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[Space Wars] The Next Generation

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Posts

  • Witch_Hunter_84Witch_Hunter_84 Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    If I remember the movie correctly there were two X-Wings and one Y-Wing that survived the encounter alongside the Mellenium Falcon as they sped away from the exploding Deathstar.

    If you can't beat them, arrange to have them beaten in your presence.
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    mrt144 wrote: »
    Omnibus wrote: »
    Speaking as a seasoned player of the computer game X-Wing v.s. Tie FIghter, I can assure you Synth that the only suicide missions that actually took place where when other pilots flew against me.

    If I remember correctly, out of all those Rebel fighters sent up against the Death Star, the only three official survivors are Luke, Wedge, and The Guy You Are When You Play X-Wing. Who later on became a Jedi.

    It's funny how as technology progresses the ideas in old movies are so silly. I'd send a million predator space drones at the death star now.

    Ballistic missiles, man. Send up twice as many for half the price. Let's see them intercept all of them.

    Really, if Star Wars had caught up to the 21st century, or even before that, you certainly wouldn't have fighters engaging eachother, than ships. You'd have the ships firing salvos of long-range missiles that could obliterate an enemy ship in a few quick hits, and could be deployed in a hundredth the time needed to scramble pilots and launch them.

    It wouldn't be very exciting.

    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fx3rSNzOAMM
    I'm surprised Lucasarts doesn't pretend this doesn't exist.

  • BubbaTBubbaT Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Couscous wrote: »
    The infantry combat could easily be fixed, just retcon the Ewoks to have poison-tipped weapons in that battle. Stormtrooper armor isn't chain mail. The black parts are cloth, easy to pierce with a blade or spearpoint. Just slap some poison on those little Ewok hatchets, and they can kill stormtroopers easy.
    That would mean they would have to be insanely good at aiming.

    Well, they do hit all of their projectile attacks in the movie. Except for that one idiot Ewok who bolas himself in the face.

    I assume it would be easier to get to the black parts once the Stormtrooper was down. The hands are pretty unprotected by ST armor, since they need to retain finger flexibility, only the back of the hand is covered. And since the natural defensive posture of the hands is with the palms out, you have 2 nice black targets covered only by cloth, waiting to be poisoned.

  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Synthesis wrote: »
    mrt144 wrote: »
    Omnibus wrote: »
    Speaking as a seasoned player of the computer game X-Wing v.s. Tie FIghter, I can assure you Synth that the only suicide missions that actually took place where when other pilots flew against me.

    If I remember correctly, out of all those Rebel fighters sent up against the Death Star, the only three official survivors are Luke, Wedge, and The Guy You Are When You Play X-Wing. Who later on became a Jedi.

    It's funny how as technology progresses the ideas in old movies are so silly. I'd send a million predator space drones at the death star now.

    Ballistic missiles, man. Send up twice as many for half the price. Let's see them intercept all of them.

    Really, if Star Wars had caught up to the 21st century, or even before that, you certainly wouldn't have fighters engaging eachother, than ships. You'd have the ships firing salvos of long-range missiles that could obliterate an enemy ship in a few quick hits, and could be deployed in a hundredth the time needed to scramble pilots and launch them.

    It wouldn't be very exciting.

    The most realistic space battle I've read was from a parody sci-fi book, ironically enough.

    When two ships engaged in battle, their computers linked, determined which ship had the advantage (better weapons and armour, more manoeuvrability, superior tactical computer), and when the balance of probability was for one side the other just surrendered without firing a shot.

    RichyFlag.gifsig.gif
  • mrt144mrt144 King of the Numbernames Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Richy wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote: »
    mrt144 wrote: »
    Omnibus wrote: »
    Speaking as a seasoned player of the computer game X-Wing v.s. Tie FIghter, I can assure you Synth that the only suicide missions that actually took place where when other pilots flew against me.

    If I remember correctly, out of all those Rebel fighters sent up against the Death Star, the only three official survivors are Luke, Wedge, and The Guy You Are When You Play X-Wing. Who later on became a Jedi.

    It's funny how as technology progresses the ideas in old movies are so silly. I'd send a million predator space drones at the death star now.

    Ballistic missiles, man. Send up twice as many for half the price. Let's see them intercept all of them.

    Really, if Star Wars had caught up to the 21st century, or even before that, you certainly wouldn't have fighters engaging eachother, than ships. You'd have the ships firing salvos of long-range missiles that could obliterate an enemy ship in a few quick hits, and could be deployed in a hundredth the time needed to scramble pilots and launch them.

