But yes, Robertson (and other attention whores like him) have made a living out of saying things that within any other context would get him either booted, laughed out of the room, or (depending on setting) arrested for incitement.
Oh, there are plenty of "gays go against natural law/evolution" secular bullshitters around.
The assertion that a sizable faction of homophobic secular activists exist and use evolutionary biology as their rallying point is so dubious that I'm going to have to ask for citation.
Especially when anyone who even briefly looks into homosexuality from an evolutionary or natural perspective would find it impossible to not come across the fact that homosexual behavior has been observed over and over in the wild.
Back to the Judge who ruled against Prop 8. I thought it was disclosed before the trial started that he was gay. I know for sure that someone here mentioned it long ago that he was a homosexual, so how could this all of a sudden be something new to anyone?
I think it's kind of hard to argue that the 'Gay == Bad' secular crowd or the 'eww gays are icky' non-churchy machismo crowd aren't coming from a religious origin when the social norms arise from the historically dominant majority religion.
It's like saying Christmas isn't a religious holiday because you're personally an atheist and are mostly in it for Santa and free shit - that doesn't mean it's not rooted in religion. 'No homo' frat guy is the same deal, only more ciruitous and with bigotry instead of a jolly fat guy.
That's why only Christian-majority nations have a poor view of homosexuality. Oh, wait.
Homosexuality is a lot more about misogyny than it is about Exodus; that's why homophobes seem to forget lesbians exist half the time, and why it's considered hot to watch two women having sex but disgusting to watch two men.
it may be hot to watch lesbians make out but I don't think they're any more accepted than gay men are
it may be hot to watch lesbians make out but I don't think they're any more accepted than gay men are
Did you not just catch the contradiction there?
What contradiction? That watching two people who you are sexually attracted to do sexual things is hot? Ya don't say!
Homophobic guys don't consider "butch" lesbians making out to be hot. They don't consider lesbian marriage to be okay. They just like watching hot chicks do sexy things. If it's with each other, cool. Because they still would like to fuck both of them.
Exactly. Sexual attraction, in the case of hot (or fake) lesbians can overcome the initial repulsion, but homophobic guys are just as opposed to lesbian rights. Hell, in Montana they burned down the house of a couple lesbians that tried to get the state to extend benefits to same-sex partners.
1) When the bigots remember they exist. "Gays spread AIDS!" "Lesbians have a lower rate of all STDs than hets do." "Durrrrrrrrr."
2) Same-gender sex and sexual advances are more accepted among women than among men, because chicks are hot whereas a guy might try to ass-fuck you OMG OMG OMG.
(And yes, I'm directly aware of how quickly 'whoa, hot' turns to 'you fucking dyke' when it becomes clear that lesbian = not interested in a threesome.)
Now, of course it's true that a lot of religious types root their misogyny in part in religion. But that's just one more path to "getting fucked is for chicks".
mythago on
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Doesn't seem to contradict. Someone can think it's hot to see lesbians make out while finding it unacceptable. I believe this is the problem with the closeted right-wingers who crusade against homosexuality while blowing an escort. Hot an unacceptable.
smeej on
IT'S A SAD THING THAT YOUR ADVENTURES HAVE ENDED HERE!!
2) Same-gender sex and sexual advances are more accepted among women than among men, because chicks are hot whereas a guy might try to ass-fuck you OMG OMG OMG.
...
Now, of course it's true that a lot of religious types root their misogyny in part in religion. But that's just one more path to "getting fucked is for chicks".
I don't know, I'm pretty sure that a guy offering to suck another guy's cock is going to get much the same reaction, despite the fact that aside from a bit of stubble it's basically the same as head from a girl.
Exactly. Sexual attraction, in the case of hot (or fake) lesbians can overcome the initial repulsion, but homophobic guys are just as opposed to lesbian rights. Hell, in Montana they burned down the house of a couple lesbians that tried to get the state to extend benefits to same-sex partners.
Hey thanks for the info, but really, I've had straight guys get pissed off and scream at me when they found out "Your girlfriend is hot" didn't mean "....so why don't you join us", so I'm aware of the problem. Funnily though, my bi male friends don't get the same reaction from women, where there's an initial "Whoa, you're not...." followed by anger when they don't then want the interested female to join them.
