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Manhunt 2 NOT to be released in the UK

APZonerunnerAPZonerunner Registered User
edited August 2007 in Games and Technology
The BBFC - who are usually very reasonable - have rejected it's release.
British Classification body rules Rockstar cannot release upcoming PS2 and Wii sequel in the UK

With Take 2 already in turmoil following the recent company-wide restructuring, the group has been dealt another blow with the news that Rockstar’s upcoming sequel Manhunt 2 has been rejected by the BBFC, meaning it cannot legally be supplied anywhere in the UK.

The only other game to ever be rejected by the body was Carmageddon in 1997, though that decision was overturned by the Video Appeals Committee.

“Rejecting a work is a very serious action and one which we do not take lightly,” BBFC director David Cooke stated. “Where possible we try to consider cuts or, in the case of games, modifications which remove the material which contravenes the Board’s published Guidelines.

“In the case of Manhunt 2 this has not been possible. Manhunt 2 is distinguishable from recent high-end video games by its unremitting bleakness and callousness of tone in an overall game context which constantly encourages visceral killing with exceptionally little alleviation or distancing.

“There is sustained and cumulative casual sadism in the way in which these killings are committed, and encouraged, in the game.

“Although the difference should not be exaggerated the fact of the game’s unrelenting focus on stalking and brutal slaying and the sheer lack of alternative pleasures on offer to the gamer, together with the different overall narrative context, contribute towards differentiating this submission from the original Manhunt game.

“That work was classified ‘18’ in 2003, before the BBFC’s recent games research had been undertaken, but was already at the very top end of what the Board judged to be acceptable at that category.

“Against this background, the Board’s carefully considered view is that to issue a certificate to Manhunt 2, on either platform, would involve a range of unjustifiable harm risks, to both adults and minors, within the terms of the Video Recordings Act, and accordingly that its availability, even if statutorily confined to adults, would be unacceptable to the public.”

The BBFC are very good and... I actually trust their decision. While I'm sure that many of us can play it just fine, it probably IS too violent for general release. The original Manhunt was, in my opinion, violent for the sake of it and not in a way I found particularly compelling. But whatever. News.

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/27545/BBFC-rejects-Manhunt-2

APZonerunner on
APZonerunner | RPG Site | UFFSite | The Gaming Vault
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Posts

  • japanjapan Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Wait, PAL is all one region right? So theoretically, I should be able to import a copy from elsewhere in Europe , and it should play fine on my UK Wii, correct?

  • Mr_GrinchMr_Grinch Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    japan wrote: »
    Well, damn. Is there an effective way to run import Wii games yet? Hopefully a boot disk of some kind?

    Modchips nowadays I -think- will boot imports without any fiddling. The one I did have fitted (I removed it to play Mario Strikers for fear of being banned!) allowed me to play import games but I had to:

    Import disc
    Rip Disc (pain in arse)
    Patch iso
    Burn disc.

    But I think they do the patching on the fly now, so you should be able to get it modded and just whack in an original import and it'll play.

    I'm researching tonight for myself so I'll send you a pm if you like?

    Steam: Sir_Grinch
    PSN: SirGrinchX
    Xbox Live: SirGrinch X
  • Nexus ZeroNexus Zero Registered User
    edited June 2007
    What. The. Fuck. I thought it was going to be Germany or some other censorship-loving country. Turns out we're fucktards, too.

    sig.jpg
  • AntibodiesAntibodies Used to live in a psychic city. Never knew what would happen in a day. Chicago, ILRegistered User regular
    edited June 2007
    It doesn't matter how rational or clear headed or rare their censorship is- its wrong to disallow people to choose for themselves what they buy with the money they make. Definitely make it Adult Only or whatever the equivalent is to keep it out of children's hands, I agree completely. But to block the entire country from touching it at all is stupid, bummer for those who will have to import it now.

    I'm still looking forward to it on the Wii, I'm surprised there hasn't been more uproar about it really, I suppose with the release being upon us we'll start to hear about it.

