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[Canada] Politics of the Democratic Friedmanite Republic of the Government of Harper

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Posts

  • CorporateGoonCorporateGoon Registered User regular
    Robman wrote: »
    I do not understand this latest thing by Harper with Israel

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/harper-pays-homage-to-victims-of-nazi-massacre-in-greece/article2038917/

    I mean he might be trying to bait the NDP into supporting Palestine, so that he can portray them as a fringe lunatic terrorist loving group in the next election or something. Or he might just think that Israel are good people to back on the foreign stage right now.

    Or he might just be trying to increasingly isolate us internationally for whatever reason

    Endorsing the Greek governments austerity policies is another lose-lose situation. They are insanely unpopular both at home and abroad.

    Well, visiting that particular site in Greece was probably a suggestion by Dimitri Soudas. Harper needed someplace to do a photo op, and that was probably as good a spot as any.

    On Israel, it's fairly simple: Harper believes unflinching support of Israel will attract more voters than it will repel. And at the moment he's probably right. In the event that the government of Israel does something particularly odious, that could change, but as it is, the damage to Canada's international reputation on that particular front isn't sufficient for the average person to care.

  • psyck0psyck0 Registered User regular
    Once again, I don't think this is about attracting voters. I think Harper is a strong idealist and these are things he genuinely believes.

    Big Man in training.
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  • EntriechEntriech Registered User regular
    I'm afraid to think that Harper genuinely believes in anything besides the pursuit of power. It's easier to accept him as an opportunist than an ideologue.

    Gamecenter/Gamertag/Steam ID/PSN: Entriech
    Guild Wars 2: Entriech.3507 | Scythe Gearsnap, Phlork, Irenic
  • CorporateGoonCorporateGoon Registered User regular
    psyck0 wrote: »
    Once again, I don't think this is about attracting voters. I think Harper is a strong idealist and these are things he genuinely believes.

    I might accept that if the Tories hadn't sent out all those flyers saying people should vote for them because Ignatieff criticized Israel about something. Which is not to say that Harper is not a staunch supporter of Israel. I just think he's turned it up to 11 because it'll get him votes somewhere down the line.

  • CanadianWolverineCanadianWolverine Registered User regular
    Why would Harper care about votes from the electorate at this stage? He and his party has shown us quite well that enough people will believe them if they repeat a lie enough times, so much so that they ignore the damage done by them in the past year, let alone four, that in four or five years in the future when we have another election things he supported immediately after taking the reigns of a majority of seats will be ancient history as far as apparently apathetic and ignorant voters are concerned - when have we ever known but the most dedicated Canadians to retain ire over something political over many years. Is he instead doing this looking for support (aka MP votes) in the house of commons by doing this?

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  • shrykeshryke Registered User regular
    Or he's a boilerplate conservative, who's unilateral support of Israel is very well established.

    I mean, really people, it's not like Harper and his government have been known for their lack of contempt for non-white non-christian people (among many other things).

  • Disco11Disco11 Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Or he's a boilerplate conservative, who's unilateral support of Israel is very well established.

    I mean, really people, it's not like Harper and his government have been known for their lack of contempt for non-white non-christian people (among many other things).

    ummm last time I checked Israel is mostly composed of followers of the Jewish faith.


    gamertag: Canadianllama
  • shrykeshryke Registered User regular
    Disco11 wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Or he's a boilerplate conservative, who's unilateral support of Israel is very well established.

    I mean, really people, it's not like Harper and his government have been known for their lack of contempt for non-white non-christian people (among many other things).

    ummm last time I checked Israel is mostly composed of followers of the Jewish faith.

    Jews > Muslims



    I mean, really people, since when has "Conservatives support Israel" been surprising?

  • RobmanRobman Registered User regular
    So we are finally getting a glimpse of Harper's senate reform: term limits of 10 or 12 years, and elections.

    Now you might ask "How is Harper mandating elected Senators without going through Constitutional reform?" and the answer is very simple - they aren't real elections. They're more like a pseudo-election, where the provinces get to vote on the empty senate seats they wish to fill. The results of the vote are forwarded to the PMO, and Harper super duper promises to respect those votes when he appoints the Senators.

    The PMO has also said they can change the rules of the Senate like this without constitutional reform because they totally can yessir indeed.

  • Nova_CNova_C Sniff Sniff Snorf Yellowknife, NTRegistered User regular
    Well, he did appoint the senators that Alberta elected.

  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    Nova_C wrote: »
    Well, he did appoint the senators that Alberta elected.
    He did? I had heard the opposite :?