And again: it's sexism. There's no "initial repulsion" because they don't think about females as people, so when they think "homosexual" they think "male", and they don't see girl-girl sex as any threat because women are always the fuckee, whereas a homo might do to you what ought properly to be done to women.
God is optional in this mindset, but not required.
mythago on
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Exactly. Sexual attraction, in the case of hot (or fake) lesbians can overcome the initial repulsion, but homophobic guys are just as opposed to lesbian rights. Hell, in Montana they burned down the house of a couple lesbians that tried to get the state to extend benefits to same-sex partners.
Hey thanks for the info, but really, I've had straight guys get pissed off and scream at me when they found out "Your girlfriend is hot" didn't mean "....so why don't you join us", so I'm aware of the problem. Funnily though, my bi male friends don't get the same reaction from women, where there's an initial "Whoa, you're not...." followed by anger when they don't then want the interested female to join them.
And again: it's sexism. There's no "initial repulsion" because they don't think about females as people, so when they think "homosexual" they think "male", and they don't see girl-girl sex as any threat because women are always the fuckee, whereas a homo might do to you what ought properly to be done to women.
God is optional in this mindset, but not required.
Meh. I agree that secular homophobia is perfectly possible, but I just disagree that it must be rooted in misogyny (though obviously yes, it can).
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
I think it's kind of hard to argue that the 'Gay == Bad' secular crowd or the 'eww gays are icky' non-churchy machismo crowd aren't coming from a religious origin when the social norms arise from the historically dominant majority religion.
It's like saying Christmas isn't a religious holiday because you're personally an atheist and are mostly in it for Santa and free shit - that doesn't mean it's not rooted in religion. 'No homo' frat guy is the same deal, only more ciruitous and with bigotry instead of a jolly fat guy.
That's why only Christian-majority nations have a poor view of homosexuality. Oh, wait.
Homosexuality is a lot more about misogyny than it is about Exodus; that's why homophobes seem to forget lesbians exist half the time, and why it's considered hot to watch two women having sex but disgusting to watch two men.
Yes, but in nations and subcultures where homosexuality (or hell, anything outside cismale/cisfemale relationships) is frowned upon, the misogyny is generally supported by religious frameworks.
There are a handful of secular homophobic societies, but they're far outnumbered by their religious counterparts, and generally are relatively less oppressive in their expression of such phobia.
The assertion that a sizable faction of homophobic secular activists exist and use evolutionary biology as their rallying point is so dubious that I'm going to have to ask for citation.
You want me to provide a citation for something you made up and put in my mouth? Huhwhazza?
If what you're actually asking is "Please provide examples of homophobic secular activists whose arguments do not rest on religion," here's a couple off the top of my head: David Blankenhorn, who was the star witness in the Proposition 8 federal trial, and his Institute for American Values. The State of California, defending Proposition 8 by arguing that it had a legitimate (that is: secular) interest in Prop 8. Less well-known: every bozo you've ever talked to who things gays are "gross" or "would be OK if they just didn't flaunt it so much".
I find this humorous given that you seem unable to distinguish "religion" from "a particular brand of socially-conservative Christianity."
On cross-examination by David Boies, Blankenhorn stated that marriage's "rule of two people" is not violated by polygamy, because "Even in instances of a man engaging in polygamous marriage, each marriage is separate. He — one man marries one woman."[8] During questioning, Blankenhorn stated "I believe that adopting same-sex marriage would be likely to improve the well-being of gay and lesbian households and their children."[9] In his decision filed on August 4, 2010, Judge Vaughn Walker ruled that Blankenhorn was not qualified as an expert witness, and that his testimony was unreliable and should be given "essentially no weight."[10]
Have I missed something?
Perhaps a better example would be the USSR, which had ostensibly abandoned religion but wanted to make sure good little workers were still being bred by recriminalizing homosexuality.
Tangent: the tendency for "black culture" to hate on homosexuals appears, at least to me, to be a combination of religion and the time-tested nature of people always needing someone else to look down on. "Sure I live in the ghetto, but at least I'm not a (insert slur here)." Of course I could be wrong.
This might be chicken/egg, but a lot of culture created by/aimed at young black males is incredibly homophobic. The rap community might even be more culturally insular than gamers.
