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Arrested for silently dancing at the Jefferson Memorial? You better believe it bud!

The_SpaniardThe_Spaniard It's never lupinesIrvine, CaliforniaRegistered User regular
edited June 2011 in Debate and/or Discourse
The First Amendment, you know that thing that Thomas Jefferson is responsible for? Yeah you don't get it at his memorial. Just watch the following video. Mind you there are a lot of things here that we don't know, it's only a 4ish minute clip, so just take it as it is and discuss. I'm sure we'll be hearing and learning more as the story unfolds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkHg3M6eUB8&feature=youtu.be
Shit has anybody informed Jefferson about what's happening at his memorial? Quick, to the Time Peter!

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSxedxHfwNSvlDCa3V5AAeAI_anZb0e6E6QwYBE5RQG02_03JJs
Uh-oh..

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  • ToxTox I kill threads he/himRegistered User regular
    edited May 2011
    It'd be nice if there was more information. That way we could, you know, have something to discuss.

    Tox on
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  • ToxTox I kill threads he/himRegistered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Oh hey look what one minute of googling gave me?

    A story about this!

    and another!

    Tox on
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  • The_SpaniardThe_Spaniard It's never lupines Irvine, CaliforniaRegistered User regular
    edited May 2011
    I was just posting the video so people could discuss what unfolded in it.

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  • ZombiemamboZombiemambo Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Thanks for spending valuable tax money on wasting time!

    Zombiemambo on
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  • ToxTox I kill threads he/himRegistered User regular
    edited May 2011
    I was just posting the video so people could discuss what unfolded in it.

    The video doesn't contain anything that warrants discussion. Some guy was at the Jefferson Memorial, doing something a cop didn't want him doing, and was arrested.

    That video has no context, though. When you say, "I'm sure we'll be hearing and learning more as the story unfolds" you imply this just happened, just now, and that there's not yet been any reporting done on it. There has. I typed in "jefferson memorial dancing arrest" and the entire first page was nothing but newssites reporting on this and similar instances (I posted the first two I looked at).

    Having a discussion about a video isn't a very good discussion. However, if we investigate the matter, look into what actually happened in this and other instances, we now have a substantive topic for debate and discussion (which is sort of the point of this board, to discuss things with some substance, not "lul look at this video I can't believe the cops did this let's talk about it."

    Tox on
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  • SchrodingerSchrodinger Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Did Kevin Bacon make an appearance?

    Schrodinger on
  • Solomaxwell6Solomaxwell6 Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    The article Tox posted said that dancing at the memorial is illegal, the couple was doing it as a form of protest, and there's going to be another one on Saturday. I have plans on Saturday, but I might stop by just to see what happens depending on how my schedule works out (not going to actively join in, I'm not willing to get arrested for something like this).

    Solomaxwell6 on
  • The_SpaniardThe_Spaniard It's never lupines Irvine, CaliforniaRegistered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Tox wrote: »
    I was just posting the video so people could discuss what unfolded in it.

    The video doesn't contain anything that warrants discussion. Some guy was at the Jefferson Memorial, doing something a cop didn't want him doing, and was arrested.

    That video has no context, though. When you say, "I'm sure we'll be hearing and learning more as the story unfolds" you imply this just happened, just now, and that there's not yet been any reporting done on it. There has. I typed in "jefferson memorial dancing arrest" and the entire first page was nothing but newssites reporting on this and similar instances (I posted the first two I looked at).

    Having a discussion about a video isn't a very good discussion. However, if we investigate the matter, look into what actually happened in this and other instances, we now have a substantive topic for debate and discussion (which is sort of the point of this board, to discuss things with some substance, not "lul look at this video I can't believe the cops did this let's talk about it."
    You are completely and utterly correct, I just misspoke. I didn't mean that I was posting the video and ignoring news stories, if it sounded that way, I just got linked to the video and made a thread about it.

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  • DrukDruk Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Kokesh again? Man that guy gets around.

    Ah, permits. When rights aren't exactly rights anymore.

    Druk on
  • ToxTox I kill threads he/himRegistered User regular
    edited May 2011
    You are completely and utterly correct, I misspoke.

    Fair enough. That said, I'm glad this got posted, because I find this whole series of events very, very interesting.

    I'm curious what laws they're citing to make dancing at a public park illegal. I mean...how does that even work? How does that not violate the first amendment? I mean, what, money counts as free expression, porn counts as free expression, but dancing, fuck that?

