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Video Game Industry Thread: Time for a new thread

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Posts

  • HenroidHenroid Nobody Nowhere fastRegistered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    I generally think what gamers want is a general application of the tech that doesn't scream gimmick.

    I said it before and I'll say it again; Mass Effect 3's use of Kinect as an optional control feature is the first and most proper step in that direction.

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  • Unco-ordinatedUnco-ordinated Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Oh no, conservatism got to NZ's internet too? I had no idea.. damn, thought you guys were in the clear. Is it the same filter nonsense proposed over here?

    Admittedly I still like the immediacy of buying games in-store, this of course being relative to overseas shipping - the wait for Mortal Kombat was painful, though mainly due to anticipation and the 0.00001% chance it was going to be seized by Customs.

    No filter but starting from september, torrents are basically a no-go. Get caught three times and they take your fucking internet away. Worst part is they knew it was hugely unpopular but rushed it through anyway because they're idiots and have no idea what they're doing.

    Not that it's going to stop anything anyway, everyone will just have to jump through a couple extra hoops to do what they were doing beforehand.
    All the MS guys that were on the Bombcasts were relentlessly on message about Kinect. There must have been a memo.

    Still don't know why those guys were on it. They weren't game developers and they sounded like PR shills. Basically the complete opposite of what I want when listening to special event editions of the Bombcast.

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  • lowlylowlycooklowlylowlycook Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Henroid wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    I generally think what gamers want is a general application of the tech that doesn't scream gimmick.

    I said it before and I'll say it again; Mass Effect 3's use of Kinect as an optional control feature is the first and most proper step in that direction.

    But anyone could add voice commands to their game without Kinect. If it's such a great feature why not add it to PS3 or PC versions?

    No moneyhats. That's why.


    [edit] Wait, in NZ you'll be in trouble if you torrent, say, a Linux distro? Or do they just mean illegal torrents?

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  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    darleysam wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    darleysam wrote: »
    He just needs to use 'rational' in there and he'd be fine.

    Oxymorons are not fine.

    Rational core gamers can't be fans of Kinect?
    "Rational core gamer" is the oxymoron.

  • ValleoValleo Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Henroid wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    I generally think what gamers want is a general application of the tech that doesn't scream gimmick.

    I said it before and I'll say it again; Mass Effect 3's use of Kinect as an optional control feature is the first and most proper step in that direction.

    But anyone could add voice commands to their game without Kinect. If it's such a great feature why not add it to PS3 or PC versions?

    No moneyhats. That's why.

    Seriously. There's no reason you shouldn't be able to use a headset to do this in ME3.

    But hey, I'm just glad that they didn't mess up ME3 shoehorning Kinect controls in it. So yeah.

  • HenroidHenroid Nobody Nowhere fastRegistered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Henroid wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    I generally think what gamers want is a general application of the tech that doesn't scream gimmick.

    I said it before and I'll say it again; Mass Effect 3's use of Kinect as an optional control feature is the first and most proper step in that direction.

    But anyone could add voice commands to their game without Kinect. If it's such a great feature why not add it to PS3 or PC versions?

    No moneyhats. That's why.

    I'm not saying it SHOULD be exclusive, but they have the means to make it an exclusive feature and that's the way it is.

    But anyway, you're avoiding the issue partially - voice command in ME3, is it a good idea or bad?

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  • Brainiac 8Brainiac 8 Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Meh, the voice command thing does nothing for me....but I'm sure some will love that.

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  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Zhu-Li, do the thing! Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Couscous wrote: »
    DoA: <20k

    Er... what's DoA?

    Edit: And as someone who owns a Kinect and is extremely excited for Mass Effect 3, I have next to no interest in issuing voice commands in ME3 whatsoever.

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  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Zhu-Li, do the thing! Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    God bless executives who forget when they're not supposed to say stuff. Like SEGA EVP Alan Pritchard:
    Pritchard was asked by GameSpot whether or not Sonic Generations would see a release on the console. He said, "The timing just doesn't work. Generations releases this November, and the Wii U is coming out next spring/summer.