    XBL: thetinwoodsman
  • TehSpectreTehSpectre @PixelateJake on TwitterRegistered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Antibodies wrote: »
    It doesn't matter how rational or clear headed or rare their censorship is- its wrong to disallow people to choose for themselves what they buy with the money they make. Definitely make it Adult Only or whatever the equivalent is to keep it out of children's hands, I agree completely. But to block the entire country from touching it at all is stupid, bummer for those who will have to import it now.

    I'm still looking forward to it on the Wii, I'm surprised there hasn't been more uproar about it really, I suppose with the release being upon us we'll start to hear about it.
    Seriously.

    I wouldn't want an edited Ichi the Killer.

    Spec_Banner.png
  • APZonerunnerAPZonerunner Registered User
    edited June 2007
    Doesn't it become a 50px-BBFC_R18_2002_onwards.png now, though? Meaning it can only be sold in licensed shops? (Like porn shops, as mostly hardcore porn gets this rating.

    APZonerunner | RPG Site | UFFSite | The Gaming Vault
    XBL/PSN/Steam: APZonerunner
  • ZiggymonZiggymon Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Doesn't it become a 50px-BBFC_R18_2002_onwards.png now, though? Meaning it can only be sold in licensed shops? (Like porn shops, as mostly hardcore porn gets this rating.

    that rating is usually restricted for porn only

    I have REZ for the Dreamcast PAL for sale £35. Other Excellent retro games for sale PM for details
  • Mr_GrinchMr_Grinch Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    I'm pretty sure they'll fight to over-turn this decision, otherwise their going to lose sales massively.

    I've got a modded PS2 already so importing it isn't an issue for that console, but damn it, I wanted the Wii version!

    Steam: Sir_Grinch
    PSN: SirGrinchX
    Xbox Live: SirGrinch X
  • japanjapan Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Mr_Grinch wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure they'll fight to over-turn this decision, otherwise their going to lose sales massively.

    I've got a modded PS2 already so importing it isn't an issue for that console, but damn it, I wanted the Wii version!

    I can't find a decent answer to this anywhere, but shouldn't it be possible to play a Wii disc from France, or The Netherlands without modifying the console?

  • JohnDoeJohnDoe Registered User
    edited June 2007
    The BBFC are very good and... I actually trust their decision.

    Indeed. The government must think for us and decide what materials are acceptable for me.

  • LeitnerLeitner Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    All this is coming off the back of that thing a while back where that manhunt-obsessed psycho kid killed another one with a spanner.

    The joy of tabloids. What actually happened was a manhunt obsessed killed got killed by another kid.

    I strongly disagree with this censorship. I may well be writing to my MP if I can find out how to contact her.
    JohnDoe wrote: »
    The BBFC are very good and... I actually trust their decision.

    Indeed. The government must think for us and decide what materials are acceptable for me.

    Who is the government made up of?

  • japanjapan Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Just got off the phone with Nintendo Europe. A UK Wii will play games from any other PAL region country (So, anywhere in Europe, or Australia).

    As long as it gets a PAL release somewhere, it should be easy to import.

    I realise that doesn't do anything about the BBFC decision, but there will probably be an appeal.

  • edited June 2007
    JohnDoe wrote: »
    The BBFC are very good and... I actually trust their decision.

    Indeed. The government must think for us and decide what materials are acceptable for me.

    i don't think the BBFC is a government body

  • japanjapan Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    bongi wrote: »
    JohnDoe wrote: »
    The BBFC are very good and... I actually trust their decision.

    Indeed. The government must think for us and decide what materials are acceptable for me.

    i don't think the BBFC is a government body

    And strictly speaking, the responsibility for enforcing the ratings rests with local authorities. They usually follow the BBFC's ratings, but don't have to if they so choose.