    I hole this is just DC cops being stupid, but I have a feeling it's more that they're locking down needlessly to prevent some bad thing that is actually just silly and never going to happen, in all likelihood.

    Do you know which event the video is showing? Is this the most recent one, where the group was listening to their ipods with headphones and dancing?

    Tox on
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  • zerg rushzerg rush Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    They got what they deserve.

    America is the land of the free, and we shouldn't have hooligans being disrespectful to our dear leader's monuments.

    Those people broke the law. They probably also hate freedom and liberty too. Damn terrorists.

    zerg rush on
  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Meh.

    As for the original ban on dancing, I'd say that it's not really protected expression and even if it was it's subject to reasonably time/place/manner restrictions. It's a fucking memorial, get your hipster bullshit on somewhere else (from the story, it sounds like some silly flash mob shit). And no, you can't go planking on the fucking Vietnam Veteran's Memorial, either. Fuck, people.

    Now, these new dancers are actually making a political statement, so oddly their expression probably would be protected. Of course, it'd still be subject to reasonable time/place/manner restrictions...and I'd say this counts. Sorry, the rest of the country should (in general) be able to enjoy the memorial in a grown-up atmosphere, take your bullshit elsewhere.

    EDIT: Also, get off my lawn.

    mcdermott on
  • ToxTox I kill threads he/himRegistered User regular
    edited May 2011
    zerg rush wrote: »
    They got what they deserve.

    America is the land of the free, and we shouldn't have hooligans being disrespectful to our dear leader's monuments.

    Those people broke the law. They probably also hate freedom and liberty too. Damn terrorists.

    Indeed, we need to protect our POE innocent citizens and our POE monuments from these evil people with POE morals.

    Tox on
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  • kyleh613kyleh613 Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Can't dance in one location = no freedom of speech anywhere. My first world problems. D:

    kyleh613 on
  • Solomaxwell6Solomaxwell6 Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Tox wrote: »
    I hole this is just DC cops being stupid, but I have a feeling it's more that they're locking down needlessly to prevent some bad thing that is actually just silly and never going to happen, in all likelihood.

    No, dancing is literally illegal in the memorials. It says so in the articles you posted. :P

    They ended up getting charged with "protesting without a permit" and released. I assume it's just a small fine.

    I'm on a date Saturday, but I'll see if she's willing to take a walk down to the Memorial and see what happens, because I want to know how the whole thing turns out without the limitations of online video.

    Solomaxwell6 on
  • ToxTox I kill threads he/himRegistered User regular
    edited May 2011
    mcdermott wrote: »
    Meh.

    As for the original ban on dancing, I'd say that it's not really protected expression and even if it was it's subject to reasonably time/place/manner restrictions. It's a fucking memorial, get your hipster bullshit on somewhere else (from the story, it sounds like some silly flash mob shit). And no, you can't go planking on the fucking Vietnam Veteran's Memorial, either. Fuck, people.

    Now, these new dancers are actually making a political statement, so oddly their expression probably would be protected. Of course, it'd still be subject to reasonable time/place/manner restrictions...and I'd say this counts. Sorry, the rest of the country should (in general) be able to enjoy the memorial in a grown-up atmosphere, take your bullshit elsewhere.

    EDIT: Also, get off my lawn.

    How do you determine when/where/what is and is not a reasonable time, place, or manner for a free citizen to express their constitutionally-protected opinion on publicly owned lands?

    Tox on
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  • DrukDruk Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Hey, the dude arrested was a former marine. He fought for your freedoms, let him have the freedom to dance!

    Druk on
  • The_SpaniardThe_Spaniard It's never lupines Irvine, CaliforniaRegistered User regular
    edited May 2011
    I'm curious, which part of police training teaches a cop that once they have a suspect on the ground the next step is to firmly grasp the throat with both hands clenched?

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  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Tox wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    Meh.

    As for the original ban on dancing, I'd say that it's not really protected expression and even if it was it's subject to reasonably time/place/manner restrictions. It's a fucking memorial, get your hipster bullshit on somewhere else (from the story, it sounds like some silly flash mob shit). And no, you can't go planking on the fucking Vietnam Veteran's Memorial, either. Fuck, people.

    Now, these new dancers are actually making a political statement, so oddly their expression probably would be protected. Of course, it'd still be subject to reasonable time/place/manner restrictions...and I'd say this counts. Sorry, the rest of the country should (in general) be able to enjoy the memorial in a grown-up atmosphere, take your bullshit elsewhere.

