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[DnD 4E Discussion] Heroes of Shadow. Dhampyr Vryloka Vampire now possible.

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Posts

  • AegofAegof Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Bit surprised that there's so much argument over whether or not Small is cruddy.
    Or any, actually.

    I'm providing ambience.
  • LeztaLezta Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    It's never been a thing in our group. We're not terribly 'gamist' though and if WotC says small characters are too small to hold a big weapon, that seems logical to us and no-one is going to mind.

    We probably wouldn't have noticed if they'd changed that though and I agree it would be better if it had a 'you get a bonus to your defences because you're small' to offset it.

  • AegofAegof Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    A defense bonus would be okayish I guess. I personally have no problem imagining a halfling-sized fullblade that he's just as good with as a half-orc is with a medium-sized one.

    I'm providing ambience.
  • TomeWyrmTomeWyrm Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Aegof wrote: »
    I personally have no problem imagining a halfling-sized fullblade that he's just as good with as a half-orc is with a medium-sized one.

    I would have actually been 100% okay with this, too, especially when it comes to magic weapons.

  • HorseshoeHorseshoe Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Aegof wrote: »
    A defense bonus would be okayish I guess. I personally have no problem imagining a halfling-sized fullblade that he's just as good with as a half-orc is with a medium-sized one.

    Except the half-orc is a half-orc.

    He wins.

    dmsigsmallek3.jpg
  • RiusRius Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    How about a Half-Orc wielding a Halfling who is wearing lots of spiky armor?

  • UltaruneUltarune Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    I haven't read this whole thing, but it isn't strictly true that small races have penalties but no benefits. Creatures can move through the squares of enemies two sizes or more smaller or larger than them. Most people, medium sized, can move through tiny, huge, and gargantuan creatures, and the same can move through their squares. However, small creatures can move through large, huge and gargantuan creatures, and the same can move through their squares. I can't tell you how many times I've seen a halfling move through a large creature blocking a 2 square long corridor and cracked open an entire encounter for us. Its a situational ability, I'll grant you, but a benefit. As for weapons, I come down on the "light blades are the optimal or at least second most optimal weapon for most classes, so rapier it up" and as a min-maxer, that satisfies the weapon penalty argument for me. To each their own though. Cheers.

  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Rius wrote: »
    How about a Half-Orc wielding a Halfling who is wearing lots of spiky armor?
    At the end of chain.

    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. On Hiatus!

    Any gamers in the Danville, PA area? PM me if you're interested in some tabletop gaming.
  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    In case anyone hasn't tried it, a Half-Orc gouge wielding charge based slayer is absolutely fucking disgusting.

  • HachfaceHachface Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    I think it's dumb that goliaths are considered the large of Medium, but gnomes and halflings are not considered the small end of Medium.

    In fact the Small size category is dumb. It breaks the easy progression of Medium-Large-Huge-Gargantuan. It is the size category right below Medium, but not really -- Small creatures occupy the same number of squares as Medium creatures, and most of them have the same reach. It's a weird asymmetry in the system that serves no purpose; if you move one step in any other direction in the size category chart, you see an increase in reach and occupied squares.

    I propose making all Small creatures Medium and abolishing the Small category.

  • branarbranar Registered User
    edited January 2011
    Creatures can move through the squares of enemies two sizes or more smaller or larger than them.

    I had absolutely no idea about that rule. Wow. This changes everything.

  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Aegeri wrote: »
    In case anyone hasn't tried it, a Half-Orc gouge wielding charge based slayer is absolutely fucking disgusting.
    Because of the crazy high damage on a spear weapon?

    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. On Hiatus!

    Any gamers in the Danville, PA area? PM me if you're interested in some tabletop gaming.
  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    Aegeri wrote: »
    In case anyone hasn't tried it, a Half-Orc gouge wielding charge based slayer is absolutely fucking disgusting.
    Because of the crazy high damage on a spear weapon?

    Spear expertise gives you + damage to charging.

    Slayers have a charge stance that gives you an additional +2 speed AND +2 accuracy (so. damn. amazing).

    Gouge is natively 2d6 brutal 1.

    Half-Orcs can adds 1[W]

    Power Strike adds 1[W]

    Charging around means you are super fucking fast and you can lay on all that stuff basically guaranteed (with no risk of losing your main trick). Essentially you can one shot lower level monsters with pretty solid ease and anything bloodied at low levels is terrified of you (if you weren't the one who did it). Stack charging items and feats for ultimate luls.

