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[WoW] [Shaman], Enhancing your PVPs like crazy

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Posts

  • AkiraAkira Registered User
    edited November 2010
    I'm glad you linked your spec because I finally read the part about Frozen Power's bonus damage only working on Frostbrand'd targets D:

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  • troublebrewingtroublebrewing Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    naengwen wrote: »
    Dac wrote: »
    Still liking it.

    But.

    As enhancement.

    I really feel like I don't have the 'fun/optional' points that Blizz touted as something they wanted for everyone.

    Like I'd love Ancestral Swiftness but there's really no room in my spec. I wonder if it gets good enough to take on movement heavy fights over something else.

    Improved Shields... drop it. Like, now. Watch, in astonishment, as the lost damage impacts your damage less than the amount lost while not attacking in fights with any form of movement whatsoever.

    (Not that astonishing.)

    EDIT: Not to mention there's more to consider in a fight than DPS min/max'ing. I suppose if you planned on pugging WotLK 5-mans forever, and your tank didn't just chain-pull packs, it'd be favorable, but from what I've seen you'll be loving Ancestral Swiftness in WotLK raids, Cata 5-mans, Cata raids, and... well, just about anything, really. Indoor Ghost Wolf is the best thing they gave us this time around, even after the nerf.

    imp fire nova is better than imp shields?

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  • ArkadyArkady Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    naengwen wrote: »
    Dac wrote: »
    Still liking it.

    But.

    As enhancement.

    I really feel like I don't have the 'fun/optional' points that Blizz touted as something they wanted for everyone.

    Like I'd love Ancestral Swiftness but there's really no room in my spec. I wonder if it gets good enough to take on movement heavy fights over something else.

    Improved Shields... drop it. Like, now. Watch, in astonishment, as the lost damage impacts your damage less than the amount lost while not attacking in fights with any form of movement whatsoever.

    (Not that astonishing.)

    EDIT: Not to mention there's more to consider in a fight than DPS min/max'ing. I suppose if you planned on pugging WotLK 5-mans forever, and your tank didn't just chain-pull packs, it'd be favorable, but from what I've seen you'll be loving Ancestral Swiftness in WotLK raids, Cata 5-mans, Cata raids, and... well, just about anything, really. Indoor Ghost Wolf is the best thing they gave us this time around, even after the nerf.

    imp fire nova is better than imp shields?

    In general I would say yes. The extra AE helps a lot on trash (PADDIN DEM NUMBAHS), the extra shield damage helps only barely at all on single target.

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  • troublebrewingtroublebrewing Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    I just thought we'd generally be using searing totem anyway which doesn't allow you to use fire nova at all.

    I guess for leveling shields would be better since you're getting hit a lot.

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  • naengwennaengwen Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Fair enough, by that point it's preference. Imp Fire Nova works great for AoE though, mastering its use versus Searing Totem comes in handy for plenty of fights, but it's also another button to press.

    Not that I mind, but it can be easily avoided for fairly similar damage. Possibly less, I haven't checked the damage comparisons on AoE packs at 85.

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  • Venkman90Venkman90 Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    So, started a Dorf Shaman.

    Is Enhance best for leveling? (I know Ele is viable now) and which spec is best for solo'ing old world dungeons and raids? I have seen guys on youtube using both but Enhance seemed to be the prefered spec.

  • ScosglenScosglen Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Probably a matter of preference.

    Personally, I would say that elemental is likely more convenient since it's more suited to engaging multiple targets and fighting at range than enh, which might make it better for the run and gun playstyle of leveling content.

  • MugsleyMugsley Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Ele is superior. You 3-shot just about everything and get hit a whole lot less. I don't even use FroShock. If you have at least one of the heirloom trinkets, you don't need to keep water shield up and your downtime is pretty much nil.


    I've leveled two Hunters, a Rogue, and a DK; and the Shaman is second only to the Hunters in leveling speed and efficiency. And Ghost Wolf helps a TON at low levels.

  • DerrickDerrick Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Scosglen wrote: »
    Probably a matter of preference.

