"It’s been an education for me, to be sure: custom passwords everywhere, now, 2-step where available, and when I need a new password I let my daughter go fucking crazy nuts on the keyboard. And then I say who’s my little hash function? Who is it? She knows who."
and
"I want you to think about that future, the one we want to live in. Hopefully it will be some comfort while you are looking over your transaction history, trying to figure out exactly how much of your hard earned savings have been converted into dildos."
I didn't really understand the newspost to claim that they had that as a goal. Or had anything as a goal.
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
edited June 2011
I thought the PSN outage was pretty funny, but as soon as Minecraft went down, shit got real. I'm not angry at Lulzsec, so much as disappointed. It's like a group of stalwart heroes broke into an evil corporation's headquarters, then ran off to the park and punched some toddlers in the back of the head.
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The GeekOh-Two Crew, OmeganautRegistered User, ClubPAregular
What is DDoS and why is so much stuff vulnerable to it? One would think that when these DDoS hacks started going around, that people would beef up their security against whatever it is.
It's essentially a million people mashing 'refresh' on your server so that no one else can use it.
Not a lot you can do about that, except having more robust servers. When popular website links to some small-time webpage; the resulting outage is essentially caused by an unintentional DDOS attack
It's like when a sight is wanged, but on purpose.
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ArtreusI'm a wizardAnd that looks fucked upRegistered Userregular
It’s been an education for me, to be sure: custom passwords everywhere, now, 2-step where available, and when I need a new password I let my daughter go fucking crazy nuts on the keyboard. And then I say who’s my little hash function? Who is it? She knows who.
Aww. I'd let my cat dance on the keyboard for me, but I don't want his dirty feet on my desk.
Jephery on
}
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
It’s been an education for me, to be sure: custom passwords everywhere, now, 2-step where available, and when I need a new password I let my daughter go fucking crazy nuts on the keyboard. And then I say who’s my little hash function? Who is it? She knows who.
Aww. I'd let my cat dance on the keyboard for me, but I don't want his dirty feet on my desk.
I thought the PSN outage was pretty funny, but as soon as Minecraft went down, shit got real. I'm not angry at Lulzsec, so much as disappointed. It's like a group of stalwart heroes broke into an evil corporation's headquarters, then ran off to the park and punched some toddlers in the back of the head.
Everybody looks the same to you when you are a sociopath.
And if these guys were your definition of stalwart heroes, I'm thinkin' maybe you need some better role models.
Painting Sony as an "evil" corporation seems pretty asinine too, come to think of it. Insensitive and careless with their costumer's needs, sure, but painting them as "evil" is alarmist propaganda, and largely nonsense.
I don't really agree with the newspost though. He is saying they are doing this to enhance security.
But they aren't. They don't give a shit about that kind of thing.
Haven't they publicly stated that they are just doing it for fun, hence their name.
There have been statements to both ends, but really they aren't a directed organization or anything. The fact that so many account thefts are being publicized but the info isn't being dumped into the usual torrent or sale channels errs on the security side of things. They may have an objectionable methodology, but at least some of them are trying to navigate an acceptable morality.
These guys also DDOS'd the CIA's website. I hope they track the dumbasses down and put them away for a long time.
Yes, I can definitely see how teenagers should be institutionalized for years of their life in wretched living conditions and potentially among violent offenders for messing up some websites. That will definitely protect the fundamental structure of society and teach people not to engage in that behavior in the future. It sure worked all the other times we did it.
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ButtersA glass of some milksRegistered Userregular
These guys also DDOS'd the CIA's website. I hope they track the dumbasses down and put them away for a long time.
Yes, I can definitely see how teenagers should be institutionalized for years of their life in wretched living conditions and potentially among violent offenders for messing up some websites. That will definitely protect the fundamental structure of society and teach people not to engage in that behavior in the future. It sure worked all the other times we did it.
