OK guys, I think I need to crowd source this. I'm having a lot of issues beating the local Cryx player with my circle army. We normally play 35 or 50 points, can you guys give me some tips and or lists that are good against Cryx, becuase honestly at this point I feel like there is pretty much nothing I can do. Thanks in advance.
Who are his/her casters, and what units does he/she play? What's your list like, for that matter? And what kind of playstyle and tactics are you facing?
susan on
2010 PAX DM Challenge Grand Champion 2011 PAX Warmachine/Hordes Champion
I mainly run Baulder and eKaya t4 lists, and he runs a bunch of different casters, but the ones I've been having issues with lately are Mortenebra, Goreshade, eGoreshade, Asphyxious, and Terminus. He seems to run either real jack heavy w/ units like the deathjack, stalkers, harrowers, seethers, and ripjaws. Or he can go completely the other way and run very jack light and focus on spamming out the Banes Thralls & Bane Knights as well as the supporting solos like, Tartarus and Gerlak.
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OtakuD00DCan I hit the exploding rocks?San DiegoRegistered Userregular
I mainly run Baulder and eKaya t4 lists, and he runs a bunch of different casters, but the ones I've been having issues with lately are Mortenebra, Goreshade, eGoreshade, Asphyxious, and Terminus. He seems to run either real jack heavy w/ units like the deathjack, stalkers, harrowers, seethers, and ripjaws. Or he can go completely the other way and run very jack light and focus on spamming out the Banes Thralls & Bane Knights as well as the supporting solos like, Tartarus and Gerlak.
Mortenebra: Ahahahaha oh god I can't help you there. Bring beasts?
eGoreshade: Druids. You want druids to block some of his nastier spells. The ability to deal with swarms of bane thralls. Cassius could be good here with a few well-placed Hellmouths, using a normal unit of Shifting Stones (As in, no UA. The UA gives them stealth, defeating the purpose of using them this way) as your Hellmouth targets.
Asphyxious: Druids. Some ranged troops to deal with arc nodes and low-def undead troops. If he bring Satyxis... Hope you have Ravagers and the like.
Tarminus: If he spams 30 Mechanithralls I can't really help you there. pKreuger, perhaps?
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General NemoThe Mighty ShameChurch for DogsRegistered Userregular
I mainly run Baulder and eKaya t4 lists, and he runs a bunch of different casters, but the ones I've been having issues with lately are Mortenebra, Goreshade, eGoreshade, Asphyxious, and Terminus. He seems to run either real jack heavy w/ units like the deathjack, stalkers, harrowers, seethers, and ripjaws. Or he can go completely the other way and run very jack light and focus on spamming out the Banes Thralls & Bane Knights as well as the supporting solos like, Tartarus and Gerlak.
Mortenebra: Ahahahaha oh god I can't help you there. Bring beasts?
eGoreshade: Druids. You want druids to block some of his nastier spells. The ability to deal with swarms of bane thralls. Cassius could be good here with a few well-placed Hellmouths, using a normal unit of Shifting Stones (As in, no UA. The UA gives them stealth, defeating the purpose of using them this way) as your Hellmouth targets.
Asphyxious: Druids. Some ranged troops to deal with arc nodes and low-def undead troops. If he bring Satyxis... Hope you have Ravagers and the like.
Tarminus: If he spams 30 Mechanithralls I can't really help you there. pKreuger, perhaps?
My brother has been swearing by Mohsar to fuck with Cryx, since out of ten players in his local meta 6 are Cryx players. Don't have his stats in front of me, but by going off the BattleCollege entry I can see that. Especially with those free sprays from Crevasse, that can chew through a bunch of infantry.
I mainly run Baulder and eKaya t4 lists, and he runs a bunch of different casters, but the ones I've been having issues with lately are Mortenebra, Goreshade, eGoreshade, Asphyxious, and Terminus. He seems to run either real jack heavy w/ units like the deathjack, stalkers, harrowers, seethers, and ripjaws. Or he can go completely the other way and run very jack light and focus on spamming out the Banes Thralls & Bane Knights as well as the supporting solos like, Tartarus and Gerlak.
Mortenebra: Ahahahaha oh god I can't help you there. Bring beasts?
eGoreshade: Druids. You want druids to block some of his nastier spells. The ability to deal with swarms of bane thralls. Cassius could be good here with a few well-placed Hellmouths, using a normal unit of Shifting Stones (As in, no UA. The UA gives them stealth, defeating the purpose of using them this way) as your Hellmouth targets.
