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[WoW] [Mages] sheep moon

WaltWalt Waller Arcane EnchantedFrozen ElectrifiedRegistered User regular
edited June 2011 in MMO Extravaganza
Moon-Sheep.jpg

Mage Thread for Mages
Welcome to the mage thread, wherein things are turned into sheep and monkeys and penguins and turtles and stuff.

From the official guide:
Blizzard wrote:
Mages demolish their foes with arcane incantations. Although they wield powerful offensive spells, mages are fragile and lightly armored, making them particularly vulnerable to close-range attacks. Wise mages make careful use of their spells to keep their foes at a distance or hold them in place. Also they are better than Warlocks.

If you want to blow up things and be a wonderful source of crowd control Mage could be the class for you! Mages are dynamic and fun to play and offer 3 different DPS specs for you to destroy things with. Fire is all about blowing things up and lighting things on fire. Frost is all about blowing things up and freezing them in place or slowing them down, as well as making people angry about PvP balance. Arcane is all about being incredibly bori- I mean blowing stuff up with magic missles and managing mana! (AND BEING BORING UAGH ITS SO BORING SERIOUSLY)

Mages are the only class that can make sweet portals to cities, and they can also conjure food so that you don't have to wait a half an hour for the healers mana pool to recover between pulls. Everyone loves having mages in their group.

Example Specs and How2Play
Check the spoiler underneath to learn 2 play (courtesy of Oghulk)

These specs are for a guideline, not as a statement of fact! These are all more or less PvE oriented. Use your imagination! Mages aren't as locked into cookie cutter specs as other classes can be. You may find different specs to be optimal for different fights.

Special note on gemming: ALWAYS GEM FOR INT. The rules for gemming are:
Red -> Int
Blue/Yellow -> Int/Secondary stat ONLY IF the socket bonus will account for the loss of int
Example: Two socket item with 1 Red and 1 Blue gem, with a +20 int socket bonus. Gem pure Int into Red, and gem Int/Hit into Blue, since the +20 int bonus from the socket gives you a "free lunch".
Example 2: Another two socket item, 1 Red, and 1 Blue, with a +10 int socket bonus. Put pure int gems in BOTH slots, since losing 10 int for 10 hit is a net DPS loss.

FIRE -> http://www.wowhead.com/talent#oohZrfhbkbRRsfoc:oczoMkVm0
Spoiler:

FROST -> http://www.wowhead.com/talent#o0bZfcZffMosIszMo:aMRkMq0mc
Spoiler:

ARCANE ->http://www.wowhead.com/talent#ohIMrRMRrRRorZc:s0Va0ozmV
Spoiler:

Excellent Mage resources

Elitist Jerks Mage subforum - http://elitistjerks.com/f75/ - Go here for up to date information about Specs, Gemming, Gearing, Priorities, anything and everything related to PvE

Arena Junkies Mage subforum - http://www.arenajunkies.com/forumdisplay.php?f=48 - PvP stuff!

Walt on
PSN:GeneiDjinn XBL:Top Hat Panda Steam:Top Hat Panda Battle.net:Walt#1813
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Posts

  • Agent CooperAgent Cooper Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I've noticed a new trend in dungeons where I'll polymorph an enemy that is attacking but standing away from the mob around the tank, and the tank will go out of his way to run over and break that poly despite there being other enemies to kill.

    I guess using polymorph emasculates tanks or something? Also emasculates hunter pets.

  • BobbleBobble Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Hello mage thread. Is this where we gloat about being able to easily traverse the exciting new world of Cataclysm that no longer has a hub city with portals?

  • HenroidHenroid Gibberish Cold white sand!Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I was wondering when someone would take up the mantle of the mage thread, sheesh!

    Also, I highly endorse mages as my caster class of choice. Fire spec makes my pants excited, always has, always will.

