As soon as I read the first post I said "Levine will put in a good way to implement the Little Sister's invulnerability." I tend to give Devs the benefit of the doubt on unreleased games.
And sure enough I was right.
Yeah, I'm still really glad we went with the little girl idea. After we ditched the sea slug idea we knew we needed something that evoked empathy in the player, but understandably there was some trepidation about it being a child. I remember some early sketches of dogs (with their hind-legs bound to little wheelers), ADAM-addicted chimps, and something that was a cross between an Oompa-Loompa and an Ugnaught - wasn't nobody gonna think twice about shooting that little bastard.
Here's something to think about - you just know you're going to destroy the underwater habitat by the end of the game. Either in a Resident Evil-esque self-destruct command or sending torpedoes at the hull, the evil villain's underwater hideout always goes boom before the end credits. So all those Little Sisters are dead anyways.
Please make no reference to the System Shock 2 ending - it invalidates my notions.
I'm not going to lie, I really don't like this change because it goes against the absolute freedom I wanted in this game. No, I don't have any sick fantasies about murdering children - but I did want the difficulty to spare their lives in a real fight. Like Levine mentions, apparently it was hard to save the girl's life while taking down the Big Daddy and that pissed people off. Personally? I think that's how it should be. In most games, in fact damn near any game, it's always easier to just to kill everyone off than take the higher road. It's easier to just unload on an entire room rather than save the hostage for a few bonus points.
I thought Bioshock was going to be different. If you wanted to keep your humanity you were going to have to save / cure those little girls and you were going to have to work your ass off to do it. That means no stupid grenades, explosives, or simply unloading an automatic weapon in their direction. That's the kind of difficulty I wanted.
EDIT: I suppose it won't be too long till this game is cracked and their vulnerable anyway.
Like Levine mentions, apparently it was hard to save the girl's life while taking down the Big Daddy and that pissed people off. Personally? I think that's how it should be. In most games, in fact damn near any game, it's always easier to just to kill everyone off than take the higher road. It's easier to just unload on an entire room rather than save the hostage for a few bonus points.
Sure it could be more 'realistic' but if you look at it from a gameplay perspective you see that with all the shit that's going on in Rapture having the Little Sister's die all the firggin time whenever you're near them trying to fight can be highly frustrating.
Like Levine mentions, apparently it was hard to save the girl's life while taking down the Big Daddy and that pissed people off. Personally? I think that's how it should be. In most games, in fact damn near any game, it's always easier to just to kill everyone off than take the higher road. It's easier to just unload on an entire room rather than save the hostage for a few bonus points.
Sure it could be more 'realistic' but if you look at it from a gameplay perspective you see that with all the shit that's going on in Rapture having the Little Sister's die all the firggin time whenever you're near them trying to fight can be highly frustrating.
Plus, it takes an entire munitions depot to take down a Big Daddy. If you watch the gameplay video where thet attempt to kill one, they use grenades, drones, fire, you name it. There is very little chance of anyone living.
Like Levine mentions, apparently it was hard to save the girl's life while taking down the Big Daddy and that pissed people off. Personally? I think that's how it should be. In most games, in fact damn near any game, it's always easier to just to kill everyone off than take the higher road. It's easier to just unload on an entire room rather than save the hostage for a few bonus points.
Sure it could be more 'realistic' but if you look at it from a gameplay perspective you see that with all the shit that's going on in Rapture having the Little Sister's die all the firggin time whenever you're near them trying to fight can be highly frustrating.
Plus, it takes an entire munitions depot to take down a Big Daddy. If you watch the gameplay video where thet attempt to kill one, they use grenades, drones, fire, you name it. There is very little chance of anyone living.
Exactly. This is a game, and Levine et Co. and making it to entertain you and when Little Sisters die waaaay too easily the game is not fun. So Levine decided to work around this and soon enough we'll know exactly what this work around is.
I'm not going to lie, I really don't like this change because it goes against the absolute freedom I wanted in this game. No, I don't have any sick fantasies about murdering children - but I did want the difficulty to spare their lives in a real fight. Like Levine mentions, apparently it was hard to save the girl's life while taking down the Big Daddy and that pissed people off. Personally? I think that's how it should be. In most games, in fact damn near any game, it's always easier to just to kill everyone off than take the higher road. It's easier to just unload on an entire room rather than save the hostage for a few bonus points.
I thought Bioshock was going to be different. If you wanted to keep your humanity you were going to have to save / cure those little girls and you were going to have to work your ass off to do it. That means no stupid grenades, explosives, or simply unloading an automatic weapon in their direction. That's the kind of difficulty I wanted.
EDIT: I suppose it won't be too long till this game is cracked and their vulnerable anyway.
I think it's worth asking why the sisters were so easily killed by accident. Was there not enough room in the environment to properly evade? Did grenades bounce or bullets ricochet too much? Did the AI do dumb things like run out into the middle of open fire to get to a pre-selected cover point, or stray too far from its protector? Were the daddies just not fast enough to stop the player, or could they be easily fooled?
Granted, I didn't play System Shock for intense and challenging combat, as it was often neither. Still, if you're going to go on about these two characters and their complex behavior within a mutant ecosystem, you have to at least try to be prepared for what a diligent player can do.
ahahahahahahahahaha, i'm actually crying with laughter. Genius. And the responses made it funnier.