  • DarkWarriorDarkWarrior __BANNED USERS
    edited June 2007
    TehSpectre wrote: »
    The BBFC are very good and... I actually trust their decision. While I'm sure that many of us can play it just fine, it probably IS too violent for general release. The original Manhunt was, in my opinion, violent for the sake of it and not in a way I found particularly compelling. But whatever. News.

    http://www.mcvuk.com/news/27545/BBFC-rejects-Manhunt-2

    Sounds like censorship, plain and simple.

    I don't understand what you mean by "too violent for general release." I mean, I just don't understand what that means. Not at all.
    I agree.

    Should we ban bloody horror movies as well? They're too violent anyway.

    All this is coming off the back of that thing a while back where that manhunt-obsessed psycho kid killed another one with a spanner.

    You're whats wrong with the system, buying into crap the press posts. The police said the game was not involved in the murder and it was teh victim who owned it, not the killer. The killer was a junkie who needed money for a fix and killed him with a hammer. Then the victims parents decided to take their grief out on a game they must have bought for him.

    ...it's in the shape of a giant c**k.
  • The_ScarabThe_Scarab Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Shit, now I wont be able to buy the game I had no intention of buying anyways.


    Also, to all those who are like 'why is the government thinking for me' you should think long and hard about this game and what its release would mean.

    scarab you have mental problems
  • 12gauge12gauge Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    japan wrote: »
    Mr_Grinch wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure they'll fight to over-turn this decision, otherwise their going to lose sales massively.

    I've got a modded PS2 already so importing it isn't an issue for that console, but damn it, I wanted the Wii version!

    I can't find a decent answer to this anywhere, but shouldn't it be possible to play a Wii disc from France, or The Netherlands without modifying the console?

    It's no problem whatsoever - I import games from the UK all the time.

    davidoc0.jpg
  • RitchmeisterRitchmeister Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    This is a disgraceful decision.

  • J3pJ3p Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    We have always been at war with Eurasia.

    +./\ 50 ?. 50
  • AldoAldo Hippo Hooray the swamp, always the swampRegistered User regular
    edited June 2007
    The_Scarab wrote: »
    Shit, now I wont be able to buy the game I had no intention of buying anyways.


    Also, to all those who are like 'why is the government thinking for me' you should think long and hard about this game and what its release would mean.
    Err, it's release would mean there would just be another violent vidjagame we can use a scapegoat whenever someone <29 kills a person.

    Elendil wrote: »
    said Aldo hazily, before clop-clop-clopping out of the room
  • The_ScarabThe_Scarab Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Aldo wrote: »
    The_Scarab wrote: »
    Shit, now I wont be able to buy the game I had no intention of buying anyways.


    Also, to all those who are like 'why is the government thinking for me' you should think long and hard about this game and what its release would mean.
    Err, it's release would mean there would just be another violent vidjagame we can use a scapegoat whenever someone <29 kills a person.

    except unlike previous videogames who only feature violent themes this game features violent murders that you perform like for like with the Wiimote.

    Which, is not a scapegoat it is a legitimate reason for it to be banned.



    nb: it is also banned in australia.

    scarab you have mental problems
  • GlalGlal Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Nexus Zero wrote: »
    What. The. Fuck. I thought it was going to be Germany or some other censorship-loving country. Turns out we're fucktards, too.
    Germany *doesn't ban games. All those fucked up German game versions? The developers did that themselves so their games would get sold on shelves, rather than behind the counter.



    *the only exception are those with Nazi symbolism, and even then it might simply be forced off displays

  • 12gauge12gauge Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    The_Scarab wrote: »
    Aldo wrote: »
    The_Scarab wrote: »
    Shit, now I wont be able to buy the game I had no intention of buying anyways.


    Also, to all those who are like 'why is the government thinking for me' you should think long and hard about this game and what its release would mean.
    Err, it's release would mean there would just be another violent vidjagame we can use a scapegoat whenever someone <29 kills a person.

    except unlike previous videogames who only feature violent themes this game features violent murders that you perform like for like with the Wiimote.

