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Best Korea and Dear Leader's Howitzers

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Posts

  • His CorkinessHis Corkiness Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Fizban140 wrote: »
    That is for active only, if NK was to go to war they could field more troops than any other country. Maybe not all equiped or in shape or anything but it would be around 10 million people.
    Going by this page, Russia has 20 million in reserve and South Korea's is only a bit smaller than North Korea's. And, if it came down to it, China and India could probably field a much bigger army than is listed there.

    I think this is pretty much an artifact of the fact that NK's population are essentially all slaves to the regime and hence could be pressed into service if needed. That doesn't mean they're functionally troops in any meaningful form, and in a total war scenario more populous countries could easily match them.

    His Corkiness on
  • DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Here's a question. Would they have enough guns to arm their soldiers?

    DanHibiki on
  • IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited November 2010
    It really doesn't matter. Nobody is going to be getting into a melee with them.

    We have explosives for this.

    Incenjucar on
  • DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    It really doesn't matter. Nobody is going to be getting into a melee with them.

    We have explosives for this.

    So, you propose complete genocide?

    DanHibiki on
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    They have to mass troops. We can just use airplanes to bomb them to hell then.

    Couscous on
  • Metal Gear Solid 2 DemoMetal Gear Solid 2 Demo Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Fizban140 wrote: »
    That is for active only, if NK was to go to war they could field more troops than any other country. Maybe not all equiped or in shape or anything but it would be around 10 million people.

    that doesn't really mean a whole lot in modern warfare

    10 million people aren't going to walk across the water and take out a carrier fleet

    DanHibiki wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    It really doesn't matter. Nobody is going to be getting into a melee with them.

    We have explosives for this.

    So, you propose complete genocide?


    If the situation being proposed is "they will have 10 million soldiers combating us" I don't think that's genocide so much as, uh, war

    It's pretty unrealistic however as it's not going to be 10 million armed, loyal, and healthy soldiers. The vast majority will be malnourished and would probably surrender if given the chance and a hot meal

    Metal Gear Solid 2 Demo on
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  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    I don't think he so much proposes genocide as is basically suggesting that it doesn't matter how many troops the NK army can field, they will all be fucking annihilated by air power (either SK or US airpower), because they are just 10 million dudes, and here's me with my fleet of fighter-bombers. But that's not really the point. If SK and NK engaged in war, then SK would most probably win, the question is what would it cost them? I'm certainly thinking a lot. The USA would almost definately weigh in and I doubt China would consider going to war alongside NK when they are fight the Americans. They aren't going to risk world war three in order to save their pain in the ass sort-of ally.

    The biggest problem is the aftermath. If NK is left to it's own devices the place will tear itself apart within weeks, and the outcome will be horrific. If SK takes over it will nigh-on bankrupt them and set them back substantially when it comes to economics development. China probably won't want to roll in either, but even if they did nobody else wants that.

    War is bad. But worse is what would come afterwards.

    Solar on
  • IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited November 2010
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    It really doesn't matter. Nobody is going to be getting into a melee with them.

    We have explosives for this.

    So, you propose complete genocide?

    I propose we destroy all life on this planet, CLEARLY.

    Incenjucar on
  • DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Couscous wrote: »
    They have to mass troops. We can just use airplanes to bomb them to hell then.
    Why? They can just hang out at villages and wait for the American invasion.

    Besides to North Korea everyone in the country is a potential soldier.

    Soldiers hanging out in neat formations waiting to get bombed never happens.

    DanHibiki on
  • AldoAldo Hippo Hooray Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    It really doesn't matter. Nobody is going to be getting into a melee with them.

    We have explosives for this.

    So, you propose complete genocide?

