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Starcraft 2: Patch 1.3 on SEA! Notes on Page 93 (too long for OP)

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Posts

  • kedinikkedinik Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Seguer wrote: »
    Hallucation will be my new Storm.

    What's that? 20 Collosus?

    Damn straight.


    EDIT: "You don't want to micro out of my storm? Fine, micro to attack the real Collosi"

    Hallucinate is an underrated "I win" button against zerg who move out without an overseer.

  • SeguerSeguer Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Yeah. Then you try it against Terran and they're like "OLOLOLSCAN"

    :P

    Except that one Terran I tricked that one time during a lobby!

    Boy was his face red.

    I tried it against him the next time and then he scanned.

  • SceptreSceptre Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Actually, I should send you some replays I have of HuK and Kiwi using hallucinate vs zerg. Basically, they toss down hallucinated collosus when they retreat and they have them lag ever so slightly behind the real ones. Corrupters swoop in for collosus kill, stalkers snipe a corrupter or two for free.

    And Adel Scott loves to use hallucinate to make void rays vs terran to tank viking shots. Makes a standard two base timing attack with three collosus the stuff of nightmares.

  • StreltsyStreltsy Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Seguer wrote: »
    Streltsy you can't really compare direct times like that. You have to factor in other things like tech tree (time, cost, etc), what it does to your build if you choose that path, etc

    For Terran, getting Ghosts is as easy as a Ghost Academy. For Zerg, it's harder as they need to go Lair (what Zerg doesn't get Lair anyway) -> Infestation Pit. Protoss have to go Twilight Council -> Templar Archives (and then research storm!) BUT, going TC first often precludes going Robo or Stargate

    No you can't, I agree.

    But getting ghosts is not easy, they chew up tons of gas and getting them at even slightly the wrong time in the slightly the wrong numbers can really screw you over hard. I know from experience.

    So don't trivialize getting ghosts. Same thing with infestors I'm pretty sure. Every race has gas units they need critically and that spellcasters cut into, I'm not saying it isn't difficult, but it isn't unique.

    I'm not sure why Protoss feel they should get instant game-changing spells on warp-in while the other races don't have that. Especially when you consider storm is arguably the most powerful of these damage-dealing spells in the game (due to its incredible synergy with FFs and collosi, and it's area denial). You can effectively hold off tons of crap right after losing a huge fight by warping in a couple of templars, where are the T and Z units which can single-handedly do the same?

    They're still better than infestors and ghosts as they at least have merge + feedback to use while they're waiting on storm (meanwhile ghosts and infestors are effectively building in the rax/larva).

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  • OlorinOlorin Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Olorin wrote: »
    Man...the problem with HT's and colossi is that they step on each other's toes too much. *snip*

    Then they should have nerfed colossi and kept HTs the same/similar. Make the stronger unit the one that takes effort to aim the damage and dies easily rather than the one that is "A-move/back away sometimes".

    I'm 100% fine with such a change. They are just too similar as is...they need to differentiate them more.

  • ImpyrockerImpyrocker Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    i would be all for nerfing the colossus

    never been a fan

    i want to use immortals and templars more

    edit: going off of cork's point, another thing with the change is your templar army will be less mobile because instead of warping in storms at proxy pylons, you have to move your temps around with your army as you charge them

    and they are hella hella slow

    i wonder if peeps would get warp prisms to cart them around

    that would actually be p cool

    It could be like reaver drops!
    ...except not cool or fun :(

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    Spoiler:
  • Bruce ForsythBruce Forsyth Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Streltsy wrote: »

    Someone needs to explain to me these numbers. Going from TL's wiki, all three casters have 25+ starting mana upgrades (Until tomorrow). All three spells cost 75 mana. So what's going on with ghosts and infestors that they can't cast right away? Do they normally start with only 25 mana? I've never really checked exact starting mana for anything or done anything like that, really.

  • Beef AvengerBeef Avenger Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    he's counting build time, which is silly

  • OlorinOlorin Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    The logic is you warp in an HT, which is instant, and then wait for energy to generate. Whereas infestors and ghosts have build times, but come out with enough energy to do whatever.

    EDIT: ninja'd

  • undeinPiratundeinPirat Registered User
    edited March 2011
    Olorin wrote: »
    The logic is you warp in an HT, which is instant, and then wait for energy to generate. Whereas infestors and ghosts have build times, but come out with enough energy to do whatever.