    It wouldn't be very exciting.

    The most realistic space battle I've read was from a parody sci-fi book, ironically enough.

    When two ships engaged in battle, their computers linked, determined which ship had the advantage (better weapons and armour, more manoeuvrability, superior tactical computer), and when the balance of probability was for one side the other just surrendered without firing a shot.

    That would never allow for The Picard Maneuver.

  • BubbaTBubbaT Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    mrt144 wrote: »
    Omnibus wrote: »
    Speaking as a seasoned player of the computer game X-Wing v.s. Tie FIghter, I can assure you Synth that the only suicide missions that actually took place where when other pilots flew against me.

    If I remember correctly, out of all those Rebel fighters sent up against the Death Star, the only three official survivors are Luke, Wedge, and The Guy You Are When You Play X-Wing. Who later on became a Jedi.

    It's funny how as technology progresses the ideas in old movies are so silly. I'd send a million predator space drones at the death star now.

    Drones would work

    ... until some 8 year old blows up the command ship that's coordinating all those drones, then does a barrel roll because it's a neat trick.

    Synthesis wrote: »
    Ballistic missiles, man. Send up twice as many for half the price. Let's see them intercept all of them.

    They have anti-missile defenses in Star Wars. They lower the power of the laser cannons, allowing them to shoot faster, since you don't need a full-strength laser to detonate the warhead. Then they fill up the sky with red and green light.

    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Point-defense_laser_cannon_%28anti-missile%29

    Both concussion missiles and proton torpedoes are listed as being nuclear/thermonuclear warheads, and it takes a number of those just to whittle down a SD's shields, let alone take out the DS with a broadside.

  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    They have anti-missile defenses in Star Wars. They lower the power of the laser cannons, allowing them to shoot faster, since you don't need a full-strength laser to detonate the warhead. Then they fill up the sky with red and green light.
    Wouldn't even need explosives. Newton is the deadliest son of a bitch in space.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCoHT_cHPzY

  • EmperorSethEmperorSeth Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I...I just feel like you guys should be prohibited from speculative fiction now. Like the ascended spirit of Asimov should just whack you on the head any time you do something science-fictiony. Honestly, shooting ballistic missiles at the Death Star...

    EmperorSeth.png
  • BubbaTBubbaT Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Just shoot down the slugs.

    Or don't, just let them hit the DS. You're basically talking about throwing bowling balls at the moon. Look at our moon, it's been hit a bunch of times and hasn't gone anywhere.

    Besides, those teamsters down in Imperial Repair & Maintenance could stand to actually do some work once in a while.

  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    You're basically talking about throwing bowling balls at the moon.
    A throwing ball thrown at or above the speed of light would destroy almost anything.

  • mrt144mrt144 King of the Numbernames Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I...I just feel like you guys should be prohibited from speculative fiction now. Like the ascended spirit of Asimov should just whack you on the head any time you do something science-fictiony. Honestly, shooting ballistic missiles at the Death Star...

    That's why you need something you can fly by wire into the belly of the beast without sacrificing valuable mans.

  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I...I just feel like you guys should be prohibited from speculative fiction now. Like the ascended spirit of Asimov should just whack you on the head any time you do something science-fictiony. Honestly, shooting ballistic missiles at the Death Star...

    That's why I said it wouldn't be very exciting.

    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • BubbaTBubbaT Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Couscous wrote: »
    You're basically talking about throwing bowling balls at the moon.
    A throwing ball thrown at or above the speed of light would destroy almost anything.

    I think you mis-heard the video. The 20-kg slug is being thrown/shot at 1.3% of light speed, not 1.3x light speed.

    If ME had 1.3xLS guns, they sure wouldn't need Shepard to kill the "Reapers".

  • President RexPresident Rex Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    The X-Wing/TIE Fighter stuff is alright in its relation to WW2-era dogfighting (just like the SDs and such are representative of WW2 era dreadnaughts). How much survivability can you really expect in a portapotty-sized compartment with engines and weapons strapped to it, where the smallest hull breach can mean imminent death for the pilot? We should probably ignore that computers in super-advanced future space can probably track objects with errorless precision...


    I would also guess Star Destroyers and the like must have some sort of ballistic projectile countermeasure. Something the size of the Death Star is going to be in danger of get hit by a meteoroid relativistically going many km/s at some point. Never mind space rail guns aiming things at it.


    But then the only visual science fiction I've seen that acknowledges that tiny debris is flying around is Stargate Atlantis when someone gets hit in the leg with one when the shield goes out while they're flying through space.