As far as I understand it, a DDoS attack (something denial of service) is nothing more than internet traffic spamming somebody's service until it crashes because it can't handle all the traffic. So basically you just turn your internet star destroyer until it's facing somebody's login server and blast it with pings and requests and stuff until it goes down.
I think the reason it works is because it's so simple.
It stands for distributed denial of service, and it isn't at all new or advanced. And yeah, it's just flooding the servers with thousands of web requests until it goes down. Obviously, doing that doesn't lead to passwords being disclosed. It's like if thousands of people showed up to a store and made it unavailable to real customers.
I'd wager a fair amount of money that there are teenagers in the group. I wouldn't be surprised if there are also twenty-something or older folks among them. I don't think that would really change the value of the response "putting them away for a long time" would have in this situation.
These guys also DDOS'd the CIA's website. I hope they track the dumbasses down and put them away for a long time.
Yes, I can definitely see how teenagers should be institutionalized for years of their life in wretched living conditions and potentially among violent offenders for messing up some websites. That will definitely protect the fundamental structure of society and teach people not to engage in that behavior in the future. It sure worked all the other times we did it.
it's not about protecting society or teaching potential future offenders
I'd wager a fair amount of money that there are teenagers in the group. I wouldn't be surprised if there are also twenty-something or older folks among them. I don't think that would really change the value of the response "putting them away for a long time" would have in this situation.
So what do you propose be done with grown adults (assuming their are some) that know full well they are breaking the law and possibly causing millions in damages. Should they not be subject to prosecution?
I'd wager a fair amount of money that there are teenagers in the group. I wouldn't be surprised if there are also twenty-something or older folks among them. I don't think that would really change the value of the response "putting them away for a long time" would have in this situation.
So what do you propose be done with grown adults (assuming their are some) that know full well they are breaking the law and possibly causing millions in damages. Should they not be subject to prosecution?
I don't think they should be subject to long term imprisonment = I don't think they should be subject to any prosecution? What? Does society hang in such a perilous balance that we can't brook any compromise or attempt at constructive resolution?
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ButtersA glass of some milksRegistered Userregular
edited June 2011
It depends on your definition of long-term imprisonment. I don't think a few months in prison is extreme in the case where you have an adult that is just trying to cause as much havoc as he can for the fun of it.
It depends on your definition of long-term imprisonment. I don't think a few months in prison is extreme in the case where you have an adult that is just trying to cause as much havoc as he can for the fun of it.
Would you really ever read the phrase "put them away for a long time" as a few months? Honestly.
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Burden of ProofYou three boys picked a beautiful hill to die on.Registered Userregular
I agree with Annie. I don't see how putting them in jail is a measured response to some DDOS attacks.
what about all the credit card info they claimed they got from bethesda and sony?
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BroloBroseidonLord of the BroceanRegistered Userregular
edited June 2011
Still, a DDOS attack or a security breach can cause several millions of dollars, In Sony's case the cost of their breach was estimated at $170M, and that's not including all of the third parties who couldn't sell games using PSN while the service was down.
The people responsible for the hack certainly won't have the money to pay for the damages they've caused, even if you garnish whatever wages they make for the rest of their lives.
Still, a DDOS attack or a security breach can cause several millions of dollars, In Sony's case the cost of their breach was estimated at $170M, and that's not including all of the third parties who couldn't sell games using PSN while the service was down.
The people responsible for the hack certainly won't have the money to pay for the damages they've caused, even if you garnish whatever wages they make for the rest of their lives.
One expert, Larry Ponemon of privacy and information security research group the Ponemon Institute, said that the total cost to Sony could be $1.5billion (£900million) - from a combination of lost business, compensation, and the cost of rectifying the breach. Other figures being thrown around are even larger, rising as high as $24billion, as estimated by business magazine Forbes.
Just sentence them all to a year in Amish country.
This seems like a fair sentence.
Or maybe make them do some community service or something.