  • UltaruneUltarune Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    branar wrote: »
    Creatures can move through the squares of enemies two sizes or more smaller or larger than them.

    I had absolutely no idea about that rule. Wow. This changes everything.

    The first time your dm puts you in a 2 square wide corridor with a large creature in front of you blocking your access to his 3 artillery monsters in the room behind the large creature, and your parties' halfling rogue shifts through his large creature and blinding barrages his three artillery guys, he'll learn..... he'll learn.

  • angrylinuxgeekangrylinuxgeek Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    is the Half-Orc thing a trigger or a free action? I can't remember, because, well I never played a Half-Orc. If so, wouldn't that not work with the free action nerf?

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  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    It's quite commonly overlooked and it has come up sometimes. I had a halfling rogue escape certain death by fleeing between not one but TWO otyughs legs with a shift something ability. She was the only character to escape that TPK because of this. Otherwise she was going to be gloriously tentacled to death.

    Edit: It is extra damage and not an attack (it has no target). You can throw it onto power strike as much as you want.

    Edit2: There are now 3 ways of being a vampire btw.

    Dhampyr Heritage bloodline feat.

    Vryloka race in HoS, which is a bit like a tiefling with vampires instead of devils.

    Vampire class in HoS.

    Now all they have to do is have a vampire theme so I can be a:

    Vryloka Dhampyr Heritage Vampire Vampire.

    My life will be complete as 4E will have finally jumped the fucking shark.

  • HorseshoeHorseshoe Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    you mean their racial power?

    the +damage one (furious assault) is a free action that you can elect to trigger from a successful attack

    if you meant racial traits:

    the temp hp one (half orc resilience) automatically triggers on being bloodied

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  • angrylinuxgeekangrylinuxgeek Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Aegeri wrote: »
    It's quite commonly overlooked and it has come up sometimes. I had a halfling rogue escape certain death by fleeing between not one but TWO otyughs legs with a shift something ability. She was the only character to escape that TPK because of this. Otherwise she was going to be gloriously tentacled to death.

    Edit: It is extra damage and not an attack (it has no target). You can throw it onto power strike as much as you want.

    page 90 of the Rules Compendium :?
    If a power's type isn't stated, the power is an attack power if it includes an attack roll or deals damage.

    edit2: this is actually why a Hunter, or whatever the fuck that new Ranger is, can't use his twin strike twice in one turn.

    sQwJu.png
  • streeverstreever Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    Aegeri wrote: »
    In case anyone hasn't tried it, a Half-Orc gouge wielding charge based slayer is absolutely fucking disgusting.
    Because of the crazy high damage on a spear weapon?

    I think Dresden is going to show us how this works :) (very soon, as we have a combat encounter which will probably drop today if you guys talk to the Friar quick!)

  • branarbranar Registered User
    edited January 2011
    Ultarune wrote: »
    branar wrote: »
    Creatures can move through the squares of enemies two sizes or more smaller or larger than them.

    I had absolutely no idea about that rule. Wow. This changes everything.

    The first time your dm puts you in a 2 square wide corridor with a large creature in front of you blocking your access to his 3 artillery monsters in the room behind the large creature, and your parties' halfling rogue shifts through his large creature and blinding barrages his three artillery guys, he'll learn..... he'll learn.


    Except I'm the DM! So I look forward to the inverse, where my Purple Worm steamrolls past the paladin down the corridor, devours the cleric whole, and then proceeds to go apeshit on the rest of the PCs.

  • streeverstreever Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Aegeri wrote: »
    Vryloka Dhampyr Heritage Vampire Vampire.

    My life will be complete as 4E will have finally jumped the fucking shark.


    "What am I? Well, it is simple. I was born descended from a half-vampire. One of my ancestors made a demonic pact, with vampires, which gives me other vampire characteristics. In addition, my mother was bitten by a vampire while she was pregnant with me. Later in life, I was drained of all blood--by a vampire--and then given some of his blood. After this, I decided to approach Vampirism as a common trade, and practiced it in a small shop in the center of town. After a few years of this, I took up my fangs, and set out as a proper vampire adventurer, learning it as my sole focus. I am a vampire vampire vampire half-vampire with vampiric ancestors accursed by vampiric gods. Why do you look confused? I explained this clearly!"

