This relationship seems to have no humor. Humor does a great job of getting over petty arguments all couples seem to have. I find not caring about silly things the best way to get my wife not to care about them.
RocketSauce on
0
ceresWhen the last moon is cast over the last star of morningAnd the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderatormod
When I was in my first LTR, the ridiculousness didn't come out right away. There were red flags that I ignored, I admit, but him telling me what I thought and how I felt and accusing me of lying to him (yes, believe it or not the same thing happened to me, and a lot of other people, and that's why it's hard for me to be sympathetic towards his girlfriend), didn't happen until a year and a half into the relationship.
Not my first relationship, but for me it was about a month and a half of actually living with the guy. I had never experienced anything like that in a relationship, and I at first pegged it as occasional fighting, which many couples do. It was a couple months before I recognized it for what it was, and I should have dropped the whole thing like it was hot right then. The thing is, after a while conceding to end a fight about whether or not you're mad or whether or not someone said something bad about him because you know that it will end a fight that will otherwise last for days... that does something to you. And pretty soon my concession wasn't enough to put an issue to rest anymore.
I'm not saying that's what's happening here, but I do think that it's something that needs fixing. If telling her that all of this is hurting you isn't enough to make her re-examine this behavior then I would definitely be wary.
ceres on
And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
Don't concede, it is only going to foster an abusive relationship.
You don't need to end the relationship but you guys need to have a talk about this where she can come to an understanding. If she refuses to, well, what kind of future are you honestly expecting with this girl?
Infidel on
0
OnTheLastCastlelet's keep it haimish for the peripateticRegistered Userregular
edited January 2011
Sorry, didn't have time to read page 2, but has anyone suggested you two see a neutral third party?
It could be a really good friend you both trust to be neutral or a therapist. Because it doesn't sound like she ever backs down and you do just to not fight. I'd usually do the same thing, honestly. Fighting over such a minor thing as being really tired after a workout is dumb, so I get where you're coming from.
If she can hear what you've been telling her from a neutral person, it would hopefully help. Best of luck, CO!
edit: And it is so infuriating to me when people try to tell me what I'm thinking or feeling. Really trips my trigger. Serenity now, serenity now, etc.
Important to note, don't concede and say "you're right i feel X" but also just don't get in an argument at all. Just flat out refuse. If she starts up say "I'm sorry but i feel like this is not contructive/healthy" and stop talking maybe really move physically away.
Someone shoud look at my phrasing i'm very bad at not sounding agressive. Not fighting and also not conceding is the way to open up a real conversation i think.
Every time your girlfriend says "You don't actually feel that way, you're lying!" What she is really saying is this:
You can't feel the way you actually feel, you have to feel the way that she wants you to feel. Anything else is lying. As an aside, lying is usually defined as the cardinal sin of relationships. If you're lying to your significant other, most people find that pretty abhorrent. So she's telling you that your feelings aren't true (they're lies) while at the same time making you, over time, feel bad about feeling the way you do naturally.
And after a while, you start to concede the point because you just don't want to fight. Then you might actually start feeling that way, and she might even badger you to the point where she convinces you she's right. She will have replaced your feelings with her own, with the way she wants you to feel.
Does that sound like a relationship you want to be in? If not, you'd better talk to her about it. I wouldn't stay in a relationship like that, I don't think many of us would. Since you're posting here about it, I'd say the problem is probably pretty serious, and you should take it seriously. It's controlling, emotionally abusive behavior and it needs to stop.
oh my god im can't believe i just read this!...everytime she asks you something from now on say "oh i'm sorry that wasn't the question we were looking for" or "would you like to make it a true daily double?"
An ex-girlfriend of mine always assumed I was lying to her from around the two year mark right up until it ended on the fifth. I always used to laugh it off, and that used to make her even more angry, which would make me laugh more. We used to have some truly epic arguments.
Anyway, unfortunately, I was lying to her about a load of things towards the end, but the reason she was so dubious of my actions and intentions in the first place was because she was painfully insecure. Is it possible that your girlfriend is feeling the same?
Important to note, don't concede and say "you're right i feel X" but also just don't get in an argument at all. Just flat out refuse. If she starts up say "I'm sorry but i feel like this is not contructive/healthy" and stop talking maybe really move physically away.
Someone shoud look at my phrasing i'm very bad at not sounding agressive. Not fighting and also not conceding is the way to open up a real conversation i think.
I wonder if the reason any way of phrasing that comes off aggressive is because it completely kills any conversation that could come from the topic at hand?
Maybe a segue or broaching the topic without validating her statement would be better?
Like when she said he must feel faint instead of saying 'I'm fine' saying 'Why, do I look funny? Cuz I feel alright'.
Hopefully that way instead of getting defensive the conversation might continue to the point where the actual issue comes up?
Edit: I mean, it's obviously not gonna suddenly be about why your a constant liar in her mind, but maybe it'd open the lines of communication more if her defenses aren't being triggered so much. Doesn't mean you have to pussyfoot around her constantly, but being a little more mindful of how you say stuff could go a long way. Plus a lot of dedication to not get sucked into the old routine.