    Personally, I would say that elemental is likely more convenient since it's more suited to engaging multiple targets and fighting at range than enh, which might make it better for the run and gun playstyle of leveling content.

    I'm leveling Enhancement.

    It's amazingly effective. Mana isn't really an issue with a normal rotation. You run in, drop totems and kill things. Lightning Shield does double duty and things drop QUICK. I've run in and aggroed 7 or 8 dudes in the old world at yellow level to me and killed them all without too much trouble.

    Don't underestimate Shamanistic Fury and instant ghostwolf+earthbind. The only way I ever really have to be concerned about mana is for using the quick and big heal (which is what I exclusively use since I always have the mana), and when I'm using chain lightning for groups in instances.

    Enhancement kills things fast with ZERO downtime and is kinda tough as nails to boot.

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  • Venkman90Venkman90 Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    When I tried back in TBC hance was the only way to lvl, Ele was better at big pulls though.

    Sounds like either is viable, liking the look of Enhance though now you get DW at 10 (I think you do?) with what Derrick said.

  • troublebrewingtroublebrewing Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    I've tried both and I prefer enh for leveling. I feel like a machine plowing through mobs.

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  • AkiraAkira Registered User
    edited November 2010
    The discussion about Improved Shields and Fire Nova Totems got me thinking. After you take all the critical Enhance talents, you end up with 4 spare points to use based on person preference between these:

    0/3 Improved Shields - While a small boost, it's the only talent here that directly increases your single target damage, so still a good choice for hardcore min/max single target raid boss DPS

    0/2 Ancestral Swifness (Improved Ghost Wolf) - Now that it works indoors, this is a really strong talent for quickly moving between targets and will indirectly increase your raid damage (and super handy for leveling of course)

    0/2 Totemic Reach - Useful for spread out fights or to make sure Hunters are getting your totem buffs, but not really that useful overall

    0/3 Toughness - Mostly for PvP, could be interesting on fights with a lot of slows but generally not that good for PvE

    0/2 Frozen Power - Another PvP talent, though it could be really useful if we see another fight with kitting

    0/2 Improved Fire Nova Totem - Won't help with your single-target damage but still pretty solid for any AoE encounter/trash (though if Cata dungeons are as CC-focused as people say it may not be that useful)

    0/2 Earthen Power - PvP talent but again could be useful on specific raid encounters


    Personally I went with Ancestral Swiftness and 2 points of Improved Shields, but I'm interested in hearing other opinions. It seems like Ancestral Swiftness, Improved Fire Nova Totems, Totemic Reach and Improved Shields are the main contenders for PvE.

    akira.gif
  • DerrickDerrick Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Akira wrote: »
    The discussion about Improved Shields and Fire Nova Totems got me thinking. After you take all the critical Enhance talents, you end up with 4 spare points to use based on person preference between these:

    0/3 Improved Shields - While a small boost, it's the only talent here that directly increases your single target damage, so still a good choice for hardcore min/max single target raid boss DPS

    0/2 Ancestral Swifness (Improved Ghost Wolf) - Now that it works indoors, this is a really strong talent for quickly moving between targets and will indirectly increase your raid damage (and super handy for leveling of course)

    0/2 Totemic Reach - Useful for spread out fights or to make sure Hunters are getting your totem buffs, but not really that useful overall

    0/3 Toughness - Mostly for PvP, could be interesting on fights with a lot of slows but generally not that good for PvE

    0/2 Frozen Power - Another PvP talent, though it could be really useful if we see another fight with kitting

    0/2 Improved Fire Nova Totem - Won't help with your single-target damage but still pretty solid for any AoE encounter/trash (though if Cata dungeons are as CC-focused as people say it may not be that useful)

    0/2 Earthen Power - PvP talent but again could be useful on specific raid encounters


    Personally I went with Ancestral Swiftness and 2 points of Improved Shields, but I'm interested in hearing other opinions. It seems like Ancestral Swiftness, Improved Fire Nova Totems, Totemic Reach and Improved Shields are the main contenders for PvE.