  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    I've actually already asked CS about this (racial powers) and because it has no target line, it doesn't qualify as making an attack (it boosts the damage of the current attack, not count as making an individual attack against an enemy). Then again CS sometimes claims the sky is purple and that there are pink unicorns in my backyard. That's only a half-truth.

  • UltaruneUltarune Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    branar wrote: »
    Ultarune wrote: »
    branar wrote: »
    Creatures can move through the squares of enemies two sizes or more smaller or larger than them.

    I had absolutely no idea about that rule. Wow. This changes everything.

    The first time your dm puts you in a 2 square wide corridor with a large creature in front of you blocking your access to his 3 artillery monsters in the room behind the large creature, and your parties' halfling rogue shifts through his large creature and blinding barrages his three artillery guys, he'll learn..... he'll learn.


    Except I'm the DM! So I look forward to the inverse, where my Purple Worm steamrolls past the paladin down the corridor, devours the cleric whole, and then proceeds to go apeshit on the rest of the PCs.

    tumblr_ldx9p1Nq5x1qfaow2o1_r1_250.gif

  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    branar wrote: »
    Ultarune wrote: »
    branar wrote: »
    Creatures can move through the squares of enemies two sizes or more smaller or larger than them.

    I had absolutely no idea about that rule. Wow. This changes everything.

    The first time your dm puts you in a 2 square wide corridor with a large creature in front of you blocking your access to his 3 artillery monsters in the room behind the large creature, and your parties' halfling rogue shifts through his large creature and blinding barrages his three artillery guys, he'll learn..... he'll learn.


    Except I'm the DM! So I look forward to the inverse, where my Purple Worm steamrolls past the paladin down the corridor, devours the cleric whole, and then proceeds to go apeshit on the rest of the PCs.
    My zombie mekillot did exactly this.

    It was pretty glorious.

    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. On Hiatus!

    Any gamers in the Danville, PA area? PM me if you're interested in some tabletop gaming.
  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    I bet your players will still going "Dawwwwwww look at his wittle undead feet" even as he crushed them.

  • ForarForar #432 Already prepping for Toronto Fan Expo!Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    So it seems that the hiatus on my maptools game continues (DM is behind on updating the new campaign), but it seems we'll be starting a real life game in a week and a half. I'm currently looking at playing the Leader of the group as a Human Artificer. It feels weird not to have a Cleric in the party (yes, I'm that oldschool), but at the same time I like that the healing infusions can be 'recharged' by any party member, leading to a more balanced depletion of them over time, rather than what I've often seen happen, where the Leader/melee striker are running on empty, and the ranged striker/controller/leader are sitting near full.

    Gear selection is a bit limited, but I'm liking the flavour of the class, and the ability to make people's armour/weapons badass.

    sigtwo.png
  • HorseshoeHorseshoe Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Aegeri wrote: »
    I've actually already asked CS about this (racial powers) and because it has no target line, it doesn't qualify as making an attack (it boosts the damage of the current attack, not count as making an individual attack against an enemy). Then again CS sometimes claims the sky is purple and that there are pink unicorns in my backyard. That's only a half-truth.

    I'm confused as to why "Racial" isn't considered a type of power.

    It says "Racial Power" right there where a class power would say "Attack" or "Utility".

    Apparently I'm overlooking why that clarification/errata was needed?

    dmsigsmallek3.jpg
  • dresdenphiledresdenphile Watch out for snakes!Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    streever wrote: »
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    Aegeri wrote: »
    In case anyone hasn't tried it, a Half-Orc gouge wielding charge based slayer is absolutely fucking disgusting.
    Because of the crazy high damage on a spear weapon?

    I think Dresden is going to show us how this works :) (very soon, as we have a combat encounter which will probably drop today if you guys talk to the Friar quick!)

    I didn't take a Gouge, unfortunately, since that comes from the Dark Sun setting, and I didn't know if Eberron had such things. :)

    steam_sig.png
  • streeverstreever Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    everything is in eberron :) it's not too late to retcon if you want one!

    I mean it's basically just a big double-headed axe with a spear point.

  • dresdenphiledresdenphile Watch out for snakes!Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Yeah, but then I'd have to give up Hafted Defense to spec into that....

    I shall give it large amounts of thought, since you're being accommodating. :)

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  • dresdenphiledresdenphile Watch out for snakes!Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Aegeri wrote: »
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    Aegeri wrote: »
    In case anyone hasn't tried it, a Half-Orc gouge wielding charge based slayer is absolutely fucking disgusting.
    Because of the crazy high damage on a spear weapon?

