Team ICO - Last Guardian still being developed. No other news. Carry on.

klemming · October 2011

initiatefailure wrote:

Took me a while to figure out the first colossus. The game neglected to inform me of being able to charge my stabs... or it did and I was too busy trying to hold on to a behemoth.

The second one took a bit longer but by then I sort of knew basically what to do. Does the game move this fast the whole way with the way you transition from kill to your next target? It seems very jarring and I always assumed the game was a giant sprawl of wandering. Still though the collosi are a frustrating but fun experience so far and I assume they're going to keep getting larger and more complex.

They get a bit harder to find (later ones tend to be in shaded areas, so you can't use the sword to find them too easily), but there aren't any huge dungeons on the way or anything.
Wandering is more of a choice, but there are a fair number of areas you'll never see if you're just chasing colossi.

IceBurner · October 2011

Darlan wrote:

Man, I forgot how infuriating SOTC can be. I've spent like an hour trying to get the 4th colossus to look in those goddamn tunnels, and nothing. ICO's the better game by miles.

Edit: Finally! I didn't really do anything different when it worked, it just "took."

The trick with this, I realized, is

Spoiler:

Brym · October 2011

Just picked this up tonight. I'm starting with SoTC. Ico was one of my favorite PS2 games, but I never even finished SoTC. Figured I should give it another chance since it seems to get more love than Ico.

90 minutes in, and I'm only more convinced that Ico is the better game. Managing a grip bar and waiting for your character's flopping around animations to finish just isn't compelling gameplay. I'm going to push through to the end to see if I change my mind, but I'm not confident.

Brym · October 2011

A few more Colossi in, and this is growing on me. The game does sacrifice playability in order to make the game more cinematic at times, but man alive is the game beautiful as a result.

Also realizing why I never finished the game originally. I had a rental copy with no manual, so I didn't
know about the fruit or lizards. It got pretty tough by the end with no grip or health upgrades.

Maddoc · October 2011

It is worth noting, too, that the PS3 version is noticably worse in terms of "waiting for your character's flopping around animations to finish"

As in it's actually a worse game than the PS2 version because of this.

Vegan · October 2011

Brym wrote:

Also realizing why I never finished the game originally. I had a rental copy with no manual, so I didn't
know about the fruit or lizards. It got pretty tough by the end with no grip or health upgrades.

I'm pretty sure the manual didn't mention fruits or lizards. There's tons of stuff that the manual doesn't mention, like the secret horse moves. It's all part of the discovery process that they intended.

Maddoc wrote:

It is worth noting, too, that the PS3 version is noticably worse in terms of "waiting for your character's flopping around animations to finish"

As in it's actually a worse game than the PS2 version because of this.

That's too bad. It was the most frustrating part of the original version.

harvest · October 2011

There are secret horse moves? Like he knows kung-fu or something?

Muddy Water · October 2011

Eh, I haven't come across any fruits yet. Or I probably have, just didn't notice. I would never have thought of skewering the lizards if I hadn't read it on the internet. And I only wasted twenty minutes trying to grab a hawk 'cause a trophy mentioned it.

I guess I'm not playing the game properly 'cause I'm not really exploring. I'm just going after the colossi. But I am paying attention to my surroundings! They are pretty. So pretty, my surroundings.

I'm not exactly blown away. When I played Ico, I immediately got exactly why people hailed it as such a special game. SotC isn't really clicking for me in that way. Not to say that I'm not enjoying myself. I'm loving the whole process of looking for weaknesses on the colossi or looking for ways to expose that weakness by exploring the environment or trying whatever makes sense. However, the last two colossi I faced, numbers 9 and 10, those guys were just annoying.

Brym · October 2011

Vegan wrote:

Brym wrote:

Also realizing why I never finished the game originally. I had a rental copy with no manual, so I didn't
know about the fruit or lizards. It got pretty tough by the end with no grip or health upgrades.

I'm pretty sure the manual didn't mention fruits or lizards. There's tons of stuff that the manual doesn't mention, like the secret horse moves. It's all part of the discovery process that they intended.

Oh. The manual for the Ps3 collection does tell you about them, so I just assumed the original did too.

