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[TV] Game of Thrones, presented by HBO - NO BOOK DISCUSSION.

OrganichuOrganichu Registered User regular
edited June 2011 in Debate and/or Discourse
So, this dude...
346732.jpg

...George R.R. Martin, wrote a so-far unfinished series of books called A Song of Ice and Fire. We have a thread meant for discussion of those books; it is located here.
This thread is separate and apart from that thread.

This thread's purpose is to discuss, in alternating turns, the cinematography, direction, and writing of the show- and the sexual attractiveness of its major characters. We'll be using spoilers for pretty much every sensitive piece of information. This doesn't just mean 'John kills Jane'. If you consider it 'allusive', but not explicit, still spoiler it. This includes 'John really made me hate him after what he did this episode'. Clearly label your spoilers- either 'episode 2 thoughts' or 'John's character' or so on. Please be considerate, and recognize that your minor inconvenience encompasses one click, versus ruining someone's enjoyment of the show.

So...........
hbo-iphone.jpg

HBO is adapting this show. The expected plan is one season per book- meaning this season will roughly cover the book it corresponds to in the series (the first, Game of Thrones). It is still unclear whether the second season will exactly match the second book, and whether consistent branding will change the name, etc.

New episodes are Sunday evenings on HBO!

Organichu on
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Posts

  • TaximesTaximes Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    I'm so glad to finally see this come to fruition.

    Having started reading the series in 2008, this is the first newly released material I've had the chance to experience...

    So far, I think they're doing a great job with the show on its own merits, but it's definitely a different experience without the characters' inner monologues.

    Taximes on
  • MayGodHaveMercyMayGodHaveMercy Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Taximes wrote: »
    I'm so glad to finally see this come to fruition.

    Having started reading the series in 2008, this is the first newly released material I've had the chance to experience...

    So far, I think they're doing a great job with the show on its own merits, but it's definitely a different experience without the characters' inner monologues.

    I think they are handling the lack of said monologues rather well, so far. I think it's going to get vastly more difficult the further into it we get. I still hated the Cersei/Cat dialogue.

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  • BalefuegoBalefuego Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    ...why? I thought that scene was fantastic.

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  • MayGodHaveMercyMayGodHaveMercy Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Because it was vastly different from the book, mostly. And it almost came off like they were trying to make Cersei sympathetic. And basically fuck that lady.

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  • stevemarks44stevemarks44 Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Has anyone not read the books? I have but my roommate has not. I'm really digging the show so far but my roommate is watching with me and after the second episode she said she doesn't care anymore.

    She said the show puts way too much assumption that you've already read the books and it's confusing and that all these things that have to be explained to her should be explained in the show and not be explained by me.

    Just wondering if she just has poor taste or if this is the general consensus.

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  • Apothe0sisApothe0sis Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Well people also complain that the books are hard to follow or otherwise difficult to read. Those people are dumb.

    In the (now) Book thread, a couple of people have mentioned that their friends/loved ones/man servants are watching not having read the books and following well enough.

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  • YougottawannaYougottawanna Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Many of the positive reviews the show's gotten came from people who haven't read the books.

    Also, if you're watching it with someone who hasn't read the books, you should probably resist the temptation to elaborate on things not given screen time. It's probably hard.... I'm watching it with someone who has read the books, so I don't know.

    Yougottawanna on
  • Caveman PawsCaveman Paws Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    I'm just starting to read the books, I've been putting it off for months but the success of the show was the final straw. I love me some Sean Bean and it sounds like reading the books first will provide a bonus to enjoying the show. :)

    I tend to (enjoy) spoiling stories/shows for myself before watching them, but I have restrained myself somewhat where this series is concerned. So far it all sounds pretty good.
    Was the second episode a let down? If so how/why/really?

    Caveman Paws on
  • stevemarks44stevemarks44 Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Apothe0sis wrote: »
    Well people also complain that the books are hard to follow or otherwise difficult to read. Those people are dumb.

    That's not really my point though. Also I kind of resent that blanket statement because I'm perfectly adequate in the intelligence field and find the books hard to follow, even though I enjoy them.

    Her complaint isnt that the plotting is complex or hard to follow, her complaint is that there are disconnected scenes and things that seem to assume prior knowledge.

    I tend to agree with her to some degree, though since I've read them, it really isn't doing anything to damage my opinion of the show.

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  • stevemarks44stevemarks44 Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    I found the second episode to not be so much a let down but a realization.

    Much like Lord of the Rings, GoT isn't really an enclosed story, but rather a part of the story A Song of Fire and Ice (or whatever the word order of that title is).

    Without spoiling, obviously, episode 2 made me realize that the entirety of this season is really just one big long introduction to the world and the characters and their increasingly complicated relationships.

