The point of bail is to stop him from absconding justice. He is not a UK citizen, he has access to money and he's a flight risk.
Also, Assange is charged with rape, two counts of sexual molestation and one of unlawful coercion. If convicted of the rape charge, he'd serve up to 6 years in prison. if you don't mind me asking, where does the figure for the fine come from?
Sky news is reporting that he hasn't actually been charged with anything yet. Also that Swedish authorities have lodged an appeal against the bail, he will be incarcerated for at least another 48 hours yet.
My mistake. He hasn't been formally charged yet, but he has been arrested pertaining to a European Arrest Warrant issued for rape, two counts of sexual molestation and one of unlawful coercion.
In addition to my post above, you wouldn't be able to get a European Arrest Warrant if the maximum charge was a fine of $1500.
My mistake. He hasn't been formally charged yet, but he has been arrested pertaining to a European Arrest Warrant issued for rape, two counts of sexual molestation and one of unlawful coercion.
In addition to my post above, you wouldn't be able to get a European Arrest Warrant if the maximum charge was a fine of $1500.
Please correct me if I'm wrong. The news has been crummy at reporting this whole thing. I'm under the impression the EAW is for questioning related to rape, two counts of sexual molestation and one of unlawful coercion.
I have not yet seen confirmation that actual charges have been filed.
My mistake. He hasn't been formally charged yet, but he has been arrested pertaining to a European Arrest Warrant issued for rape, two counts of sexual molestation and one of unlawful coercion.
In addition to my post above, you wouldn't be able to get a European Arrest Warrant if the maximum charge was a fine of $1500.
Please correct me if I'm wrong. The news has been crummy at reporting this whole thing. I'm under the impression the EAW is for questioning related to rape, two counts of sexual molestation and one of unlawful coercion.
I have not yet seen confirmation that actual charges have been filed.
As I understand it, an EAW can only be issued to conduct a criminal prosecution (or to enforce an existing sentence).
SINGAPORE -- Singapore statesman Lee Kuan Yew called Myanmar's junta leaders "stupid" and "dense" in conversations with U.S. diplomats, according to classified documents released this week by WikiLeaks.
The Singapore leader said dealing with Myanmar's military regime was like "talking to dead people," according to a confidential U.S. briefing on a 2007 conversation between Lee and U.S. Ambassador Patricia L. Herbold and Deputy Assistant Secretary of State Thomas Christensen released by WikiLeaks.
The 87-year-old Lee is known for his outspoken and blunt assessments of world affairs, but avoids publicly insulting the leadership of foreign countries. Lee was prime minister from 1959 to 1990 and remains a senior adviser to his son, current Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong.
In the most recently released cable, Lee said China had the most influence over Myanmar's leadership of any foreign country and that Beijing was worried the country would "blow up" and thus threaten Chinese investments there.
"Lee expressed his scorn for the regime's leadership," the leaked cable said. "He said he had given up on them a decade ago, called them 'dense' and 'stupid' and said they had 'mismanaged' the country's great natural resources."
Lee said India was engaging Myanmar's leadership in a bid to minimize China's influence, but that "India lacked China's finer grasp of how Burma worked," according to the cable.
Lee said a group of less 'obtuse' younger military officers could take control and share power with democracy activists, "although probably not with Aung San Suu Kyi, who was anathema to the military."
From a Swedish person's perspective, who has followed the whole thing in Swedish media and blogs:
Assange, representing Wikileaks, came to Sweden to negotiate wether Wikileaks could be hosted in Sweden and more importantly, be protected under Swedish press-freedom laws. While in Sweden Assange met one woman (W) and had sex with her. Several days later he met another woman (AA) and had sex with her as well. He spent a lot of time with AA. For some time she was named as his press secretary, and when Assange applied for a Swedish residency permit her home was listed as his place of residence. In the days following the alleged molestation and rape, AA happily blogged and twittered about how awesome it was to be hanging out with Assange and how she was taking him to a traditional crayfish dinner. Unfortunately the whole thing fell through when Assange was denied residency. The reasons for his being denied residency were kept secret from his and his lawyer.
As a sidebar, reasons for being denied residency in Sweden are kept secret from the public, but must always be disclosed to the applicant and his legal counsel. The only time that the reasons are allowed to be kept secret from the applicant and counsel is if the denial was made on the express request of SÄPO, the Swedish secret/security police.
