two separate and distinct arguments to be made: the argument for rote learning vs. actual music theory, and the argument for Pro Mode versus tabs.
This is the real deal. Once you wrap your brian around how things look, it's pretty awesome.
http://www.destructoid.com/review-rock-band-3
http://www.joystiq.com/2010/10/22/rock-band-3-review/
In RB2, if you've calibrated your system (mine is set to 25ms/25ms, so it's not huge) and then you try to go into training and play a section at less than full speed, is the calibration wildly off? It seems like the metronome that ticks in the background does not get adjusted to the calibration settings, so everything is just way off sync; by that, I mean the notes are scrolling at 25ms/25ms, but the ticker is beeping as if it was 0ms/0ms. It's really frustrating, because there are a few parts I want to practice at 60 or 70% speed, and I actually have to mute my TV because the metronome messes me up terribly. This is not the case when played at 100% speed, though.
Surely this isn't just me. Is this a documented problem with RB2? I hope they fix it with RB3.
Current characters done: Ryu, Dan, C. Viper
Xbox Live: Infilament
Knew the reviews would be glowing
Doesn't mean I don't love reading universal praise
So I was expecting "Yeah, its good! Better than RB2. Its got a keyboard! But more of the same."
I was NOT expecting "Only music game you ever need." and two separate reviews saying that Harmonix has nowhere to go now because its pretty much "perfect".
http://gameinformer.com/games/rock_band_3/b/xbox360/archive/2010/10/15/rock-band-3-review-a-whole-new-challenge.aspx
This is AMAZING for "Superman". And the rest of the pack.
People are saying the Hendrix pack has them as well. I guess with those 2 packs the Harmonies are PART of the DLC.
Whereas Backspacer, Ten and some of the Green Day packs do NOT have harmonies in the DLC...but the harmony tracks are on the RB3 disc itself...
that just happened to me with Bohemian Rhapsody
http://www.audioentropy.com/
Then "In The Meantime" by Spacehog came on and I was like "Oh I love this song!"
...then I remembered and it was glorious.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
If this is true I can't say I'm surprised.
When singing "It's the End of the World..." I just kept waiting and waiting and waiting for the point where it would score the "time I had some time alone" line. I figured if it were intended to be a solo vocal track it would have jumped back and forth in the same way they did for the dueling lines of Blink 182's "Feeling This".
ION are releasing the Drum Rocker Pro Pedal which has a little beater and pad, and they've said that you'll be able to use the other pedal alongside the new one through a Y-cable.
No idea when it's coming, or how much it costs, but it's there and looks awesome.
So I'll just hook my Destroyer up to that via the included Y-cable and I'll be good to go, I guess.
I know that the pedal that comes with the ION stock is actually a hi-hat pedal but that broke on me a long time ago (which lead to me getting a Destroyer) so, ha-hah, I'm a bit wary of purchasing another "actual" e-drum hi-hat pedal for Rock Band usage.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
I personally learned to play guitar by starting from tabs, so I definitely agree it's possible, but I think what Santa is saying, and I agree with him on this, is that there's a physical jump you have to make with something like Rock Band to go from playing it on the game to playing it on your porch. I may be wrong, but my feeling is if you want to actually learn the song, you're going to have to sit down with practice mode and go through it section by section, learning to play the song without the scrolling numbers.
I've experienced this with a light-up keyboard we have. I got to where I could play several songs with ease by using the lights, but when I wanted to actually learn how to play the song, to play on a regular piano for example, I pretty much had to start over and go piece by piece. I think the brain just processes the two differently or something. When you're following the prompts, you're basically using those as a crutch and not actually learning the song. You may know, "Okay, this part needs my hands over here", but you probably aren't knowing exactly what you're going to be doing unless you've specifically tried to learn that.
Basically, we're not saying it won't be possible to learn to play songs on the guitar by using Pro Mode as a start, and to venture out from there to actually become a musician. We're saying it's going to take more work than just getting good at the game. If you're willing to put in that work, then I think it will be basically like learning from tabs, but I don't know how many people will actually do that, or realize that it's basically twice as much effort.
shockingly enough, we still don't have any details about the RB2 export
edit: how about some instrument reviews?
http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/22/rock-band-3-fender-mustang-pro-guitar-review/
http://gizmodo.com/5670348/rock-band-3-instruments-review
So Rockbandaide reports this:
So I hope you aren't that attached to RHCP and Soundgarden. Those two (and probably Metallica) are the likely candidates that are missing the RB3 train.
No Spoonman?
DUM DUM DUM!
EDIT: It wouldn't surprise me because Soundgarden did something with Pig Hero (was it a new single? I can't remember). Also, there's the rumor of GH: RHCP so....grain of salt you know.
you mean there were further deletions off the RB1 export list for RB3? that's extra lame.
I want that guitar, but I am so, so afraid of it.
Guess that rumor from a few months back about there being a Soundgarden DLC pack doesn't really apply anymore.
*Fuck you Guitar Hero.*
AHEM...oops...my bad...forgot I was in the old thread...
|Xbox Live Tag: Omeks
|PSN Tag: Omeks_R7
|Rock Band: Profile|DLC Collection