    I'm very curious about your thought progress between reading Incenjucar's post and deciding that he is telling everyone to murder all North Koreans. I tried replying to your question in a meaningful way, but I absolutely cannot see how you came to asking him if he was proposing complete genocide

    Aldo on
  • Metal Gear Solid 2 DemoMetal Gear Solid 2 Demo Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    They have to mass troops. We can just use airplanes to bomb them to hell then.
    Why? They can just hang out at villages and wait for the American invasion.

    Besides to North Korea everyone in the country is a potential soldier.

    Soldiers hanging out in neat formations waiting to get bombed never happens.

    tell that to iraq

    Metal Gear Solid 2 Demo on
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    1385396-1.png
    Orikae! |RS| : why is everyone yelling 'enders is dead go'
    When I say pop it that means pop it
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  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Why? They can just hang out at villages and wait for the American invasion.
    At which point it is just dealing with an insurgency.

    Couscous on
  • PataPata Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Solar wrote: »
    War is bad. But worse is what would come afterwards.

    North Korea has really become a lose-lose situation no matter what happens. It's sad, really.

    Pata on
    SRWWSig.pngEpisode 5: Mecha-World, Mecha-nisim, Mecha-beasts
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    They have to mass troops. We can just use airplanes to bomb them to hell then.
    Why? They can just hang out at villages and wait for the American invasion.

    Besides to North Korea everyone in the country is a potential soldier.

    Soldiers hanging out in neat formations waiting to get bombed never happens.

    tell that to iraq
    You need to be able to coordinate large groups of soldiers in order to take out the enemy's army unless you want the enemy to be able to do almost anything in your country. Good intelligence will be able to tell where these large forces are.

    Couscous on
  • dlinfinitidlinfiniti Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    IF we can get China and Russia on board 100% with an embargo, we wouldn't even have to go put troops in. Just wait it out a month or two, easiest war of attrition ever. No non NK lives lost, done deal.

    dlinfiniti on
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  • jeddy leejeddy lee Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    The thing to remember with just bombing these people is that the armed guards and officers and military personnel are often people FORCED into doing that at risk of imprisonment. Bombing their army would be like bombing the victims of their regime. It's not a very good situation for us to be in. How do you topple the regime without creating a power vacuum and with minimum casualty to the largest tool of the regime itself. This is an entirely different scenario then we have encountered before.

    jeddy lee on
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  • LilnoobsLilnoobs Alpha Queue Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    I came to this thread for discussion and information.

    What I've read so far are people treating war like a game.

    Lilnoobs on
  • OSUJumpManOSUJumpMan Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    perhaps you're confused by the discussion involving an ACTUAL videogame. most people discussing the actual events have taken it pretty seriously.

    OSUJumpMan on
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  • JintorJintor Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Hoz wrote: »
    Scooter wrote: »

    It's either that or whoever came up with this concept is full-on retarded.

    It's really no different from the plethora of games that had those dirty commies as our enemies

    Jintor on
  • TL DRTL DR Not at all confident in his reflexive opinions of thingsRegistered User regular
    edited November 2010
    I wonder how effective a shooped video of one of the Kims would be, during an American offensive, urging loyal citizens to throw down their arms and surrender to secure mercy for Dear Leader.

    Do peasants in Bad Korea know about photoshop?

    TL DR on
  • dlinfinitidlinfiniti Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    they can tell from the pixels
    and from having seen quite a few shops in their time

    dlinfiniti on
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  • [Tycho?][Tycho?] As elusive as doubt Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Lilnoobs wrote: »
    I came to this thread for discussion and information.

    What I've read so far are people treating war like a game.

    War is a game. A serious one, but a game nonetheless.

    [Tycho?] on
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  • CommunistCowCommunistCow Abstract Metal ThingyRegistered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Lilnoobs wrote: »
    I came to this thread for discussion and information.

    What I've read so far are people treating war like a game.

    Any information to be found is in the first page or so. There isn't any new information because nothing new has really happened. So the thread has turned into arm chair analysis of military situations and some comparisons to iraq. Since they haven't all out started attacking each other I would say thats a good sign.