    "Ultima Online Pre-Trammel is the perfect example of why libertarians are full of shit." - @Ludious
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  • MorkathMorkath Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Isn't combustion bad? That is what everyone in GC has said so far.

    hobbessig.png
  • OghulkOghulk Tinychat Janitor Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
  • HenroidHenroid Gibberish Cold white sand!Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I'm still not sure how I feel about scorch being able to become a free-to-cast spell.

    "Ultima Online Pre-Trammel is the perfect example of why libertarians are full of shit." - @Ludious
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  • juice for jesusjuice for jesus Registered User
    edited February 2011
    I get a little miffed when moon is assigned to something other than sheep. There are traditions to be respected!

    Lanlaorn wrote: »
    That's just insulting, I think DBZ is bad but I'm not going to insinuate that it only appeals to people who are equal parts retards and psychopaths.
  • EnigEnig a.k.a. Ansatz Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I've noticed a new trend in dungeons where I'll polymorph an enemy that is attacking but standing away from the mob around the tank, and the tank will go out of his way to run over and break that poly despite there being other enemies to kill.

    I guess using polymorph emasculates tanks or something? Also emasculates hunter pets.

    It's not that, it's an issue of trust. For a long time we tanks have had to pick up all those adds and AoE-threat the bejeezus out of them. Those loose adds are horrible, horrible things to us and we feel we must pick them up. Sometimes this impulse causes a delay in noticing that our friendly mage way over in the back has taken care of it for us.

    iyjXwV5uPHHfO.jpg
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  • The Muffin ManThe Muffin Man Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Morkath wrote: »
    Isn't combustion bad? That is what everyone in GC has said so far.

    No, it's just even more RNG that Blizzard has insisted they don't like.
    You have to wait for:
    Pyroblast! procs (Because 2 crits in a row with under 30% crit rating is hell, and it seems the "activating" pyroblast like Arcane Missiles just plain stops working.)
    Ignite is up (which is frustrating, as 2 crits that proc Pyroblast! also means that you probably just screwed over most of your ignite)
    Living Bomb (not difficult, but I've had times where Living Bomb was at .5s left, and in the 1.5s or whatever it took me to recast it, Ignite fell off and refused to go back.)

    It's very good when it's up and running, and even better when we can Impact (Yay, RNG again!) it all over the place. But for the most part, it's Blizzard feeding us a load of shit about "Not liking RNG heavy classes".

    Well, not entirely.
    They don't seem to like Mages.

    shamanhealingwave.jpgabilitypaladinshieldofv.png
  • LorahaloLorahalo Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Someone told me to sheep circle the other day. What the hell.

    3DS: 1118-0244-2697
  • Corp.ShephardCorp.Shephard Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Ugh, nothing is worse than when they say "sheep square". Disgusting. What are these people, neanderthals?

    Still loving Frost. I am still dubious about the changes coming in the patch...

    I like my deep freeze crits where they are at 90k, thank you very much! In this raiding content where burst damage is magnified by fight mechanics the control of frost is very welcome.

  • XehalusXehalus Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    They made Frost terribly fun, I am tempted to raid Frost.

  • -SPI--SPI- Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I really like fire, but something to smooth it out a bit would be nice. Sometimes it's pyro pyro pyro with full combustion rolls and sometimes not so much. Seems like the only real answer is more crit, but there just isn't enough at this tier.

  • NobodyNobody Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    -SPI- wrote: »
    I really like fire, but something to smooth it out a bit would be nice. Sometimes it's pyro pyro pyro with full combustion rolls and sometimes not so much. Seems like the only real answer is more crit, but there just isn't enough at this tier.

    Agreed, there are some heroic bosses where I end the fight feeling like I didn't do enough because I got maybe 2 or 3 hot streaks the entire fight and I end up below the other DPS.

    Then there are fights where I get more than one hotstreak chain where nobody else can touch me.


    On another topic, do other people use teleport tol barad so they don't have to run across the entire island to turn quests in? :P

  • HenroidHenroid Gibberish Cold white sand!Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Morkath wrote: »
    Isn't combustion bad? That is what everyone in GC has said so far.