"You're right, I'm lying. I truly feel awful. Would you please go and get me a glass of cold water? Honey?"
edit: i know this works because i cop it all the time. my girlfriend is a master of the gently sarcastic concession of argument. this isn't 'trust issues', it's just gentle human neuroticism which we all have to learn to deal with in whatever way we can, especially when we want significant relationships. you'll figure it out.
You can't have a relationship without trust, and it sounds like she doesn't trust you as far as she could throw something that you can't throw very far.
Yeah well its worse now, because when she says shit that isn't true I just say yeah maybe to defuse it, then when its brought up later she was like omg you admitted it! I am like no I just said yeah maybe to smooth things over because I didn't feel like fighting and then she says well then how can i trust you?!?
I don't know how long this has been going on, but be very careful about constantly conceding / bending to defuse arguments or just so that things will be "ok". They likely will not, because a relationship should be about give and take, helping each other as equals to be better partners and people in general.
It was similar for me in my last relationship, not so much a trust thing but constantly capitulating and such. About 2 years or so into it (lasted 3.5) she suddenly would have some thing she didn't like and we'd argue about it, but because I loved her and put alot of trust / faith in her, I just kept conceding. I figured she knew what she was talking about, maybe I just wasn't good enough. I'll admit too, a part of that was that I was afraid she'd leave me if I didn't change. I'd constantly try and change myself to be more how she wanted me. It worked for awhile, things seemed fantastic and then suddenly she just left me.
I think in the end, if anything works long term, it has to be 50/50. That especially includes trust!
DarkMecha on
Steam Profile | My Art | NID: DarkMecha (SW-4787-9571-8977) | PSN: DarkMecha
Important to note, don't concede and say "you're right i feel X" but also just don't get in an argument at all. Just flat out refuse. If she starts up say "I'm sorry but i feel like this is not contructive/healthy" and stop talking maybe really move physically away.
Someone shoud look at my phrasing i'm very bad at not sounding agressive. Not fighting and also not conceding is the way to open up a real conversation i think.
I wonder if the reason any way of phrasing that comes off aggressive is because it completely kills any conversation that could come from the topic at hand?
Oh well that was, what i was suggesting. Just don't talk to her if she tries to get you into an argument. Your way might work though. My idea was to shock her into realizing this wan't a proper form of discourse. Shock by just refusing to talk when the "you're lying, no i'm not" thing comes up.
Thanks for the advice everyone, the issue isn't fully solved yet I don't feel, but I do have a lot now to think about and be wary of in the future when situations like this come up.
Sorry, didn't have time to read page 2, but has anyone suggested you two see a neutral third party?
It could be a really good friend you both trust to be neutral or a therapist. Because it doesn't sound like she ever backs down and you do just to not fight. I'd usually do the same thing, honestly. Fighting over such a minor thing as being really tired after a workout is dumb, so I get where you're coming from.
If she can hear what you've been telling her from a neutral person, it would hopefully help. Best of luck, CO!
edit: And it is so infuriating to me when people try to tell me what I'm thinking or feeling. Really trips my trigger. Serenity now, serenity now, etc.
I want this to get more attention, it sounds like a good thing.
A question: Have you given her reason to be mistrustful of you previously?
An idea: try talking to her about this when it isn't a hot issue. Don't say "you always think I'm lying" right after she says your lying. That just starts a fight...but once things are tranquil (and I know this is hard to do because you've been trying to avoid confrontation) you need to bring up the issue. If she's an interrupter, ask her to hear you out entirely before you even begin and she knows what you're going to talk about.
Once she learns that its important enough to you that you bring it up (and not just use it in a defensive manner) *hopefully* she'll start realizing that her actions are not okay. If she does not, then you possibly need to have an out-and-out fight that you *do not* concede on (make sure that you're actually telling the truth on this, so that when it gets hard you can stick by the truth). I know fights suck, and rarely anyone would tell anyone else to actually have one...and there *should* be better ways of dealing with things, but sometimes a fight is what's needed with certain people. I don't know what tactics she uses to get you to concede, but you probably do. Be ready for them...and a few more to boot. Possibly be willing to let the issue drop without reaching an agreement, but I agree with everyone that says you need to stop submitting all the time.
Posts
Not my first relationship, but for me it was about a month and a half of actually living with the guy. I had never experienced anything like that in a relationship, and I at first pegged it as occasional fighting, which many couples do. It was a couple months before I recognized it for what it was, and I should have dropped the whole thing like it was hot right then. The thing is, after a while conceding to end a fight about whether or not you're mad or whether or not someone said something bad about him because you know that it will end a fight that will otherwise last for days... that does something to you. And pretty soon my concession wasn't enough to put an issue to rest anymore.
I'm not saying that's what's happening here, but I do think that it's something that needs fixing. If telling her that all of this is hurting you isn't enough to make her re-examine this behavior then I would definitely be wary.
You don't need to end the relationship but you guys need to have a talk about this where she can come to an understanding. If she refuses to, well, what kind of future are you honestly expecting with this girl?