    Woops. So Wii U next summer, eh? Interesting.

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  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    DoA: <20k

    Er... what's DoA?

    Edit: And as someone who owns a Kinect and is extremely excited for Mass Effect 3, I have next to no interest in issuing voice commands in ME3 whatsoever.
    Tits and Asses: The Game.

    Dead or Alive.

    I kind of wonder how Move features and Kinect features for the various games will affect sales.

  • Warlock82Warlock82 Never pet a burning dog Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    God bless executives who forget when they're not supposed to say stuff. Like SEGA EVP Alan Pritchard:
    Pritchard was asked by GameSpot whether or not Sonic Generations would see a release on the console. He said, "The timing just doesn't work. Generations releases this November, and the Wii U is coming out next spring/summer.

    Woops. So Wii U next summer, eh? Interesting.

    To be fair, he may have meant "as early as next Spring/Summer", since I believe somewhere Nintendo gave the timeframe of Spring-Winter 2012.
    Warlock82 wrote: »
    So Dead Rising 2: Off the Record is going to be $40:
    http://www.joystiq.com/2011/06/13/dead-rising-2-off-the-record-will-cost-40-in-north-america/

    That's about $20 too expensive IMO for a game I essentially already bought :P Ah well, I'm sure it will drop in price pretty rapidly.

    It's amusing that this is what bothers some people.

    They charged $5 for a demo. Nobody batted an eye.

    They charged $10 for DLC that wasn't actually DLC. Nobody batted an eye.

    They charge $40 for more DLC/side-mission? Fuck it...BURN THEM!

    What?

    Case Zero was an original mini-campaign with content exclusive to it, for $5. On top of the fact that you could, you know, play the free trial of it because it was an XBLA game, if you really needed a demo.

    Case West, compared to other Dead Rising titles, was relatively meaty as a $10 XBLA title. And again, it was an entirely original mini-campaign.

    Off the Record is a rehash of a game people already own with SOME new content and a $40 price tag.

    The price difference alone makes me not see this as a valid comparison. Coupled with what the two XBLA titles were in comparison to what Off the Record is, and I don't really see where you're coming from on that. If they released Off the Record as a $10 to $20 addon, (depending on how much new content is really in it) I doubt people would be grousing that much.

    And yeah, this. Case Zero and Case West were distinct, new games. They reused a lot of assets from Dead Rising 2, but they were also budget priced so it's not like this was a huge deal. They were distinctly different environments, story, and characters from DR2 though. And again, $5-10.

    Off the Record is literally the exact same game as Dead Rising 2, with a different main character and maybe one new area. That is not worth $40.

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  • lowlylowlycooklowlylowlycook Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Henroid wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    I generally think what gamers want is a general application of the tech that doesn't scream gimmick.

    I said it before and I'll say it again; Mass Effect 3's use of Kinect as an optional control feature is the first and most proper step in that direction.

    But anyone could add voice commands to their game without Kinect. If it's such a great feature why not add it to PS3 or PC versions?

    No moneyhats. That's why.

    I'm not saying it SHOULD be exclusive, but they have the means to make it an exclusive feature and that's the way it is.

    But anyway, you're avoiding the issue partially - voice command in ME3, is it a good idea or bad?

    I'm saying that voice command has been available for a long time and almost totally ignored as far as gaming is considered. It's not like the two screens of the DS or motion controls or even the Kinect camera where you can say that it opens up new possibilities. Even outside gaming it's only really used for controlling electronics while driving, i.e. when there is no other choice.

    As far as Mass Effect goes, I guess if the AI was really good then voice commands in combat might work OK. Maybe more useful for a console gamer than for someone that has a mouse available? The voice while conversing suffers because what you say isn't what the character says. I'm am sold on voice for renegade interrupts that come up when I've taken my hand off the controls to watch a cut scene.