Asphyxious: Druids. Some ranged troops to deal with arc nodes and low-def undead troops. If he bring Satyxis... Hope you have Ravagers and the like.
Tarminus: If he spams 30 Mechanithralls I can't really help you there. pKreuger, perhaps?
Yeah with eGoreshade psychic vampire murders the druids, but yeah I basically feel like all of his units just flat out counter everything I have.
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tzeentchlingDoctor of RocksOaklandRegistered Userregular
edited March 2011
Kromac's Bestial and the Woldwyrd's animus could take the place of the Druid's counter-magic, though both might require you to get somewhat close. A Baldur construct list might help against Bane spam, as they're not living so no Death Toll. Nyss Hunters or Bloodtrackers also outrange/out-threat-range Banes and have a good chance of killing them.
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OtakuD00DCan I hit the exploding rocks?San DiegoRegistered Userregular
edited March 2011
You can at least have counter-magic defend you from arc nodes until they enter his control area.
I kinda actually forgot about that ability. Well, hope you can kill his banes en masse before anything too bad happens. Gogo chain lightnin gand pKreuger!
Greetings, filthy beasts of meat and hair! I have lurked this board for years now but decided to post so I can help escalate things to further heights of slaughter and madness. A few inane words to introduce myself: I am a PP Press Ganger (amongst other things that we don't talk about, that's code for those who know). I started playing sometime between the Warmachine preview/presale at its first GenCon, and when the book actually came out in stores in Seattle (a bit before they shipped nationally). I was bribed into it by the original Steam Dogs, the first WM demo team/ playtester team. I think that was 2005? I also have painted miniatures since I was a teenager and have played most all the "big" minis games over the years, and have been a miniatures painter professionally (as in, paid all the bills that way w/o any other job, income, or roommate, very overrated sanity-snapping "career" actually). I play all the factions except Mercs and Cygnar but have been most dedicated to Cryx, and then also Skorne when Hordes was in the works.
Right now I am working on painting some Khador stuff for my signifigant other along with building her Tharn mob and also some of my Farrow backlog. So that's me.
I also wanted to point out, I often see the Bane Thrall UA being considered an auto-include with Terminus using certain builds. What some might consider to be redundant Tough access is actually often more like "double reinforced" Tough access. Normally one of the weaknesses T-Bone has, is that he has to clump up, and this can be your downfall (especially in certain scenarios). If you have the UA, you can flank with Banes or at least break up your frontage, still be Tough, and of course the REAL perk is that they get Rise, which means the ones that survive due to Tough can now activate normally rather than being knocked down and being worthless. That wins a lot of games. Also just having 3 more attacks with Bane Axes is worth a couple points just in itself. They aren't exactly a must-have but you will never, ever think "that was a sub-par use of points" once you have used them well.
Maan. Terminus lists. Just take no models with souls and you're fine! I find my Zaal Immortals list and my Legion beast-heavy stuff does fine, as well as eNemo jackswarms!
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OtakuD00DCan I hit the exploding rocks?San DiegoRegistered Userregular
edited April 2011
Back when Mk II started, my friend and one our best players, who has since taken a break from WM/H, would bust out Terminus with 30 mechanithralls and max Necrosurgeons.
So painful.
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admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
Back when Mk II started, my friend and one our best players, who has since taken a break from WM/H, would bust out Terminus with 30 mechanithralls and max Necrosurgeons.
So painful.
You know something's gone terribly wrong with you can say "pCaine" and "hard counter" in the same sentence.
OtakuD00DCan I hit the exploding rocks?San DiegoRegistered Userregular
edited April 2011
I've tried that. It doesn't work. You can only catch so much with his feat, then there's tough rolls. In a timed tournament it's very impractical.
Terminus can then just charge in, reap a ton of souls, and walk all over your flimsy army that was focused on taking down his horde, finding itself short on actual hitting power.
Caine is nothing near a counter for Terminus. It's a crapshoot at best (see what I did there) with you praying to Morrow that enough Tough rolls get failed and that it was a game-winning move, or else if you got enough thralls in Caine's CTRL to bother using his feat, you are about to get rolled if you didn't just win the game.