Mr_Grinch · October 2011

Maddoc wrote:

It is worth noting, too, that the PS3 version is noticably worse in terms of "waiting for your character's flopping around animations to finish"

As in it's actually a worse game than the PS2 version because of this.

Not really seeing this complaint, there are ways to get things done quicker (i.e jumping stab, does about as much damage as a charged stab but takes less time but slightly more coordination/skill). Though to be honest, in general, I'm not seeing more flailing than the PS2 version.

It amazes me how good these games still look.

wonderpug · October 2011

I got much closer to controller-throwing rage with this one because of the flailing. I'd make it to the right spot, be ready to stab, and I'd barely even be able to get a brief stab let alone a charged one. Sometimes I'd get shaken so much that I'd have to climb down someplace flat to recoup, having done little to no damage. I don't remember ever having that much trouble getting a stab in when I played the PS2 version.

That didn't happen with every stab point, though, and I made it through to the end. As to this being a worse game because of it--I don't know about that. The improved visuals plus the solid framerate--especially the solid framerate--put the remake on top, I think.

Unco-ordinated · October 2011

harvest wrote:

There are secret horse moves? Like he knows kung-fu or something?

No, but you can bring Agro to a direct halt, make him do a 180 turn and stand up then jump off him. None of this is explained, you have to figure it out for yourself.

Ceno · October 2011

You can also hang off sidesaddle. I believe you hold R1 and triangle, then press to the left or right on the left analog stick.

Unco-ordinated · October 2011

Ah yeah, I thought I was forgetting one.

I love the little touches Team Ico put in their games. Agro walking off to drink water or eat grass when you're doing stuff, being able to pat Agro, etc.

Brym · October 2011

Mr_Grinch wrote:

Maddoc wrote:

It is worth noting, too, that the PS3 version is noticably worse in terms of "waiting for your character's flopping around animations to finish"

As in it's actually a worse game than the PS2 version because of this.

Not really seeing this complaint, there are ways to get things done quicker (i.e jumping stab, does about as much damage as a charged stab but takes less time but slightly more coordination/skill). Though to be honest, in general, I'm not seeing more flailing than the PS2 version.

It amazes me how good these games still look.

Are you sure that this version is worse in terms of character flopping? I remember the original being just as bad.

Vegan · October 2011

Unco-ordinated wrote:

Ah yeah, I thought I was forgetting one.

I love the little touches Team Ico put in their games. Agro walking off to drink water or eat grass when you're doing stuff, being able to pat Agro, etc.

You can fully stand up while riding him, too. All of that stuff was undocumented.

klemming · October 2011

I'm really not sure about the character-flopping thing. Sometimes I could swear it's worse than it was on the PS2, but other times I manage to get kills far faster than I ever managed before.
The last boss is a good example of this; on the PS2, I always always always had trouble getting the deathblows on him, as he just moved around too much.
On PS3, I get him first time.

Halfhand · October 2011

Brym wrote:

A few more Colossi in, and this is growing on me. The game does sacrifice playability in order to make the game more cinematic at times, but man alive is the game beautiful as a result.

Also realizing why I never finished the game originally. I had a rental copy with no manual, so I didn't
know about the fruit or lizards. It got pretty tough by the end with no grip or health upgrades.

It's a very cinematic game. You kind of have to fall in love with the atmosphere to get over the gameplay haggles, but once you do it's seriously one of the best games ever.

Ico is completely genius because it's gameplay keeps you thinking all the time while thrusting you into gorgeous and amazing new environments constantly.

The only reason why I might put SotC over Ico is because it's just the most epic game ever made and the payoff is only matched by, like.. Silent Hill 2, Deus Ex, or maybe RDR.

Muddy Water · October 2011

Oh, my God @ Colossus number 13...

That was amazing.

wonderpug · October 2011

Unco-ordinated wrote:

I love the little touches Team Ico put in their games. Agro walking off to drink water or eat grass when you're doing stuff, being able to pat Agro, etc.

One example of that I really liked on this Ico playthrough

Spoiler:

I don't remember if I noticed that on my original playthrough. Just really adds to the believability of the characters and the world.