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  • CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Heh, I just bought a handful of Nintendo shares now that the investor tantrum is over.

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  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Zhu-Li, do the thing! Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Couscous wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    DoA: <20k

    Er... what's DoA?

    Edit: And as someone who owns a Kinect and is extremely excited for Mass Effect 3, I have next to no interest in issuing voice commands in ME3 whatsoever.
    Tits and Asses: The Game.

    Dead or Alive.

    I kind of wonder how Move features and Kinect features for the various games will affect sales.

    Ah, thanks.

    I think that, for whatever reason, "core" gamers have pretty much forgotten that Move exists. Hell, I'm guessing Sony's damn near forgotten it exists, since we got very little Move stuff at E3 this year.

    As for the Kinect stuff in the 360's core games... well, it's nice that Microsoft is trying, but for the most part they seem to be minor additions that can be easily ignored or played with a controller. There's really nothing that says "holy shit, I gotta get me a Kinect!" So my guess is that sales won't really be affected that much.

    Then again I was all kinds of wrong on L.A. Noire, so what do I know.

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  • DragkoniasDragkonias Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Yeah. Honestly, I could already imagine the problems in my head that would come with navigating your squadmates through voice command, they aren't pretty.

  • AutomaticzenAutomaticzen Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    The voice commands in Mass Effect were hot. But the question remains: Why can't I do that with my pack-in microphone?

    And the Ghost Recon stuff was cool, but not $100+ of cool.
    Yeah. Honestly, I could already imagine the problems in my head that would come with navigating your squadmates through voice command, they aren't pretty.
    Works fine for HAWX actually. And the times it doesn't? You have buttons.

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  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    http://www.computerandvideogames.com/307182/news/monthly-us-game-sales-fall-to-near-5-year-low/?cid=OTC-RSS&attr=CVG-General-RSS
    New hardware, software and accessories sales came in at $743.1 million, down 14 percent compared to last May and the lowest monthly total since October 2006.

    Click to view larger image
    NPD analyst Anita Frazier said: "Keeping in mind that these sales figures represent just the new physical portion of the market for video game hardware, software, and accessories and not the growing portion of the industry that is comprised of digital format content distribution, May 2011 was the lowest month of sales for the industry since October 2006.

    "A light slate of new releases is at the heart of this month's performance," she added.

    LA Noire topped the US software chart in May, while Xbox 360 was the leading hardware platform.

  • MoioinkMoioink Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I hope 3DS sales will put Nintendo off the Wii U name. I bet a lot of people don't realise that the 3DS is a new system and not just a new DS like the DSi or XL.

  • Brainiac 8Brainiac 8 Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I was hoping it would be sooner than December/Holiday, so if this is the case, I'm happy.

    I'm impatient, that is all. :P

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  • RainbowDespairRainbowDespair Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    The 360, PS3, and Wii are all selling around 2-3 times as much as the 3DS? That can't be good.

  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Zhu-Li, do the thing! Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    So putting together the various posts, we have:

    360--270K
    Wii--236K
    PS3--177K
    3DS--97K

    Um, wow. What was the DS' sales like in its second month? At any rate, the 3DS has got to be way lower than Nintendo's expectations. And yeah, if I were Nintendo I'd seriously rethink the Wii U's name, since I'm starting to suspect that people really do think the 3DS is just a DS with 3D shoehorned in.

    For the consoles, the post-Kinect new normal seems to be holding, as the proportions haven't changed much. Remind me, when did the Wii's price drop go into effect?

    3DS: 0344-9335-6762
  • darleysamdarleysam Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    DoA: <20k

    Er... what's DoA?

    Edit: And as someone who owns a Kinect and is extremely excited for Mass Effect 3, I have next to no interest in issuing voice commands in ME3 whatsoever.
    Tits and Asses: The Game.

    Dead or Alive.

    I kind of wonder how Move features and Kinect features for the various games will affect sales.

    Ah, thanks.