Homosexuals have been persecuted at various times for a lot of different reasons, a lot of them not having to do with religion. The top reason for gay persecution in the US over the decades was probably more "bucking gender norms and social norms" rather than "OMG that is so sinful."
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KalTorakOne way or another, they all end up inthe Undercity.Registered Userregular
Homosexuals have been persecuted at various times for a lot of different reasons, a lot of them not having to do with religion. The top reason for gay persecution in the US over the decades was probably more "bucking gender norms and social norms" rather than "OMG that is so sinful."
Probably that's the underlying reason (and why they latch onto anti-homosexual religious passages while ignoring other arbitrary rules); religion does make it a lot easier to live with yourself after treating other people like scum though - God hates them too, so you don't have to feel bad about yourself.
Right, yes. Plus, you can blame groups you already dislike, like those filthy working class immigrants, for their DEVIANT SEXUAL WAYS and then use it as an excuse to persecute them. These days there's this sense that "gay" is synonymous with "urban middle-class white man", but that wasn't always the case.
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
Homosexuals have been persecuted at various times for a lot of different reasons, a lot of them not having to do with religion. The top reason for gay persecution in the US over the decades was probably more "bucking gender norms and social norms" rather than "OMG that is so sinful."
Probably that's the underlying reason (and why they latch onto anti-homosexual religious passages while ignoring other arbitrary rules); religion does make it a lot easier to live with yourself after treating other people like scum though - God hates them too, so you don't have to feel bad about yourself.
It goes back to the old "It's not religion that's evil, just people who use it to rationalize evil," chestnut. Which I think is a total crock, as
A) Who are you to arbitrate whose interpretation of religious texts is correct?, and The Abrahamic texts are pretty horribly homophobic, not to mention misogynist and barbaric in their religious instruction.
And as far as "gender norms" go, history is fraught with periods where "abnormal" gender behavior has been taken completely as normal, such as ancient Greece, the Roman empire, and as recent as Renaissance and Victorian Europe.
Not at all remarkably, those periods in-between those eras are often teeming with stringent practice of mainstream religions.
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KalTorakOne way or another, they all end up inthe Undercity.Registered Userregular
edited April 2011
Well, I think religion making it easier to convince people to be evil brings it close enough to being de facto evil as makes no difference. It amplifies many many human prejudices, not just homophobia.
I'm sure they're out there, but you don't see very many Jewish groups marching against gays. Mainly just Christians and Muslims that seem to have the biggest problem.
Yeah, because the Renaissance painters certainly weren't interested in religion, as they drew cruxifiction scenes and Jesus.
The Greeks had gay sex all over the place, but were still "homophobic", by the standards of today. Sex between a 30 year old man and a beardless adolescent boy, that was cool. Sex between TWO 30 year old men? WEIRDOS!! The guy who was on the bottom was mocked because he was playing the "woman's part" (being penetrated). Plus you will find Greek philosophers who trotted out the old "man-sex is bad because it's not natural because it doesn't produce the babies" argument. I am pretty sure Plato himself used that one.
Of course, there were exceptions. Alexander the Great was obviously respected, even though he had a similarly aged partner. But in general, there were societal rules about sex, including gay sex, and if you disobeyed them you faced the social consequences (mockery). They didn't really have any objective basis, they didn't have any religious basis either--Zeus never said "Hey guys, don't do other mature men." It was a gender thing. "You are a Man if you do this. But not if you do that."
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
Meh. I agree that secular homophobia is perfectly possible, but I just disagree that it must be rooted in misogyny (though obviously yes, it can).
Must be? No. Almost always is? Yes. And of course it's true that a lot of religious traditions are very sexist.
The Abrahamic texts indeed are little more than long-winded instructions and justifications for complete and utter misogynistic bastardry. To the point where one really has to question the impetus of their origins.
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
Can we talk about actual gay rights news and not this endless, pointless bullshit people always bring up?
On that note, I can't believe people are actually burning other people's houses down over this shit. I mean, law-based oppression I get. It's impersonal. But that's alot of hate you gotta have to go fucking set someones house on fire.
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KalTorakOne way or another, they all end up inthe Undercity.Registered Userregular
Thank you for sharing your comments with McDonald's and for giving us an opportunity to share some information with you.