    EDIT: Also, get off my lawn.

    How do you determine when/where/what is and is not a reasonable time, place, or manner for a free citizen to express their constitutionally-protected opinion on publicly owned lands?

    If only we had people charged with making such decisions. Rulings, if you will.

    mcdermott on
  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Druk wrote: »
    Hey, the dude arrested was a former marine. He fought for your freedoms, let him have the freedom to dance!

    A Marine should know better.

    mcdermott on
  • DrukDruk Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    He wasn't exactly honorably discharged...

    Edit: I also like how when a marine is killing brown people, he's fighting for our freedom -- but when he's actually, you know...fighting for our freedom by standing up to silly laws, he's a "left wing brat" to quote a commenter on one of those articles.

    Druk on
  • ToxTox I kill threads he/himRegistered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Tox wrote: »
    I hole this is just DC cops being stupid, but I have a feeling it's more that they're locking down needlessly to prevent some bad thing that is actually just silly and never going to happen, in all likelihood.

    No, dancing is literally illegal in the memorials. It says so in the articles you posted. :P

    They ended up getting charged with "protesting without a permit" and released. I assume it's just a small fine.

    I'm on a date Saturday, but I'll see if she's willing to take a walk down to the Memorial and see what happens, because I want to know how the whole thing turns out without the limitations of online video.

    Alright, okay....DC being the "Shrine of a City" it is, I can....begrudgingly accept protesting without a permit as being punishable. I mean, if you look just at the rallies held in DC last year, yes those groups needed to be required to file paperwork, due to the magnitude of what they were doing. I don't feel 20 people should necessarily be held to the same stipulations, but you never know the type of impact a politically driven gathering can have. They could have drawn a crowd, they could have attracted dissenters, etc, etc, etc. So, yeah, like I said, I can accept that as the lesser of two evils.
    kyleh613 wrote: »
    Can't dance in one location = no freedom of speech anywhere. My first world problems. D:

    You're not helping.

    Tox on
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  • Solomaxwell6Solomaxwell6 Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Tox wrote: »
    Tox wrote: »
    I hole this is just DC cops being stupid, but I have a feeling it's more that they're locking down needlessly to prevent some bad thing that is actually just silly and never going to happen, in all likelihood.

    No, dancing is literally illegal in the memorials. It says so in the articles you posted. :P

    They ended up getting charged with "protesting without a permit" and released. I assume it's just a small fine.

    I'm on a date Saturday, but I'll see if she's willing to take a walk down to the Memorial and see what happens, because I want to know how the whole thing turns out without the limitations of online video.

    Alright, okay....DC being the "Shrine of a City" it is, I can....begrudgingly accept protesting without a permit as being punishable. I mean, if you look just at the rallies held in DC last year, yes those groups needed to be required to file paperwork, due to the magnitude of what they were doing. I don't feel 20 people should necessarily be held to the same stipulations, but you never know the type of impact a politically driven gathering can have. They could have drawn a crowd, they could have attracted dissenters, etc, etc, etc. So, yeah, like I said, I can accept that as the lesser of two evils.

    I definitely don't agree with it, but from a purely legal perspective, it's all understandable. And the protesters knew what they were getting into.

    Solomaxwell6 on
  • agoajagoaj Top Tier One FearRegistered User regular
    edited May 2011
    mcdermott wrote: »
    Druk wrote: »
    Hey, the dude arrested was a former marine. He fought for your freedoms, let him have the freedom to dance!

    A Marine should know better.

    PTSD, or Post traumatic stress dancing?

    agoaj on
    ujav5b9gwj1s.png
  • kyleh613kyleh613 Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Tox wrote: »
    You're not helping.

    There are far more important things to protest over. This is a pretty huge waste of time. It's no wonder our government has such screwed up priorities, our own citizens are just as bad. Instead of protesting and demanding to fix our countries crippling debt, health care or ending our pointless wars, we decide its a better use of our time to get arrested? Really?

    kyleh613 on
  • The_SpaniardThe_Spaniard It's never lupines Irvine, CaliforniaRegistered User regular
    edited May 2011
    kyleh613 wrote: »
    Tox wrote: »
    You're not helping.

    There are far more important things to protest over. This is a pretty huge waste of time.