    Spear expertise gives you + damage to charging.

    Slayers have a charge stance that gives you an additional +2 speed AND +2 accuracy (so. damn. amazing).

    Gouge is natively 2d6 brutal 1.

    Half-Orcs can adds 1[W]

    Power Strike adds 1[W]

    Charging around means you are super fucking fast and you can lay on all that stuff basically guaranteed (with no risk of losing your main trick). Essentially you can one shot lower level monsters with pretty solid ease and anything bloodied at low levels is terrified of you (if you weren't the one who did it). Stack charging items and feats for ultimate luls.

    Don't forget Vanguard Weapon for an additional +1d8 on a successful charge or that feat that gives you +1[W] to charge attacks when you have CA. Which you can get, for at least 2 attacks with Single Out at level 2.

    steam_sig.png
  • soxboxsoxbox Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Being small means you can ride things that are size medium.

    Riding things is awesome.

    Therefore, being small is awesome.

    Q. E. D.

  • brain operatorbrain operator Registered User
    edited January 2011
    soxbox wrote: »
    Being small means you can ride things that are size medium.
    In my games, absolutely.

    Officially, in 4E, only Large and larger critters can be mounts. It's a pain in the tuckus. Used to be 95% of the small characters rode around everywhere, while their larger companions had to leave mounts behind most of the time. Not so in 4E. In 4E everyone's hosed equally.

  • PinfeldorfPinfeldorf Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    I remember sitting in on a game of 3.x with some friends, where the Kobold Cleric was riding the Tiefling Rogue who was riding the Centaur Barbarian.

    It was fucking hilarious.

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  • LitejediLitejedi New York CityRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Rius wrote: »
    So play a Scout if you want to be a Small class that has no penalties for also being a weapon user. Or an Executioner, Thief or Rogue. Or a Hexblade, that'd probably work out ok.

    This is the only place I've ever heard anyone complain that Halflings can't use Fullblades. I'll admit it's a valid complaint but I guess I just don't care.

    Halflings also find it extremely difficult to be a sentinel druid, specifically a druid of summer.

    3DS FC: 1907-9450-1017
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  • mugginnsmugginns Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    I'm gonna be a halfling fighter in our dark sun game coming up, should be pretty awesome, gonna hit things really hard with huge weapons and scream ULULULULULULULULU

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  • LitejediLitejedi New York CityRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    streever wrote: »
    an 8 Str Human wielding a Fullblade standing next to an 18 Str Halfling who is limited to a Longsword

    This isn't much of a problem though--the human with 8 strength will have a low to-hit and low damage because of his low strength.

    Except a human avenger would still ruin worlds with an 8 strength.

    My main problem with the small size restrictions has to do with the fact that it is perfectly easy to solve by developers, and was solved in the previous edition of the game, and then reverted in this one. In addition, the mechanics behind the use of certain types or classes of weapons, such as staves and fullblades. Halflings cannot use staves as weapons, so that takes out a considerable amount of attraction from any caster who might have strength or take melee training, and might use a staff. The easiest solution is to simply reduce the damage by a "step" and let weapons retain their handedness for small characters. A small fullblade is a +3, 1d10 high crit weapon, which is a perfectly serviceable weapon for a halfling to use. Having small versions of all weapons is what 3.5 did, and it worked perfectly well.

    Also, house rules don't go very far when you play RPGA-based games.

    3DS FC: 1907-9450-1017
    lj_graaaaahhhhh.gif
  • TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Except that Mr. Human Avenger really gets his "skill" from the divine might with which he empowers his weapon. Which explains why he'll never qualify for any of the related weapon feats.

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  • IncenjucarIncenjucar QA Tester -> Game Producer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    The Scrappy feat does help a bit for some Small builds. At most it's an effective +2 to damage at epic, but it stacks with everything else.

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  • LitejediLitejedi New York CityRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Terrendos wrote: »
    Except that Mr. Human Avenger really gets his "skill" from the divine might with which he empowers his weapon. Which explains why he'll never qualify for any of the related weapon feats.

    Except for crit on 19-20, focus and expertise.

    Maybe you were talking about Heavy Blade Opportunity? Which is pretty good, but completely pointless when compared to Power of Skill or Melee Training (Wisdom) which empowers him to hit perfectly accurately with a weapon he can barely lift (having nothing to do with divine skill).

    3DS FC: 1907-9450-1017
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