There's no room for violence under the Golden Arches. We strongly condemn the videotaped assault in one of our Baltimore franchised restaurants. Working with the authorities, we now have more facts, and we want to share our actions with you.
First and foremost, our thoughts are with the victim during this time.
Our franchisee is investigating the behavior and response of his employees. Action has been taken, and the crew member who made the video is no longer employed by his organization. Appropriate action regarding other employees will take place as warranted.
We want to reassure our customers that your neighborhood McDonald's is a safe, welcoming place for everyone. We share our customers' concern, and we are doing everything possible to make sure the right thing is done.
Again, thank you for taking the time to contact McDonald's.
Nicholas
McDonald's Customer Response Center
Huh, that's actually a well (pre?) formed letter from McDonald's. Have to give them a bit of praise for "we do not tolerate violence of any kind in our establishment" stance.
Can we talk about actual gay rights news and not this endless, pointless bullshit people always bring up?
On that note, I can't believe people are actually burning other people's houses down over this shit. I mean, law-based oppression I get. It's impersonal. But that's alot of hate you gotta have to go fucking set someones house on fire.
ORLY?! You are seriously surprised by this?
I hope you don't take offense, but wake up! Hell, in most states it is perfectly legal to fire a person for being homosexual!
At this point, no one should be surprised that terrible things happen to homosexuals and that way too many Americans find hating and acting on hate to be an appropriate response to fear. The attitudes that got Milk killed are still rampant and possibly even worse than the were at that time. Quite a few people seem to think we are much more tolerant of homosexuals than we actually are, possibly because of past Civil Rights actions or positive media portrayals, but really none of that did shit for the homosexual community in any substantive legal sense. Unfortunately, the attempts to achieve gay marriage seems to have spawned a popular backlash movement which has made society much more hostile towards homosexuals than was the norm over the previous couple of decades, at least from what I've seen.
Frankly what we are seeing is not so different than the kind of attacks that occurred against African Americans when they were starting to become successful members of society (the lynching period before the Civil Right movement). The growth in visibility and power of a minority, in this case homosexuals, is taken as a threat and treated as such.
Consider, for instance, the level of hate inherent in the Uganda horrors against homosexuals and the fact that the anti-gay movement and violence was inspired and fomented by crazy right wing American churches basically telling Ugandan's to kill the gay people, because they are evil.
Anyway you probably know all this already, I'm just surprised that you are surprised by the level of intolerance towards homosexuals in this country, given the anti-gay backlash movement's highly successful campaign to dehumanize and demonize non-heterosexuals.
Yes. I'm taking it you didn't actually follow the Prop 8 trial as it was going on.
1) That there is what you call cross-examination, where the lawyers from one side try to damage the testimony of the other side's witnesses. Go look at what Blankenhorn said on direct. There's also the fact that, pre-the-trial, Blankenhorn was not so much anti-gay as anti-lesbian-household; when he was hired as an expert witness suddenly he became more conservative, as he was being paid to be, and Boies jammed his prior inconsistent statements up his ass. (Again: cross-examination.)
2) Judge Walker did not rule "this guy is a lay witness". He in essence ruled that despite Prop 8 offering him up as their heavyweight "expert", the guy has all the expertise of a moldy bread roll and so the court couldn't rely on what he said as authoritative.
And, again, Blankenhorn did not base his testimony on God Said So as did some of the other Prop 8 witnesses.
Agree with you about the former Soviet Union though.
mythago on
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Can we talk about actual gay rights news and not this endless, pointless bullshit people always bring up?
On that note, I can't believe people are actually burning other people's houses down over this shit. I mean, law-based oppression I get. It's impersonal. But that's alot of hate you gotta have to go fucking set someones house on fire.
There was another story of someone burning the home of a lesbian couple last year and even though the person who did it is more than likely the same person in their neighborhood that is on record has having openly antagonized them on multiple occasions an investigation by local authorities has turned up no suspects and to add insult to injury the couples insurance company is screwing them over as well.
Where I work, when the story of the woman who was beaten at McDonalds showed up in the news my coworkers and a lot of our customers were of the mindset that it was a good thing that she got beat, because she deserved it for being a pervert AND they should have taken her outside and hung her.