    Join the Crew: Sink to the level of sinking those trying to sink us.
    PR-SH3-sig2.gif
  • KageraKagera Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Space is big and black and empty Rex haven't you seen the sky at night?

    MOSTLY BLACK!

    “This is America. We’re entitled to our opinions.”
    “Wrong. This is Texas. And my opinion is the only one that counts."
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    BubbaT wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    You're basically talking about throwing bowling balls at the moon.
    A throwing ball thrown at or above the speed of light would destroy almost anything.

    I think you mis-heard the video. The 20-kg slug is being thrown/shot at 1.3% of light speed, not 1.3x light speed.

    If ME had 1.3xLS guns, they sure wouldn't need Shepard to kill the "Reapers".
    I'm talking more about Star Wars. Star Wars definitely has faster than light travel that works like normal linear non-magic worm holes fuckery travel. In one scene, Han talks about running into some stars if they don't allow the ship to calculate course. Really, they would just need to have a ship, aim it at the Death Star, and then set it to ludicrous speed. The Death Star wouldn't have time to react, and the death star should be a big enough and slow enough object to aim at.

  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Couscous wrote: »
    BubbaT wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    You're basically talking about throwing bowling balls at the moon.
    A throwing ball thrown at or above the speed of light would destroy almost anything.

    I think you mis-heard the video. The 20-kg slug is being thrown/shot at 1.3% of light speed, not 1.3x light speed.

    If ME had 1.3xLS guns, they sure wouldn't need Shepard to kill the "Reapers".
    I'm talking more about Star Wars. Star Wars definitely has faster than light travel that works like normal linear non-magic worm holes fuckery travel. In one scene, Han talks about running into some stars if they don't allow the ship to calculate course. Really, they would just need to have a ship, aim it at the Death Star, and then set it to ludicrous speed. The Death Star wouldn't have time to react, and the death star should be a big enough and slow enough object to aim at.

    Of course, by the same logic, you wouldn't need the Death Star. A large enough ship going multiple times the speed of light directly into a planet could obliterate a terrestrial world. You could just have it take off from the other planet like a normal ship.

    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • see317see317 Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Synthesis wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    BubbaT wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    You're basically talking about throwing bowling balls at the moon.
    A throwing ball thrown at or above the speed of light would destroy almost anything.

    I think you mis-heard the video. The 20-kg slug is being thrown/shot at 1.3% of light speed, not 1.3x light speed.

    If ME had 1.3xLS guns, they sure wouldn't need Shepard to kill the "Reapers".
    I'm talking more about Star Wars. Star Wars definitely has faster than light travel that works like normal linear non-magic worm holes fuckery travel. In one scene, Han talks about running into some stars if they don't allow the ship to calculate course. Really, they would just need to have a ship, aim it at the Death Star, and then set it to ludicrous speed. The Death Star wouldn't have time to react, and the death star should be a big enough and slow enough object to aim at.

    Of course, by the same logic, you wouldn't need the Death Star. A large enough ship going multiple times the speed of life directly into a planet could obliterate a terrestrial world. You could just have it take off from the other planet like a normal ship.

    Then you have the problem that anyone in the galaxy with a moderately large freighter could damage or destroy any planet they wished. When you're a tyrannical dictator ruling by force and already fighting a fairly large well armed and well organized rebellion, that's not the way you want them to start thinking.

    Besides which, the Death Star served as much as a symbol of terror as an actual weapon. Anyone who saw the thing show up in orbit knows that they've screwed up, and everyone else in the galaxy knows they screwed up and knows it would be wise to endeavor not to screw up in the same way. Not so much when a relativistic planet killer might have been some freighter captain who hit the bottle a bit too hard and miscalculated his course by a fraction of a degree.

    Ringo wrote: »
    Well except what see317 said. That guy's always wrong.
  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Attempting to hyperspace into something like the Death Star would only result in your ship being ripped apart in hyperspace when it hit the gravity shadow.

    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
  • Stupid Mr Whoopsie NameStupid Mr Whoopsie Name Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2011
    What is a gravity shadow?

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • KageraKagera Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    What is a gravity shadow?

    Hyperspace and normal space are linked somewhat in existence. By trying to hyperspace into something you would only be hitting it's hyperspace equivalent to its mass and gravity well, aka gravity shadow. This is why you don't want to just hyperspace all willy nily because you could run into a star and get destroyed.

    At least that's what I'm guessing it is.