Shortly after this W and AA both brought charges of rape against Assange. He was interviewed by the prosecutor in Stockholm who found that there was no case, and no charges were brought. Assange then left the country. Then, one or two days later the prosecutor in Gothenburg, Marianne Ny, decides to reopen the case and calls Assange for questioning.
AA has since deleted the blog entries and twitts made after the night that the alleged rape took place.
Is W or AA the one with purported CIA links who posted that thing about getting revenge on a man?
That is AA. Although to be fair the CIA link seems to concist of her being a member of a group supported by a person who was likely at one point working for the CIA.
From the beginning of his detention, Manning has been held in intensive solitary confinement. For 23 out of 24 hours every day -- for seven straight months and counting -- he sits completely alone in his cell. Even inside his cell, his activities are heavily restricted; he's barred even from exercising and is under constant surveillance to enforce those restrictions. For reasons that appear completely punitive, he's being denied many of the most basic attributes of civilized imprisonment, including even a pillow or sheets for his bed (he is not and never has been on suicide watch).
In sum, Manning has been subjected for many months without pause to inhumane, personality-erasing, soul-destroying, insanity-inducing conditions of isolation similar to those perfected at America's Supermax prison in Florence, Colorado: all without so much as having been convicted of anything. And as is true of many prisoners subjected to warped treatment of this sort, the brig's medical personnel now administer regular doses of anti-depressants to Manning to prevent his brain from snapping from the effects of this isolation.
From the beginning of his detention, Manning has been held in intensive solitary confinement. For 23 out of 24 hours every day -- for seven straight months and counting -- he sits completely alone in his cell. Even inside his cell, his activities are heavily restricted; he's barred even from exercising and is under constant surveillance to enforce those restrictions. For reasons that appear completely punitive, he's being denied many of the most basic attributes of civilized imprisonment, including even a pillow or sheets for his bed (he is not and never has been on suicide watch).
In sum, Manning has been subjected for many months without pause to inhumane, personality-erasing, soul-destroying, insanity-inducing conditions of isolation similar to those perfected at America's Supermax prison in Florence, Colorado: all without so much as having been convicted of anything. And as is true of many prisoners subjected to warped treatment of this sort, the brig's medical personnel now administer regular doses of anti-depressants to Manning to prevent his brain from snapping from the effects of this isolation.
Torture is still acceptable in the US it seems.
That's fucking barbaric. I was under the impression that US was a civilized country, but apparently not.
Do we have any idea as to whether his treatment is standard for a serving member of the military? In other words, is he being treated in a consistent manner with other prisoners?
Who was that catholic spy they made the bad cold war movie about? He's locked up under similar conditions IIRC. Seems like the pretty standard DON'T DO THIS OR THIS HAPPENS TO YOU treatment.
Do we have any idea as to whether his treatment is standard for a serving member of the military? In other words, is he being treated in a consistent manner with other prisoners?
From the article:
at the Supermax in Florence, inmates convicted of the most heinous crimes and who pose a threat to prison order and the safety of others are subjected to worse treatment than what Manning experiences. But it's another thing entirely to impose such conditions on individuals, like Manning, who have been convicted of nothing and have never demonstrated an iota of physical threat or disorder.
While it is unique that a person that hasn't even been convicted yet is subjected to such treatment, the treatment itself isn't unique. Of course, it's still a fact that solitary confinement is torture.
Do we have any idea as to whether his treatment is standard for a serving member of the military? In other words, is he being treated in a consistent manner with other prisoners?
Anecdotal. When my now wife joined the Army, she and several other recruits were living in barracks waiting for the basic course to start. They weren't allowed to exercise either. The Army was concerned they'd hurt themselves. Could be a similar story here.
Likewise, solitary may not be unusual for a gay servicemember as a safety precaution. I think the acid test whether it's for torture or safety is whether Manning is allowed books. If yes, they are probably not trying to break him, as books would undermine the whole "insanity from lack of stimulation" thing.
Do we have any idea as to whether his treatment is standard for a serving member of the military? In other words, is he being treated in a consistent manner with other prisoners?
Anecdotal. When my now wife joined the Army, she and several other recruits were living in barracks waiting for the basic course to start. They weren't allowed to exercise either. The Army was concerned they'd hurt themselves. Could be a similar story here.