Get their asses out of their computer chairs and make use of these fuckers. At least some of them need to be made examples of, just because they're young adults doesn't make them immune to punishment.
If they physically did march into a business's headquarters or a retail store and clogged it up for laughs then they'd get the same treatment. They should get the same level of consequences for doing it virtually, especially in the case of online-only shops like Minecraft.
I agree with Annie. I don't see how putting them in jail is a measured response to some DDOS attacks.
what about all the credit card info they claimed they got from bethesda and sony?
First of all, this discussion was in response to someone claiming they should be put away for a long time specifically for the DDOS attacks. Secondly, since when is claiming to have done something the same as actually having done it?
yeah I mean how DARE Sony create electronic entertainment devices which I am free to either purchase or not, or purchase one of their competitor's products! PURE EVIL!
the PSN hack was in response to Sony removing Linux support. sad thing is Sony tried to reach out to the "home-brew" crowd by allowing Linux on the console in the first place, but people ended up using it for hax and pirating games, so they had to remove it. they fucked it up in other words.
it would be like if I handed you a dirt-bike and said "now don't go tearing up other people's lawns with it" - you went out tore up people's lawns so I had to take it away, then you got all mad and starting throwing rocks thru their windows instead. HACK-TAVISTS!! FOR THE PEOPLE!
It doesn't seem like these "hacking groups" can do anything actually relevant. They are just inconveniencing minor websites and easy targets with large amounts of traffic and trying to exploit any obvious holes in security.
I don't think it should even be getting attention because thats all it is, some people who just want attention.
Its fair to want them to go to jail and get outraged over it I guess... but I'm not one to think witch hunts should be started over immature pranks. Theres more important people to go after than losers with too much time on their hands.
I think the point is that losers with too much time on their hand still costs damage to happen in a monetary value. So if some kids play a prank on my website and I end up losing customers and revenue nothing should happen to them?
I dont think long term jail time is approriate but there should be a punishment for the crime commited.
It doesn't seem like these "hacking groups" can do anything actually relevant. They are just inconveniencing minor websites and easy targets with large amounts of traffic and trying to exploit any obvious holes in security.
I don't think it should even be getting attention because thats all it is, some people who just want attention.
Its fair to want them to go to jail and get outraged over it I guess... but I'm not one to think witch hunts should be started over immature pranks. Theres more important people to go after than losers with too much time on their hands.
Getting a website to shut down causes lost revenue (in sales and advertising) and forces a company to spend its resources on more preventative measures. Pranks or not they have to potential to cause lasting damage which makes their activities very relevant.
Obvious security holes or not these individuals have no right to engage in this activity. If one is able to drive a truck through the front door of a convenient store the blame doesn't lie with the store owner for not having concrete pillars out front.
It depends on your definition of long-term imprisonment. I don't think a few months in prison is extreme in the case where you have an adult that is just trying to cause as much havoc as he can for the fun of it.
Would you really ever read the phrase "put them away for a long time" as a few months? Honestly.
I would consider several months in prison to be a pretty long time for a non violent crime of this sort.
Still, a DDOS attack or a security breach can cause several millions of dollars, In Sony's case the cost of their breach was estimated at $170M, and that's not including all of the third parties who couldn't sell games using PSN while the service was down.
The people responsible for the hack certainly won't have the money to pay for the damages they've caused, even if you garnish whatever wages they make for the rest of their lives.
One expert, Larry Ponemon of privacy and information security research group the Ponemon Institute, said that the total cost to Sony could be $1.5billion (£900million) - from a combination of lost business, compensation, and the cost of rectifying the breach. Other figures being thrown around are even larger, rising as high as $24billion, as estimated by business magazine Forbes.
...or $1.5 billion. Or $24 billion. Somewhere in the $170 million to $24 billion range.