    I think that, for whatever reason, "core" gamers have pretty much forgotten that Move exists. Hell, I'm guessing Sony's damn near forgotten it exists, since we got very little Move stuff at E3 this year.

    As for the Kinect stuff in the 360's core games... well, it's nice that Microsoft is trying, but for the most part they seem to be minor additions that can be easily ignored or played with a controller. There's really nothing that says "holy shit, I gotta get me a Kinect!" So my guess is that sales won't really be affected that much.

    Then again I was all kinds of wrong on L.A. Noire, so what do I know.

    I guess the strategy is to try and gradually work these things into the games. Rather than release Mass Effect or Ghost Recon: Kinect, they've held both games back to add in these experiments that they've been playing around with to see how they take. If the market goes for it and they get good feedback, then they'll push ahead with it and try more things. If it's ignored? No big loss.

  • lowlylowlycooklowlylowlycook Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Forget the WiiU name, I hope that Nintendo are looking at what price to announce more carefully.

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  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Zhu-Li, do the thing! Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    darleysam wrote: »
    I guess the strategy is to try and gradually work these things into the games. Rather than release Mass Effect or Ghost Recon: Kinect, they've held both games back to add in these experiments that they've been playing around with to see how they take. If the market goes for it and they get good feedback, then they'll push ahead with it and try more things. If it's ignored? No big loss.

    Given how badly most third parties handled waggle on the Wii, I'd say these games ARE the full Kinect experience as far as they're concerned.

    Edit:
    Forget the WiiU name, I hope that Nintendo are looking at what price to announce more carefully.

    That too, especially since Iwata flat-out said they priced aggressively. And if the price is the problem, that doesn't bode well for the Vita either...

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  • RainbowDespairRainbowDespair Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    What's really embarrassing is that the PS3 sold nearly twice as many as the 3DS did during the month when the PSN was down.

  • Warlock82Warlock82 Never pet a burning dog Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    The voice commands in Mass Effect were hot. But the question remains: Why can't I do that with my pack-in microphone?

    Have they definitively said that you can't?

    Personally I thought that feature wasn't all that great though. For the dialog wheels, it's WAY easier to just select the option (plus who the hell wants to hear their own voice reading Shepard's lines?). For combat, I honestly don't see that working for shit. You say "Move up" and watch the AI walk right into an enemy or something. I don't see how you can possibly be precise with that.

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  • DragkoniasDragkonias Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Forget the WiiU name, I hope that Nintendo are looking at what price to announce more carefully.

    I want to know how much that controller is going to cost myself.

  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Zhu-Li, do the thing! Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Hm. Yeah, I guess it's pretty safe to say that the PS3's outage didn't really affect sales too much.

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  • AZChristopherAZChristopher Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Moioink wrote: »
    I hope 3DS sales will put Nintendo off the Wii U name. I bet a lot of people don't realise that the 3DS is a new system and not just a new DS like the DSi or XL.

    The Wii u might not have the same issue since Nintendo didn't release multiple hardware revisions with the Wii in the same way they did with the DS.

    Part of the problem is there isn't much for Nintendo to market with the 3DS right now. They can, and should, run a marketing campaign showing off how it is a whole new handheld this holiday season. If it has a bad November then I think we can start worrying.

    Also, I hope Sony isn't counting on the PS3 to last another 2-3 years.

    edit: on the DS, the DSi XL was probably not the right idea. Releasing a new version of the DS practically every year meant that plenty of people have newer working handhelds that they don't want to replace. Nintendo might have benefited by leaving a gap or doing more than just adding a 3 to DS.

  • AZChristopherAZChristopher Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Forget the WiiU name, I hope that Nintendo are looking at what price to announce more carefully.

    I want to know how much that controller is going to cost myself.

    If you can only use one per system, there really isn't a reason for them to offer a stand alone controller at first.

    They could just have you send it in to get fixed if you break it.