Likewise, solitary may not be unusual for a gay servicemember as a safety precaution. I think the acid test whether it's for torture or safety is whether Manning is allowed books. If yes, they are probably not trying to break him, as books would undermine the whole "insanity from lack of stimulation" thing.
He's not even allowed a pillow. They have to give him drugs to keep him somewhat sane. I very much doubt they're giving him books.
Do we have any idea as to whether his treatment is standard for a serving member of the military? In other words, is he being treated in a consistent manner with other prisoners?
Anecdotal. When my now wife joined the Army, she and several other recruits were living in barracks waiting for the basic course to start. They weren't allowed to exercise either. The Army was concerned they'd hurt themselves. Could be a similar story here.
Likewise, solitary may not be unusual for a gay servicemember as a safety precaution. I think the acid test whether it's for torture or safety is whether Manning is allowed books. If yes, they are probably not trying to break him, as books would undermine the whole "insanity from lack of stimulation" thing.
For 7 months? This is pretty outrageous, hopefully what the article talks about with this counting as torture for most western nations results in an end to the War on Terror since no one can hand people over to the States (sounds almost like it could be an end to extradition to the US). Is he actually being held under the various Terror clauses or is this because he's a member of the armed forces (i.e. is there something that separates this from a 'normal' crime)?
The fact that they do worse things to other people seems shocking as well - how can a prisoner pose such a threat to prison order that leaving them in solitary without a pillow isn't enough, or are we just talking straightjackets here?
Do we have any idea as to whether his treatment is standard for a serving member of the military? In other words, is he being treated in a consistent manner with other prisoners?
Anecdotal. When my now wife joined the Army, she and several other recruits were living in barracks waiting for the basic course to start. They weren't allowed to exercise either. The Army was concerned they'd hurt themselves. Could be a similar story here.
Likewise, solitary may not be unusual for a gay servicemember as a safety precaution. I think the acid test whether it's for torture or safety is whether Manning is allowed books. If yes, they are probably not trying to break him, as books would undermine the whole "insanity from lack of stimulation" thing.
For 7 months? This is pretty outrageous, hopefully what the article talks about with this counting as torture for most western nations results in an end to the War on Terror since no one can hand people over to the States (sounds almost like it could be an end to extradition to the US). Is he actually being held under the various Terror clauses or is this because he's a member of the armed forces (i.e. is there something that separates this from a 'normal' crime)?
The fact that they do worse things to other people seems shocking as well - how can a prisoner pose such a threat to prison order that leaving them in solitary without a pillow isn't enough, or are we just talking straightjackets here?
He will be charged and tried under the Uniform Military Code of Justice, not the civilian system. Courts Martial and military prison are notoriously harsh in the US.
From the beginning of his detention, Manning has been held in intensive solitary confinement. For 23 out of 24 hours every day -- for seven straight months and counting -- he sits completely alone in his cell. Even inside his cell, his activities are heavily restricted; he's barred even from exercising and is under constant surveillance to enforce those restrictions. For reasons that appear completely punitive, he's being denied many of the most basic attributes of civilized imprisonment, including even a pillow or sheets for his bed (he is not and never has been on suicide watch).
In sum, Manning has been subjected for many months without pause to inhumane, personality-erasing, soul-destroying, insanity-inducing conditions of isolation similar to those perfected at America's Supermax prison in Florence, Colorado: all without so much as having been convicted of anything. And as is true of many prisoners subjected to warped treatment of this sort, the brig's medical personnel now administer regular doses of anti-depressants to Manning to prevent his brain from snapping from the effects of this isolation.
Torture is still acceptable in the US it seems.
Solitary confinement for extended periods of time is very common in the US. And these sort of punitive measures are the norm for political prisoners.
Who was that catholic spy they made the bad cold war movie about? He's locked up under similar conditions IIRC. Seems like the pretty standard DON'T DO THIS OR THIS HAPPENS TO YOU treatment.
The one about Robert Hanssen? Yeah, he's basically in the same "23 out of 24 hours a day confinement". I assume they don't do 24 for logistical reasons or the fact that they don't want him killing himself (as that would end the punishment).
Kind of ironic for someone who never actually met his Soviet handlers.
Um yeah - PFC Manning broke some very clear laws about the handling and dissemination of classified materials. His conditions may be harsh, but he absolutely broke the law.