    I think if the show needs to improve in one area, it is the editing. Without the benefit of rotating narration, I think by and large I'm beginning to feel if I'm watching pieces of a movie a few scenes at a time. The narrative structure within each episode is pretty inconsistent, and thus far is only tied together by brief moments of Bran.

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  • OrganichuOrganichu Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    i think it's a little early to talk about total cohesion- it's a relatively short series, at 10 episodes, and there are mounds of character and geographical data to introduce, which is skewed heavily to the beginning of the show.

    Organichu on
  • Apothe0sisApothe0sis Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Apothe0sis wrote: »
    Well people also complain that the books are hard to follow or otherwise difficult to read. Those people are dumb.

    That's not really my point though. Also I kind of resent that blanket statement because I'm perfectly adequate in the intelligence field and find the books hard to follow, even though I enjoy them.

    Her complaint isnt that the plotting is complex or hard to follow, her complaint is that there are disconnected scenes and things that seem to assume prior knowledge.

    I tend to agree with her to some degree, though since I've read them, it really isn't doing anything to damage my opinion of the show.

    We are talking past each other.

    I would suggest that being sensitive to different narrative tropes and filmic shorthands is required. I don't think the connection between scenes or where everything fits in is particularly opaque. Plus it's doing the live-action equivalent of most fantasy/sci-fi stories where a bunch of stuff happens in the periphery/background that is basically a way to make the world seem different and begin to introduce the culture/world in question.

    Apothe0sis on
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  • PonyPony Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Nikolaj Coster-Waldau is absurdly sexy

    that is my opinion on this show

    Pony on
  • stevemarks44stevemarks44 Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Organichu wrote: »
    i think it's a little early to talk about total cohesion- it's a relatively short series, at 10 episodes, and there are mounds of character and geographical data to introduce, which is skewed heavily to the beginning of the show.

    Yeah, I am sure things will lighten up a bit exposition wise once we get to a nice part. Even so, this past episode felt very very narratively clunky. Like, if you asked me to do a summary of the plot of this episode, I really couldn't do it without just going down every character and listing what happens with them. Even heavily serialized shows tend to have smaller self-contained stories during the course of the single episode.

    That is not to say that Thrones won't, it just hasn't yet.

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  • stevemarks44stevemarks44 Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Apothe0sis wrote: »
    Apothe0sis wrote: »
    Well people also complain that the books are hard to follow or otherwise difficult to read. Those people are dumb.

    That's not really my point though. Also I kind of resent that blanket statement because I'm perfectly adequate in the intelligence field and find the books hard to follow, even though I enjoy them.

    Her complaint isnt that the plotting is complex or hard to follow, her complaint is that there are disconnected scenes and things that seem to assume prior knowledge.

    I tend to agree with her to some degree, though since I've read them, it really isn't doing anything to damage my opinion of the show.

    We are talking past each other.

    I would suggest that being sensitive to different narrative tropes and filmic shorthands is required. I don't think the connection between scenes or where everything fits in is particularly opaque. Plus it's doing the live-action equivalent of most fantasy/sci-fi stories where a bunch of stuff happens in the periphery/background that is basically a way to make the world seem different and begin to introduce the culture/world in question.

    Yeah, I get what you're saying. As someone above said, I guess she may have a better time if I resisted trying to extrapolate on things that they have yet to extrapolate on.

    I just suppose that it has to be pretty daunting to get so many characters and situations thrown at you and simultaneously be trying to figure out what you are supposed to be retaining and what is jut world-building.

    I remember feeling that way about Game of Thrones the book at first, so maybe the show will have a similar learning curve.

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  • Caveman PawsCaveman Paws Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    I'd be happy if the entire 1st season was used up just to establish who is who, the relationships, and ending
    with Ned leaving Winterfell to take up his new position as Hand.

    I've pictured Robert as a fat bearded Ray Stevenson (Titus from Rome), I hope who ever is cast in the role for the series looks similar.

    Caveman Paws on
  • OrganichuOrganichu Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Organichu wrote: »
    i think it's a little early to talk about total cohesion- it's a relatively short series, at 10 episodes, and there are mounds of character and geographical data to introduce, which is skewed heavily to the beginning of the show.

    Yeah, I am sure things will lighten up a bit exposition wise once we get to a nice part. Even so, this past episode felt very very narratively clunky. Like, if you asked me to do a summary of the plot of this episode, I really couldn't do it without just going down every character and listing what happens with them. Even heavily serialized shows tend to have smaller self-contained stories during the course of the single episode.

    That is not to say that Thrones won't, it just hasn't yet.

    i wouldn't say it feels chunky in general- i will say it feels a little disembodied, or lacking in episodic consistency.

    re: episodes 1 and 2
    i thought that episode 1 firmly established: ok, the king is asking eddard to come with him to the capitol, and jon wishes to join an order. bran is thrown. the people who 'lost' the kingdom are trying to win it back, from exile. then the second episode has them on this trip, but there are scant reminders of its import- or references to its origin. eddard and robert have their picnic, and eddard says goodbye to jon- but overall, if you only saw ep 1 once, a week ago, you might lose track of the nature of their mission- or what impels it.

    i feel lik eps 1 and 2 would work well as a 2 hour mega episode, but i am sympathetic to the complaints of series newcomers that the continuity is only weakly maintained across the installments.