On the contrary, Caine just means Terminus needs to keep a handful of thralls back behind him to either bait a foolish attempt where Caine tries to feat on them, which results in Caine becoming a soul token, or else just rush forward and force the feat, which results in the same thing anyway. It's also super simple to just throw more at him than he can kill quickly, and if one thrall gets close enough (which the Caine player will not feel too threatened by and usually ignores), you just have to slam that thrall into him (super reliably easy to do) and his only defense, his high DEF stat, is worthless and he's done. I've managed to kill him with Termy's breath weapon after the POW 7 collateral damage...Caine is just that fragile. And this is against players who win Gen Con events, not people who shouldn't see it coming.
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admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
I've tried that. It doesn't work. You can only catch so much with his feat, then there's tough rolls. In a timed tournament it's very impractical.
Terminus can then just charge in, reap a ton of souls, and walk all over your flimsy army that was focused on taking down his horde, finding itself short on actual hitting power.
It's not that bad if you can feat turn 2 (18" down the board on turn one makes it not too hard) and teleport behind a terrain feature. Your army doesn't need to be anywhere near that.
If you're playing a center control scenario you're still pretty much boned, but in most everything else you should be able to (assuming very good positioning) pick apart his army long enough to force him into a crappy feat turn, then kill him (assuming you have Eiryss.)
So I finally played my first game of hordes, using the battle box sets. Good times! My friend and I didn't have much in the way of terrain, so we used some settlers hexagons to put things together. Forests for forests, clay for rough terrain, and mountains for impenetrable/LoS blocking stuff.
How in the blazes is Circle Orboros supposed to deal with Legion of Everblight? I'm hoping options open up when you get more casters or models, but in the battle boxes, my Legion seemed to do pretty well.
Battle Rep:
We started off on opposite sides of the table - I didn't really know what he could do, and vice versa. So he moved up about as far as he could with his 2 Argus's, placing Kaya behind them, with the Warpwolf just to the side of Kaya.
I moved Lylyth up 6 inches, and tagged the first Argus with her bow, boosting the attack roll. I connected (RAT 7 + 3d6 vs. Def 15 seemed pretty good), dealt a few damage, and then did the spike explosion spell for 3 fury. Since her bow's special ability lets her ignore range and LoS limitations, it auto-connected and dealt a few more damage, and on the d6 roll I tagged all of her other models. I dealt 3-ish damage to both arguses, 2 to the Warpwolf, and then boosted my damage roll against Kaya, dealing 7 damage that he transferred to the Warpwolf as well. I moved my Carnivean in front of Lylyth, shredders to the side, slapping the Shredders' +1 armor animus on Lylyth, the Carnivean, and the 2 forward Shredders. Spiky armor as well on the Carnivean.
On my friend's second turn, he was out of range for any charges or attacks (10-ish inches from the Carnivean, plus a few inches of which were through rough terrain, and I don't recall what the threat range on the Argus was, but the other two warbeasts would have been out of range). Instead, he fell back behind a rock wall that blocked movement + LoS, hoping to hide as well as possible and forcing the Warpwolf to regenerate.
My turn I swung to the side of the rock wall with Lylyth, again finding myself 11-12 inches from an Argus. Connected on a boosted attack roll, another explosion of spikes doing enough damage to kill an Argus after he transferred surplus damage off of Kaya. One of my shredders frenzied but missed another shredder, and then I ran three shredders up in front of Lylyth to screen her and planted the Carnivean nearby.
On his turn, he moved as far forward as he could with his remaining Argus, Warpwolf and Kaya. He couldn't charge with the Warpwolf, so ran it into pretty close proximity to my guys. The argus caught all three shredders and Lylyth in its spray, but only managed to connect against the forward shredder. Then Kaya moved up and almost killed that shredder (it was at 1 health left), floating 3-4 fury for transfers.
On my turn, I popped my feat, slid Lylyth around to shoot Kaya. Feat + boost = 4d6+7 on a ranged attack. Once i connected I hit her with parasite. Next I failed to hurt the Warpwolf with a charging shredder. Then I charged the Argus with the Carnivean and sprayed fire over it and Kaya. Kaya transferred and killed the Argus. Then I was able to move and attack Kaya with a pair of rabid shredders. (I figured I didn't have to charge since rabid already boosted their attack rolls, and they were inside range) At this point she was out of fury for transfers, and got eaten.
Rules question - does a charging Carnivean that makes a ranged attack use the spray template, or just hit the charged model?
So what should my friend have done?