Um yeah - PFC Manning broke some very clear laws about the handling and dissemination of classified materials. His conditions may be harsh, but he absolutely broke the law.
Agreed, but they haven't actually convicted yet
And even once he's convicted what's the point in disallowing exercise and a pillow?
Do we have language for people who have commit a similar crime to crimes others commit, but who are given a more punitive punishment because of the political repercussions of their acts?
He's not a political prisoner in that he is not a prisoner for no reason other than his political beliefs. He IS a prisoner who is being targeted in a specific way because of his politics.
Also, Liu Xiaobo violated his country's laws, yet we consider him a political prisoner. The act of disseminating documentation of war crimes, in violation of the laws you are placed under, is not a crime in a vacuum.
Also, Liu Xiaobo violated his country's laws, yet we consider him a political prisoner. The act of disseminating documentation of war crimes, in violation of the laws you are placed under, is not a crime in a vacuum.
If convicted it will be for all the information he released that wasn't a war crime. Liu Xiaobo was arrested for peaceably advocating a political ideology. Manning was arrested for releasing classified documents. Completely different.
Manning is probably being treated harshly because the people with power over him view him as a traitor. Of course this is wrong.
And yet his treatment suggests political motives behind it. This is true with a lot of other political prisoners as well. If you want, we don't need to use that term. BUT, lets say you have someone who robs a bank. They are caught, arrested, convicted. Now, lets say that they are part of a political dissident group, and robbed the bank as a means of funding this group. Well, they're still in jail for breaking the law. However their treatment tends to be rather different from "normal" criminals because of their political motivations/actions. And by different, I of course mean that they are treated far worse.
I remember reading about a Special Forces soldier facing court-martial for shooting an unarmed Afghan. It didn't get into any details about his detainment before and during his court-martial, but someone was quoted as saying that he was "treated like a dog" during his detainment. And he ended up with a "not guilty" verdict.
And yet his treatment suggests political motives behind it. This is true with a lot of other political prisoners as well. If you want, we don't need to use that term. BUT, lets say you have someone who robs a bank. They are caught, arrested, convicted. Now, lets say that they are part of a political dissident group, and robbed the bank as a means of funding this group. Well, they're still in jail for breaking the law. However their treatment tends to be rather different from "normal" criminals because of their political motivations/actions. And by different, I of course mean that they are treated far worse.
Yes he is probably being treated badly because he is accused of treason, though I don't think we have shown this is outside the normal treatment for military personnel accused of treason. Lots of people are treated unfairly in prison if their jailers or other prisoners view their crime as more heinous for what ever reason.
Posts
My mistake. He hasn't been formally charged yet, but he has been arrested pertaining to a European Arrest Warrant issued for rape, two counts of sexual molestation and one of unlawful coercion.
In addition to my post above, you wouldn't be able to get a European Arrest Warrant if the maximum charge was a fine of $1500.
Please correct me if I'm wrong. The news has been crummy at reporting this whole thing. I'm under the impression the EAW is for questioning related to rape, two counts of sexual molestation and one of unlawful coercion.
I have not yet seen confirmation that actual charges have been filed.
As I understand it, an EAW can only be issued to conduct a criminal prosecution (or to enforce an existing sentence).
Even a broken clock etc etc
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/15/AR2010121500088.html
Assange, representing Wikileaks, came to Sweden to negotiate wether Wikileaks could be hosted in Sweden and more importantly, be protected under Swedish press-freedom laws. While in Sweden Assange met one woman (W) and had sex with her. Several days later he met another woman (AA) and had sex with her as well. He spent a lot of time with AA. For some time she was named as his press secretary, and when Assange applied for a Swedish residency permit her home was listed as his place of residence. In the days following the alleged molestation and rape, AA happily blogged and twittered about how awesome it was to be hanging out with Assange and how she was taking him to a traditional crayfish dinner. Unfortunately the whole thing fell through when Assange was denied residency. The reasons for his being denied residency were kept secret from his and his lawyer.
As a sidebar, reasons for being denied residency in Sweden are kept secret from the public, but must always be disclosed to the applicant and his legal counsel. The only time that the reasons are allowed to be kept secret from the applicant and counsel is if the denial was made on the express request of SÄPO, the Swedish secret/security police.