    Which, is not a scapegoat it is a legitimate reason for it to be banned.



    nb: it is also banned in australia.

    I am wondering what Germany will do - will they just ban the sale to people under the age of 18 or will they make it illegal to sell it at all. And I am pretty sure at least one special bavarian minister of interior will go crazy about that "Killerspiel".

    davidoc0.jpg
  • AldoAldo Hippo Hooray the swamp, always the swampRegistered User regular
    edited June 2007
    The_Scarab wrote: »
    except unlike previous videogames who only feature violent themes this game features violent murders that you perform like for like with the Wiimote.

    Which, is not a scapegoat it is a legitimate reason for it to be banned.



    nb: it is also banned in australia.
    So you're saying it's a murder simulator, Jack?

    Elendil wrote: »
    said Aldo hazily, before clop-clop-clopping out of the room
  • Duchess ProzacDuchess Prozac Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    The_Scarab wrote: »
    Aldo wrote: »
    The_Scarab wrote: »
    Shit, now I wont be able to buy the game I had no intention of buying anyways.


    Also, to all those who are like 'why is the government thinking for me' you should think long and hard about this game and what its release would mean.
    Err, it's release would mean there would just be another violent vidjagame we can use a scapegoat whenever someone <29 kills a person.

    except unlike previous videogames who only feature violent themes this game features violent murders that you perform like for like with the Wiimote.

    Which, is not a scapegoat it is a legitimate reason for it to be banned.



    nb: it is also banned in australia.

    But what about the PS2 version? By your reckoning that should be okay, but that still been banned too.

    Besides just because it has waggle doesn't mean it shoould be banned. There is very little reason why anything should be banned. Its just the government (Yes, the BBFC isn't an 'offical' Body but they certainly pander to them) telling us what we can and can't do in the privacy of our own homes.

  • LeitnerLeitner Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Glal wrote: »
    *the only exception are those with Nazi symbolism, and even then it might simply be forced off displays

    No that's illegal and carrys a pretty hefty fine from what I remember.

  • japanjapan Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    12gauge wrote: »
    The_Scarab wrote: »
    Aldo wrote: »
    The_Scarab wrote: »
    Shit, now I wont be able to buy the game I had no intention of buying anyways.


    Also, to all those who are like 'why is the government thinking for me' you should think long and hard about this game and what its release would mean.
    Err, it's release would mean there would just be another violent vidjagame we can use a scapegoat whenever someone <29 kills a person.

    except unlike previous videogames who only feature violent themes this game features violent murders that you perform like for like with the Wiimote.

    Which, is not a scapegoat it is a legitimate reason for it to be banned.

    nb: it is also banned in australia.

    I am wondering what Germany will do - will they just ban the sale to people under the age of 18 or will they make it illegal to sell it at all. And I am pretty sure at least one special bavarian minister of interior will go crazy about that "Killerspiel".

    Doesn't Germany have some really wacky criteria for restricting games? I seem to recall something about not being allowed to portray violence against people (they have to be robots, or zombies, or something).

  • 12gauge12gauge Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Leitner wrote: »
    Glal wrote: »
    *the only exception are those with Nazi symbolism, and even then it might simply be forced off displays

    No that's legal and carrys a pretty hefty fine from what I remember.

    No Nazi symbols in games, as games are not considered art. No exceptions - EA got in deep shit because the packaging of Medal of Honor had screens from the english version.

    Edit: Because I am not ordering from germany usually and I am over eighteen anyway, I am not quite sure how it works (law was changed a few years ago). Basically, as far as I remember, the BPjS (Bundesprüfstelle für jugendgefährendende Schriften), same thing as the BFCC, checks every game by watching a "highlight reel" of the violence within, then slaps an age restriction on it. Until a few years ago, there was the possibility that a game was "indiziert" immediately - that means no commercials and no open sale, sale restricted to adults under the counter. Possession was still legal, as was selling to adults. This rarely happens anymore (or at all, as mentioned, law changed and I am not sure), because they got a new rating (basically a MA rating).

    davidoc0.jpg
  • AldoAldo Hippo Hooray the swamp, always the swampRegistered User regular
    edited June 2007
    japan wrote: »
    Doesn't Germany have some really wacky criteria for restricting games? I seem to recall something about not being allowed to portray violence against people (they have to be robots, or zombies, or something).
    I know they had to change the soldier-guys (forgot the name) in HL2 to robots to be allowed there. Not that it was a big change or anything.