    CommunistCow on
    No, I am not really communist. Yes, it is weird that I use this name.
  • jungleroomxjungleroomx It's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovels Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Fizban140 wrote: »
    That is for active only, if NK was to go to war they could field more troops than any other country. Maybe not all equiped or in shape or anything but it would be around 10 million people.

    Unfortunately, as has been pointed out, 10 million people means nothing.

    Their highly trained professional soldiers are terrifying, and in a one-on-one with any normal servicemember (aside from the Israelis or Turks) they'd slaughter all-comers.

    But those thousands of highly trained commandos are going to spending their time controlling, training, and disciplining millions of unkempt, out-of-shape, untrained, conscripted slaves while fighting the most technologically advanced military in the world...

    This isn't like Vietnam. The North Koreans wouldn't be fighting for a cause they all believe in with deep, raging ferocity.

    jungleroomx on
  • Cedar BrownCedar Brown Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Fizban140 wrote: »
    That is for active only, if NK was to go to war they could field more troops than any other country. Maybe not all equiped or in shape or anything but it would be around 10 million people.

    Unfortunately, as has been pointed out, 10 million people means nothing.

    Their highly trained professional soldiers are terrifying, and in a one-on-one with any normal servicemember (aside from the Israelis or Turks) they'd slaughter all-comers.

    America's highly trained professionals soldiers are terrifying too.

    Cedar Brown on
  • RchanenRchanen Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Fizban140 wrote: »
    That is for active only, if NK was to go to war they could field more troops than any other country. Maybe not all equiped or in shape or anything but it would be around 10 million people.

    Unfortunately, as has been pointed out, 10 million people means nothing.

    Their highly trained professional soldiers are terrifying, and in a one-on-one with any normal servicemember (aside from the Israelis or Turks) they'd slaughter all-comers.

    But those thousands of highly trained commandos are going to spending their time controlling, training, and disciplining millions of unkempt, out-of-shape, untrained, conscripted slaves while fighting the most technologically advanced military in the world...

    This isn't like Vietnam. The North Koreans wouldn't be fighting for a cause they all believe in with deep, raging ferocity.

    The cause in that case being "Would you fuckers get the fuck out of my country. We are sick of getting invaded every five damn minutes"

    I do not know how dedicated the Vietnamese were to communism. I am very damn sure they were dedicated to getting people the fuck out of their country. (The French, Americans, the Chinese. Before the French the Japanese. Before the Japanese, the French, AGAIN).

    Edit:

    The Vietnamese had been fighting foreigners for damn on 30-40 years when we showed up.

    Rchanen on
  • L|amaL|ama Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    I still find it awful that the Vietnam war is considered even close to a legitimate cause by anyone in the US. Ho Chi Minh was promised independence by the US when fighting the Japanese in WW2, and even used stuff from the US declaration of independence in his to go "eh guys? eh guys? We cool."

    But that's not Korea. Is my assessment of the situation as 'all the shooty and dangerous stuff has stopped, now it's the same old attempts at diplomatic pressure on NK' close?

    L|ama on
  • RchanenRchanen Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    L|ama wrote: »
    I still find it awful that the Vietnam war is considered even close to a legitimate cause by anyone in the US. Ho Chi Minh was promised independence by the US when fighting the Japanese in WW2, and even used stuff from the US declaration of independence in his to go "eh guys? eh guys? We cool."

    But that's not Korea. Is my assessment of the situation as 'all the shooty and dangerous stuff has stopped, now it's the same old attempts at diplomatic pressure on NK' close?

    Oh yeah, I gotta agree. It was a total dick move by the United States of America. Speaking as an American, we were totally dicks.

    Why the fuck were we even backing the French?

    Rchanen on
  • MKRMKR Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Rchanen wrote: »
    L|ama wrote: »
    I still find it awful that the Vietnam war is considered even close to a legitimate cause by anyone in the US. Ho Chi Minh was promised independence by the US when fighting the Japanese in WW2, and even used stuff from the US declaration of independence in his to go "eh guys? eh guys? We cool."