That's out of fucking control. I mean, even assuming those are the most sensationalist estimates, the realistic ones are out of control. That kind of underscores a larger problem with how the system is built, but that doesn't really shift the blame from the attackers to the victims by any means. But it doesn't really help determine an appropriate solution, either. Maybe you can pin specific costs on the attackers: new hardware, staff, bandwidth for the free games, overtime hours, etc., but estimates of lost sales are super nebulous. And since those people almost certainly can't pay back even a fraction of the losses, they get imprisoned as a sort of weird symbolic gesture that doesn't really help anyone figure out a better approach to what's going on. I dunno, man.
the PSN hack was in response to Sony removing Linux support. sad thing is Sony tried to reach out to the "home-brew" crowd by allowing Linux on the console in the first place, but people ended up using it for hax and pirating games, so they had to remove it. they fucked it up in other words.
it would be like if I handed you a dirt-bike and said "now don't go tearing up other people's lawns with it" - you went out tore up people's lawns so I had to take it away, then you got all mad and starting throwing rocks thru their windows instead. HACK-TAVISTS!! FOR THE PEOPLE!
Last I checked, the Linux homebrew wasn't nearly sophisticated enough to run modified games online. I think they had barely decrypted the disc system for playing unofficial game media. Piracy was probably the big concern there. But I think the attack was in response to that whole extended lawsuit and subpoena of personal info for folks who even visited the websites of the groups working on the work arounds.
It depends on your definition of long-term imprisonment. I don't think a few months in prison is extreme in the case where you have an adult that is just trying to cause as much havoc as he can for the fun of it.
Would you really ever read the phrase "put them away for a long time" as a few months? Honestly.
I would consider several months in prison to be a pretty long time for a non violent crime of this sort.
That just doesn't read to me at all, but we're likely at an impasse attempting to infer another person's meaning.
edit: If this post were just slightly more combative, I might have pulled a Defender triple-shot there. So, uh, f u Jon.
Posts
"It’s been an education for me, to be sure: custom passwords everywhere, now, 2-step where available, and when I need a new password I let my daughter go fucking crazy nuts on the keyboard. And then I say who’s my little hash function? Who is it? She knows who."
and
"I want you to think about that future, the one we want to live in. Hopefully it will be some comfort while you are looking over your transaction history, trying to figure out exactly how much of your hard earned savings have been converted into dildos."
seeing this
oh, cruel irony
But they aren't. They don't give a shit about that kind of thing.
Haven't they publicly stated that they are just doing it for fun, hence their name.
It's like when a sight is wanged, but on purpose.
Yeah you're right, I was reading it wrong.
their goal was the lulz
but that goes without saying
Aww. I'd let my cat dance on the keyboard for me, but I don't want his dirty feet on my desk.
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
at least there's a practical solution for this problem.
still nothing for adolescent (in body and/or mind) script kiddies.
steam | Dokkan: 868846562
This makes me happy.
Everybody looks the same to you when you are a sociopath.
And if these guys were your definition of stalwart heroes, I'm thinkin' maybe you need some better role models.
Painting Sony as an "evil" corporation seems pretty asinine too, come to think of it. Insensitive and careless with their costumer's needs, sure, but painting them as "evil" is alarmist propaganda, and largely nonsense.
There have been statements to both ends, but really they aren't a directed organization or anything. The fact that so many account thefts are being publicized but the info isn't being dumped into the usual torrent or sale channels errs on the security side of things. They may have an objectionable methodology, but at least some of them are trying to navigate an acceptable morality.
http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16534
Yes, I can definitely see how teenagers should be institutionalized for years of their life in wretched living conditions and potentially among violent offenders for messing up some websites. That will definitely protect the fundamental structure of society and teach people not to engage in that behavior in the future. It sure worked all the other times we did it.
Do we know for a fact they are teenagers?
It stands for distributed denial of service, and it isn't at all new or advanced. And yeah, it's just flooding the servers with thousands of web requests until it goes down. Obviously, doing that doesn't lead to passwords being disclosed. It's like if thousands of people showed up to a store and made it unavailable to real customers.