Eyeless sight on all my models, plus pathfinder on most of them (and rabid giving Shredders pathfinder) meant the terrain was pretty useless in helping him hide from me. Eyeless sigh also directly counters one of Kaya's biggest strengths, granting stealth to her units, and Legion has it everywhere.
While he's a touch faster than I was, I could kite with Lylyth to get at least one 12" shot + spikesplosion, possibly 2 because she has that shoot & fall back option. Plus a 12" distance between us lets me attack without him being able to get into melee range. His only ranged options are on Kaya herself (and the Argus's, but those ranged attacks don't do damage - they just make my dudes easier to hit). Are Kaya's ranged attacks, even on a feat turn, really able to put out that much damage? It feels like if he moved up and attacked with her ranged + spirit fang, he'd only be able to kill one, perhaps two of my shredders, and then my Carni, shredders, and Lylyth would be able to get a charge + feat turn off in retaliation, doing a hell of a lot of damage.
In essence I'm confused, because Legion seems directly designed to counter Circle's advantages, and so I should get at least one free turn of shooting/spells off from Lylyth, plus the charge if he tries to move up and prevent her from running away, and that seems like a really huge advantage.
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OtakuD00DCan I hit the exploding rocks?San DiegoRegistered Userregular
edited April 2011
Yeah, Circle v Legion is a sore spot for me. We can come up with crazy ways to hide ourselves and bog the enemy down.
Legion don't give a flying fuck.
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admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
Rules question - does a charging Carnivean that makes a ranged attack use the spray template, or just hit the charged model?
Spray template aimed from the center of the Carnivean's base down the center of the target's.
In essence I'm confused, because Legion seems directly designed to counter Circle's advantages, and so I should get at least one free turn of shooting/spells off from Lylyth, plus the charge if he tries to move up and prevent her from running away, and that seems like a really huge advantage.
There's a general rule that applies nicely here: when something seems unbeatable, stop playing the Battle Boxes*. They are good ways to get introduced to the game, but they are not balanced in the slightest. Kaya, in particular, is straight-up awful. She used to be viable Battle Box caster who fell apart at normal game sizes, but then they nerfed the spell that made her a viable Battle Box caster.
*A twist on the usual rule of Warmachine: when something seems unbeatable, it isn't.
OtakuD00DCan I hit the exploding rocks?San DiegoRegistered Userregular
edited April 2011
Except, in general, Circle really is at a terrible disadvantage against Legion most of the time. Circle's good at making rules up. Legion's good at ignoring them.
At least Baldur's feat provides cover and an army of durable beasts. Don't ever bother relying on Stealth to fight off Legion lest the player actually focuses on troops. Never build a list that relies on forest generation and the hilarity that comes from it (Unless you're Morv.)
this sucks, because now I have to start a retribution army just for these
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OtakuD00DCan I hit the exploding rocks?San DiegoRegistered Userregular
edited April 2011
Save yourself the trouble and play Cygnar instead. You get something that's one POW less, has a decent melee weapon, and has a RAT of 7. It can also move and shoot. It can also boost.
It's called the Hunter.
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admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
OtakuD00DCan I hit the exploding rocks?San DiegoRegistered Userregular
edited April 2011
Light artillery's rarely worth it.
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admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
edited April 2011
Well... sure, but most artillery weapons would still be bad if you put them on a 'jack.
I dunno if it'll end up being viable in the long run -- it would need a buff like FFE or S&P (lol Mortars) to get there -- but I'd rather have three of those than a Hunter.
Save yourself the trouble and play Cygnar instead. You get something that's one POW less, has a decent melee weapon, and has a RAT of 7. It can also move and shoot. It can also boost.
It's called the Hunter.
Uhm, I already have like 200 points of Cygnar, but thanks for your advice that has nothing at all to do with what I like about that model
I guess
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OtakuD00DCan I hit the exploding rocks?San DiegoRegistered Userregular
edited April 2011
Seriously. That's all the Heavy Rifle is. It's a POW 7 Hunter. It's in the new NQ.
Oh, and it's 2 points. Not bad, I guess. Helps Ret focus their firepower in better ways.
Question: How well does the Reaper work with pSkarre, and Cryx in general? I've been playing Skarre heavy for a couple weeks now and I'm loving her, but I'm always finding myself just out of charge range to really bring the pain down on the bad guys. Would inclusion of a Reaper synergize well with her infantry, bringing a heavy in range for them to beat to death?
susan on
2010 PAX DM Challenge Grand Champion 2011 PAX Warmachine/Hordes Champion
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OtakuD00DCan I hit the exploding rocks?San DiegoRegistered Userregular
edited April 2011
If you can somehow get a good bead on an enemy 'Caster or other really important piece, go for it, especially since it can pull in equal-sized models in Mk II.