Muddy Water · October 2011

Okay, I had this problem with 15 and I'm having it with 16 as well. The annoying-as-shit flailing around. I've figured out what to do. I've made it to their vitals. God damn it, just lemme kill it. I can't get more than a couple of stabs in before I have to step away to let my grip meter restore. This isn't difficult, it's just fucking tedious. Keep R1 pressed 'till you get a 5-second window to stab the motherfucker for every 60 seconds of flailing. What fun!

Jebral · October 2011

both games seem to have their issues.... I for one find Ico, as great as it is, borderline unplayable when it insists on making me fight off shadow creatures with a stick. Simply not fun to the point that it sucks all the fun out of the game and makes want to not play anymore. I actually wish it had no bad guys or I could cheat myself and Yorda invulnerable or make all the enemies die in 1 hit or something.

Flailing colossi > stupid shadow buttholes

harvest · October 2011

I read that as 'shallow buttholes' and I was wondering how you found that out.

Muddy Water · October 2011

Phew. I actually died once and had to do the whole final colossus again. I went about it a lot more calmly this time. Took me about 15 minutes of stabbing.

But that ending? That ending was totally worth it.

These were both wonderful and unique games and I'm grateful that Sony re-released them, otherwise I might never have played them.

Brym · October 2011

Muddy Water wrote:

Phew. I actually died once and had to do the whole final colossus again. I went about it a lot more calmly this time. Took me about 15 minutes of stabbing. But that ending? That ending was totally worth it.

These were both wonderful and unique games and I'm grateful that Sony re-released them, otherwise I might never have played them.

I'm getting the sense that I'm going to understand the SotC>Ico point of view a lot better once I get to the end of SotC. Still managed not to have it spoiled so far!

Brym · October 2011

Jebral wrote:

both games seem to have their issues.... I for one find Ico, as great as it is, borderline unplayable when it insists on making me fight off shadow creatures with a stick. Simply not fun to the point that it sucks all the fun out of the game and makes want to not play anymore. I actually wish it had no bad guys or I could cheat myself and Yorda invulnerable or make all the enemies die in 1 hit or something.

Flailing colossi > stupid shadow buttholes

What don't you like about it?

I thought my wife would love Ico back when we first started dating in 2002, but she couldn't play it because she said it was "too creepy." She said a big part of that was the feeling of helplessness with having to fight with a stick. I asked if she would feel better if the game used a sword graphic (even if everything else about it behaved the same as the stick) and she said "yes."

Jebral · October 2011

Brym wrote:

Jebral wrote:

Flailing colossi > stupid shadow buttholes

What don't you like about it?

Well, I love the environments, exploration and atmosphere... I just hate the actual feel and mechanics of the fighting. Not the principle of using a stick or anything. That being said, it's not like combat is major part of the game, I just roll my eyes and trudge on through when it pops up.

Mr_Grinch · October 2011

I haven't really found the combat difficult. I'm three hours in and have only 'died' due to Yorda being dragged down once. The game keeps me on edge though, every time I have to leave her to perform a platforming segment I'm terrified of the damn things appearing.

::Edit:: The main complaint I have with Ico is the damn camera.

Brym · October 2011

Mr_Grinch wrote:

::Edit:: The main complaint I have with Ico is the damn camera.

That's my biggest fear in my upcoming replay of it. That's the area where standards have really advanced in the last 10 years, and I'm a lot less forgiving of a bad camera now than I was then.

Mr_Grinch · October 2011

It's like it's fixed in a place and you can just sort of pivot it. Most of the time it gives you a good enough view but in some fights it becomes infuriating.

Maddoc · October 2011

When you're exploring the incredible environment and solving puzzles, ICO is a treasure.

Whenever a shadow appears, it becomes punishingly unfun. At least early on, anyway. Once you get a better weapon at least killing them doesn't take like six hits. (During which you knock them over and have to wait for them to get up)

Muddy Water · October 2011

Thoughts:

I wish I didn't have to kill number thirteen. I wish I could just hold on to his back while the camera zoomed out and he flew over the entire land.

I think I'd prefer it if both the games had ended without the tag after the credits. Just seems like a wuss-out. Though I guess SotC's was necessary to explain its position in the mythology.