Back to the posts from the team though, it's good to see them talking like that, taking responsibility, and also calling it a design decision. That shows it's something that's been thought out, developed, refined, and implemented. It's not just a rushed patch to cover up something they thought wouldn't pass the ratings board, but rather a decision they felt would improve the game, and tested until it worked.
Good show.
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AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
edited May 2007
This is a fairly disappointing decision to me, because it seems to go completely against the games actual themes of providing choice in how the player interacts with the environment to the player. Now how we interact with the environment (which can include AIs) is being dictated entirely by the game designer and that's not what originally got me interested in the game at all.
I do hope this is an isolated example and not a recurring design theme, because the game still sounds awesome from everything else I've read.
Do you get a reward for "rescuing" them? And by rescue, do they mean killing the protector and then not killing the girl?
That's actually something I mentioned earlier. I'll feel bad if the option is A.) be evil and kill the big daddy and the girl, or B.) kill the big daddy, save the girl
I mean... the big daddies are like giant armoured drill armed teddy bears!
Posts
Yeah, I'm still really glad we went with the little girl idea. After we ditched the sea slug idea we knew we needed something that evoked empathy in the player, but understandably there was some trepidation about it being a child. I remember some early sketches of dogs (with their hind-legs bound to little wheelers), ADAM-addicted chimps, and something that was a cross between an Oompa-Loompa and an Ugnaught - wasn't nobody gonna think twice about shooting that little bastard.
Please make no reference to the System Shock 2 ending - it invalidates my notions.
It doesn't look that much like it.
People are overinterpreting, I think.
I have seen lots of other designs like that that predate the thing in question.
Nah, the guy who designed it admitted as much on the TTLG forums. He just stylized to the point that it wasn't too obvious.
For some reason as soon as I read this post I got it.
I'm impressed they kept it after that.
not when it doesn't hurt me.
PSN: super_emu
Xbox360 Gamertag: Emuchop
I thought Bioshock was going to be different. If you wanted to keep your humanity you were going to have to save / cure those little girls and you were going to have to work your ass off to do it. That means no stupid grenades, explosives, or simply unloading an automatic weapon in their direction. That's the kind of difficulty I wanted.
EDIT: I suppose it won't be too long till this game is cracked and their vulnerable anyway.
Sure it could be more 'realistic' but if you look at it from a gameplay perspective you see that with all the shit that's going on in Rapture having the Little Sister's die all the firggin time whenever you're near them trying to fight can be highly frustrating.
Plus, it takes an entire munitions depot to take down a Big Daddy. If you watch the gameplay video where thet attempt to kill one, they use grenades, drones, fire, you name it. There is very little chance of anyone living.
Exactly. This is a game, and Levine et Co. and making it to entertain you and when Little Sisters die waaaay too easily the game is not fun. So Levine decided to work around this and soon enough we'll know exactly what this work around is.
I think it's worth asking why the sisters were so easily killed by accident. Was there not enough room in the environment to properly evade? Did grenades bounce or bullets ricochet too much? Did the AI do dumb things like run out into the middle of open fire to get to a pre-selected cover point, or stray too far from its protector? Were the daddies just not fast enough to stop the player, or could they be easily fooled?
Granted, I didn't play System Shock for intense and challenging combat, as it was often neither. Still, if you're going to go on about these two characters and their complex behavior within a mutant ecosystem, you have to at least try to be prepared for what a diligent player can do.
Now playing: Teardown and Baldur's Gate 3 (co-op)
Sunday Spotlight: Horror Tales: The Wine
Thing is,
I was actually thinking of some chapter/armour symbol stuff in Warhammer 40k or something when I said that.
It's still quite funny when you read it like that.
I was lying and have never seen it before in my life.
Am I just incredibly dense, or very very lucky?
Very lucky. You've never been goatse'd. (DO NOT put that into a search box).
Short answer: Its a picture of a man holding his ass open. Very. Very. Wide.
Goatse is burned into your mind.
Oh God no! I've seen it before, but my mind had repressed it. Now I remember it all! Goatse, tub girl, being molested by my father....noooo!
edit: I must be desensitized or something because goatse doesn't bother me like it seems to do you guys.
I have absolutely idea what you are talking about, and never will
I'm not sensitive but BAM, gaping ass out of nowhere was a bit much. :P
That's true, I was rather surprised when I first saw it (thanks to SE++ no less. I didn't know what it was and asked for a PM ).
...sig time.
Not mine, but somebody's, surely!
Especially the "I love goatse." part.
Back to the posts from the team though, it's good to see them talking like that, taking responsibility, and also calling it a design decision. That shows it's something that's been thought out, developed, refined, and implemented. It's not just a rushed patch to cover up something they thought wouldn't pass the ratings board, but rather a decision they felt would improve the game, and tested until it worked.
Good show.
I do hope this is an isolated example and not a recurring design theme, because the game still sounds awesome from everything else I've read.
I mean... the big daddies are like giant armoured drill armed teddy bears!
AGHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
Seven minutes of new footage. Might contain spoilers if you're sensitive to that sort of thing.
Same. My mind has been fucked so many times this year.
Man, this is going to scare the everliving shit out of me.
Also that trailer was intense. That big daddy was scary. >.>