My boyfriend and I live in a very quiet little neighborhood that's mostly a lot of old people and we've never had any trouble, but one died, one fell and is being moved to an assisted living, one couple that isn't older is divorcing making a total of three homes on my street that are for sale with one at the end that's always for sale. I lay awake at night and wonder sometimes what kind of people could move in. If I could come home from work one day and find my home burned down.
Can we talk about actual gay rights news and not this endless, pointless bullshit people always bring up?
On that note, I can't believe people are actually burning other people's houses down over this shit. I mean, law-based oppression I get. It's impersonal. But that's alot of hate you gotta have to go fucking set someones house on fire.
ORLY?! You are seriously surprised by this?
Totally. Where the heck do you live anyway? I wanna live there. I'm surprised they stopped at just burning down the barn.
This just in, people suck and are horrible. People are willing to kill or hurt another person based on their political view, religious preference, color of their skin, how much money they make, or what country they are from. People will kill one another for shits and giggles.
Is it really that hard then to believe that people would want to hurt another person based on their sexual preference?
This just in, people suck and are horrible. People are willing to kill or hurt another person based on their political view, religious preference, color of their skin, how much money they make, or what country they are from. People will kill one another for shits and giggles.
Is it really that hard then to believe that people would want to hurt another person based on their sexual preference?
The last couple paragraphs have some interesting perspectives on how homosexuals feel from different parts of the country; the Seattle gays don't really feel a need for a league to be too exclusive, while the Birmingham gays feel substantially different (unsurprisingly). But hey, if educated, childless taxpayers with substantial incomes want to move somewhere safe, Seattle is more than happy to welcome you! Birmingham doesn't need your money; they have the federal teat to suckle.
Can we talk about actual gay rights news and not this endless, pointless bullshit people always bring up?
On that note, I can't believe people are actually burning other people's houses down over this shit. I mean, law-based oppression I get. It's impersonal. But that's alot of hate you gotta have to go fucking set someones house on fire.
ORLY?! You are seriously surprised by this?
Totally. Where the heck do you live anyway? I wanna live there. I'm surprised they stopped at just burning down the barn.
Can we talk about actual gay rights news and not this endless, pointless bullshit people always bring up?
On that note, I can't believe people are actually burning other people's houses down over this shit. I mean, law-based oppression I get. It's impersonal. But that's alot of hate you gotta have to go fucking set someones house on fire.
ORLY?! You are seriously surprised by this?
Totally. Where the heck do you live anyway? I wanna live there. I'm surprised they stopped at just burning down the barn.
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Especially when anyone who even briefly looks into homosexuality from an evolutionary or natural perspective would find it impossible to not come across the fact that homosexual behavior has been observed over and over in the wild.
Back to the Judge who ruled against Prop 8. I thought it was disclosed before the trial started that he was gay. I know for sure that someone here mentioned it long ago that he was a homosexual, so how could this all of a sudden be something new to anyone?
it may be hot to watch lesbians make out but I don't think they're any more accepted than gay men are
Did you not just catch the contradiction there?
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What contradiction? That watching two people who you are sexually attracted to do sexual things is hot? Ya don't say!
Homophobic guys don't consider "butch" lesbians making out to be hot. They don't consider lesbian marriage to be okay. They just like watching hot chicks do sexy things. If it's with each other, cool. Because they still would like to fuck both of them.
Exactly. Sexual attraction, in the case of hot (or fake) lesbians can overcome the initial repulsion, but homophobic guys are just as opposed to lesbian rights. Hell, in Montana they burned down the house of a couple lesbians that tried to get the state to extend benefits to same-sex partners.
1) When the bigots remember they exist. "Gays spread AIDS!" "Lesbians have a lower rate of all STDs than hets do." "Durrrrrrrrr."
2) Same-gender sex and sexual advances are more accepted among women than among men, because chicks are hot whereas a guy might try to ass-fuck you OMG OMG OMG.
(And yes, I'm directly aware of how quickly 'whoa, hot' turns to 'you fucking dyke' when it becomes clear that lesbian = not interested in a threesome.)
Now, of course it's true that a lot of religious types root their misogyny in part in religion. But that's just one more path to "getting fucked is for chicks".
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I don't know, I'm pretty sure that a guy offering to suck another guy's cock is going to get much the same reaction, despite the fact that aside from a bit of stubble it's basically the same as head from a girl.