    Elendil wrote: »
    said Aldo hazily, before clop-clop-clopping out of the room
  • -SPI--SPI- Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    12gauge wrote: »
    Leitner wrote: »
    Glal wrote: »
    *the only exception are those with Nazi symbolism, and even then it might simply be forced off displays

    No that's legal and carrys a pretty hefty fine from what I remember.

    No Nazi symbols in games, as games are not considered art. No exceptions - EA got in deep shit because the packaging of Medal of Honor had screens from the english version.
    Wait. Who do you fight in the german version of medal of honour? Robots? The Nasties?

    8t2qhu8l050f.jpg
  • ZiggymonZiggymon Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    The problem i see is that if its banned in the UK, Australia and most likely Germany, these are the 3 biggest markets within the PAL region and i doubt Take Two will think its profitable to release it if the major markets within the PAL region are all banning it.

    I have REZ for the Dreamcast PAL for sale £35. Other Excellent retro games for sale PM for details
  • The_ScarabThe_Scarab Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Aldo wrote: »
    The_Scarab wrote: »
    except unlike previous videogames who only feature violent themes this game features violent murders that you perform like for like with the Wiimote.

    Which, is not a scapegoat it is a legitimate reason for it to be banned.



    nb: it is also banned in australia.
    So you're saying it's a murder simulator, Jack?

    I agree with your sentiments. It is, the entire situation, just bullshit. I know its not a murder simulator and people are gonna be just as influenced by movies or TV or music.

    But I dont want to give ammo to these people who advocate Jack Thompsons kind of views on videogames. The game seems to be designed to create controversy from the ground up. It doesnt look fun, its nothing amazing. I wasnt going to buy it anyways.

    I just dont want that kind of game and the conotations of incidents in the public to tarnish video gaming as a whole.

    What Im saying is, would we really miss this game anyways if it was banned completely?

    scarab you have mental problems
  • JammersJammers Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Leitner wrote: »
    All this is coming off the back of that thing a while back where that manhunt-obsessed psycho kid killed another one with a spanner.

    The joy of tabloids. What actually happened was a manhunt obsessed killed got killed by another kid.

    I strongly disagree with this censorship. I may well be writing to my MP if I can find out how to contact her.

    http://www.writetothem.com/
    Just put in your post code and off you go.

    Xbox Live - Jammers007
    Nintendo Network ID - Jammers007
    3DS - 1418-6751-8378
    Steam - Jammers007
  • 12gauge12gauge Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    -SPI- wrote: »
    12gauge wrote: »
    Leitner wrote: »
    Glal wrote: »
    *the only exception are those with Nazi symbolism, and even then it might simply be forced off displays

    No that's legal and carrys a pretty hefty fine from what I remember.

    No Nazi symbols in games, as games are not considered art. No exceptions - EA got in deep shit because the packaging of Medal of Honor had screens from the english version.
    Wait. Who do you fight in the german version of medal of honour? Robots? The Nasties?
    You fight Nazis without swastikas basically. Less blood maybe too. But still humans (who remembers the abomination that was Soldier of Fortune 2 German Version ? They just replaced all human skin with metal and removed the blood, half life 1 also had robots instead of marines).

    davidoc0.jpg
  • The_ScarabThe_Scarab Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Didnt a game also have to change the red blood to green goo to be released in germany?