It could be a really good friend you both trust to be neutral or a therapist. Because it doesn't sound like she ever backs down and you do just to not fight. I'd usually do the same thing, honestly. Fighting over such a minor thing as being really tired after a workout is dumb, so I get where you're coming from.
If she can hear what you've been telling her from a neutral person, it would hopefully help. Best of luck, CO!
edit: And it is so infuriating to me when people try to tell me what I'm thinking or feeling. Really trips my trigger. Serenity now, serenity now, etc.
Someone shoud look at my phrasing i'm very bad at not sounding agressive. Not fighting and also not conceding is the way to open up a real conversation i think.
You can't feel the way you actually feel, you have to feel the way that she wants you to feel. Anything else is lying. As an aside, lying is usually defined as the cardinal sin of relationships. If you're lying to your significant other, most people find that pretty abhorrent. So she's telling you that your feelings aren't true (they're lies) while at the same time making you, over time, feel bad about feeling the way you do naturally.
And after a while, you start to concede the point because you just don't want to fight. Then you might actually start feeling that way, and she might even badger you to the point where she convinces you she's right. She will have replaced your feelings with her own, with the way she wants you to feel.
Does that sound like a relationship you want to be in? If not, you'd better talk to her about it. I wouldn't stay in a relationship like that, I don't think many of us would. Since you're posting here about it, I'd say the problem is probably pretty serious, and you should take it seriously. It's controlling, emotionally abusive behavior and it needs to stop.
Anyway, unfortunately, I was lying to her about a load of things towards the end, but the reason she was so dubious of my actions and intentions in the first place was because she was painfully insecure. Is it possible that your girlfriend is feeling the same?
I wonder if the reason any way of phrasing that comes off aggressive is because it completely kills any conversation that could come from the topic at hand?
Maybe a segue or broaching the topic without validating her statement would be better?
Like when she said he must feel faint instead of saying 'I'm fine' saying 'Why, do I look funny? Cuz I feel alright'.
Hopefully that way instead of getting defensive the conversation might continue to the point where the actual issue comes up?
Edit: I mean, it's obviously not gonna suddenly be about why your a constant liar in her mind, but maybe it'd open the lines of communication more if her defenses aren't being triggered so much. Doesn't mean you have to pussyfoot around her constantly, but being a little more mindful of how you say stuff could go a long way. Plus a lot of dedication to not get sucked into the old routine.
"I'm fine."
"Don't lie. You're lying."
"You're right, I'm lying. I truly feel awful. Would you please go and get me a glass of cold water? Honey?"
edit: i know this works because i cop it all the time. my girlfriend is a master of the gently sarcastic concession of argument. this isn't 'trust issues', it's just gentle human neuroticism which we all have to learn to deal with in whatever way we can, especially when we want significant relationships. you'll figure it out.
I don't know how long this has been going on, but be very careful about constantly conceding / bending to defuse arguments or just so that things will be "ok". They likely will not, because a relationship should be about give and take, helping each other as equals to be better partners and people in general.
It was similar for me in my last relationship, not so much a trust thing but constantly capitulating and such. About 2 years or so into it (lasted 3.5) she suddenly would have some thing she didn't like and we'd argue about it, but because I loved her and put alot of trust / faith in her, I just kept conceding. I figured she knew what she was talking about, maybe I just wasn't good enough. I'll admit too, a part of that was that I was afraid she'd leave me if I didn't change. I'd constantly try and change myself to be more how she wanted me. It worked for awhile, things seemed fantastic and then suddenly she just left me.
I think in the end, if anything works long term, it has to be 50/50. That especially includes trust!
Oh well that was, what i was suggesting. Just don't talk to her if she tries to get you into an argument. Your way might work though. My idea was to shock her into realizing this wan't a proper form of discourse. Shock by just refusing to talk when the "you're lying, no i'm not" thing comes up.
I want this to get more attention, it sounds like a good thing.
A question: Have you given her reason to be mistrustful of you previously?
An idea: try talking to her about this when it isn't a hot issue. Don't say "you always think I'm lying" right after she says your lying. That just starts a fight...but once things are tranquil (and I know this is hard to do because you've been trying to avoid confrontation) you need to bring up the issue. If she's an interrupter, ask her to hear you out entirely before you even begin and she knows what you're going to talk about.
Once she learns that its important enough to you that you bring it up (and not just use it in a defensive manner) *hopefully* she'll start realizing that her actions are not okay. If she does not, then you possibly need to have an out-and-out fight that you *do not* concede on (make sure that you're actually telling the truth on this, so that when it gets hard you can stick by the truth). I know fights suck, and rarely anyone would tell anyone else to actually have one...and there *should* be better ways of dealing with things, but sometimes a fight is what's needed with certain people. I don't know what tactics she uses to get you to concede, but you probably do. Be ready for them...and a few more to boot. Possibly be willing to let the issue drop without reaching an agreement, but I agree with everyone that says you need to stop submitting all the time.
Just my 2cp worth.