Hey thanks for the info, but really, I've had straight guys get pissed off and scream at me when they found out "Your girlfriend is hot" didn't mean "....so why don't you join us", so I'm aware of the problem. Funnily though, my bi male friends don't get the same reaction from women, where there's an initial "Whoa, you're not...." followed by anger when they don't then want the interested female to join them.
And again: it's sexism. There's no "initial repulsion" because they don't think about females as people, so when they think "homosexual" they think "male", and they don't see girl-girl sex as any threat because women are always the fuckee, whereas a homo might do to you what ought properly to be done to women.
God is optional in this mindset, but not required.
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Meh. I agree that secular homophobia is perfectly possible, but I just disagree that it must be rooted in misogyny (though obviously yes, it can).
Yes, but in nations and subcultures where homosexuality (or hell, anything outside cismale/cisfemale relationships) is frowned upon, the misogyny is generally supported by religious frameworks.
There are a handful of secular homophobic societies, but they're far outnumbered by their religious counterparts, and generally are relatively less oppressive in their expression of such phobia.
David Blankenhorn...TO THE WIKIS!
Have I missed something?
Perhaps a better example would be the USSR, which had ostensibly abandoned religion but wanted to make sure good little workers were still being bred by recriminalizing homosexuality.
Tangent: the tendency for "black culture" to hate on homosexuals appears, at least to me, to be a combination of religion and the time-tested nature of people always needing someone else to look down on. "Sure I live in the ghetto, but at least I'm not a (insert slur here)." Of course I could be wrong.
Probably that's the underlying reason (and why they latch onto anti-homosexual religious passages while ignoring other arbitrary rules); religion does make it a lot easier to live with yourself after treating other people like scum though - God hates them too, so you don't have to feel bad about yourself.
It goes back to the old "It's not religion that's evil, just people who use it to rationalize evil," chestnut. Which I think is a total crock, as
A) Who are you to arbitrate whose interpretation of religious texts is correct?, and
And as far as "gender norms" go, history is fraught with periods where "abnormal" gender behavior has been taken completely as normal, such as ancient Greece, the Roman empire, and as recent as Renaissance and Victorian Europe.
Not at all remarkably, those periods in-between those eras are often teeming with stringent practice of mainstream religions.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
Must be? No. Almost always is? Yes. And of course it's true that a lot of religious traditions are very sexist.
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The Greeks had gay sex all over the place, but were still "homophobic", by the standards of today. Sex between a 30 year old man and a beardless adolescent boy, that was cool. Sex between TWO 30 year old men? WEIRDOS!! The guy who was on the bottom was mocked because he was playing the "woman's part" (being penetrated). Plus you will find Greek philosophers who trotted out the old "man-sex is bad because it's not natural because it doesn't produce the babies" argument. I am pretty sure Plato himself used that one.
Of course, there were exceptions. Alexander the Great was obviously respected, even though he had a similarly aged partner. But in general, there were societal rules about sex, including gay sex, and if you disobeyed them you faced the social consequences (mockery). They didn't really have any objective basis, they didn't have any religious basis either--Zeus never said "Hey guys, don't do other mature men." It was a gender thing. "You are a Man if you do this. But not if you do that."
The Abrahamic texts indeed are little more than long-winded instructions and justifications for complete and utter misogynistic bastardry. To the point where one really has to question the impetus of their origins.
"Interest" is a far cry from "preoccupation with stringent practice."
Jesus didn't generally look all ripped and glistened until the Masters got a hold of him, eh? :winky:
On that note, I can't believe people are actually burning other people's houses down over this shit. I mean, law-based oppression I get. It's impersonal. But that's alot of hate you gotta have to go fucking set someones house on fire.
"Hey, we're just trying to let the people decide."
Yeah . . . . that's not how justice works, I'm afraid.
Thank you for sharing your comments with McDonald's and for giving us an opportunity to share some information with you.
There's no room for violence under the Golden Arches. We strongly condemn the videotaped assault in one of our Baltimore franchised restaurants. Working with the authorities, we now have more facts, and we want to share our actions with you.
First and foremost, our thoughts are with the victim during this time.
Our franchisee is investigating the behavior and response of his employees. Action has been taken, and the crew member who made the video is no longer employed by his organization. Appropriate action regarding other employees will take place as warranted.