Shortly after this W and AA both brought charges of rape against Assange. He was interviewed by the prosecutor in Stockholm who found that there was no case, and no charges were brought. Assange then left the country. Then, one or two days later the prosecutor in Gothenburg, Marianne Ny, decides to reopen the case and calls Assange for questioning.
AA has since deleted the blog entries and twitts made after the night that the alleged rape took place.
He's locked up. Alone. For seven months now.
Torture is still acceptable in the US it seems.
That's fucking barbaric. I was under the impression that US was a civilized country, but apparently not.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
From the article:
While it is unique that a person that hasn't even been convicted yet is subjected to such treatment, the treatment itself isn't unique. Of course, it's still a fact that solitary confinement is torture.
Torture in America: more abundant than you think.
Anecdotal. When my now wife joined the Army, she and several other recruits were living in barracks waiting for the basic course to start. They weren't allowed to exercise either. The Army was concerned they'd hurt themselves. Could be a similar story here.
Likewise, solitary may not be unusual for a gay servicemember as a safety precaution. I think the acid test whether it's for torture or safety is whether Manning is allowed books. If yes, they are probably not trying to break him, as books would undermine the whole "insanity from lack of stimulation" thing.
He's not even allowed a pillow. They have to give him drugs to keep him somewhat sane. I very much doubt they're giving him books.
For 7 months? This is pretty outrageous, hopefully what the article talks about with this counting as torture for most western nations results in an end to the War on Terror since no one can hand people over to the States (sounds almost like it could be an end to extradition to the US). Is he actually being held under the various Terror clauses or is this because he's a member of the armed forces (i.e. is there something that separates this from a 'normal' crime)?
The fact that they do worse things to other people seems shocking as well - how can a prisoner pose such a threat to prison order that leaving them in solitary without a pillow isn't enough, or are we just talking straightjackets here?
He will be charged and tried under the Uniform Military Code of Justice, not the civilian system. Courts Martial and military prison are notoriously harsh in the US.
Solitary confinement for extended periods of time is very common in the US. And these sort of punitive measures are the norm for political prisoners.
The one about Robert Hanssen? Yeah, he's basically in the same "23 out of 24 hours a day confinement". I assume they don't do 24 for logistical reasons or the fact that they don't want him killing himself (as that would end the punishment).
Kind of ironic for someone who never actually met his Soviet handlers.
Riiiiiiight.
Unless that term now includes military personnel who release classified information.
Not to my knowledge. But he's military, different rules.
A gay man accused of treason probably does need some protective measures in prison though.
Um yeah - PFC Manning broke some very clear laws about the handling and dissemination of classified materials. His conditions may be harsh, but he absolutely broke the law.
It usually isn't a very good justification for denying pillows and shit normal prisoners would expect.
This is true enough.
Agreed, but they haven't actually convicted yet
And even once he's convicted what's the point in disallowing exercise and a pillow?
He's not a political prisoner in that he is not a prisoner for no reason other than his political beliefs. He IS a prisoner who is being targeted in a specific way because of his politics.
Also, Liu Xiaobo violated his country's laws, yet we consider him a political prisoner. The act of disseminating documentation of war crimes, in violation of the laws you are placed under, is not a crime in a vacuum.
hahahahaha
If convicted it will be for all the information he released that wasn't a war crime. Liu Xiaobo was arrested for peaceably advocating a political ideology. Manning was arrested for releasing classified documents. Completely different.
Manning is probably being treated harshly because the people with power over him view him as a traitor. Of course this is wrong.
True, he's in jail because he broke the law.
And yet his treatment suggests political motives behind it. This is true with a lot of other political prisoners as well. If you want, we don't need to use that term. BUT, lets say you have someone who robs a bank. They are caught, arrested, convicted. Now, lets say that they are part of a political dissident group, and robbed the bank as a means of funding this group. Well, they're still in jail for breaking the law. However their treatment tends to be rather different from "normal" criminals because of their political motivations/actions. And by different, I of course mean that they are treated far worse.
Yes he is probably being treated badly because he is accused of treason, though I don't think we have shown this is outside the normal treatment for military personnel accused of treason. Lots of people are treated unfairly in prison if their jailers or other prisoners view their crime as more heinous for what ever reason.
But he quite simply is not a political prisoner.
The majority of political prisoners are in prison on trumped up charges of one kind or another.
Usually they at least get a mock trial too.