In Mk I, it could only reel in smaller-sized bases.
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tzeentchlingDoctor of RocksOaklandRegistered Userregular
edited April 2011
Reaper works decently well with pSkarre, assuming she can feed it (and with a Scarlock casting the Dark Ritual spell or whatever it's called that sac's a creature for focus, she can feed it relatively well). Withershadow would be a good combo too with the Reaper, to get a free Seether after hit+drag, at least at 50 points. Malice might be a really good option for pSkarre, actually - needs less focus and can hit things better, plus soul collection options and taking control of warjacks.
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admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
Question: How well does the Reaper work with pSkarre, and Cryx in general? I've been playing Skarre heavy for a couple weeks now and I'm loving her, but I'm always finding myself just out of charge range to really bring the pain down on the bad guys. Would inclusion of a Reaper synergize well with her infantry, bringing a heavy in range for them to beat to death?
If you can afford Malice he does the Reaper thing, except better, and he generates his own focus.
Question: How well does the Reaper work with pSkarre, and Cryx in general? I've been playing Skarre heavy for a couple weeks now and I'm loving her, but I'm always finding myself just out of charge range to really bring the pain down on the bad guys. Would inclusion of a Reaper synergize well with her infantry, bringing a heavy in range for them to beat to death?
If you can afford Malice he does the Reaper thing, except better, and he generates his own focus.
Interesting; never even considered Malice, probably because he's not in the Cryx book. What's his statline like, and what does he do?
susan on
2010 PAX DM Challenge Grand Champion 2011 PAX Warmachine/Hordes Champion
Based on the above, his harpoon is more powerful and accurate (+1 RAT and "additional POW" - presumably POW13 or 14), and replaces the helldriver with an open fist with an interesting ability. He's a soul taker, gains +1 Armour for each soul on him, and starts the game with a soul to begin with. He can spend these souls to boost, but also to possess warjacks hit by his melee attack (the site says "hit", so hopefully you don't have to bother trying to damage them in order for it to work), which causes the affected 'jack to make a full advance then a normal melee attack.
He's two points more than a Reaper, which IIRC puts him at 9. Considering that's what you'd pay for a Seether, I'd call that quite possibly worth it. 8" pull plus possession allows him to move forward, grab your opponent's Destroyer or Decimator, walk it into your lines, turn it to shoot at its own men and then have your Deathjack rip its guts out from behind. Voilá, one broken formation, and at far less risk to your own stuff. Off the top of my head, you could buff Malice silly if at all possible, get Gorman di Wulfe or your caster to chuck a smoke grenade/acid cloud in front of him to prevent most countercharges, and leave your other stuff happily out of range so you can feat and eat all the stuff that comes to kill Malice next turn.
Alternately, if you're using a range-heavy army you could get a lot of mileage out of using Malice to backstrike enemy warjacks for +2 to hit on your Leviathans. Shoot the jack with a Pistol Wraith to lock it down with Death Chill (because then it can't even turn around and shoot you back), put all your spare focus into the Leviathans and tear it apart with a flurry of POW15s. For added mileage, hit it with a Parasite (or similar) first.
Except, in general, Circle really is at a terrible disadvantage against Legion most of the time. Circle's good at making rules up. Legion's good at ignoring them.
At least Baldur's feat provides cover and an army of durable beasts. Don't ever bother relying on Stealth to fight off Legion lest the player actually focuses on troops. Never build a list that relies on forest generation and the hilarity that comes from it (Unless you're Morv.)
If only there was a caster for Circle that could... oh, I dunno...summon some sort of pillars even Legion couldn't shoot through. Maybe made out of a condiment?
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COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
Had my first game in my group's 15 point slow growth league. I've gotta say that Bloody Barnabus is fucked.
I was running
Grim Angus
EBDT
Axer
Impaler
he was running
Bloody Barnabus
Bull Snapper
2X Ironback Spitters
and a Croak hunter.
The game basically went turn 1, he throws down a bunch of swamp templates, uses submerge to hide in them. Turn two moves his entire list up into another one of Barnabus swamp templates which makes his units immune to ranged attacks and then popped feat, KD'd everything in my army and vomited acid onto Grim until he died.