    No, it's just even more RNG that Blizzard has insisted they don't like.
    You have to wait for:
    Pyroblast! procs (Because 2 crits in a row with under 30% crit rating is hell, and it seems the "activating" pyroblast like Arcane Missiles just plain stops working.)
    Ignite is up (which is frustrating, as 2 crits that proc Pyroblast! also means that you probably just screwed over most of your ignite)
    Living Bomb (not difficult, but I've had times where Living Bomb was at .5s left, and in the 1.5s or whatever it took me to recast it, Ignite fell off and refused to go back.)

    It's very good when it's up and running, and even better when we can Impact (Yay, RNG again!) it all over the place. But for the most part, it's Blizzard feeding us a load of shit about "Not liking RNG heavy classes".

    Well, not entirely.
    They don't seem to like Mages.

    No no it's totally okay now because they made it do damage aside from the DOT when you cast it!

    /not-being-serious

    "Ultima Online Pre-Trammel is the perfect example of why libertarians are full of shit." - @Ludious
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  • juice for jesusjuice for jesus Registered User
    edited February 2011
    Nobody wrote: »
    On another topic, do other people use teleport tol barad so they don't have to run across the entire island to turn quests in? :P

    Hells yes. Also use it to get to Org.

    Lanlaorn wrote: »
    That's just insulting, I think DBZ is bad but I'm not going to insinuate that it only appeals to people who are equal parts retards and psychopaths.
  • NobodyNobody Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Henroid wrote: »
    Morkath wrote: »
    Isn't combustion bad? That is what everyone in GC has said so far.

    No, it's just even more RNG that Blizzard has insisted they don't like.
    You have to wait for:
    Pyroblast! procs (Because 2 crits in a row with under 30% crit rating is hell, and it seems the "activating" pyroblast like Arcane Missiles just plain stops working.)
    Ignite is up (which is frustrating, as 2 crits that proc Pyroblast! also means that you probably just screwed over most of your ignite)
    Living Bomb (not difficult, but I've had times where Living Bomb was at .5s left, and in the 1.5s or whatever it took me to recast it, Ignite fell off and refused to go back.)

    It's very good when it's up and running, and even better when we can Impact (Yay, RNG again!) it all over the place. But for the most part, it's Blizzard feeding us a load of shit about "Not liking RNG heavy classes".

    Well, not entirely.
    They don't seem to like Mages.

    No no it's totally okay now because they made it do damage aside from the DOT when you cast it!

    /not-being-serious

    The best description of combustion I've seen so far (I think this was in the fire mage issues thread on the official forums):

    Combustion adds up all of the fire dots you have on the target (Ignite, etc), and gets a figure. This figure is then thrown out and /random is done to find out how much damage it's actually going to do.

  • Smaug6Smaug6 Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Love the picture in the OP

    steam_sig.png
  • BrainleechBrainleech Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I have ran into a lot of people claiming the condom or diamond is sheep and it's always been that for them?

    I benched my mage till the patch other than porting people for gold since I felt I was not hitting as hard as I should be with fire spells

    A.jpg
  • JamesJames Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Best boss opening 'rotation':

    Freeze > Icy Veins > Frostfire Orb > Deep Freeze > Cold Snap > Deep Freeze > Frostfire Orb.

  • Corp.ShephardCorp.Shephard Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Does haste actually impact Frostfire orb in anyway? Is it important to put Icy Veins before Frostfire Orb?

  • OghulkOghulk Tinychat Janitor Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
  • DietarySupplementDietarySupplement Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I'm kind of a dumb goose, so answer me this: in the OP is says:
    Hit to 17% > Int > Crit >>>>>>> Mastery > Haste

    Does that mean hit trumps int trumps crit A WHOLE BUNCH OF LOTS over mastery and haste? In other words, worry more about the former and then the latter?

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  • OghulkOghulk Tinychat Janitor Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I'm kind of a dumb goose, so answer me this: in the OP is says:
    Hit to 17% > Int > Crit >>>>>>> Mastery > Haste

    Does that mean hit trumps int trumps crit A WHOLE BUNCH OF LOTS over mastery and haste? In other words, worry more about the former and then the latter?