  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Zhu-Li, do the thing! Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Well, this was inevitable.
    Google recently removed at least 10 applications from the Android Market, all of which contained malicious code disguised as add-ons to one of the most popular apps of all time.

    Each of the removed apps posed as a cheat or an add-on to Angry Birds, the much-lauded mobile application created by Finnish game development studio Rovio.

    A number of the apps in question contained a spyware program called Plankton, which connects to a remote server and uploads phone information like the IMEI number, browser bookmarks and browsing history.

    “Market descriptions for these apps included the statement ‘brought to you free sponsored by Choopcheec Platform,’” Lookout Security spokesperson Alicia diVittorio told Wired.com. “[They include] a link to an EULA that does seem to accurately describe the behavior observed to date. We do not see these as desirable behaviors and classify it as Spyware.”

    Xuxian Jiang, an assistant professor of computer science at North Carolina State University, initially discovered the malicious applications last week, and reported them to Google on June 5. Google suspended the questionable applications the same day, “pending further investigation.”

    Jiang found malicious programs other than Plankton in his research. YZHCSMS, for example, is a Trojan horse virus that jacks up your phone bill by sending large amounts of SMS messages to premium numbers. Jiang says apps containing the virus were available on the Android Market for at least three months before Google pulled them.

    Jiang found a similar application, DroidKungFu, circulating Chinese application markets before YZHCSMS made its way to the Android Market. “DroidKungFu can collect various information about the infected phone, including the IMEI number, phone model and Android OS version,” according to a Lookout Security blog post.

    For many app developers, the Android Market offers a freedom not found in other application retail outlets. Unlike Apple’s strict application review process, apps submitted to the Android Market are published almost instantaneously. Many appreciate the freedom given to push programs out to the public at such a speed.

    However, the Android Market’s app submission process comes at a cost. Google’s lack of vetting applications lends the Market to security vulnerabilities like these. Google mostly relies on a self-policing community — including researchers like Jiang — to spot offending apps, which means malware can sit in the market for months before someone spots it.


    With a relatively open submission process like Android’s, this obviously isn’t Google’s first run-in with malicious app removals. Google pulled nearly two dozen malware-infected applications in early March, but not before close to 200,000 downloads occurred.

    Going outside of the official Android Market for apps can be even riskier. Because users are able to download applications from alternative app markets — a feature unavailable to iPhone users — many have popped up over the past two years. Without Google’s moderation capabilities in these outside markets, users are more susceptible to downloading malicious apps. A Trojan with “botnet-like capabilities” popped up in early April, for example, highlighting the risk in going to alternative markets for applications.

    http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2011/06/android-malware-angry-birds/

    They're right, I haven't heard much of anything about malware for iPhones (or at least non-jailbroken iPhones). Android's openness, while laudable in theory, continues to generate big ole clusterfucks.

    Though it would be nice if we could get a happy medium between that and the iPhone's harsh restrictions.

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  • Skull2185Skull2185 Smile Puddin'! Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    What's really embarrassing is that the PS3 sold nearly twice as many as the 3DS did during the month when the PSN was down.

    I bet that has alot to do with the Gamestop promotion where they pretty much gave you a PS3.

    It's like the N-word and the C-word had a baby, and it was raised by all the bad words for Jews.
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  • PureauthorPureauthor Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Basically, we need more stringent regulation of what goes up on the app store.

    Not that I honestly expect Apple to give a rat's arse.

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  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Zhu-Li, do the thing! Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Speaking of mobile stuff, here's the latest [strike]homages[/strike] [strike]ripoffs[/strike] palate swaps from Gameloft:

    Silent Ops = Splinter Cell
    9mm = Max Payne
    March of Heroes = CODBLOPS
    Back Stab = Assassin's Creed

    Also, I got a kick out of this opening sentence in Wired's review of Duke Nukem Forever:
    Duke Nukem is here to kick ass and chew bubble gum, and he’s all out of ass.

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  • Unco-ordinatedUnco-ordinated Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    [edit] Wait, in NZ you'll be in trouble if you torrent, say, a Linux distro? Or do they just mean illegal torrents?