    But that's not Korea. Is my assessment of the situation as 'all the shooty and dangerous stuff has stopped, now it's the same old attempts at diplomatic pressure on NK' close?

    Oh yeah, I gotta agree. It was a total dick move by the United States of America. Speaking as an American, we were totally dicks.

    Why the fuck were we even backing the French?

    They kind of funded our war of independence at the cost of their own social stability.

    History is a fun web of mistakes, triumphs, alliances, and enemies.

    MKR on
  • RchanenRchanen Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    MKR wrote: »
    Rchanen wrote: »
    L|ama wrote: »
    I still find it awful that the Vietnam war is considered even close to a legitimate cause by anyone in the US. Ho Chi Minh was promised independence by the US when fighting the Japanese in WW2, and even used stuff from the US declaration of independence in his to go "eh guys? eh guys? We cool."

    But that's not Korea. Is my assessment of the situation as 'all the shooty and dangerous stuff has stopped, now it's the same old attempts at diplomatic pressure on NK' close?

    Oh yeah, I gotta agree. It was a total dick move by the United States of America. Speaking as an American, we were totally dicks.

    Why the fuck were we even backing the French?

    They kind of funded our war of independence at the cost of their own social stability.

    History is a fun web of mistakes, triumphs, alliances, and enemies.

    The above line is entirely true.

    From what I rememeber of what history I was taught, we were backing the French because they claimed Ho Chi was a communist. Which he was, but not necessarily the aligned with Russia kind. More of a nationalist than a communist. And we shit outselves as the thought of communism.

    Seriously, I want to make a new foreign policy rule:

    "If you cannot make a decent oven/microwave, cooking device, what have you, you are NOT a threat to the United States of America and we do not have to pull out all the stops to destroy you. Including sacrificing our ethics."

    Rchanen on
  • Delta AssaultDelta Assault Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    The Homefront PR staff just got huge Christmas bonuses.

    Delta Assault on
  • KlashKlash Lost... ... in the rainRegistered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Because I find this appropriate, given the two conversations of this thread.

    Red Dawn meets Asia. Ultimate showdown of the delusional mind. Bring it on, THQ.

    Seems the actual non-video game version of the North Korean problem is blowing over. I kind of figured if there was going to be a response on either side of the line, it'd have been within the day*. I haven't heard anything about the events since the events happened. Has there been anything new?

    *Granted that SK fired a bit back, but NK hasn't done anything since, right?

    Klash on
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  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Fizban140 wrote: »
    That is for active only, if NK was to go to war they could field more troops than any other country. Maybe not all equiped or in shape or anything but it would be around 10 million people.

    Unfortunately, as has been pointed out, 10 million people means nothing.

    Their highly trained professional soldiers are terrifying, and in a one-on-one with any normal servicemember (aside from the Israelis or Turks) they'd slaughter all-comers.

    America's highly trained professionals soldiers are terrifying too.

    Yea... I'm pretty sure the US has more special operations soldiers than North Korea as well, as we spend a pretty ridiculous amount of money on SOCOM

    Sadly the US probably has the most battle hardened active military on the planet now as well. I really wish that wasn't the case.

    override367 on
  • jungleroomxjungleroomx It's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovels Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Fizban140 wrote: »
    That is for active only, if NK was to go to war they could field more troops than any other country. Maybe not all equiped or in shape or anything but it would be around 10 million people.

    Unfortunately, as has been pointed out, 10 million people means nothing.

    Their highly trained professional soldiers are terrifying, and in a one-on-one with any normal servicemember (aside from the Israelis or Turks) they'd slaughter all-comers.

    America's highly trained professionals soldiers are terrifying too.