Now that I've finally played these two, I'm actually disappointed that The Last Guardian is what it is. Ico and SotC are so different in terms of what you do, even though they're quite similar thematically. The Last Guardian just seems so... familiar. Exploring ruins with your pet colossus. Nothing against that concept; I have full faith that it'll be fantastic. It's just that if I'd been paying attention five years ago, when they first revealed SotC, my mind would've been blown. What intrigues me most about The Last Guardian is the team behind it, not the premise.

Lastly, why does the manual call him "Wanda"?

Brym wrote:

Muddy Water wrote:

Phew. I actually died once and had to do the whole final colossus again. I went about it a lot more calmly this time. Took me about 15 minutes of stabbing. But that ending? That ending was totally worth it.

These were both wonderful and unique games and I'm grateful that Sony re-released them, otherwise I might never have played them.

I'm getting the sense that I'm going to understand the SotC>Ico point of view a lot better once I get to the end of SotC. Still managed not to have it spoiled so far!

That might ultimately come down to personal preference. I thought they were both great and won't pick a favourite.

l337CrappyJack · October 2011

Aside from trophies and HD, there's no

Muddy Water wrote:

Thoughts:

I wish I didn't have to kill number thirteen. I wish I could just hold on to his back while the camera zoomed out and he flew over the entire land.

I think I'd prefer it if both the games had ended without the tag after the credits. Just seems like a wuss-out. Though I guess SotC's was necessary to explain its position in the mythology.

Now that I've finally played these two, I'm actually disappointed that The Last Guardian is what it is. Ico and SotC are so different in terms of what you do, even though they're quite similar thematically. The Last Guardian just seems so... familiar. Exploring ruins with your pet colossus. Nothing against that concept; I have full faith that it'll be fantastic. It's just that if I'd been paying attention five years ago, when they first revealed SotC, my mind would've been blown. What intrigues me most about The Last Guardian is the team behind it, not the premise.

Lastly, why does the manual call him "Wanda"?

Because Wanda is his name in the Japanese version. We call him Wander because the localization team noticed that he had a girl's name.

Brym · October 2011

l337CrappyJack wrote:

Aside from trophies and HD, there's no

Muddy Water wrote:

Thoughts:

I wish I didn't have to kill number thirteen. I wish I could just hold on to his back while the camera zoomed out and he flew over the entire land.

I think I'd prefer it if both the games had ended without the tag after the credits. Just seems like a wuss-out. Though I guess SotC's was necessary to explain its position in the mythology.

Now that I've finally played these two, I'm actually disappointed that The Last Guardian is what it is. Ico and SotC are so different in terms of what you do, even though they're quite similar thematically. The Last Guardian just seems so... familiar. Exploring ruins with your pet colossus. Nothing against that concept; I have full faith that it'll be fantastic. It's just that if I'd been paying attention five years ago, when they first revealed SotC, my mind would've been blown. What intrigues me most about The Last Guardian is the team behind it, not the premise.

Lastly, why does the manual call him "Wanda"?

Because Wanda is his name in the Japanese version. We call him Wander because the localization team noticed that he had a girl's name.

Wasn't the title during development Wanda and the Colossus? I seem to remember that. Sounds way less badass.

l337CrappyJack · October 2011

Not just in development; the game's title is Wanda and the Colossus in Japan. It's Shadow of the Colossus in English speaking countries.

DarkPrimus · October 2011

They didn't put the "ru" on the end because it still sounded fine as a romanization of "Wander". With the extra bit on the end, people might think it's "Wanderer".

Unco-ordinated · October 2011

l337CrappyJack wrote:

Because Wanda is his name in the Japanese version. We call him Wander because the localization team noticed that he had a girl's name.

Yeah. The idiots that made the manual probably didn't pay much attention when they changed it. I assume they've used the same manuals for the collection? Or did they find a second, somehow even more incompetent, group of idiots?

Vegan · October 2011

DarkPrimus wrote:

They didn't put the "ru" on the end because it still sounded fine as a romanization of "Wander". With the extra bit on the end, people might think it's "Wanderer".

Which would actually be pretty decent.

orionminus · October 2011

Picked this up at Best Buy for $24.99 a few days ago.

Never played either. Which game should I play first: Ico or Shadow?

Muddy Water · October 2011

Ico

Penny Arcade

Team ICO - Last Guardian still being developed. No other news. Carry on.

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