    That was for the fire spec I wrote, and basically Crit is incredibly better than Mastery and Haste, so much so that if you come across an epic that has crit, get it.

    And yeah Hit is more valuable if not equal to Int, but both are still better than Crit, while crit is incredibly better than mastery, which is only slightly better than Haste.

    Oh wait forgot something, OP change the fire thing to be:

    Hit to 17% > Int > Crit >>>> Haste TO ~5% HASTE FOR EXTRA DOT > Mastery > Haste after 5%

  • HenroidHenroid Gibberish Cold white sand!Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    ... Why is mastery low on that totem pole exactly?

    Edit - Well... okay actually nevermind.

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  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Ugh, nothing is worse than when they say "sheep square". Disgusting. What are these people, neanderthals?
    Well, both moon and square are bluish, so they're kind of half right.

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    Subsequent wins now awards 75 Conquest Points (up from 50).
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  • OghulkOghulk Tinychat Janitor Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Henroid wrote: »
    ... Why is mastery low on that totem pole exactly?

    Edit - Well... okay actually nevermind.

    The fine folks over at EJ have been doing the math, but also because Pyroblast procs, along with ignite, can completely change your DPS depending on how many you get, Crit is basically awesome.

    The reason Haste is worse than mastery is because the only thing Haste is good for on fire is to increase the amount of ticks per application, which is why haste until ~5% is better than mastery. It takes a certain amount, right between 4.5 and 5% that gives you a second tick, then the amount required for another tick raises to an insane amount to the point where mastery just becomes better.

    Mages in general are just extremely based around Crit, but they're kind of changing it a bit to where it'll definitely be better than Haste due to the increase in it in both Fire and Frost.

  • JamesJames Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I don't think haste has an effect on FFO, so it may be more efficient to cast veins immediately before cold snap. It's only a second or two that's being lost, which isn't much of a difference either way.
    Oghulk wrote: »
    Doesn't Frostfire Orb just go away if you cast again?

    Or are you just doing another FFB after the first goes away?

    I've seen two out at once, but it's something to look into. If it does disappear, it's getting about half its ticks off, maybe not the most efficient use.

    Thanks for raising those questions.

  • OghulkOghulk Tinychat Janitor Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Was wondering because if it does, that use of cooldowns at the beginning would be incredibly efficient, since they'd be back up later on in the fight.

  • HoA-playerHoA-player Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Oghulk wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    ... Why is mastery low on that totem pole exactly?

    Edit - Well... okay actually nevermind.

    The fine folks over at EJ have been doing the math, but also because Pyroblast procs, along with ignite, can completely change your DPS depending on how many you get, Crit is basically awesome.

    The reason Haste is worse than mastery is because the only thing Haste is good for on fire is to increase the amount of ticks per application, which is why haste until ~5% is better than mastery. It takes a certain amount, right between 4.5 and 5% that gives you a second tick, then the amount required for another tick raises to an insane amount to the point where mastery just becomes better.

    Mages in general are just extremely based around Crit, but they're kind of changing it a bit to where it'll definitely be better than Haste due to the increase in it in both Fire and Frost.

    Actually because of how buggy ignite is combined with the reduction in mana cost in the next patch, haste will be better then crit.

    http://elitistjerks.com/f75/t110326-cataclysm_fire_mage_compendium/p9/#post1853966

  • The Muffin ManThe Muffin Man Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I'm kind of a dumb goose, so answer me this: in the OP is says:
    Hit to 17% > Int > Crit >>>>>>> Mastery > Haste

    Does that mean hit trumps int trumps crit A WHOLE BUNCH OF LOTS over mastery and haste? In other words, worry more about the former and then the latter?