Really wasn't happy about that one, Swamp pit is obscenely powerful in 15 point games as you can pretty much make your entire army immune to ranged, balanced at the higher levels point costs, but a real kick in the balls at low points. I should have been more aggressive with getting the EBDT up into Barnabus' face and forgetting to put the Impalers Animus kept me from fragging the Croak Hunter, which would have stopped Grim's ignominous assasination. But oh well we live and learn.
To balance that game, the universe granted me an excellent 2v2 match after that one, Kreoss Menoth and Grim Trollbloods vs Vlad & Butcher Khador. With a combination of clever use of terrain, questionable deployment on behalf of the Khador players, Grim and Kreoss' feat, we managed to take their armies apart piece by piece with a Devestator spending almost the entire game stuck in a forest in the middle of the table, because an Impaler kept slamming it back into the middle when it walked out.
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Who are his/her casters, and what units does he/she play? What's your list like, for that matter? And what kind of playstyle and tactics are you facing?
2011 PAX Warmachine/Hordes Champion
Mortenebra: Ahahahaha oh god I can't help you there. Bring beasts?
eGoreshade: Druids. You want druids to block some of his nastier spells. The ability to deal with swarms of bane thralls. Cassius could be good here with a few well-placed Hellmouths, using a normal unit of Shifting Stones (As in, no UA. The UA gives them stealth, defeating the purpose of using them this way) as your Hellmouth targets.
Asphyxious: Druids. Some ranged troops to deal with arc nodes and low-def undead troops. If he bring Satyxis... Hope you have Ravagers and the like.
Tarminus: If he spams 30 Mechanithralls I can't really help you there. pKreuger, perhaps?
His current list he's been working on:
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
Yeah with eGoreshade psychic vampire murders the druids, but yeah I basically feel like all of his units just flat out counter everything I have.
I kinda actually forgot about that ability. Well, hope you can kill his banes en masse before anything too bad happens. Gogo chain lightnin gand pKreuger!
Right now I am working on painting some Khador stuff for my signifigant other along with building her Tharn mob and also some of my Farrow backlog. So that's me.
I also wanted to point out, I often see the Bane Thrall UA being considered an auto-include with Terminus using certain builds. What some might consider to be redundant Tough access is actually often more like "double reinforced" Tough access. Normally one of the weaknesses T-Bone has, is that he has to clump up, and this can be your downfall (especially in certain scenarios). If you have the UA, you can flank with Banes or at least break up your frontage, still be Tough, and of course the REAL perk is that they get Rise, which means the ones that survive due to Tough can now activate normally rather than being knocked down and being worthless. That wins a lot of games. Also just having 3 more attacks with Bane Axes is worth a couple points just in itself. They aren't exactly a must-have but you will never, ever think "that was a sub-par use of points" once you have used them well.
So painful.
You know something's gone terribly wrong with you can say "pCaine" and "hard counter" in the same sentence.
Terminus can then just charge in, reap a ton of souls, and walk all over your flimsy army that was focused on taking down his horde, finding itself short on actual hitting power.
On the contrary, Caine just means Terminus needs to keep a handful of thralls back behind him to either bait a foolish attempt where Caine tries to feat on them, which results in Caine becoming a soul token, or else just rush forward and force the feat, which results in the same thing anyway. It's also super simple to just throw more at him than he can kill quickly, and if one thrall gets close enough (which the Caine player will not feel too threatened by and usually ignores), you just have to slam that thrall into him (super reliably easy to do) and his only defense, his high DEF stat, is worthless and he's done. I've managed to kill him with Termy's breath weapon after the POW 7 collateral damage...Caine is just that fragile. And this is against players who win Gen Con events, not people who shouldn't see it coming.
It's not that bad if you can feat turn 2 (18" down the board on turn one makes it not too hard) and teleport behind a terrain feature. Your army doesn't need to be anywhere near that.
If you're playing a center control scenario you're still pretty much boned, but in most everything else you should be able to (assuming very good positioning) pick apart his army long enough to force him into a crappy feat turn, then kill him (assuming you have Eiryss.)
Privateer Insider for 4-1-11 has the initial sculpt of the Celestial Fulcrum. It looks gorgeous.
Niiiice.
Will is a regular at my LGS. He's a cool guy.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
How in the blazes is Circle Orboros supposed to deal with Legion of Everblight? I'm hoping options open up when you get more casters or models, but in the battle boxes, my Legion seemed to do pretty well.