    I'm still leveling, so I went with both totem talents (though that kinda kills me inside a little). I figured there are enough aoe zerg pulls that I might as well get the extra AoE.

    Honestly though, it's kind of a wash because things die so fast the second AoE blast is largely wasted.

    I'll have to see how much faster the AoE pulls drop when I get 60+, as well as the overall viability of AoE zerging instances after the tank nerfs. I haven't had a chance to play in a while due to traveling.

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  • Seattle ThreadSeattle Thread The fuck am I looking atRegistered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Ancestral Swiftness is a mandatory talent. You're forgetting about the normal movement speed buff, which frees up a boot enchant for more agility or mastery.

    Imp Shields isn't terrible, either, since Static Shock puts LS into play even when not being attacked. It's a small DPS boost, but a boost nonetheless.


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  • naengwennaengwen Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Every time someone takes Totemic Reach, an angel logs on the WoW forums and rants about why totems should be auras.

    But really, drop it. Once you have a feel for positioning, you won't ever need it.

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  • troublebrewingtroublebrewing Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Ancestral Swiftness is so good, but I am a sucker for all speed increase talents.

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  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Whoever designed the skill/talent progression for enhancement should be beaten.

    You get to level 40, and it's like "You like the last 10 levels, huh? You like your windfury, your magma totem, your mail armor? Yeah, you like that, huh? Well, your next major class skill comes in outland, enjoy the next 20 levels, fucker." Then deathwing comes and takes a dump on your face.

  • 815165815165 Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Whoever designed the skill/talent progression for enhancement should be beaten.

    You get to level 40, and it's like "You like the last 10 levels, huh? You like your windfury, your magma totem, your mail armor? Yeah, you like that, huh? Well, your next major class skill comes in outland, enjoy the next 20 levels, fucker." Then deathwing comes and takes a dump on your face.
    Meh, it's miles better than it used to be. No water shield till 62, no WF till 30, no DW or SS till 40/41.

  • JAEFJAEF Unstoppably Bald Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    It's not as bumfuckingly retarded as it used to be is not an excuse worth considering.

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  • naengwennaengwen Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    JAEF wrote: »
    It's not as bumfuckingly retarded as it used to be is not an excuse worth considering.

    But isn't that what Cataclysm is all about? :P

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  • JAEFJAEF Unstoppably Bald Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    naengwen wrote: »
    JAEF wrote: »
    It's not as bumfuckingly retarded as it used to be is not an excuse worth considering.

    But isn't that what Cataclysm is all about? :P
    Cataclysm's about overhauling for a complete fix to make it great, not just minimizing the shit you have to slog through.

    My Shaman's been 80 since TBC so I can't speak to leveling one.

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  • CarnarvonCarnarvon Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Leveling a dorf shammy as enhancement right now, and you guy's can't complain skill progression; warlocks don't Soul Fire or Incinerate until outlands. Do you know how fucking insane that is? It'd be like getting not getting Primal Strike until 50, and Storm Strike until 70.

  • JAEFJAEF Unstoppably Bald Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Sorry what I was busy dotting everything and walking away.

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  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Carnarvon wrote: »
    Leveling a dorf shammy as enhancement right now, and you guy's can't complain skill progression; warlocks don't Soul Fire or Incinerate until outlands. Do you know how fucking insane that is? It'd be like getting not getting Primal Strike until 50, and Storm Strike until 70.

    Not having maelstrom weapon is as bad, it opens up 6 or 8 skills to be usable.

    Really, with no MW, the following skills are really post-outlands for enhance shamans, at least to use on any kind of regular basis:

    Lightning
    Chain lightning
    Chain Heal
    Healing Surge

    That's two big parts of both the single target and ae rotation, and basically all of the healing power of the class.

    Not to mention that hex and feral spirit are also post-outlands, which is 90% of the CC of the class.

  • XehalusXehalus Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    They say to hit Earth Shock at 6-7 Fulminations, but at 9 the aura thingy pops up and the button glows.

    /confused

  • naengwennaengwen Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    JAEF wrote: »
    naengwen wrote: »
    JAEF wrote: »
    It's not as bumfuckingly retarded as it used to be is not an excuse worth considering.