    “This is America. We’re entitled to our opinions.”
    “Wrong. This is Texas. And my opinion is the only one that counts."
  • Page-Page- Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    It's the impression large astral bodies in normal space leave in hyperspace. In Star Wars, hyperspace is a different dimension they travel through to get places, and they can only move in straight lines while there, which is why calculating the jump beforehand is important. They have to make sure they stay well away from anything big, because hitting it while in hyperspace would destroy them. Every ship with a hyperdrive also has fail-safes that will automatically drop them out of hyperspace if they're going to crash, and prevent them from going into hyperspace if they're within a certain distance of large astral bodies. Which is why people don't just jump into hyperspace as soon as they lift off from a planet.

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  • override367override367 Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Blah blah: plot device to explain why people don't just throw gigantic solid blocks of heavy metals at planets at lightspeed to annihilate them, because it would annihilate everything and the universe wouldn't be plausible because a whacko with a spaceship is as powerful as Moff Tarkin

    I'm okay with this

    XBLIVE: Biggestoverride
    League of Legends: override367
  • Muramasa18Muramasa18 Registered User
    edited February 2011
    Helm, warp 2, engage!

    Uh, I mean, jumping to hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy!

  • KageraKagera Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Muramasa18 wrote: »
    Helm, warp 2, engage!

    Uh, I mean, jumping to hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy!

    Wait...is there a wookiepedia article with a full history of crop dusting in Star Wars now?

    “This is America. We’re entitled to our opinions.”
    “Wrong. This is Texas. And my opinion is the only one that counts."
  • see317see317 Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Kagera wrote: »
    Muramasa18 wrote: »
    Helm, warp 2, engage!

    Uh, I mean, jumping to hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy!

    Wait...is there a wookiepedia article with a full history of crop dusting in Star Wars now?

    It really wouldn't surprise me.
    Probably have a list of links to popular crop-dusting star fighters too.

    Ringo wrote: »
    Well except what see317 said. That guy's always wrong.
  • ForarForar #432 Already prepping for Toronto Fan Expo!Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Blah blah: plot device to explain why people don't just throw gigantic solid blocks of heavy metals at planets at lightspeed to annihilate them, because it would annihilate everything and the universe wouldn't be plausible because a whacko with a spaceship is as powerful as Moff Tarkin

    I'm okay with this

    While they may have existed beforehand, the Thrawn series introduced me to a class of ship the Empire uses called an Interdictor, which essentially generates a massive gravity well (... don't ask) that convinces nearby ships that they're too close to a planet to jump to hyperspace, or to prevent reinforcements from joining the fray too quickly, among other uses.

    Now that I think about it, it also provides loitering/incoming/outgoing traffic a relatively safe zone. If you could just jump/warp/hyperspace into any place you liked, going to Coruscant would have to involve stopping at the outer boundries of the system, lest you inadvertantly land in someone else's lap, literally or figuratively. As long as you're within the gravity well/shadow, you're fairly safe from incoming traffic.

    sigtwo.png
  • Modern ManModern Man Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    mrt144 wrote: »
    Omnibus wrote: »
    Speaking as a seasoned player of the computer game X-Wing v.s. Tie FIghter, I can assure you Synth that the only suicide missions that actually took place where when other pilots flew against me.

    If I remember correctly, out of all those Rebel fighters sent up against the Death Star, the only three official survivors are Luke, Wedge, and The Guy You Are When You Play X-Wing. Who later on became a Jedi.

    It's funny how as technology progresses the ideas in old movies are so silly. I'd send a million predator space drones at the death star now.
    Yeah, our image of space battles is firmly planted in WWII naval battles in the Pacific. A bunch of small, single-pilot fighters and bombers going after aircraft carriers. Dogfights are up-close and personal and targetting seems to be pretty rudimentary. Smart munitions are unheard of.

    I guess you kind of have to take that approach, if you want your movie to be visually interesting. Even modern air combat would be pretty boring to show on film. Realistic space battles would involve both sides firing large numbers of smart munitions and drones, then watching the results on a screen. Not terribly interesting to watch.

    Aetian Jupiter - 41 Gunslinger - The Old Republic
    Rigorous Scholarship

  • Page-Page- Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Star Wars =/= The Forever War.

    I've been fine with that my entire life.

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  • Modern ManModern Man Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Page- wrote: »
    Star Wars =/= The Forever War.

    I've been fine with that my entire life.
    I pretty much ignore all the technology in Star Wars. Star Wars isn't really science-fiction, it's more a fantasy story set in space.

    The technology aspect of it is best glossed over. Laser swords? Really? What warrior would use something like that in a highly advanced space-faring civilization?