Battle Rep:
We started off on opposite sides of the table - I didn't really know what he could do, and vice versa. So he moved up about as far as he could with his 2 Argus's, placing Kaya behind them, with the Warpwolf just to the side of Kaya.
I moved Lylyth up 6 inches, and tagged the first Argus with her bow, boosting the attack roll. I connected (RAT 7 + 3d6 vs. Def 15 seemed pretty good), dealt a few damage, and then did the spike explosion spell for 3 fury. Since her bow's special ability lets her ignore range and LoS limitations, it auto-connected and dealt a few more damage, and on the d6 roll I tagged all of her other models. I dealt 3-ish damage to both arguses, 2 to the Warpwolf, and then boosted my damage roll against Kaya, dealing 7 damage that he transferred to the Warpwolf as well. I moved my Carnivean in front of Lylyth, shredders to the side, slapping the Shredders' +1 armor animus on Lylyth, the Carnivean, and the 2 forward Shredders. Spiky armor as well on the Carnivean.
On my friend's second turn, he was out of range for any charges or attacks (10-ish inches from the Carnivean, plus a few inches of which were through rough terrain, and I don't recall what the threat range on the Argus was, but the other two warbeasts would have been out of range). Instead, he fell back behind a rock wall that blocked movement + LoS, hoping to hide as well as possible and forcing the Warpwolf to regenerate.
My turn I swung to the side of the rock wall with Lylyth, again finding myself 11-12 inches from an Argus. Connected on a boosted attack roll, another explosion of spikes doing enough damage to kill an Argus after he transferred surplus damage off of Kaya. One of my shredders frenzied but missed another shredder, and then I ran three shredders up in front of Lylyth to screen her and planted the Carnivean nearby.
On his turn, he moved as far forward as he could with his remaining Argus, Warpwolf and Kaya. He couldn't charge with the Warpwolf, so ran it into pretty close proximity to my guys. The argus caught all three shredders and Lylyth in its spray, but only managed to connect against the forward shredder. Then Kaya moved up and almost killed that shredder (it was at 1 health left), floating 3-4 fury for transfers.
On my turn, I popped my feat, slid Lylyth around to shoot Kaya. Feat + boost = 4d6+7 on a ranged attack. Once i connected I hit her with parasite. Next I failed to hurt the Warpwolf with a charging shredder. Then I charged the Argus with the Carnivean and sprayed fire over it and Kaya. Kaya transferred and killed the Argus. Then I was able to move and attack Kaya with a pair of rabid shredders. (I figured I didn't have to charge since rabid already boosted their attack rolls, and they were inside range) At this point she was out of fury for transfers, and got eaten.
Rules question - does a charging Carnivean that makes a ranged attack use the spray template, or just hit the charged model?
So what should my friend have done?
Eyeless sight on all my models, plus pathfinder on most of them (and rabid giving Shredders pathfinder) meant the terrain was pretty useless in helping him hide from me. Eyeless sigh also directly counters one of Kaya's biggest strengths, granting stealth to her units, and Legion has it everywhere.
While he's a touch faster than I was, I could kite with Lylyth to get at least one 12" shot + spikesplosion, possibly 2 because she has that shoot & fall back option. Plus a 12" distance between us lets me attack without him being able to get into melee range. His only ranged options are on Kaya herself (and the Argus's, but those ranged attacks don't do damage - they just make my dudes easier to hit). Are Kaya's ranged attacks, even on a feat turn, really able to put out that much damage? It feels like if he moved up and attacked with her ranged + spirit fang, he'd only be able to kill one, perhaps two of my shredders, and then my Carni, shredders, and Lylyth would be able to get a charge + feat turn off in retaliation, doing a hell of a lot of damage.
In essence I'm confused, because Legion seems directly designed to counter Circle's advantages, and so I should get at least one free turn of shooting/spells off from Lylyth, plus the charge if he tries to move up and prevent her from running away, and that seems like a really huge advantage.
Legion don't give a flying fuck.
Spray template aimed from the center of the Carnivean's base down the center of the target's.
There's a general rule that applies nicely here: when something seems unbeatable, stop playing the Battle Boxes*. They are good ways to get introduced to the game, but they are not balanced in the slightest. Kaya, in particular, is straight-up awful. She used to be viable Battle Box caster who fell apart at normal game sizes, but then they nerfed the spell that made her a viable Battle Box caster.