    EDIT: ninja'd

    because warpgates dont have cooldowns

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] steam: undeinpirat
  • His CorkinessHis Corkiness Registered User
    edited March 2011
    Streltsy wrote: »
    I'm not sure why Protoss feel they should get instant game-changing spells on warp-in while the other races don't have that.
    Trust me, you don't want to head down this road. :P

  • Bruce ForsythBruce Forsyth Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    That's why mathcraft is awful. Lies, damned lies, and statistics.

    ^^^^. Why can't I inject my barracks and then warp 4 marauders in next to my supply depots?!

  • His CorkinessHis Corkiness Registered User
    edited March 2011
    Scrap Station
    Xel'Naga Caverns
    Backwater Gulch
    Delta Quadrant
    Metalopolis
    Shakuras Plateau
    Slag Pits
    Tal'darim Altar LE
    The Shattered Temple
    Typhon Peaks

  • SeguerSeguer Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Typhoon? I thought it was Typhon?

    Or am I still that sick?

  • His CorkinessHis Corkiness Registered User
    edited March 2011
    I copied&pasted from TL and didn't notice.

  • StreltsyStreltsy Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    he's counting build time, which is silly

    How is it silly?

    You warp in the unit, and you effectively wait for it's build time to have enough energy to storm. Exactly like the other races except your unit is on the map and can feedback/merge while the other casters are building.

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  • SeguerSeguer Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    So instead of our units being semi protected, they can be out on the map under threat of snipers?

    Hurray!

  • OlorinOlorin Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Olorin wrote: »
    The logic is you warp in an HT, which is instant, and then wait for energy to generate. Whereas infestors and ghosts have build times, but come out with enough energy to do whatever.

    EDIT: ninja'd

    because warpgates dont have cooldowns

    I never said I agreed with such logic....I was just explaining why people were posting the numbers...:P

  • evilthecatevilthecat Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Seguer wrote: »
    So instead of our units being semi protected, they can be out on the map under threat of snipers?

    Hurray!

    I really don't see protoss having any right to complain.
    forcefields are just eye-gougingly depressing.

    tip.. tip.. TALLY.. HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
  • StreltsyStreltsy Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Seguer wrote: »
    So instead of our units being semi protected, they can be out on the map under threat of snipers?

    Hurray!

    Or you could be hunting the "snipers".

    Feedback, it's pretty good man.
    Olorin wrote: »
    Olorin wrote: »
    The logic is you warp in an HT, which is instant, and then wait for energy to generate. Whereas infestors and ghosts have build times, but come out with enough energy to do whatever.

    EDIT: ninja'd

    because warpgates dont have cooldowns

    I never said I agreed with such logic....I was just explaining why people were posting the numbers...:P

    Explain to me what's wrong with the logic.

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  • OlorinOlorin Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Streltsy wrote: »
    he's counting build time, which is silly

    How is it silly?

    You warp in the unit, and you effectively wait for it's build time to have enough energy to storm. Exactly like the other races except your unit is on the map and can feedback/merge while the other casters are building.

    Khaydarin amulet should be considered for removal under it's own merits....not for the reason of making the units more similar....aren't you always going on how you can't directly compare units between the three races like that?

  • Beef AvengerBeef Avenger Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Warping in an amuletless templar essentially puts your production on hold while the templar gains energy. You replaced a production cycle that could have been immediately useful with one that is temporarily useless, leaving a window of vulnerability

    with terran production cycles, you have to wait a production time regardless of unit choice. Choosing ghost over marauder doesn't create a period of useless reinforcement, you just end up with something different at the end

  • WhatWhat Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Why not see how protoss fare without the upgrade in high level play before getting upset! They already dominated the GSL so let's just see how they do instead of stooping to their level and being clowntoss!

    HAHAYES.jpg
  • Walrus von ZeppelinWalrus von Zeppelin Registered User
    edited March 2011
    A protoss won the GSL this month so they must need to be nerfed.

  • Beef AvengerBeef Avenger Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    What wrote: »
    Why not see how protoss fare without the upgrade in high level play before getting upset! They already dominated the GSL so let's just see how they do instead of stooping to their level and being clowntoss!

    It's not like there's going to be a sudden drop in protoss play, collosi were already the go to unit. there's just going to be a ton less variety. booooooring

  • Raiden333Raiden333 Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    What wrote: »
    Why not see how protoss fare without the upgrade in high level play before getting upset! They already dominated the GSL so let's just see how they do instead of stooping to their level and being clowntoss!

    yeah if there was one thing that stood out in the GSL it was mc's amazing high templar play.