    Yea... I'm pretty sure the US has more special operations soldiers than North Korea as well, as we spend a pretty ridiculous amount of money on SOCOM

    Sadly the US probably has the most battle hardened active military on the planet now as well. I really wish that wasn't the case.

    Depends. I'd say we're the most war weary as a result.

    Seriously. Active conflict causes the military to drop standards for enlistment/retaining said enlistment. We were at our symmetrical-warfare-best during the 1980's, after it had been drug down quite a bit quality wise by Vietnam and conscripted soldiers, who were not there by choice or even last resort, but forced against their will.

    Israel's military, in my opinion, is probably the most terrifying. If not from actual combat, but from the idea that they are landlocked by people who probably wish to kill them. I imagine their training is much more serious than our death by powerpoint, and in the harder parts of the military they've been known to kill each other... as in, not an accident.

    In that situation, plus the fact they aren't a third world country with crappy MIG jets in their air force (They have the F35... and while its no F22, it's an extremely effective war implement), their special forces are damn near second to none, and their pilots are arguably the most skilled in the entire world.

    What sets the US apart from everyone is our Navy.

    Our Navy is freaking incredible. Seriously. It is something to fear.

    jungleroomx on
  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Death by powerpoint isn't really an accurate assessment of US military training unless you're talking the air force

    override367 on
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Rchanen wrote: »
    MKR wrote: »
    Rchanen wrote: »
    L|ama wrote: »
    I still find it awful that the Vietnam war is considered even close to a legitimate cause by anyone in the US. Ho Chi Minh was promised independence by the US when fighting the Japanese in WW2, and even used stuff from the US declaration of independence in his to go "eh guys? eh guys? We cool."

    But that's not Korea. Is my assessment of the situation as 'all the shooty and dangerous stuff has stopped, now it's the same old attempts at diplomatic pressure on NK' close?

    Oh yeah, I gotta agree. It was a total dick move by the United States of America. Speaking as an American, we were totally dicks.

    Why the fuck were we even backing the French?

    They kind of funded our war of independence at the cost of their own social stability.

    History is a fun web of mistakes, triumphs, alliances, and enemies.

    The above line is entirely true.

    From what I rememeber of what history I was taught, we were backing the French because they claimed Ho Chi was a communist. Which he was, but not necessarily the aligned with Russia kind. More of a nationalist than a communist. And we shit outselves as the thought of communism.

    While it's certainly true that Ho Chi Minh was a nationalist of the highest order, it should probably be clear by now, in our post-Cold War world--the two are not mutually exclusive. You can be a communist and a nationalist just as easily as you can be a capitalist and a nationalist. Even when they were supposed to be, such as in the pursuit of Soviet internationalism, they still weren't. Hundreds of millions of taken leftist, and on occasion, Marxist leanings in the pursuit of nationalism (which even we will acknowledge is good, unless we don't like your nation) because those interpretations of the role of government sometimes address what revolutionaries seek, and, surprise, leftist philosophies do talk a lot about revolutions--it's not just a brand labeling thing, like "Think Different" or something.

    If we didn't live in a world that, for a century, was almost entirely colonized by a handful of powerful nations which, used that power in part to give rise to facilitate the economies necessary to transition into modern capitalism, it might not be an issue. But we live that world.

    And frankly, "I'd like the assistance of the Soviet Union," is, when you get right down to it, a lousy reason to literally bomb an entire country back into the stone age. It's more than enough of one, practically, for Cold Warriors like Kissinger or MacNamara, but from a "non-blowing the shit out of people casually" viewpoint, it's a pretty horrible one. Ho Chi Minh considered the Soviet Union a political ally pretty much until his death. And why not? He recovered from Tuberculosis in the USSR, and it was one of the few places people didn't try and kill him. His sympathy didn't compromise his nationalist motives. You know who else was really close allies with the Soviet Union?