    Organichu on
  • MayGodHaveMercyMayGodHaveMercy Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    I hope who ever is cast in the role for the series looks similar.

    Mark Addy?

    Am I missing something here?

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  • Laughin JudeLaughin Jude Registered User
    edited April 2011
    I think this'll definitely be the kind of series that benefits from being able to watch episodes back-to-back once it's out on DVD. The books are a lot the same way--I find I need to read the books that have come out before I read any new book in the series or I don't remember enough of what's going on. The whole experience will probably feel less disjointed when you can watch it over the course of a weekend instead of two or three months.

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  • Alucard6986Alucard6986 Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Have any of the uninitiated people having trouble watched other hbo shows like the wire or treme? I found them a bit daunting at first until I knew who everyone was and what everybody's story was about.

    It generally takes more than two episodes to get settled into something that has this much breadth.

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  • GospreyGosprey Registered User
    edited April 2011
    I found the second episode to not be so much a let down but a realization.

    Much like Lord of the Rings, GoT isn't really an enclosed story, but rather a part of the story A Song of Fire and Ice (or whatever the word order of that title is).

    Without spoiling, obviously, episode 2 made me realize that the entirety of this season is really just one big long introduction to the world and the characters and their increasingly complicated relationships.
    I had that same feeling and have spoilered myself with the coming series by tracking down synopses online, not having read the books.
    It really doesn't look like the series will have any real highpoint, but is an ongoing drama in the same way as a soap opera, as opposed to a being a cohesive build up to a conclusion.
    Just me, but I don't think I'll bother with the rest.

    Gosprey on
  • Alucard6986Alucard6986 Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    I don't know, I think every book has a pretty clear climax/resolution of its own that would translate into television besides maybe AFFC. There's always a battle or a major death or some kind of upheaval that changes the landscape of the power struggle. Everybody loves Storm of swords because
    It has all of those

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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Pokemon Champion (retired) Ann ArborRegistered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Liking this so far, but mostly blue dotting this thread.

    enlightenedbum on
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  • Casual EddyCasual Eddy Phallomancer Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Organichu wrote: »
    i think it's a little early to talk about total cohesion- it's a relatively short series, at 10 episodes, and there are mounds of character and geographical data to introduce, which is skewed heavily to the beginning of the show.

    Yeah, I am sure things will lighten up a bit exposition wise once we get to a nice part. Even so, this past episode felt very very narratively clunky. Like, if you asked me to do a summary of the plot of this episode, I really couldn't do it without just going down every character and listing what happens with them. Even heavily serialized shows tend to have smaller self-contained stories during the course of the single episode.

    That is not to say that Thrones won't, it just hasn't yet.

    you could level a similar criticism at Treme and to a lesser extent, the The Wire. but those are still very good shows. Treme in particular has an ensemble cast and describing each episode would be difficult, but it still works. It's just how an ensemble show works.

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    Casual Eddy: best poster 2014.
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    gotta update that stuff man
  • stevemarks44stevemarks44 Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Organichu wrote: »
    i think it's a little early to talk about total cohesion- it's a relatively short series, at 10 episodes, and there are mounds of character and geographical data to introduce, which is skewed heavily to the beginning of the show.

    Yeah, I am sure things will lighten up a bit exposition wise once we get to a nice part. Even so, this past episode felt very very narratively clunky. Like, if you asked me to do a summary of the plot of this episode, I really couldn't do it without just going down every character and listing what happens with them. Even heavily serialized shows tend to have smaller self-contained stories during the course of the single episode.

    That is not to say that Thrones won't, it just hasn't yet.

    you could level a similar criticism at Treme and to a lesser extent, the The Wire. but those are still very good shows. Treme in particular has an ensemble cast and describing each episode would be difficult, but it still works. It's just how an ensemble show works.

    I haven't watched Treme, but as far as the Wire is concerned, you still had some narrative through-line that carried episodes from start to finish, even with a large ensemble.

    "Kima watches the Towers with Herc and Carver" "Mcnulty deals with the fallout from last episode's shenanigans" "D starts to suspect something is up". Though you have great character moments and side-stories happening organically during these, they still are very straight-forward story beats that move things along.

    Again, I'm not damning GoT as it is only two episodes in. I am just saying I feel like the two episodes have felt very meandering to me. I understand the need to move the action along, but perhaps the show would benefit from trying to find a way to focus on a few particular characters an episode. Trying to juggle so many characters per episode seems like it is only going to lead to watered down development in the end.