    Aetian Jupiter - 41 Gunslinger - The Old Republic
    Rigorous Scholarship

  • Page-Page- Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Modern Man wrote: »
    Page- wrote: »
    Star Wars =/= The Forever War.

    I've been fine with that my entire life.
    I pretty much ignore all the technology in Star Wars. Star Wars isn't really science-fiction, it's more a fantasy story set in space.

    The technology aspect of it is best glossed over. Laser swords? Really? What warrior would use something like that in a highly advanced space-faring civilization?

    Just wait until the Forever War movie finally gets made. They'll have to either go completely 2001 on it, or just change everything to make the space battles actually interesting to watch.

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  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Modern Man wrote: »
    I pretty much ignore all the technology in Star Wars. Star Wars isn't really science-fiction, it's more a fantasy story set in space.

    The technology aspect of it is best glossed over. Laser swords? Really? What warrior would use something like that in a highly advanced space-faring civilization?
    G1_Grimlock_vs_demons.jpg

    An awesome one, that's who.

    RichyFlag.gifsig.gif
  • Muramasa18Muramasa18 Registered User
    edited February 2011
    Just gonna leave this here:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFCBwob65Nw

    It's not really serious, just a bit of fun nerd-baiting.

  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Modern Man wrote: »
    Page- wrote: »
    Star Wars =/= The Forever War.

    I've been fine with that my entire life.
    I pretty much ignore all the technology in Star Wars. Star Wars isn't really science-fiction, it's more a fantasy story set in space.

    The technology aspect of it is best glossed over. Laser swords? Really? What warrior would use something like that in a highly advanced space-faring civilization?

    In complete honesty, I always found the naval architecture the most interesting part of Star Wars. The political "Aesop's Fable", quite frankly, sucks out loud. The Jedi come off as some sort of creepy warrior cult who train child soldiers and control the inner workings of government, who are pretty much the whole point of everything everywhere. And everyone's too stupid too see through obvious schemes.

    Ship designs, while highly impractical, are still interesting and curious. The engineering and logistical sides interest me.

    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • Page-Page- Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Here's the real Star Wars vs Star Trek:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5blbv4WFriM
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgspzYMdqdc

    Star Trek does get bonus points for having the legendary Quad Facepalm:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzLo-q_CK2w

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  • BubbaTBubbaT Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Blah blah: plot device to explain why people don't just throw gigantic solid blocks of heavy metals at planets at lightspeed to annihilate them, because it would annihilate everything and the universe wouldn't be plausible because a whacko with a spaceship is as powerful as Moff Tarkin

    I'm okay with this

    Newton doesn't exist in Star Wars anyways. In TIE Fighter or any of the other Larry Holland games, when you turn off your engines in space, you come to a complete stop.

  • chiasaur11chiasaur11 Never doubt a raccoon. Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    BubbaT wrote: »
    Blah blah: plot device to explain why people don't just throw gigantic solid blocks of heavy metals at planets at lightspeed to annihilate them, because it would annihilate everything and the universe wouldn't be plausible because a whacko with a spaceship is as powerful as Moff Tarkin

    I'm okay with this

    Newton doesn't exist in Star Wars anyways. In TIE Fighter or any of the other Larry Holland games, when you turn off your engines in space, you come to a complete stop.

    Well, yeah. He wasn't born yet.

  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    chiasaur11 wrote: »
    BubbaT wrote: »
    Blah blah: plot device to explain why people don't just throw gigantic solid blocks of heavy metals at planets at lightspeed to annihilate them, because it would annihilate everything and the universe wouldn't be plausible because a whacko with a spaceship is as powerful as Moff Tarkin

    I'm okay with this

    Newton doesn't exist in Star Wars anyways. In TIE Fighter or any of the other Larry Holland games, when you turn off your engines in space, you come to a complete stop.

    Well, yeah. He wasn't born yet.

    Purely non-Newtonian physics inevitably feel wrong to me. Then again, I got into TIE Fighter because I loved flight sims. Really, any similar game would really benefit from some sense of momentum and application of other forces, rather than "Your fighter can turn in any direction without any sort of problems, only limited by turn speed".

    I think it'd make for more interesting dogfighting. Force people to do something other than try and out-turn each other for ten minutes. But, that's only me. I'm sure that would piss people off as well.

    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • Page-Page- Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    That's what Descent is for.

    And it still had tri-cording. Unless you want a universe where everyone moves like a bishop.

    90s game physics > real world physics.

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