    It's also wrong.
    If you gear for Hit at the expense of Int you're doing it wrong.

    shamanhealingwave.jpgabilitypaladinshieldofv.png
  • OghulkOghulk Tinychat Janitor Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I'm kind of a dumb goose, so answer me this: in the OP is says:
    Hit to 17% > Int > Crit >>>>>>> Mastery > Haste

    Does that mean hit trumps int trumps crit A WHOLE BUNCH OF LOTS over mastery and haste? In other words, worry more about the former and then the latter?

    It's also wrong.
    If you gear for Hit at the expense of Int you're doing it wrong.

    Right, and looking at stat weights Int is greater than Hit, but also since you would never have to worry about reforging Int, and since all items of a same item level are Int there would be no reason to think about it except in the areas of enchanting and gemming, in which case you always want Int.

    And epics are always better than blues, never downgrade a piece just for another stat simply because Int is incredibly powerful.

  • LykouraghLykouragh Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    There are also trinkets where you have to choose between passive int and a passive rating.

    Also, people screw up their gemming pretty often.

  • JamesJames Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Oghulk wrote: »
    Was wondering because if it does, that use of cooldowns at the beginning would be incredibly efficient, since they'd be back up later on in the fight.

    Turns out it dissapears. A shame, but its just a 15 second wait.

  • WaltWalt Waller Arcane Enchanted Frozen ElectrifiedRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I took out int from the stat weights (it is always the best stat) and added a special note on gemming so that you can't make terrible decisions on gemming.

    PSN:GeneiDjinn XBL:Top Hat Panda Steam:Top Hat Panda Battle.net:Walt#1813
  • OghulkOghulk Tinychat Janitor Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    That's probably the best way to do it, because in all honesty your primary stat will always be better than anything else, which just could make gearing and reforging kinda confusing at times.

  • XynnXynn Registered User
    edited February 2011
    Ok, this may be me showing how horribly awful I am at PvP but Ive been really curious. The PvPers in my guild have been raging about Frost Mages being so godly and how much Deep Freeze sucks. But thats where Im confused. How are they taking damage from Deep Freeze? Every time Ive used it in PvP, it just freezes the target and then I try to spam Ice Lance. Am I doing it wrong?

  • TyberiusTyberius Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    It's the stun aspect they hate about it is my guess. I loathe fighting Frost Mages on my paladin due to all of the control they have and by gaining FoF procs from Freeze, Frost Bolts (while you're stunned/rooted) or by swings of my sword (via Frost Armor) those Ice Lances hurt.

  • DietarySupplementDietarySupplement Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    You know what blows?

    Not getting any new spells from 58 to 68.

    Outlands is already boring enough.

    Skull2185 wrote: »
    Basically, (PlayStation) Home is Second Life Ultra Light? Most of the cool stuff, none of the creepy blimp on blimp fucking.
  • Catalus110Catalus110 Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Oghulk wrote: »
    I'm kind of a dumb goose, so answer me this: in the OP is says:
    Hit to 17% > Int > Crit >>>>>>> Mastery > Haste

    Does that mean hit trumps int trumps crit A WHOLE BUNCH OF LOTS over mastery and haste? In other words, worry more about the former and then the latter?

    It's also wrong.
    If you gear for Hit at the expense of Int you're doing it wrong.

    Right, and looking at stat weights Int is greater than Hit, but also since you would never have to worry about reforging Int, and since all items of a same item level are Int there would be no reason to think about it except in the areas of enchanting and gemming, in which case you always want Int.

    And epics are always better than blues, never downgrade a piece just for another stat simply because Int is incredibly powerful.

    <Head explode!>:shock: I seriously didn't know this! I thought reaching the hit cap was highest priority. My item level is about 334, I think, and I've been gemming and enchanting for hit this whole time! So now I better replace all my gems and enchants (if applicable) with +int or +int/hit, as stated in the OP.

    I'm Arcane Spec. Is lightweave embroidery (+~500 spell power proc) on cloak considered to be better than the +50 int enchant? The elitist jerks page seemed kinda ambiguous on that subject. The numbers were "assuming maximum up-time" which is kinda silly.

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