    I'm pretty sure it relies on complaints from companies. So if Warner sees your IP downloading one of their movies, they'll bitch at your ISP and it counts as a warning. Doesn't matter if it was your little brother, kid or flatmate that did it, you're guilty through association.
    The Wii u might not have the same issue since Nintendo didn't release multiple hardware revisions with the Wii in the same way they did with the DS.

    They did release a hell of a lot of Wii peripherals though and a lot of games called Wii [name]. If people like us came out of their conference thinking the Wii U was just a controller, imagine what the general populous would think. Especially if we're to assume they don't even know the 3DS is a new system.

    And I can't believe Gameloft made ripoffs of Splinter Cell and Assassin's Creed. They've made legit versions of games for gods sake. Is it really that hard for Michel to give his brother a call and ask if he can use the real licenses?

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  • AZChristopherAZChristopher Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Good point about Wii peripherals. Hopefully Nintendo won't release any new ones between now and the Wii u. Big enough gap may excite people instead of them brushing it off.

    Really Nintendo needs to do another holiday mall tour. It worked wonders for them last time.

  • AutomaticzenAutomaticzen Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/14/wii-u-has-last-gen-radeon-inside-still-more-powerful-than-ps3-a/

    The Wii U GPU is apparently an R700 series. Two years old (Three+ by time the system hits), but still quite a kicker, considering the 360's in 5 years old.

    So, it'll be able to outperform the 360 at least.

    The real question is how they're going to deal with heat. I have an R700 GPU and the thing runs hot with a sizable heatsink and fan combo standard. Maybe they can dieshrink it, but still.

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  • jothkijothki Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    [edit] Wait, in NZ you'll be in trouble if you torrent, say, a Linux distro? Or do they just mean illegal torrents?

    I'm pretty sure it relies on complaints from companies. So if Warner sees your IP downloading one of their movies, they'll bitch at your ISP and it counts as a warning. Doesn't matter if it was your little brother, kid or flatmate that did it, you're guilty through association.

    To be fair there, you should have complete control over how your connection is used. If someone does something wrong with it, that's either because you gave them access or failed to secure it.

  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Death Groupie Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Oh no, conservatism got to NZ's internet too? I had no idea.. damn, thought you guys were in the clear. Is it the same filter nonsense proposed over here?

    Admittedly I still like the immediacy of buying games in-store, this of course being relative to overseas shipping - the wait for Mortal Kombat was painful, though mainly due to anticipation and the 0.00001% chance it was going to be seized by Customs.

    No filter but starting from september, torrents are basically a no-go. Get caught three times and they take your fucking internet away. Worst part is they knew it was hugely unpopular but rushed it through anyway because they're idiots and have no idea what they're doing.

    Not that it's going to stop anything anyway, everyone will just have to jump through a couple extra hoops to do what they were doing beforehand.
    All the MS guys that were on the Bombcasts were relentlessly on message about Kinect. There must have been a memo.

    Still don't know why those guys were on it. They weren't game developers and they sounded like PR shills. Basically the complete opposite of what I want when listening to special event editions of the Bombcast.

    Eh, they provided a target and some feedback for Jonathan Blows anti-MS certification complaints, so that alone made it worth it.

    EDIT: As for Kinect, while the stuff in the Ghost Recon game and ME3 aren't terrible (aside from that shooting.) they really, really aren't things that I would expect that someone would run out and drop an additional $150 bucks on. Well sure, you can say that eventually there will be enough software with additional features like that to make it worth it, IMO that would takes years and we'd probably be in a new generation by that point.

    Honestly, the Kinect needs a killer app for the hardcore: a game that will make people want to buy a Kinect for it. (And that ISN'T dance central). Because beyond being a system seller, it can also serve as a template for how to properly do kinect games in a way that attracts the hardcore. Whether or not we'll ever see a game like that is anyone's guess.

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