    India. The big one we cheerily label the world's largest democracy. They're still closer to Russia than they are to us (contrary to popular opinion, India is wary of close allies of Pakistan, and the United States is not magically exempt from this rule). It's the reason why Russia sells/gives them military hardware the way we sell/give it to Israel or Taiwan.

    Why didn't he blow the shit out of them?

    Probably because we realized bombing the shit out of people didn't always get us what we wanted, thankfully. Honestly, Vietnam's political leadership deciding that it was in there interests to build better ties with the giant military powers in the same continent is actually a worse reason to bomb them to hell than then "Well, have a long history of partnership with the French, they were there in our greatest time of need, when our nation was in the cradle, and we should consider assisting them against their enemies, as they did with ours."

    And really, as far as Vietnam is concerned, I think there was no pleasing the US. Ho Chi Minh asks Woodrow Wilson to respect the Vietnamese pursuit of national self-determination? "Take a hike, small yellow person." Relations go south with the Chinese? "Hey, you know those evil Red Chinese? They're not that bad! Let's reconcile!"

    [/rant]

    More on topic, the North's justification for this latest artillery-based dick waving is, as typical, way out of proportion to any likely perceived insult and not justified.

    Synthesis on
  • Waffles or whateverWaffles or whatever Previously known as, I shit you not, "Waffen" Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Israel's military, in my opinion, is probably the most terrifying. If not from actual combat, but from the idea that they are landlocked by people who probably wish to kill them. I imagine their training is much more serious than our death by powerpoint, and in the harder parts of the military they've been known to kill each other... as in, not an accident.

    I can't recall ever talking to a Combat Arms Army Soldier that sits in a classroom for "Death by power point" in regarding how to kill someone on a battlefield.
    In that situation, plus the fact they aren't a third world country with crappy MIG jets in their air force (They have the F35... and while its no F22, it's an extremely effective war implement), their special forces are damn near second to none, and their pilots are arguably the most skilled in the entire world.

    Since when do they have a plane that hasn't even been mass produced yet?

    Waffles or whatever on
  • AtomikaAtomika Live fast and get fucked or whatever Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Synthesis wrote: »
    More on topic, the North's justification for this latest artillery-based dick waving is, as typical, way out of proportion to any likely perceived insult and not justified.

    Well that's kind of the problem, isn't it? What's the proper way to respond to a crazy-ass regime who kills, like, four people a year?

    All-out war?


    Nobody wants a horrific conflict, and North Korea knows that and uses that as a buffer and a means for being able to saber-rattle and show their "might." So, what? Do we kill 'em all for that?

    Atomika on
  • Pi-r8Pi-r8 Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Synthesis wrote: »
    More on topic, the North's justification for this latest artillery-based dick waving is, as typical, way out of proportion to any likely perceived insult and not justified.

    Well that's kind of the problem, isn't it? What's the proper way to respond to a crazy-ass regime who kills, like, four people a year?

    All-out war?


    Nobody wants a horrific conflict, and North Korea knows that and uses that as a buffer and a means for being able to saber-rattle and show their "might." So, what? Do we kill 'em all for that?

    The proper way, in my opinion, is go extreme in one direction or another. You can ramp up the belligerence, and give a credible threat that you might really invade. Cut off all of foreign aid, and get China to play ball on that too. Make the people really afraid to support their leader, because they're afraid of being invaded.

    Or, alternatively, go the other direction and play nice. Give them a lot of foreign aid, everything they need. Give them the territory they disputed. Move us forces out of south korea. Make the people there see that the US is not a threat to them, and that they don't need their leader to protect them.

    The way things are now, we're giving the north Korean leadership exactly what they want- a cold war, full of fear for the people but with no actual risk.

    Pi-r8 on
  • Fizban140Fizban140 Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited November 2010
    Death by powerpoint isn't really an accurate assessment of US military training unless you're talking the air force
    USAF special forces have their own training, that isn't powerpoint. Oh and the pilots actually do this thing called flying.

    Fizban140 on
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