    But yeah, there's nothing wrong with a province voting for their own Senators and sending that recommendation to the PMO. There's also nothing good about it - the election and recommendation means jack shit, legally speaking. The PM can pick whoever he wants as Senator, including the person recommended (or more likely a party loyalist that will blindly rubber-stamp everything he wants and veto everything the opposition wants, the way he's been appointing them for the past five years).

    The real trick will be getting them to relinquish power after 10 or 12 years. Legally they have the job for life. He could make them sign a contract, but it would be meaningless because it would violate the Constitution. So basically we'd have to take them at their word that they'll willingly resign after their term is up... even if Harper and the CRAP are out of power by then and they'll be replaced by actual competent people.

    RichyFlag.gifsig.gif
  • oldmankenoldmanken Registered User regular
    So, he's expecting provinces to pay for elections which aren't actually legally binding and can be ignored? Yeah, I fully expect that to happen... :rolleyes:

  • RobmanRobman Registered User regular
    It's MAGIC MONEY! It's a lot like his TOUGH PRISONS for TOUGH CRIMINALS (despite crime rates plummeting year on year).

    I'm actually surprised that he hasn't mandated the provinces to pay for the F35 fighter jets.

  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    Robman wrote: »
    It's MAGIC MONEY! It's a lot like his TOUGH PRISONS for TOUGH CRIMINALS (despite crime rates plummeting year on year).

    I'm actually surprised that he hasn't mandated the provinces to pay for the F35 fighter jets.
    He's already expecting provinces to pay for his settling NAFTA lawsuits in favour of American companies rather than defending Canadian interests.

    RichyFlag.gifsig.gif
  • Nova_CNova_C Sniff Sniff Snorf Yellowknife, NTRegistered User regular
    oldmanken wrote: »
    So, he's expecting provinces to pay for elections which aren't actually legally binding and can be ignored? Yeah, I fully expect that to happen... :rolleyes:

    Again, Alberta has been having senate elections for a while. PMs have just been ignoring them.

    Richy, Harper appointed Alberta's senators in his first term. Ever since that first term I have no idea if Alberta has even elected any senators. Before that happened, I didn't even know Alberta elected senators. Supposedly it's on the ballot for federal elections, but I didn't see it in the election I voted in prior to that happening.

  • darkphoenix22darkphoenix22 Registered User
    Just visited Queen's Park during Question Period. The heckling, arguing, and interrupting disgusted me. It is demeaning to our democracy.

    Government is not a hockey game. It is a forum for consensus, debate, and discussion.

    I left after Christine Elliott used "tax and spend" for the 3rd time and quoted Dr. Phil.

  • darkphoenix22darkphoenix22 Registered User
    Rikushix wrote: »
    Goodale for Leader. I've met him. He's a good honest man who could easily rebuild the Liberal fortunes in the West.

    The NDP will do enough by themselves to help the Liberals rebuild the party in Quebec.

    BTW Goodale's Chief of Staff is teh awesome. ;)

    You know, I'd insist I would never, ever, ever vote for an MPP that used the word "teh" in all seriousness online, but then again, stranger things have happened. Why, the official leader of the opposition said #fail on national TV.

    At least, I don't quote Dr. Phil. In parliament.

    *shudders*

  • RobmanRobman Registered User regular
    An Ontario Tory candidate accidentally tweeted a picture of his wang ololol

    The regularly scheduled pre-election implosion of the Ontario Conservative Party seems right on track, as per usual

  • darkphoenix22darkphoenix22 Registered User
    Robman wrote: »
    An Ontario Tory candidate accidentally tweeted a picture of his wang ololol

    The regularly scheduled pre-election implosion of the Ontario Conservative Party seems right on track, as per usual

    Here's hoping they support "religious schools" again.

  • darkphoenix22darkphoenix22 Registered User
    The new Con platform: Free low-res pictures of our penises for all. It's how we'll pay for the corporate donations ...err... tax cuts.

  • Disco11Disco11 Registered User regular
    Robman wrote: »
    An Ontario Tory candidate accidentally tweeted a picture of his wang ololol

    The regularly scheduled pre-election implosion of the Ontario Conservative Party seems right on track, as per usual

    Here's hoping they support "religious schools" again.

    I really don't see what's wrong with people wanting to send their kids to a religious school. It also clears the way for parent's like myself make have school that don't teach any religion.


    gamertag: Canadianllama
  • darkphoenix22darkphoenix22 Registered User
    As long as those religious schools allow for Gay-Straight Alliances, they can teach all the religion they want. If they don't, well they are violating the Charter.

