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On Education, Unions, Teachers and Pay
Posts
League of Legends: Lamby Cakes | XBox Live: Jon Butters
Tenure should definitely be harder to get, though.
I figured you'd hop on with the others and still not answer a single question I've asked you. Let's clear something up...
I'm not saying teachers are white knights who are the most important people since Jesus. I am of the extreme opinion that teachers should enter the building, teach their subject, and leave it at that. The reality is, they are expected to be de facto parents in addition to their subject. THAT'S where the 60 hours come from, from bullshit. They do it because they're forced to, not because they want to or they're noble. And why is this? Because people look at the numbers and say, "Teachers aren't doing enough!" when there are so many other things. I'm arguing that parenting is the most important job and teachers SHOULD BE no different from chemists or mechanics or periodontists.
This is about teacher evaluation. Metrics, that was a word used by you. Can you at the very least agree to that fact?
OK, what you said, if I understand correctly, is that your chemicals sometimes vary from what they should be, and this causes you problems. This makes metrics difficult. My argument is that human beings are living variables, and "what they should be" is the exception rather than the rule. This does not make the teacher smarter, or more important, or better than you, it simply makes metrics much more difficult to establish.
Please read this and respond to what I've actually written.
I'm totally open to a merit based system
as soon as anyone in the world proposes one that is workable
STEAM ID
Another note: I don't know a damn thing about tenure or unions. I have the "right to work."
Try again though. Unless you're claiming teachers are the only profession to deal with human clients and the variables living entities bring with them.
Good enough for you?
Seriously? Are you for real?
Answer one question for me, are you perhaps within your 1st to 3rd semester of college?
EDIT: Also, do you know what the term 'metric' means? Maybe mile-stone or goal? Accomplishment? Pass-fail?
I like the way you think
You have to start somewhere. You cannot let the current trend of poor test scores and poor graduation rates especially in underprivileged communities continue.
League of Legends: Lamby Cakes | XBox Live: Jon Butters
I mean, is it really so hard to believe that a high school freshman should be able to name the three branches of the federal government and explain the system of checks and balances? And if a sizable portion of a particular teacher's class can't do that, there is something horribly wrong going on in that classroom?
Because then what you get is teaching to the test, so instead of focusing on overall comprehension the teacher spends their time making sure everyone knows the three branches of government, checks and balances, and nothing else.
Note: I am pro-metrics I just am not sure what those metrics should be.
OK, so the social worker is given thirty cases and is judged according to how their clients are doing, alcoholics are now drinking less or families are now less abusive, etc.
How does this have anything to do with how well they do on their chemistry test? You've given me a test of how well you can judge a person who's job is to deal with people with problems. A teacher's job, theoretically, is to teach students difficult concepts. I'm missing the connection. I'm also curious on how either of these things are comparable to mislabeled chemicals.
Once again you downplay what profession X does and overly simplify it and then inflate what a teacher does.
This is the thing. This here. It's what you're doing wrong.
I agree. Shitty teachers are shitty and are stealing from tax-payers. But many times shitty teachers get average numbers because of the student they get and good teachers get bad ones due to the bad students they get. These can flip from year to year and make the teachers look similar on paper.
I understand that fear but not all metrics applied mean teaching to the test. Test that gauge basic math skills and basic reading comprehension are more than fair.
League of Legends: Lamby Cakes | XBox Live: Jon Butters
Though now that I'm out of school I don't feel nearly as strongly about abolishing it.
That's why the tests should be essay questions (or at least short answer) and the questions shouldn't be revealed until the students open the quiz book.
So instead of, say, "Which of the following is a branch of the federal government?" and then ABCDE, you get something like, "What is the role of the Supreme Court and how are justices appointed?"
No I'm not. Read this, this right here: TEACHERS ARE EXPECTED TO COMPENSATE FOR LOUSY PARENTING. They are expected to do this by "getting kids to care." I am not saying this. I am not arguing this. If it makes you happy, I say "fuck teachers." I'm just curious how you can measure the quality of people whose job description is "teach chemistry" when it's a complete crapshoot as to whether you get people who actually want to learn how to do chemistry.
But you can factor this into the way teachers evaluated, have a system for teachers to identify and report problem students which will then be factored into the end of year reviews.
hi5 for same opinions
hey satan...: thinkgeek amazon My post | my website
If we went through it then by God so should the next generation.
I like this. Then the question becomes, how do you get the kids to take the test seriously?
You simply can't avoid standardized testing entirely. It's just not feasible. The data isn't always fair but it is relevant and should be considered at least to a point.
League of Legends: Lamby Cakes | XBox Live: Jon Butters
The SAT is a better test now that it has been changes than how it was when I took it and it was just math & english
I agree completely
it's just that
1) I don't think the supposed epidemic of teacher incompetence is a significant part of the problem
2) I haven't seen a workable method for evaluating teacher performance that doesn't incentivize cheating or narrow "sponge teaching" with no focus on critical thinking
3) There's a much bigger fucking problem here and it's the funding structure
STEAM ID
I agree with you intellectually, it's just the implementation of standardized tests has been lackluster at best. Most kids are just all "shiiiiiit time to fill in some circles for six hours". I wrote my last SOL essay on Spock.
In theory, yes. But you have teachers with different standards. To some, most kids are troublemakers or idiots. To others, most kids are good kids at heart who just need a chance.
Also, many administrators and people in authority are "good ol' boys" [bear with me, I'm from the South] who have been around for awhile when many of them should never have started.
http://www.theonion.com/articles/sat-found-to-be-biased-in-favor-of-nonhungover,9344/
Also, just because it's relevant:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDZFcDGpL4U
http://www.theonion.com/video/in-the-know-are-tests-biased-against-students-who,17966/
Yes but when you get down to it people will always be the one problem with objectively evaluating people. And almost everyone agrees that the system needs to be reworked, its just that nobody can agree exactly how.
Improved standardized testing that is randomized based on subject and level specifically focusing on essay and comprehension more than multiple choice/right or wrong. In class evaluations by other teaching professionals. Parent and guardian evaluations. Things done outside of the classroom with students. College acceptance levels in the school. Successful graduation rates. SAT scores. Tracking students and how they perform after leaving that school system.
Or something. Anything. Not just "it's hard, so let's just throw money at it for the children".
The egregious misconception that the south is full of idiots
lets jump in the real here
you want teachers to teach you how to test because that has a direct result on how much fucking money you get when you are done with school
jesus fuck
Well I do so I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree
How much of any of these suggestions have even been tried? Who knows what's workable and what's not?
A metrics system that increases the value of quality teaching and eliminates the waste that is bad teachers would address this to a point, no?
League of Legends: Lamby Cakes | XBox Live: Jon Butters
If I told you I'll give you $1 for every pencil you give me and $2 broken pencil you give me and you have 10 pencils, 2 of which are already broken; How many broken pencils will I receive?