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  • OlorinOlorin Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    For the record...I am not complaining about the removal b/c I think it "nerfs" protoss. They were already OP late game with colossi and HT's. The problem is...the way they are going about fixing it. Colossi are already the go to unit. This is only going to make them even more dominant (most likely.... it certainly doesn't make going HT more attractive). Like other people have already stated...I find colossi dreadfully boring and would much rather see them nerfed into the ground and force protoss to make HT's.

  • WhatWhat Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Yes!

    Oh.

    EDIT: What i'm saying here is, Protoss are fine. Even without instant storms, they'll be A-OK. Calm down.

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  • DragDrag Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Someday they'll realize that we've been playing Metalopolis and Scrap for a goddamn year already and get rid of them once and for all.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • SeguerSeguer Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    A protoss did anything this month so they must need to be nerfed.

    Haven't you heard, Walrus?

    Every single patch as nerfed Protoss so far. Except for maybe like... 1?

  • Bruce ForsythBruce Forsyth Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    What wrote: »
    EDIT: What i'm saying here is, Protoss are fine. Even without instant storms, they'll be A-OK. Calm down.

    Duld, it's not always about overall balance of the match-ups.

  • WhatWhat Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    What wrote: »
    EDIT: What i'm saying here is, Protoss are fine. Even without instant storms, they'll be A-OK. Calm down.

    Duld, it's not always about overall balance of the match-ups.

    I understand that, but I dont see why not allowing HT's to have insta-storm means they'll never be made. They still have options, it's just that said options arent overtly strong. I still want to see how this will affect high-level play.

    In summary Gnome, t0t

    HAHAYES.jpg
  • TheBogTheBog Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Today I was thinking why don't zerg use nydus worm like protoss use warpgate? i.e. get reinforcements into an attack nearly instantly instead of rallying them across the entire map

    Late to the party, but I felt the need to respond.

    Zerg doesn't use nydus worms to reinforce attacks because zerg doesn't attack. By the time nydus comes into play P and T are too entrenched. What are you gonna do.. run zerglings into their wall?.. try to tank their siege tank line with roaches trying to run up their ramp? Send waves of dudes into lines of bunkers? Get your dumb ass cut in half on their ramp by a FF and picked apart?

    The only time zerg attacks a base with non-mutas is a baneling bust (doesn't need worm at all), a roach rush (way too early for worm), or if you already won and have 36 ultras.

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  • wakkawawakkawa Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Lings and Banelings kill anything and everything.

  • Beef AvengerBeef Avenger Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    day9's batman voice

    yessss

  • Joe KJoe K Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Seguer wrote: »
    A protoss did anything this month so they must need to be nerfed.

    Haven't you heard, Walrus?

    Every single patch as nerfed Protoss so far. Except for maybe like... 1?

    well, the buildings got a slight boost in overall HP...

    but zealots got nerfed
    Initial VRs got nerfed vs. armored and buildings, but good lord, this was deserved.
    VRs got nerfed again with removal of flux vanes
    HTs got nerfed with removal of amulet
    observers got a slight boost.
    phoenixes got a pretty hefty boost.
    motherships got YAN.

    carriers are near useless.

    i don't know, HTs are an incredibly large, long investment, and they should be incredibly powerful units.

    i think that i'm beginning to agree with a bunch of people here, the OP bit of P is FF and Collosus, and they've nerfed everything but FF and collosus.

  • Hank_ScorpioHank_Scorpio Registered User
    edited March 2011
    What wrote: »
    What wrote: »
    EDIT: What i'm saying here is, Protoss are fine. Even without instant storms, they'll be A-OK. Calm down.

    Duld, it's not always about overall balance of the match-ups.

    I understand that, but I dont see why not allowing HT's to have insta-storm means they'll never be made. They still have options, it's just that said options arent overtly strong. I still want to see how this will affect high-level play.

    In summary Gnome, t0t

    The game done changed...

  • Beef AvengerBeef Avenger Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    so the blizzard version of tal darim altar added...

    *drum roll*

    DESTRUCTIBLE ROCKS

    Also they switched up shakuras so there's no longer back doors

  • Fizban140Fizban140 Registered User, __BANNED USERS
    edited March 2011
    For funday monday no one do all scvs? Because planetary fortress rush sounds awesome.

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  • His CorkinessHis Corkiness Registered User
    edited March 2011
    Fizban140 wrote: »
    For funday monday no one did all scvs?
    Nah that's a GSL-level strategy.

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