*A twist on the usual rule of Warmachine: when something seems unbeatable, it isn't.
At least Baldur's feat provides cover and an army of durable beasts. Don't ever bother relying on Stealth to fight off Legion lest the player actually focuses on troops. Never build a list that relies on forest generation and the hilarity that comes from it (Unless you're Morv.)
this sucks, because now I have to start a retribution army just for these
It's called the Hunter.
I dunno if it'll end up being viable in the long run -- it would need a buff like FFE or S&P (lol Mortars) to get there -- but I'd rather have three of those than a Hunter.
Uhm, I already have like 200 points of Cygnar, but thanks for your advice that has nothing at all to do with what I like about that model
I guess
Oh, and it's 2 points. Not bad, I guess. Helps Ret focus their firepower in better ways.
(EDIT: BAAH I meant Hunter. Not charger.)
2011 PAX Warmachine/Hordes Champion
In Mk I, it could only reel in smaller-sized bases.
If you can afford Malice he does the Reaper thing, except better, and he generates his own focus.
Interesting; never even considered Malice, probably because he's not in the Cryx book. What's his statline like, and what does he do?
2011 PAX Warmachine/Hordes Champion
http://battlecollege.wikispaces.com/mkiimalice
Based on the above, his harpoon is more powerful and accurate (+1 RAT and "additional POW" - presumably POW13 or 14), and replaces the helldriver with an open fist with an interesting ability. He's a soul taker, gains +1 Armour for each soul on him, and starts the game with a soul to begin with. He can spend these souls to boost, but also to possess warjacks hit by his melee attack (the site says "hit", so hopefully you don't have to bother trying to damage them in order for it to work), which causes the affected 'jack to make a full advance then a normal melee attack.
He's two points more than a Reaper, which IIRC puts him at 9. Considering that's what you'd pay for a Seether, I'd call that quite possibly worth it. 8" pull plus possession allows him to move forward, grab your opponent's Destroyer or Decimator, walk it into your lines, turn it to shoot at its own men and then have your Deathjack rip its guts out from behind. Voilá, one broken formation, and at far less risk to your own stuff. Off the top of my head, you could buff Malice silly if at all possible, get Gorman di Wulfe or your caster to chuck a smoke grenade/acid cloud in front of him to prevent most countercharges, and leave your other stuff happily out of range so you can feat and eat all the stuff that comes to kill Malice next turn.
Alternately, if you're using a range-heavy army you could get a lot of mileage out of using Malice to backstrike enemy warjacks for +2 to hit on your Leviathans. Shoot the jack with a Pistol Wraith to lock it down with Death Chill (because then it can't even turn around and shoot you back), put all your spare focus into the Leviathans and tear it apart with a flurry of POW15s. For added mileage, hit it with a Parasite (or similar) first.
Damn. I want Malice myself now.
If only there was a caster for Circle that could... oh, I dunno...summon some sort of pillars even Legion couldn't shoot through. Maybe made out of a condiment?
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I was running
Grim Angus
EBDT
Axer
Impaler
he was running
Bloody Barnabus
Bull Snapper
2X Ironback Spitters
and a Croak hunter.
The game basically went turn 1, he throws down a bunch of swamp templates, uses submerge to hide in them. Turn two moves his entire list up into another one of Barnabus swamp templates which makes his units immune to ranged attacks and then popped feat, KD'd everything in my army and vomited acid onto Grim until he died.
Really wasn't happy about that one, Swamp pit is obscenely powerful in 15 point games as you can pretty much make your entire army immune to ranged, balanced at the higher levels point costs, but a real kick in the balls at low points. I should have been more aggressive with getting the EBDT up into Barnabus' face and forgetting to put the Impalers Animus kept me from fragging the Croak Hunter, which would have stopped Grim's ignominous assasination. But oh well we live and learn.
To balance that game, the universe granted me an excellent 2v2 match after that one, Kreoss Menoth and Grim Trollbloods vs Vlad & Butcher Khador. With a combination of clever use of terrain, questionable deployment on behalf of the Khador players, Grim and Kreoss' feat, we managed to take their armies apart piece by piece with a Devestator spending almost the entire game stuck in a forest in the middle of the table, because an Impaler kept slamming it back into the middle when it walked out.
Yeah, I know. I knew that a week ago. I think it works well with Ravyn, who I'd like to do as my first caster, so I'd like to have one.
And, it's the coolest fucking weapon crew.