Steam - Talon Valdez :Blizz - Talonious#1860 : Xbox Live & LoL - Talonious Monk @TaloniousMonk Hail Satan
it's not about protecting society or teaching potential future offenders
it's about fuck those assholes
So what do you propose be done with grown adults (assuming their are some) that know full well they are breaking the law and possibly causing millions in damages. Should they not be subject to prosecution?
Would you really ever read the phrase "put them away for a long time" as a few months? Honestly.
what about all the credit card info they claimed they got from bethesda and sony?
The people responsible for the hack certainly won't have the money to pay for the damages they've caused, even if you garnish whatever wages they make for the rest of their lives.
http://www.metro.co.uk/tech/games/861936-playstation-network-hack-could-cost-sony-1-5billion
...or $1.5 billion. Or $24 billion. Somewhere in the $170 million to $24 billion range.
This seems like a fair sentence.
Or maybe make them do some community service or something.
Get their asses out of their computer chairs and make use of these fuckers. At least some of them need to be made examples of, just because they're young adults doesn't make them immune to punishment.
If they physically did march into a business's headquarters or a retail store and clogged it up for laughs then they'd get the same treatment. They should get the same level of consequences for doing it virtually, especially in the case of online-only shops like Minecraft.
First of all, this discussion was in response to someone claiming they should be put away for a long time specifically for the DDOS attacks. Secondly, since when is claiming to have done something the same as actually having done it?
the PSN hack was in response to Sony removing Linux support. sad thing is Sony tried to reach out to the "home-brew" crowd by allowing Linux on the console in the first place, but people ended up using it for hax and pirating games, so they had to remove it. they fucked it up in other words.
it would be like if I handed you a dirt-bike and said "now don't go tearing up other people's lawns with it" - you went out tore up people's lawns so I had to take it away, then you got all mad and starting throwing rocks thru their windows instead. HACK-TAVISTS!! FOR THE PEOPLE!
I don't think it should even be getting attention because thats all it is, some people who just want attention.
Its fair to want them to go to jail and get outraged over it I guess... but I'm not one to think witch hunts should be started over immature pranks. Theres more important people to go after than losers with too much time on their hands.
I dont think long term jail time is approriate but there should be a punishment for the crime commited.
Steam
Getting a website to shut down causes lost revenue (in sales and advertising) and forces a company to spend its resources on more preventative measures. Pranks or not they have to potential to cause lasting damage which makes their activities very relevant.
Obvious security holes or not these individuals have no right to engage in this activity. If one is able to drive a truck through the front door of a convenient store the blame doesn't lie with the store owner for not having concrete pillars out front.
I would consider several months in prison to be a pretty long time for a non violent crime of this sort.
That's out of fucking control. I mean, even assuming those are the most sensationalist estimates, the realistic ones are out of control. That kind of underscores a larger problem with how the system is built, but that doesn't really shift the blame from the attackers to the victims by any means. But it doesn't really help determine an appropriate solution, either. Maybe you can pin specific costs on the attackers: new hardware, staff, bandwidth for the free games, overtime hours, etc., but estimates of lost sales are super nebulous. And since those people almost certainly can't pay back even a fraction of the losses, they get imprisoned as a sort of weird symbolic gesture that doesn't really help anyone figure out a better approach to what's going on. I dunno, man.
Last I checked, the Linux homebrew wasn't nearly sophisticated enough to run modified games online. I think they had barely decrypted the disc system for playing unofficial game media. Piracy was probably the big concern there. But I think the attack was in response to that whole extended lawsuit and subpoena of personal info for folks who even visited the websites of the groups working on the work arounds.
So the analogy doesn't really hold up.
That just doesn't read to me at all, but we're likely at an impasse attempting to infer another person's meaning.
edit: If this post were just slightly more combative, I might have pulled a Defender triple-shot there. So, uh, f u Jon.