We want to reassure our customers that your neighborhood McDonald's is a safe, welcoming place for everyone. We share our customers' concern, and we are doing everything possible to make sure the right thing is done.
Again, thank you for taking the time to contact McDonald's.
Nicholas
McDonald's Customer Response Center
PSN : Bolthorn
I hope you don't take offense, but wake up! Hell, in most states it is perfectly legal to fire a person for being homosexual!
At this point, no one should be surprised that terrible things happen to homosexuals and that way too many Americans find hating and acting on hate to be an appropriate response to fear. The attitudes that got Milk killed are still rampant and possibly even worse than the were at that time. Quite a few people seem to think we are much more tolerant of homosexuals than we actually are, possibly because of past Civil Rights actions or positive media portrayals, but really none of that did shit for the homosexual community in any substantive legal sense. Unfortunately, the attempts to achieve gay marriage seems to have spawned a popular backlash movement which has made society much more hostile towards homosexuals than was the norm over the previous couple of decades, at least from what I've seen.
Frankly what we are seeing is not so different than the kind of attacks that occurred against African Americans when they were starting to become successful members of society (the lynching period before the Civil Right movement). The growth in visibility and power of a minority, in this case homosexuals, is taken as a threat and treated as such.
Consider, for instance, the level of hate inherent in the Uganda horrors against homosexuals and the fact that the anti-gay movement and violence was inspired and fomented by crazy right wing American churches basically telling Ugandan's to kill the gay people, because they are evil.
Anyway you probably know all this already, I'm just surprised that you are surprised by the level of intolerance towards homosexuals in this country, given the anti-gay backlash movement's highly successful campaign to dehumanize and demonize non-heterosexuals.
Soooo......you haven't read them or anything, but atheism is even cooler if you put a feminist gloss on it?
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Yes. I'm taking it you didn't actually follow the Prop 8 trial as it was going on.
1) That there is what you call cross-examination, where the lawyers from one side try to damage the testimony of the other side's witnesses. Go look at what Blankenhorn said on direct. There's also the fact that, pre-the-trial, Blankenhorn was not so much anti-gay as anti-lesbian-household; when he was hired as an expert witness suddenly he became more conservative, as he was being paid to be, and Boies jammed his prior inconsistent statements up his ass. (Again: cross-examination.)
2) Judge Walker did not rule "this guy is a lay witness". He in essence ruled that despite Prop 8 offering him up as their heavyweight "expert", the guy has all the expertise of a moldy bread roll and so the court couldn't rely on what he said as authoritative.
And, again, Blankenhorn did not base his testimony on God Said So as did some of the other Prop 8 witnesses.
Agree with you about the former Soviet Union though.
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There was another story of someone burning the home of a lesbian couple last year and even though the person who did it is more than likely the same person in their neighborhood that is on record has having openly antagonized them on multiple occasions an investigation by local authorities has turned up no suspects and to add insult to injury the couples insurance company is screwing them over as well.
Where I work, when the story of the woman who was beaten at McDonalds showed up in the news my coworkers and a lot of our customers were of the mindset that it was a good thing that she got beat, because she deserved it for being a pervert AND they should have taken her outside and hung her.
My boyfriend and I live in a very quiet little neighborhood that's mostly a lot of old people and we've never had any trouble, but one died, one fell and is being moved to an assisted living, one couple that isn't older is divorcing making a total of three homes on my street that are for sale with one at the end that's always for sale. I lay awake at night and wonder sometimes what kind of people could move in. If I could come home from work one day and find my home burned down.
Totally. Where the heck do you live anyway? I wanna live there. I'm surprised they stopped at just burning down the barn.
Is it really that hard then to believe that people would want to hurt another person based on their sexual preference?
The last couple paragraphs have some interesting perspectives on how homosexuals feel from different parts of the country; the Seattle gays don't really feel a need for a league to be too exclusive, while the Birmingham gays feel substantially different (unsurprisingly). But hey, if educated, childless taxpayers with substantial incomes want to move somewhere safe, Seattle is more than happy to welcome you! Birmingham doesn't need your money; they have the federal teat to suckle.
Uh, Canada
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I'm on my way!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqQCyAQBgXY