To my Zergbros out there: do you ever feel like you don't actually have a build? Don't get me wrong, I have openings (14/14 speedling expand, 15h-> 2 base muta, etc). But I find they almost always go to hell as soon as I get a glimpse of what my opponent is up to. It decays into a chaotic hodgepodge of making drones and making monsters and smashing them into whatever he has.
It's only in ZvZ where I actually feel like I have a set build and plan that I follow and don't always turn on its head. I don't operate it on blind faith, but it has an actual structure to it with a vague timing.
You often hear that Z is the most reactive race, but it sometimes feels like my play gets a little too amorphous. Is this just a fact of life for Zerg? Or have I been doing it way, way wrong?
1st: CONGRATS JOE! You've officially made it to the league where, I believe, I saw the absolute most cheese ever. Keep climbing and I want to play you... once I get my new computer.
2nd: I am finally going to be getting a total back from the warranty people and blah, blah, blah, but it means that I will be back and WAY behind where I should be... On the plus side, I found a multiplayer flash tetris game (on my old computer that can't even run SC2...
seriously, what computer can't run SC2?
) and I was way too good at it with my 50 apm or so... T.T
PAers in the TL Fantasy GSTL: my team for this week is not in a good spot. Had to trade Fruitdealer for anypro. All protosses except for Nada and Sheth. Anti-team is Check and Maka. Sigh...
EDIT: Severian, Anzekay, and Dhal, I hope you lose all of those delicious points this week.
To my Zergbros out there: do you ever feel like you don't actually have a build? Don't get me wrong, I have openings (14/14 speedling expand, 15h-> 2 base muta, etc). But I find they almost always go to hell as soon as I get a glimpse of what my opponent is up to. It decays into a chaotic hodgepodge of making drones and making monsters and smashing them into whatever he has.
It's only in ZvZ where I actually feel like I have a set build and plan that I follow and don't always turn on its head. I don't operate it on blind faith, but it has an actual structure to it with a vague timing.
You often hear that Z is the most reactive race, but it sometimes feels like my play gets a little too amorphous. Is this just a fact of life for Zerg? Or have I been doing it way, way wrong?
we have some timing attacks but other than that there are no super concrete builds, its all situational reaction most of the time, what is he doing? How do i react? What can i get away with before im forced to react? I.e, how serious is his army? Can i afford lair and mutas or should i stick with....
But that being said there are ideal solutions to problems, such as how to handle a 2 rax, how to handle hellions that require general timings, but nothing ever concrete.
To my Zergbros out there: do you ever feel like you don't actually have a build? Don't get me wrong, I have openings (14/14 speedling expand, 15h-> 2 base muta, etc). But I find they almost always go to hell as soon as I get a glimpse of what my opponent is up to. It decays into a chaotic hodgepodge of making drones and making monsters and smashing them into whatever he has.
It's only in ZvZ where I actually feel like I have a set build and plan that I follow and don't always turn on its head. I don't operate it on blind faith, but it has an actual structure to it with a vague timing.
You often hear that Z is the most reactive race, but it sometimes feels like my play gets a little too amorphous. Is this just a fact of life for Zerg? Or have I been doing it way, way wrong?
I don't really have a "build," per say, other than the initial kick off early game, and even those aren't very well refined.
This is probably the main reason why I'm not masters though.
ed: I'm OK with this though, as I highly resist taking this game too seriously, because that's when it stops becoming fun.
"Fuckers have frenzy, and bitches dun be frontin' on frenzy."
hahah, it's like you start thinking about it and it gets really complicated! I'm got to explain about roots and mind control and why people have infestors in the first place when Ultras are so good
i don't think i've seen you ever build an ultra...
I ultralisk rushed you in your WFC! Before people started researching blink they were pretty good and I actually still think they're your best hive tech option in ZvZ
I... uh... don't remember most of my WFC games. I might have to do another WFC run when my ranking settles.
But best hive tech? I'll argue with you on that. Broods & cracklings are where its at.
To my Zergbros out there: do you ever feel like you don't actually have a build? Don't get me wrong, I have openings (14/14 speedling expand, 15h-> 2 base muta, etc). But I find they almost always go to hell as soon as I get a glimpse of what my opponent is up to. It decays into a chaotic hodgepodge of making drones and making monsters and smashing them into whatever he has.
It's only in ZvZ where I actually feel like I have a set build and plan that I follow and don't always turn on its head. I don't operate it on blind faith, but it has an actual structure to it with a vague timing.
You often hear that Z is the most reactive race, but it sometimes feels like my play gets a little too amorphous. Is this just a fact of life for Zerg? Or have I been doing it way, way wrong?
Sounds like how I play. My gas timings in ZvT and vP are solidly "when I have enough drones or maybe earlier unless I forget"
I... uh... don't remember most of my WFC games. I might have to do another WFC run when my ranking settles.
But best hive tech? I'll argue with you on that. Broods & cracklings are where its at.
Ew Cracklings, that's a good way to give your opponent the 50 kills achievement on an infestor I guess.
broods and cracklings... there's more shit thats attacking than they can possibly kill, and you're constantly reinforcing with more lings. christ, target one BL at your festor pile and watch them pop.
its the ultimate swarm attack. a never ending supply of 3/3 cracklings with bros adding more to the never ending blob of death.
and yes, you need to clear out the AOE's out before it works.
broods and cracklings... there's more shit thats attacking than they can possibly kill, and you're constantly reinforcing with more lings. christ, target one BL at your festor pile and watch them pop.
its the ultimate swarm attack. a never ending supply of 3/3 cracklings with bros adding more to the never ending blob of death.
and yes, you need to clear out the AOE's out before it works.
If you have the power to clear banelings and infestors from the field, you probably should've just gone mass roach hydra and washed over him
broods and cracklings... there's more shit thats attacking than they can possibly kill, and you're constantly reinforcing with more lings. christ, target one BL at your festor pile and watch them pop.
its the ultimate swarm attack. a never ending supply of 3/3 cracklings with bros adding more to the never ending blob of death.
and yes, you need to clear out the AOE's out before it works.
If you have the power to clear banelings and infestors from the field, you probably should've just gone mass roach hydra and washed over him
well, there are other matchups besides ZvZ...
and - i watched you v dhal where you went hydras - what was that strat?
broods and cracklings... there's more shit thats attacking than they can possibly kill, and you're constantly reinforcing with more lings. christ, target one BL at your festor pile and watch them pop.
its the ultimate swarm attack. a never ending supply of 3/3 cracklings with bros adding more to the never ending blob of death.
and yes, you need to clear out the AOE's out before it works.
If you have the power to clear banelings and infestors from the field, you probably should've just gone mass roach hydra and washed over him
well, there are other matchups besides ZvZ...
and - i watched you v dhal where you went hydras - what was that strat?
If you're thinking of the same game I am, Hydraling with +1 melee armor and range is pretty strong against any 2 base play that isn't a 6 gate.
It's good to know I'm not the only one that rolls that way with Zerg though it makes me want to nerd out and build a god damn flowchart of responses depending upon what I see.
broods and cracklings... there's more shit thats attacking than they can possibly kill, and you're constantly reinforcing with more lings. christ, target one BL at your festor pile and watch them pop.
its the ultimate swarm attack. a never ending supply of 3/3 cracklings with bros adding more to the never ending blob of death.
and yes, you need to clear out the AOE's out before it works.
If you have the power to clear banelings and infestors from the field, you probably should've just gone mass roach hydra and washed over him
well, there are other matchups besides ZvZ...
and - i watched you v dhal where you went hydras - what was that strat?
If you're thinking of the same game I am, Hydraling with +1 melee armor and range is pretty strong against any 2 base play that isn't a 6 gate.
(not on my home computer, or i'd check)
did you use 2 evos to get that out, or manage it on one?
It's good to know I'm not the only one that rolls that way with Zerg though it makes me want to nerd out and build a god damn flowchart of responses depending upon what I see.
it would definitely be lengthier than Terran's....
Huggles
Zombie Monkey
ZM
Hill
Erik
Ares
Cel
Shoe
Hat Sylem
Then the likelihood is that it is me!
Embrace it, love it
wait.... what?
MMMig on
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
0
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited June 2011
explaining starcraft from scratch, explaining why you like it and explaining why its so challenging makes you garner an appreciation for just how much stuff you have to keep track of in this game
To my Zergbros out there: do you ever feel like you don't actually have a build? Don't get me wrong, I have openings (14/14 speedling expand, 15h-> 2 base muta, etc). But I find they almost always go to hell as soon as I get a glimpse of what my opponent is up to. It decays into a chaotic hodgepodge of making drones and making monsters and smashing them into whatever he has.
It's only in ZvZ where I actually feel like I have a set build and plan that I follow and don't always turn on its head. I don't operate it on blind faith, but it has an actual structure to it with a vague timing.
You often hear that Z is the most reactive race, but it sometimes feels like my play gets a little too amorphous. Is this just a fact of life for Zerg? Or have I been doing it way, way wrong?
Sounds like how I play. My gas timings in ZvT and vP are solidly "when I have enough drones or maybe earlier unless I forget"
I do not like Blizzard's idea of stealth mechanics. I didn't like it back in the days of Gnomish Submarines in Warcraft 2, and they've never changed the way they work it one bit since then.
Your marines stand there a-herpin' and a-derpin' while a solitary DT cuts them in two one by one. Not a single marine will ever think that maybe it would be a good idea to shoot in that direction where all those swishing psi-blade noises keep occurring as his buddies spontaneously fall apart. Then your magical detector comes along! And suddenly they can all shoot again.
This concept of invisibility equalling total invincibility, enemies absolutely unable to fight back in the slightest even when you are standing right next to them, or firing missiles with obvious muzzle flashes, or whatever...it's gimmicky and silly, and it's unfortunate they haven't thought of a single way to improve it in 15 years.
The whole detectors vs cloakers just feels like a shallow minigame unnecessarily shoehorned into a great strategy game.
I do not like Blizzard's idea of stealth mechanics. I didn't like it back in the days of Gnomish Submarines in Warcraft 2, and they've never changed the way they work it one bit since then.
Your marines stand there a-herpin' and a-derpin' while a solitary DT cuts them in two one by one. Not a single marine will ever think that maybe it would be a good idea to shoot in that direction where all those swishing psi-blade noises keep occurring as his buddies spontaneously fall apart. Then your magical detector comes along! And suddenly they can all shoot again.
This concept of invisibility equalling total invincibility, enemies absolutely unable to fight back in the slightest even when you are standing right next to them, or firing missiles with obvious muzzle flashes, or whatever...it's gimmicky and silly, and it's unfortunate they haven't thought of a single way to improve it in 15 years.
The whole detectors vs cloakers just feels like a shallow minigame unnecessarily shoehorned into a great strategy game.
It isn't a gimmick, it is a gameplay element that is incredibly complex and ingrained into this game.
Oh I'm not making any sort of imba argument. I've been beaten by DTs, I've beaten people with DTs, I've beaten people who tried to use DTs. I just don't like it. It feels silly. It feels like a distraction from the "real" game.
badger2d on
Blizzard: Symphony #1704
Steam: badger2d
0
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
I do not like Blizzard's idea of stealth mechanics. I didn't like it back in the days of Gnomish Submarines in Warcraft 2, and they've never changed the way they work it one bit since then.
Your marines stand there a-herpin' and a-derpin' while a solitary DT cuts them in two one by one. Not a single marine will ever think that maybe it would be a good idea to shoot in that direction where all those swishing psi-blade noises keep occurring as his buddies spontaneously fall apart. Then your magical detector comes along! And suddenly they can all shoot again.
This concept of invisibility equalling total invincibility, enemies absolutely unable to fight back in the slightest even when you are standing right next to them, or firing missiles with obvious muzzle flashes, or whatever...it's gimmicky and silly, and it's unfortunate they haven't thought of a single way to improve it in 15 years.
The whole detectors vs cloakers just feels like a shallow minigame unnecessarily shoehorned into a great strategy game.
what is your idea to improve it without making detectors unnecessary
To my Zergbros out there: do you ever feel like you don't actually have a build? Don't get me wrong, I have openings (14/14 speedling expand, 15h-> 2 base muta, etc). But I find they almost always go to hell as soon as I get a glimpse of what my opponent is up to. It decays into a chaotic hodgepodge of making drones and making monsters and smashing them into whatever he has.
It's only in ZvZ where I actually feel like I have a set build and plan that I follow and don't always turn on its head. I don't operate it on blind faith, but it has an actual structure to it with a vague timing.
You often hear that Z is the most reactive race, but it sometimes feels like my play gets a little too amorphous. Is this just a fact of life for Zerg? Or have I been doing it way, way wrong?
Don't be fooled into thinking that playing "the reactive race" means that you don't have a plan. You should always have a plan (in particular, a strong mid-game goal in mind). Unlike the other races, it means that you should have several plans in place to deal with what you opponent throws at you.
Kambing on
@TwitchTV, @Youtube: master-level zerg ladder/customs, commentary, and random miscellany.
I do not like Blizzard's idea of stealth mechanics. I didn't like it back in the days of Gnomish Submarines in Warcraft 2, and they've never changed the way they work it one bit since then.
Your marines stand there a-herpin' and a-derpin' while a solitary DT cuts them in two one by one. Not a single marine will ever think that maybe it would be a good idea to shoot in that direction where all those swishing psi-blade noises keep occurring as his buddies spontaneously fall apart. Then your magical detector comes along! And suddenly they can all shoot again.
This concept of invisibility equalling total invincibility, enemies absolutely unable to fight back in the slightest even when you are standing right next to them, or firing missiles with obvious muzzle flashes, or whatever...it's gimmicky and silly, and it's unfortunate they haven't thought of a single way to improve it in 15 years.
The whole detectors vs cloakers just feels like a shallow minigame unnecessarily shoehorned into a great strategy game.
what is your idea to improve it without making detectors unnecessary
A grab-bag of ideas:
1. Cloaked units reveal themselves momentarily whenever they attack. Half a second, or something. I would combine this with removing the wavy distortion you see when cloaked units are moving where you're looking, but you don't have a detector. You can gain a positioning advantage in a fight with the stealth power, but no longer have the "I am invincible unless he has a detector" power.
2. Cloaked units can be fired at without a detector around, but in that case they take massively reduced damage. (An "accuracy" penalty, so to speak.)
3. Cloaked units are targetable without a detector present but only manually (i.e. your units will not auto-attack something invisible).
4. 2+3 would be best in combination I think, 3 is not much on its own. But I wanted to separate them for clarity's sake.
Don't be fooled into thinking that playing "the reactive race" means that you don't have a plan. You should always have a plan (in particular, a strong mid-game goal in mind). Unlike the other races, it means that you should have several plans in place to deal with what you opponent throws at you.
Speed ling/bling, muta(infestor), ultra/brood.
What am I missing?
Zerg isn't a religion you know...
chuckleberryfinn on
No Protoss players were underpowered during this post.
PAers in the TL Fantasy GSTL: my team for this week is not in a good spot. Had to trade Fruitdealer for anypro. All protosses except for Nada and Sheth. Anti-team is Check and Maka. Sigh...
EDIT: Severian, Anzekay, and Dhal, I hope you lose all of those delicious points this week.
I probably won't gain many, at least. My team was kinda front-loaded for the first week.
His Corkiness on
0
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
I do not like Blizzard's idea of stealth mechanics. I didn't like it back in the days of Gnomish Submarines in Warcraft 2, and they've never changed the way they work it one bit since then.
Your marines stand there a-herpin' and a-derpin' while a solitary DT cuts them in two one by one. Not a single marine will ever think that maybe it would be a good idea to shoot in that direction where all those swishing psi-blade noises keep occurring as his buddies spontaneously fall apart. Then your magical detector comes along! And suddenly they can all shoot again.
This concept of invisibility equalling total invincibility, enemies absolutely unable to fight back in the slightest even when you are standing right next to them, or firing missiles with obvious muzzle flashes, or whatever...it's gimmicky and silly, and it's unfortunate they haven't thought of a single way to improve it in 15 years.
The whole detectors vs cloakers just feels like a shallow minigame unnecessarily shoehorned into a great strategy game.
what is your idea to improve it without making detectors unnecessary
A grab-bag of ideas:
1. Cloaked units reveal themselves momentarily whenever they attack. Half a second, or something. I would combine this with removing the wavy distortion you see when cloaked units are moving where you're looking, but you don't have a detector. You can gain a positioning advantage in a fight with the stealth power, but no longer have the "I am invincible unless he has a detector" power.
2. Cloaked units can be fired at without a detector around, but in that case they take massively reduced damage. (An "accuracy" penalty, so to speak.)
3. Cloaked units are targetable without a detector present but only manually (i.e. your units will not auto-attack something invisible).
4. 2+3 would be best in combination I think, 3 is not much on its own. But I wanted to separate them for clarity's sake.
that pretty much makes detectors unnecessary
getting the tech for cloaked units is already a huge investment, a much bigger investment than getting detection is for any race
you SHOULD auto-lose if you know your opponent is teching and don't prepare for detection just in case
Dhalphir on
0
ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
I do not like Blizzard's idea of stealth mechanics. I didn't like it back in the days of Gnomish Submarines in Warcraft 2, and they've never changed the way they work it one bit since then.
Your marines stand there a-herpin' and a-derpin' while a solitary DT cuts them in two one by one. Not a single marine will ever think that maybe it would be a good idea to shoot in that direction where all those swishing psi-blade noises keep occurring as his buddies spontaneously fall apart. Then your magical detector comes along! And suddenly they can all shoot again.
This concept of invisibility equalling total invincibility, enemies absolutely unable to fight back in the slightest even when you are standing right next to them, or firing missiles with obvious muzzle flashes, or whatever...it's gimmicky and silly, and it's unfortunate they haven't thought of a single way to improve it in 15 years.
The whole detectors vs cloakers just feels like a shallow minigame unnecessarily shoehorned into a great strategy game.
what is your idea to improve it without making detectors unnecessary
A grab-bag of ideas:
1. Cloaked units reveal themselves momentarily whenever they attack. Half a second, or something. I would combine this with removing the wavy distortion you see when cloaked units are moving where you're looking, but you don't have a detector. You can gain a positioning advantage in a fight with the stealth power, but no longer have the "I am invincible unless he has a detector" power.
2. Cloaked units can be fired at without a detector around, but in that case they take massively reduced damage. (An "accuracy" penalty, so to speak.)
3. Cloaked units are targetable without a detector present but only manually (i.e. your units will not auto-attack something invisible).
4. 2+3 would be best in combination I think, 3 is not much on its own. But I wanted to separate them for clarity's sake.
that pretty much makes detectors unnecessary
getting the tech for cloaked units is already a huge investment, a much bigger investment than getting detection is for any race
you SHOULD auto-lose if you know your opponent is teching and don't prepare for detection just in case
Yeah, I don't see how this is different from losing because you let Zerg double expand and get like 15 mutas and weren't prepared.
Actually, I think mutas are worse. At least the cloaked units are super easy to kill once you have detection.
Don't be fooled into thinking that playing "the reactive race" means that you don't have a plan. You should always have a plan (in particular, a strong mid-game goal in mind). Unlike the other races, it means that you should have several plans in place to deal with what you opponent throws at you.
Speed ling/bling, muta(infestor), ultra/brood.
What am I missing?
Zerg isn't a religion you know...
A lot of things. Good play in general requires that you know what your responses to certain situations are and how they influence your goals. Zerg in particular needs these kinds of considerations because they can't control the tempo of the game until the mid-game where their production kicks in.
Assume that your mid-game goal is ling/bling/muta. A simple question is how you deal with blue flame hellions:
1) Do you drop a roach warren in response? If so, do you amend you mid-game goal to include roaches or do you stick with ling/bling/muta? Do you instead drop your bling nest earlier in response?
2) If you see BFHs, how does this affect your spire/bling speed timing? Do you prioritize a fast spire to gain map control? Do you prioritize bling speed to stop an early tank/marine follow-up?
3) When do you take your third? Do you wait until your spire is up before you go for it? Do you risk dropping the third even without map control if they commit to BFHs?
And all of this pivots on the amount of BFHs you see, the rest of the tech you scout, and the map, among other things. A good zerg will have responses in place for these sorts of possibilities.
Kambing on
@TwitchTV, @Youtube: master-level zerg ladder/customs, commentary, and random miscellany.
Posts
ZvP with a almost mined out metalopolis, wherein voidray/colossi is soundly destroyed by corruptor/fungal :P.
Also, amazing nydus play.
It's only in ZvZ where I actually feel like I have a set build and plan that I follow and don't always turn on its head. I don't operate it on blind faith, but it has an actual structure to it with a vague timing.
You often hear that Z is the most reactive race, but it sometimes feels like my play gets a little too amorphous. Is this just a fact of life for Zerg? Or have I been doing it way, way wrong?
2nd: I am finally going to be getting a total back from the warranty people and blah, blah, blah, but it means that I will be back and WAY behind where I should be... On the plus side, I found a multiplayer flash tetris game (on my old computer that can't even run SC2...
I need my Protoss back.
EDIT: Severian, Anzekay, and Dhal, I hope you lose all of those delicious points this week.
Steam ID
we have some timing attacks but other than that there are no super concrete builds, its all situational reaction most of the time, what is he doing? How do i react? What can i get away with before im forced to react? I.e, how serious is his army? Can i afford lair and mutas or should i stick with....
But that being said there are ideal solutions to problems, such as how to handle a 2 rax, how to handle hellions that require general timings, but nothing ever concrete.
I don't really have a "build," per say, other than the initial kick off early game, and even those aren't very well refined.
This is probably the main reason why I'm not masters though.
ed: I'm OK with this though, as I highly resist taking this game too seriously, because that's when it stops becoming fun.
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
I... uh... don't remember most of my WFC games. I might have to do another WFC run when my ranking settles.
But best hive tech? I'll argue with you on that. Broods & cracklings are where its at.
Joe's Stream.
Ew Cracklings, that's a good way to give your opponent the 50 kills achievement on an infestor I guess.
What's a build?
Sounds like how I play. My gas timings in ZvT and vP are solidly "when I have enough drones or maybe earlier unless I forget"
broods and cracklings... there's more shit thats attacking than they can possibly kill, and you're constantly reinforcing with more lings. christ, target one BL at your festor pile and watch them pop.
its the ultimate swarm attack. a never ending supply of 3/3 cracklings with bros adding more to the never ending blob of death.
and yes, you need to clear out the AOE's out before it works.
Joe's Stream.
If you have the power to clear banelings and infestors from the field, you probably should've just gone mass roach hydra and washed over him
Twitter interview thing with Artosis, fairly interesting.
well, there are other matchups besides ZvZ...
and - i watched you v dhal where you went hydras - what was that strat?
Joe's Stream.
enjoyable english like cella, but from a #66 GM in Korea! he also apparently took the latest TLOpen?
cool stuff
If you're thinking of the same game I am, Hydraling with +1 melee armor and range is pretty strong against any 2 base play that isn't a 6 gate.
(not on my home computer, or i'd check)
did you use 2 evos to get that out, or manage it on one?
Joe's Stream.
it would definitely be lengthier than Terran's....
Make Marines
Joe's Stream.
wait.... what?
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
Feel free to basque in the flood of ... lé fromage
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
hey thats how i play Z!
why i not so good as u
Your marines stand there a-herpin' and a-derpin' while a solitary DT cuts them in two one by one. Not a single marine will ever think that maybe it would be a good idea to shoot in that direction where all those swishing psi-blade noises keep occurring as his buddies spontaneously fall apart. Then your magical detector comes along! And suddenly they can all shoot again.
This concept of invisibility equalling total invincibility, enemies absolutely unable to fight back in the slightest even when you are standing right next to them, or firing missiles with obvious muzzle flashes, or whatever...it's gimmicky and silly, and it's unfortunate they haven't thought of a single way to improve it in 15 years.
The whole detectors vs cloakers just feels like a shallow minigame unnecessarily shoehorned into a great strategy game.
Steam: badger2d
Steam: adamjnet
dt's aren't that bad, especially compared to bw
Oh I'm not making any sort of imba argument. I've been beaten by DTs, I've beaten people with DTs, I've beaten people who tried to use DTs. I just don't like it. It feels silly. It feels like a distraction from the "real" game.
Steam: badger2d
what is your idea to improve it without making detectors unnecessary
This
Don't be fooled into thinking that playing "the reactive race" means that you don't have a plan. You should always have a plan (in particular, a strong mid-game goal in mind). Unlike the other races, it means that you should have several plans in place to deal with what you opponent throws at you.
A grab-bag of ideas:
1. Cloaked units reveal themselves momentarily whenever they attack. Half a second, or something. I would combine this with removing the wavy distortion you see when cloaked units are moving where you're looking, but you don't have a detector. You can gain a positioning advantage in a fight with the stealth power, but no longer have the "I am invincible unless he has a detector" power.
2. Cloaked units can be fired at without a detector around, but in that case they take massively reduced damage. (An "accuracy" penalty, so to speak.)
3. Cloaked units are targetable without a detector present but only manually (i.e. your units will not auto-attack something invisible).
4. 2+3 would be best in combination I think, 3 is not much on its own. But I wanted to separate them for clarity's sake.
Steam: badger2d
Speed ling/bling, muta(infestor), ultra/brood.
What am I missing?
Zerg isn't a religion you know...
that pretty much makes detectors unnecessary
getting the tech for cloaked units is already a huge investment, a much bigger investment than getting detection is for any race
you SHOULD auto-lose if you know your opponent is teching and don't prepare for detection just in case
Yeah, I don't see how this is different from losing because you let Zerg double expand and get like 15 mutas and weren't prepared.
Actually, I think mutas are worse. At least the cloaked units are super easy to kill once you have detection.
A lot of things. Good play in general requires that you know what your responses to certain situations are and how they influence your goals. Zerg in particular needs these kinds of considerations because they can't control the tempo of the game until the mid-game where their production kicks in.
Assume that your mid-game goal is ling/bling/muta. A simple question is how you deal with blue flame hellions:
1) Do you drop a roach warren in response? If so, do you amend you mid-game goal to include roaches or do you stick with ling/bling/muta? Do you instead drop your bling nest earlier in response?
2) If you see BFHs, how does this affect your spire/bling speed timing? Do you prioritize a fast spire to gain map control? Do you prioritize bling speed to stop an early tank/marine follow-up?
3) When do you take your third? Do you wait until your spire is up before you go for it? Do you risk dropping the third even without map control if they commit to BFHs?
And all of this pivots on the amount of BFHs you see, the rest of the tech you scout, and the map, among other things. A good zerg will have responses in place for these sorts of possibilities.