    Catholic schools: GSAs or public funding. Take your pick.

  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    Richy wrote: »
    Robman wrote: »
    It's MAGIC MONEY! It's a lot like his TOUGH PRISONS for TOUGH CRIMINALS (despite crime rates plummeting year on year).

    I'm actually surprised that he hasn't mandated the provinces to pay for the F35 fighter jets.
    He's already expecting provinces to pay for his settling NAFTA lawsuits in favour of American companies rather than defending Canadian interests.

    ololol small government trading power to the provinces.

    Spoiler:
  • psyck0psyck0 Registered User regular
    Disco11 wrote: »
    Robman wrote: »
    An Ontario Tory candidate accidentally tweeted a picture of his wang ololol

    The regularly scheduled pre-election implosion of the Ontario Conservative Party seems right on track, as per usual

    Here's hoping they support "religious schools" again.

    I really don't see what's wrong with people wanting to send their kids to a religious school. It also clears the way for parent's like myself make have school that don't teach any religion.

    Absolutely nothing, until the government is paying for it. I'm even OK with a generalized "religious studies" course or set of courses. It's a problem when the government is funding schools that specifically endorse one particular religion. Funding different schools that endorse different religions is not a solution because then we just get more segregation of people which leads to more bigotry and ignorance.

    Big Man in training.
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  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    My understanding of the Ontario Catholic school board is that it's not a government endorsement of that religion, but a recognition of Ontario's history.

    My understanding is that they're also some of the best schools in Ontario, so I'd be opposed to abolishing their funding. It would be doing a disservice to Ontario's youth. And don't say "we could balance it out by making the secular schools better". No. Start by making the secular schools better, then cut funding to the Catholic schools when there is an alternative of equal or better quality to send kids to.

    RichyFlag.gifsig.gif
  • Disco11Disco11 Registered User regular
    Richy wrote: »
    My understanding of the Ontario Catholic school board is that it's not a government endorsement of that religion, but a recognition of Ontario's history.

    My understanding is that they're also some of the best schools in Ontario, so I'd be opposed to abolishing their funding. It would be doing a disservice to Ontario's youth. And don't say "we could balance it out by making the secular schools better". No. Start by making the secular schools better, then cut funding to the Catholic schools when there is an alternative of equal or better quality to send kids to.

    Very well put dude!


    gamertag: Canadianllama
  • darkphoenix22darkphoenix22 Registered User
    Richy wrote: »
    My understanding of the Ontario Catholic school board is that it's not a government endorsement of that religion, but a recognition of Ontario's history.

    My understanding is that they're also some of the best schools in Ontario, so I'd be opposed to abolishing their funding. It would be doing a disservice to Ontario's youth. And don't say "we could balance it out by making the secular schools better". No. Start by making the secular schools better, then cut funding to the Catholic schools when there is an alternative of equal or better quality to send kids to.

    Or make it one school board so students don't have to choose between going to a decent school and Don't Ask Don't Tell discrimination.

    Sorry, but discrimination is illegal under the Charter. It's not about religion. It's about equal rights.

  • RobmanRobman Registered User regular
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    Robman wrote: »
    It's MAGIC MONEY! It's a lot like his TOUGH PRISONS for TOUGH CRIMINALS (despite crime rates plummeting year on year).

    I'm actually surprised that he hasn't mandated the provinces to pay for the F35 fighter jets.
    He's already expecting provinces to pay for his settling NAFTA lawsuits in favour of American companies rather than defending Canadian interests.

    ololol small government trading power to the provinces.

    ololol provincial rights et al. aside, I really don't have much beef here. Newfoundland entered the covenant with the company under good faith under the terms of NAFTA. Newfoundland knew, under this agreement, that the NAFTA framework would govern any future disputes instead of Newfoundland's courts and laws.

    Now that speaks either to Newfoundland's foolishness or the badness of NAFTA, but it's not really a mark against Harper. Unless you think he deliberately scuttled the case in order to fuck over Newfoundland for not electing a Conservative MP. That's entirely possible, but unlikely. Old Danny boy was a lot of things, and overly prideful was definitely one.

  • Disco11Disco11 Registered User regular
    Richy wrote: »
    My understanding of the Ontario Catholic school board is that it's not a government endorsement of that religion, but a recognition of Ontario's history.

    My understanding is that they're also some of the best schools in Ontario, so I'd be opposed to abolishing their funding. It would be doing a disservice to Ontario's youth. And don't say "we could balance it out by making the secular schools better". No. Start by making the secular schools better, then cut funding to the Catholic schools when there is an alternative of equal or better quality to send kids to.

    Or make it one school board so students don't have to choose between going to a decent school and Don't Ask Don't Tell discrimination.

    Sorry, but discrimination is illegal under the Charter. It's not about religion. It's about equal rights.

    Ok is this your new drum your beating this week? Catholic's discriminating against gays?

    Just want to know so I can avoid this thread until your done.


    gamertag: Canadianllama
  • hawkboxhawkbox Registered User regular
    I just skim past any time I notice his name. This forum could really do with an ignore function.

    Virtue flourishes in the most unexpected places.
  • Gnome-InterruptusGnome-Interruptus Registered User regular
    So apparently Japan has gone full retard over getting rid of nuclear after the tsunami/earthquake double feature, and Germany is attempting to follow suit.

    Now there is some rumblings within the media asking if Canada should also persue the thrill of radioactive paranoia.

    Please let the CPC not fuck this up for us like Carter fucked the US on nuclear power.

    steam_sig.png
  • KetBraKetBra shut up and jamRegistered User regular
    hawkbox wrote: »
    I just skim past any time I notice his name. This forum could really do with an ignore function.

    It does have one

    yA895.png
  • LaOsLaOs Registered User regular
    So apparently Japan has gone full retard over getting rid of nuclear after the tsunami/earthquake double feature, and Germany is attempting to follow suit.

    Now there is some rumblings within the media asking if Canada should also persue the thrill of radioactive paranoia.

    Please let the CPC not fuck this up for us like Carter fucked the US on nuclear power.

    I read about Germany this morning.

    I just shook my head through the entire article.

  • darkphoenix22darkphoenix22 Registered User
    Disco11 wrote: »
    Ok is this your new drum your beating this week? Catholic's discriminating against gays?

    Just want to know so I can avoid this thread until your done.

    It helps that I am gay and saw open students being discriminated against by TEACHERS when the students left the room.

    St. Patrick High School. Same school that was involved in the pro-choice suspensions awhile back.
    http://www.tbnewswatch.com/news/136109/Students-sent-home

  • hawkboxhawkbox Registered User regular
    CorpseRT wrote: »
    hawkbox wrote: »
    I just skim past any time I notice his name. This forum could really do with an ignore function.

    It does have one

    You're right! Awesome.

    Ah hell, I hope they don't get stupid about nuclear now.

    Virtue flourishes in the most unexpected places.
  • CorporateGoonCorporateGoon Registered User regular
    So apparently Japan has gone full retard over getting rid of nuclear after the tsunami/earthquake double feature, and Germany is attempting to follow suit.

    Now there is some rumblings within the media asking if Canada should also persue the thrill of radioactive paranoia.

    Please let the CPC not fuck this up for us like Carter fucked the US on nuclear power.

    They've been fucking it up for a little more than two years now. Ever since Harper said he was going to privatize parts of AECL in May of 2009, the nuclear industry in Canada has been a little messed up. If he had actually managed to sell off the chunks he intended to sell, that would be one thing, but they haven't been able to find a buyer, so things are all kind of up in the air. It's more of an incompetence thing than actually fighting against nuclear power, but the effect is similar.

    Plus, the damn hippies are trying to get Quebec to shut down their only nuclear power plant. If they succeed, that'll leave just one power generating plant outside of Ontario.

  • ImperfectImperfect Registered User regular
    hawkbox wrote: »
    CorpseRT wrote: »
    hawkbox wrote: »
    I just skim past any time I notice his name. This forum could really do with an ignore function.

    It does have one

    You're right! Awesome.

    Ah hell, I hope they don't get stupid about nuclear now.

    This is excellent. This thread is like 10x better now.

  • VanderbrentVanderbrent Registered User regular
    So apparently Japan has gone full retard over getting rid of nuclear after the tsunami/earthquake double feature, and Germany is attempting to follow suit.

    Now there is some rumblings within the media asking if Canada should also persue the thrill of radioactive paranoia.

    Please let the CPC not fuck this up for us like Carter fucked the US on nuclear power.

    They've been fucking it up for a little more than two years now. Ever since Harper said he was going to privatize parts of AECL in May of 2009, the nuclear industry in Canada has been a little messed up. If he had actually managed to sell off the chunks he intended to sell, that would be one thing, but they haven't been able to find a buyer, so things are all kind of up in the air. It's more of an incompetence thing than actually fighting against nuclear power, but the effect is similar.

    Plus, the damn hippies are trying to get Quebec to shut down their only nuclear power plant. If they succeed, that'll leave just one power generating plant outside of Ontario.


    Well, at least Ontario's energy policy doesn't seem to be screwed up:
    Nuclear power accounts for almost half of Ontario's power generation. The government plans to maintain nuclear power's role in energy generation through to 2025. ... As a strategy to cut down greenhouse gas emissions, the Ontario government is planning to phase out coal-fired electricity generating plants and increase the proportion of electricity generated from renewable sources as well as promoting strategies to reduce electricity demand through CDM [Conservation and Demand Management].
    found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontario_electricity_policy

  • DiorinixDiorinix Registered User regular
    So apparently Japan has gone full retard over getting rid of nuclear after the tsunami/earthquake double feature, and Germany is attempting to follow suit.

    Now there is some rumblings within the media asking if Canada should also persue the thrill of radioactive paranoia.

    Please let the CPC not fuck this up for us like Carter fucked the US on nuclear power.

    They've been fucking it up for a little more than two years now. Ever since Harper said he was going to privatize parts of AECL in May of 2009, the nuclear industry in Canada has been a little messed up. If he had actually managed to sell off the chunks he intended to sell, that would be one thing, but they haven't been able to find a buyer, so things are all kind of up in the air. It's more of an incompetence thing than actually fighting against nuclear power, but the effect is similar.

    Plus, the damn hippies are trying to get Quebec to shut down their only nuclear power plant. If they succeed, that'll leave just one power generating plant outside of Ontario.

    Not only nuclear power, but natural gas and oil exploration sites, too. We have customers who are so concerned about the public doing something stupid to their wellsites (there's photographic evidence of some wingnut attempting to light a surface casing vent on fire with a stick) that they're contracting guys from Alberta to fly down and secure the wells from the inside. They can't even rely on razorwire cages and heavy-duty chain and lock assemblies to keep the well safe.

    That's the thing with some extreme oil&gas opponents. They're so opposed to stopping oil and gas exploration that they're willing to set bombs off or sabotage pipelines....which result in a worse release of hydrocarbons than any regular facility or site will ever have. It just doesn't make sense.

    Also doesn't make sense, in a world where natural gas, oil, and gasoline are all set to skyrocket in the next 12 months, that the government puts a complete moritorium on self-produced product. Self-sufficiency, what? Local job growth, what?

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Mmmmm....toasty.
  • CorporateGoonCorporateGoon Registered User regular
    Diorinix wrote: »
    So apparently Japan has gone full retard over getting rid of nuclear after the tsunami/earthquake double feature, and Germany is attempting to follow suit.

    Now there is some rumblings within the media asking if Canada should also persue the thrill of radioactive paranoia.

    Please let the CPC not fuck this up for us like Carter fucked the US on nuclear power.

    They've been fucking it up for a little more than two years now. Ever since Harper said he was going to privatize parts of AECL in May of 2009, the nuclear industry in Canada has been a little messed up. If he had actually managed to sell off the chunks he intended to sell, that would be one thing, but they haven't been able to find a buyer, so things are all kind of up in the air. It's more of an incompetence thing than actually fighting against nuclear power, but the effect is similar.

    Plus, the damn hippies are trying to get Quebec to shut down their only nuclear power plant. If they succeed, that'll leave just one power generating plant outside of Ontario.

    Not only nuclear power, but natural gas and oil exploration sites, too. We have customers who are so concerned about the public doing something stupid to their wellsites (there's photographic evidence of some wingnut attempting to light a surface casing vent on fire with a stick) that they're contracting guys from Alberta to fly down and secure the wells from the inside. They can't even rely on razorwire cages and heavy-duty chain and lock assemblies to keep the well safe.

    That's the thing with some extreme oil&gas opponents. They're so opposed to stopping oil and gas exploration that they're willing to set bombs off or sabotage pipelines....which result in a worse release of hydrocarbons than any regular facility or site will ever have. It just doesn't make sense.

    Also doesn't make sense, in a world where natural gas, oil, and gasoline are all set to skyrocket in the next 12 months, that the government puts a complete moritorium on self-produced product. Self-sufficiency, what? Local job growth, what?

    What good will all those jobs be when Mother Earth is burned to a crisp? If they don't allow exploration, and people blow up the pipelines, then clearly everyone will immediately stop using fossil fuels and switch to solar. Clearly.

    Moving away from fossil fuels is a noble goal, but it's a loooooooooooooong process. In the end, it will have taken more than ten years and an astonishing amount of political capital to shut down the coal plants in Ontario. And it'll take even more to close the natural gas plants or to improve the power infrastructure for an influx of electric cars.

This discussion has been closed.