    I wouldn't agree, and yes I think it is a slippery slope type thing. From the looks of it, some government type decided that memorials should be a place of silent contemplation and respectful remembrance, and as such banned dancing in these locations. What if they next decide that farting loudly in these echoy places is highly disrespectful and make that illegal. I don't want to get arrested for farting in public, I'm a really gassy guy and the last thing I need is to look like this when I travel to DC.

    1205262687_tbFrK-L.jpg

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  • ToxTox I kill threads he/himRegistered User regular
    edited May 2011
    kyleh613 wrote: »
    Tox wrote: »
    You're not helping.

    There are far more important things to protest over. This is a pretty huge waste of time.

    The original group's intention was simply to celebrate the birth of Jefferson. Likely they were also hoping to raise a bit of "first amendment" awareness, or some other, equally silly, libertarian ideal.

    That they got arrested for it adds a near-apropos layer of irony to the whole ordeal.

    I don't feel protesting any limitations on any constitutional right is a waste of time. Even if it's just an awareness effort, it's a fundamental thing. They've been told that not only do they not have the right to freely express themselves when and however they want, but that they can't even protest that limitation however they want.

    Yes, this is first world problems, but it's still problems, and it's fair to criticize the establishment for limiting the way people can and cannot freely and openly express themselves and protest.

    Tox on
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  • SniperGuySniperGuy SniperGuyGaming Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    So what happens if I go to the Lincoln memorial and do the macarena with my arms? Or a very slow and deliberate electric slide?

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  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    So what happens if I go to the Lincoln memorial and do the macarena with my arms? Or a very slow and deliberate electric slide?



    You will be shot. And rightly so.

    mcdermott on
  • kyleh613kyleh613 Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    So what happens if I go to the Lincoln memorial and do the macarena with my arms? Or a very slow and deliberate electric slide?

    Apparently you'll be thrown to the ground and arrested. You're allowed to do it outside the memorial though. The ban doesn't say that you can't sit on Lincolns lap though, so there's always that.

    kyleh613 on
  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Maybe we should all get together and do the Achey Breakey at the Holocaust Museum. That would be totally rad.

    mcdermott on
  • agoajagoaj Top Tier One FearRegistered User regular
    edited May 2011
    mcdermott wrote: »
    Maybe we should all get together and do the Achey Breakey at the Holocaust Museum. That would be totally rad.

    Now who wants wants to be the guy that breaks up the Hora at the holocaust museum?

    agoaj on
    ujav5b9gwj1s.png
  • DrukDruk Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    We could always wait until this marine guy dies and then picket his funeral without worrying about being arrested.

    Druk on
  • Solomaxwell6Solomaxwell6 Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    agoaj wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    Maybe we should all get together and do the Achey Breakey at the Holocaust Museum. That would be totally rad.

    Now who wants wants to be the guy that breaks up the Hora at the holocaust museum?

    I dunno. I'd see it as mocking. I'd ESPECIALLY want to break up the Hora.

    Solomaxwell6 on
  • SejarkiSejarki Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    This seems silly.

    I'd be far more interested though if they did something that wasn't dancing, but appeared dance-like. Like a martial arts kata, maybe they could practice tai chi.

    Sejarki on
  • TheBigEasyTheBigEasy Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    I'm curious, which part of police training teaches a cop that once they have a suspect on the ground the next step is to firmly grasp the throat with both hands clenched?

    I am curious as well. It's not like the suspect was actively resisting arrest or attacking the officer. So what gives?

    TheBigEasy on
  • Pi-r8Pi-r8 Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    TheBigEasy wrote: »
    I'm curious, which part of police training teaches a cop that once they have a suspect on the ground the next step is to firmly grasp the throat with both hands clenched?

    I am curious as well. It's not like the suspect was actively resisting arrest or attacking the officer. So what gives?

    They want to intimidate who might think of doing the same thing. Crush the protesters with fear before they get out of line.

    Pi-r8 on
  • mrt144mrt144 King of the Numbernames Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Park police are like the flunkies of policedom which is saying a lot.

    mrt144 on
  • ToxTox I kill threads he/himRegistered User regular
    edited May 2011
    mrt144 wrote: »
    Park police are like the flunkies of policedom which is saying a lot.

    I thought those were rentacops.

    Are park police better or worse than rentacops? Or just different?

    Tox on
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  • RichardTauberRichardTauber Kvlt Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    The giant Jefferson robot I was going to build must be redesigned to include no dance module!

    RichardTauber on
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