    But isn't that what Cataclysm is all about? :P
    Cataclysm's about overhauling for a complete fix to make it great, not just minimizing the shit you have to slog through.

    Well, it started that way, at least. There's some effort, sure, but I've yet to see much in terms of completion.

    Guess that's more for the main chat thread. I can't say I've been impressed, though, specially with shaman.

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  • JAEFJAEF Unstoppably Bald Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Xehalus wrote: »
    They say to hit Earth Shock at 6-7 Fulminations, but at 9 the aura thingy pops up and the button glows.

    /confused
    They who. Never hit it before 8 ever [edit:unless you are forced to move, the mob doesn't need a new flameshock and you have nothing else to cast, then earth shock away]. 9 is ideal.

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  • KainyKainy Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Yeah. I haven't read what the theorycrafters say, but I wait until 9 unless I move, at which point I always dump it if flame shock doesn't need to be applied, which, with t10, it basically never does.

    My favorite thing is slowly working up my flame shock's duration over the course of the fight because of that set bonus. I'm going to miss it :(

    Then again, maybe demon math can prove that ES at 6-7 helps not waste your shock cooldown or somesuch, but that seems like it'd be a very hard thing to model.

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  • MugsleyMugsley Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    For leveling, I'll use it at 6 or 7, but rarely. Then again, it's tough for me to chain pull enough (at least in Fjord) to keep Clearcasting up long enough to get more than a couple of extra LS charges.

  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    sometimes when I need a new flameshock soon anyway I'll fire it off at 6 or 7, just because by the time the flameshock cooldown has finished I'm back up at 6-7 orbs.

    It wouldn't be that hard to model whether you should always wait for 9 or if some other number is ideal; you'd just have to track orb gains to find a sustainable number that meshed with the cooldown and then see how the opportunity cost of earthshocking at (say) seven orbs works out. I suspect you always want to wait for nine though, because ES by itself isn't better at damage than lightning bolt, and you get the same damage from unloading the orbs whether you have 7 or 9 (assuming waiting for nine doesn't wind up causing you to waste orb gains, as in my example above.)

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  • Rikidou HyuugaRikidou Hyuuga Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    So I have been sucked back into this game.

    Are Elemental shaman competitive at the raiding level?

  • MgcwMgcw Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Elemental is one of the top dps specs at 85 at the moment.

  • Rikidou HyuugaRikidou Hyuuga Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Thanks for the swift reply. It's also encouraging to know that the kit has held up well.

    Is there a knowledge base out there on Elemental's performance at that level, like from the beta testing? I'd hate to ask questions about something with readily available answers.

  • JAEFJAEF Unstoppably Bald Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Not yet. Give it a week and yes.

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  • GnomeTankGnomeTank Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    On an Enhancement shaman: Windfury/Windfury, or Windfury/Flametongue? I've done some Googling and searching of forums, and I've seen pretty good arguments for both setups.

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  • JAEFJAEF Unstoppably Bald Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Windfury/Killyourself. I hate the simplification of enhancement's rotation :?

    I believe they're about even currently, not sure about 85.

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  • Seattle ThreadSeattle Thread The fuck am I looking atRegistered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Why would you WF/WF now that Lava Lash is baseline?


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  • GrobianGrobian What's on sale? Pliers!Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    WF/FT. There's no case for WF/WF. There's always discussion about FT/FT instead, but Blizz clearly doesn't want that so they buff/nerf accordingly.

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  • NogginNoggin BUNNY! Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    JAEF wrote: »
    Windfury/Killyourself. I hate the simplification of enhancement's rotation :?

    This, so much. I had a ton of fun with enhancement in BT/Sunwell days, twisting wf/goa. The rotation already felt much easier once I didn't have to do that, now I just don't even enjoy the spec anymore. :(

    Elemental looks a lot more fun though.

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  • GnomeTankGnomeTank Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Well that's nice. I'm actually enjoying Enhancement. Good to know there are still bitter old vets out there in every game.

    Sagroth wrote: »
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