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  • ShenShen Go placidly amid the noise and haste Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Critics have said that the first two episodes are the weakest, and that it really hits its stride by ep 4.

    I've been enjoying it so far, as have my friends who haven't read the books, so I'm quietly confident.

    Also thread needs more of this:

    a1ZES.gif

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  • ShadowenShadowen Snores in the morning Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    I like episode 2 better than I like episode 1, and most reviews say it gets better, so here we go.

    Also, best opening credits ever amirite?

    Shadowen on
  • edited April 2011
    In response to Gosprey
    I strongly disagree. I think the strenght of Martin's writings partially comes from the fact that the whole story is already mapped in his head. There are high points and pivotal moments in every book, and Game of Thrones is no exception

    Astargoth on
  • PonyPony Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Actually this thread needs more of this

    Pony on
  • devCharlesdevCharles Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    It's the kind of show that will get stronger when they don't have to introduce a crapload of main characters. Personally, I can't wait for the other two Baratheon brothers to show up eventually.

    In any case, they seem to have succeeded in making Cersei appropriately bitchy. Seriously, fuck that lady. I suppose she was raised that way, and circumstances have led to her thinking she had to act that way, but still. She is terrible.

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  • WMain00WMain00 Registered User
    edited April 2011
    Having read the first book, I have to say they've done extremely well creating the series adaptation, particularly adding in important plot sections that may have been missed otherwise (origin of Snow etc).

    WMain00 on
  • LibrarianLibrarian The face of liberal fascism Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    I think they really did a great job with the cast of the show and of course Peter Dinklage already owns and I like almost all the actors chosen for the major characters so far(not sold on Jon Snow yet and definitely don't like Kal Drogo).

    But my one problem so far is the Dothraki and their happy ethnic mix of "all the brown people". I know this has been commented on before, but seriously what were they thinking?

    Librarian on
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  • TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    That in a wide ranging group of slave owners, who base social standing on martial prowess, there's going to be a lot more diversity than on a feudal island? Easiest explanation I can think of.

    Tastyfish on
  • Mojo_JojoMojo_Jojo A lemon squeezed in the salty fist of Poseidon Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Shen wrote: »

    a1ZES.gif

    That bit was great. I didn't really find much of interest in the rest, but apparently it's just scene setting so I'll give it another episode at least. My girlfriend may have tapped out already though.

    Mojo_Jojo on
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  • PonyPony Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Tastyfish wrote: »
    That in a wide ranging group of slave owners, who base social standing on martial prowess, there's going to be a lot more diversity than on a feudal island? Easiest explanation I can think of.

    yeah the Dothraki don't seem big on like

    racial purity

    they're a culture more than an ethnic group

    i mean shit look at the woman the Khal chose as a wife

    i'm quite sure it crossed his mind she could produce pale little blond babies

    and he was like

    "whatever"

    so

    Pony on
  • BalefuegoBalefuego Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Because it was vastly different from the book, mostly. And it almost came off like they were trying to make Cersei sympathetic. And basically fuck that lady.

    This is silly to me, there are going to be additions and subtractions. Adaptations between media are never 1:1 because something that works in a book dosen't always work on screen and vice versa.

    My favorite scene in episode 2 was the Jaime/Jon scene and despite the fact that it was also a new scene not from the books, there was so much subtext going on in that conversation for people who have read them that I was blown away.

    Balefuego on
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  • enc0reenc0re Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Separate thread, nice. I haven't read the books and the other thread was getting too spoilerific for me. So I bailed. I appreciate everyone putting in the extra effort to keep this one clean of book discussion.

    enc0re on
  • SelnerSelner Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Just wanted to chime in and say how awesome Peter Dinklage is. A review I read a couple weeks ago said that he basically makes everything sound like a lost work of Shakespere, and that's basically spot on. I actually cheered when he slapped Joff.

    He's not at all what I pictured Tyrion to look like, but I think I like his version better.

    My only sort of complaint is the lack of character names. I almost feel like whenever a new person appears on screen, they should have a name over their head. There's a bunch of people running around who have not been named in the show, but book readers know their names (Joffery's brother and sister come to mind).

    And Ilyn Payne is not nearly as imposing as I pictured him. He should be taller or something. He just looked like a frumpy old man.

    Selner on
  • PonyPony Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    i get the feeling this show is gonna be a pretty big career builder for Peter Dinklage

    dude's already got some critical acclaim and awards under his belt, but he doesn't have a lot of mainstream recognition for his work and skill

    Pony on
  • TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Is there any news on when Series 2 starts filming, or are they still writing at the moment?
    Also wondering how they'll approach the more supernatural elements that come into the series after the end of book 1, CGI seems like it would clash quite a bit with the aesthetic they've built up but presumably animatronics and models are very expensive

    Tastyfish on
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