    Probably Earth Defense force.

    scarab you have mental problems
  • AldoAldo Hippo Hooray the swamp, always the swampRegistered User regular
    edited June 2007
    The_Scarab wrote: »
    I agree with your sentiments. It is, the entire situation, just bullshit. I know its not a murder simulator and people are gonna be just as influenced by movies or TV or music.

    But I dont want to give ammo to these people who advocate Jack Thompsons kind of views on videogames. The game seems to be designed to create controversy from the ground up. It doesnt look fun, its nothing amazing. I wasnt going to buy it anyways.

    I just dont want that kind of game and the conotations of incidents in the public to tarnish video gaming as a whole.

    What Im saying is, would we really miss this game anyways if it was banned completely?
    I don't think that is for the BBFC to decide. If it's a retarded stupid game, then it won't sell well (Postal2 comes to mind), otherwise, o-tay.

    You're not giving the loons ammo by banning all games that depict excessive violence, you're just doing what they want you to.

    Elendil wrote: »
    said Aldo hazily, before clop-clop-clopping out of the room
  • 12gauge12gauge Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    The_Scarab wrote: »
    Didnt a game also have to change the red blood to green goo to be released in germany?

    Probably Earth Defense force.

    That's the oldest trick in the book - a shitload of games had/have that.

    Edit: if anyone is interested - all games marked "indiziert" until 2005: http://forum.tcgs.de/showthread.php?t=59518

    davidoc0.jpg
  • AntibodiesAntibodies Used to live in a psychic city. Never knew what would happen in a day. Chicago, ILRegistered User regular
    edited June 2007
    The_Scarab wrote: »
    But I dont want to give ammo to these people who advocate Jack Thompsons kind of views on videogames. The game seems to be designed to create controversy from the ground up. It doesnt look fun, its nothing amazing. I wasnt going to buy it anyways.

    I just dont want that kind of game and the conotations of incidents in the public to tarnish video gaming as a whole.

    What Im saying is, would we really miss this game anyways if it was banned completely?

    I can empathize with this to an extent, really the less objectionable content there is to be found in videogames that might be controlling/influencing the vulnerable minds of the youth- the better. But there has to be better ways to keep these sorts of things out of their hands rather than cutting away entire facets and genres of a medium just because they are less harmless than others. Once one type of allowance has been made, surely others will follow until we are reduced to the most casual and empty of games.

    I find it odd how most people who trash the game have no interest in it, nor have they played the first. Though I am pleased to see how many have stood up against the banning/censorship of the game despite having no interest or even a dislike of the game. Truly the principle at work is more important than the game itself.

    XBL: thetinwoodsman
  • Shakey1245Shakey1245 Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Something of a conflict of interest with this one. I'd love to sit here and shout "This is wrong, freedom of speech" ect but I know almost for a fact that despite the best efforts of BBFC and the staff of games outlets across the country a percentage of either ill informed, ignorant or just plain stupid adults will buy this 18 rated game for thier child under the belief that "games are for kids".

    The BBFC shouldn't tell us what we can and cannot play BUT I don't want any child playing this and I know it will happen.

  • AldoAldo Hippo Hooray the swamp, always the swampRegistered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Antibodies wrote: »
    I can empathize with this to an extent, really the less objectionable content there is to be found in videogames that might be controlling/influencing the vulnerable minds of the youth- the better. But there has to be better ways to keep these sorts of things out of their hands rather than cutting away entire facets and genres of a medium just because they are less harmless than others. Once one type of allowance has been made, surely others will follow until we are reduced to the most casual and empty of games.

    I find it odd how most people who trash the game have no interest in it, nor have they played the first. Though I am pleased to see how many have stood up against the banning/censorship of the game despite having no interest or even a dislike of the game. Truly the principle at work is more important than the game itself.
    I wouldn't mind some games to be banned on the principle of too stupid to be allowed within a 100 mile ratio of me, but I rather have the market work that out, instead of Big Brother.

    Elendil wrote: »
    said Aldo hazily, before clop-clop-clopping out of the room
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