As was foretold, we've added advertisements to the forums! If you have questions, or if you encounter any bugs, please visit this thread: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/240191/forum-advertisement-faq-and-reports-thread/
MMORPG innovation. Spill your ideas for companies to steal!
eobet
8-bit childhoodSwedenRegistered User regular
8-bit childhoodSwedenRegistered User regular
Asian MMORPGs are a constant grind, but are western MMORPGs any better?
First, let me tell you about how different a MMORPG can be. Imagine a game where you are thrust into a world, but unable to continue without the guidance and mentorship or other players. Imagine a game with laws created by the players themselves, who in order to write said laws have to carry an office, which in turn, they have to gain the votes of other players in order to achieve. Imagine a game where you can attend church masses, university lectures, theatric performances and sports games... and they're all conducted by the players themselves, supported by the developers, and rewarded with experience! This game exists, and it is called Dark Ages by Nexon, and it's bloody well near 10 years old!
(An interesting side note for you RP fans, Dark Ages has an in-game RP explanation and word for EVERYTHING, including being afk, logging off and experiencing lag! It even censors the word "lol". Too bad that it's almost every player's goal to fuck around and break every rule they set... sigh...)
Can anyone but me remember when Ultima Online (before its release) promised fully dynamic quests? A quest eco system even! I think the example given was a deer herd moving into dragon territory, causing the dragon to eat through them and continue onto a farmer's sheep, who then put out a quest to have it slain.
What the hell happened?
Instead, we have:
* Mining. Lumps of rocks which randomly appear. Why not a skill which lets you prospect a large area to dig in, perhaps set up semi-permanent shafts, perhaps even create small mines, perhaps dig too deep and have something nasty appear. Or just wash/pan for gold by rivers like in reality.
* Farming. Again, setting up semi-permanent fields. Or perhaps rent small lots in backyards in the cities and villages to grow stuff in. Imagine having pumpkin growing contests in the game!
* Pets. Magically bring forth and then have pets disappear? If you can do something that powerful, how come you don't have other great powers? And what does the pet think about being in limbo all the time? Come on, there must be a better system.
* Crafting. This, in general, is so boring without proper merchant skills. Lots of Asian MMORPGs let you set up your own shops. Why can't we see that in a western game as well? (No racial jokes, please...)
* Rare items. Some items are rare, but it's really just a matter of time you are willing to spend. How many MMORPGs have items which are truly unique, and not limitless? And how many balance this in a good and interesting fashion?
* Status quo. No matter what you do in the game, everything remains the same. Everyone is a hero and nobody is a hero. What if you could conquer a city with your guild? Dark Age of Camelot has some of this, but locks it neatly away in confined areas. Then again, was it Shadow Bane which had everything dynamic, and look what happened to that one...
* Monster spawning. How do you logically explain a monster which simply pops into view? And why do they have to pop at exactly the same bloody spot at all times? Why can't they wander into view, and wander around? At least emerge from behind something, so as to try to make an effort.
* Dumb monsters. Short sighted, selfish bloody statues. Why can't we have monsters that hunt? Enemies that actually help each other. I guess EQ and LOTRO(?) tries to do something about this by letting you play a monster?
* Combat. Oh, the joy of auto-combat. Touch one button and watch paint dry (but with lovely particle effects). Tabula Rasa and Dofus tries to do something about this, but does anyone have any other ideas?
Anyway, I'm not on my home computer for the rest of the week, but on it, I have a file with more ideas for MMORPG games. In the meantime, why don't you fill in with your suggestions and ideas? Perhaps we can get a nice discussion going! Oh, and I know some custom UO shards have many cool features, like renting rooms/shops and such, and even permanent deaths, which really makes you feel like someone in the world.
First, let me tell you about how different a MMORPG can be. Imagine a game where you are thrust into a world, but unable to continue without the guidance and mentorship or other players. Imagine a game with laws created by the players themselves, who in order to write said laws have to carry an office, which in turn, they have to gain the votes of other players in order to achieve. Imagine a game where you can attend church masses, university lectures, theatric performances and sports games... and they're all conducted by the players themselves, supported by the developers, and rewarded with experience! This game exists, and it is called Dark Ages by Nexon, and it's bloody well near 10 years old!
(An interesting side note for you RP fans, Dark Ages has an in-game RP explanation and word for EVERYTHING, including being afk, logging off and experiencing lag! It even censors the word "lol". Too bad that it's almost every player's goal to fuck around and break every rule they set... sigh...)
Can anyone but me remember when Ultima Online (before its release) promised fully dynamic quests? A quest eco system even! I think the example given was a deer herd moving into dragon territory, causing the dragon to eat through them and continue onto a farmer's sheep, who then put out a quest to have it slain.
What the hell happened?
Instead, we have:
* Mining. Lumps of rocks which randomly appear. Why not a skill which lets you prospect a large area to dig in, perhaps set up semi-permanent shafts, perhaps even create small mines, perhaps dig too deep and have something nasty appear. Or just wash/pan for gold by rivers like in reality.
* Farming. Again, setting up semi-permanent fields. Or perhaps rent small lots in backyards in the cities and villages to grow stuff in. Imagine having pumpkin growing contests in the game!
* Pets. Magically bring forth and then have pets disappear? If you can do something that powerful, how come you don't have other great powers? And what does the pet think about being in limbo all the time? Come on, there must be a better system.
* Crafting. This, in general, is so boring without proper merchant skills. Lots of Asian MMORPGs let you set up your own shops. Why can't we see that in a western game as well? (No racial jokes, please...)
* Rare items. Some items are rare, but it's really just a matter of time you are willing to spend. How many MMORPGs have items which are truly unique, and not limitless? And how many balance this in a good and interesting fashion?
* Status quo. No matter what you do in the game, everything remains the same. Everyone is a hero and nobody is a hero. What if you could conquer a city with your guild? Dark Age of Camelot has some of this, but locks it neatly away in confined areas. Then again, was it Shadow Bane which had everything dynamic, and look what happened to that one...
* Monster spawning. How do you logically explain a monster which simply pops into view? And why do they have to pop at exactly the same bloody spot at all times? Why can't they wander into view, and wander around? At least emerge from behind something, so as to try to make an effort.
* Dumb monsters. Short sighted, selfish bloody statues. Why can't we have monsters that hunt? Enemies that actually help each other. I guess EQ and LOTRO(?) tries to do something about this by letting you play a monster?
* Combat. Oh, the joy of auto-combat. Touch one button and watch paint dry (but with lovely particle effects). Tabula Rasa and Dofus tries to do something about this, but does anyone have any other ideas?
Anyway, I'm not on my home computer for the rest of the week, but on it, I have a file with more ideas for MMORPG games. In the meantime, why don't you fill in with your suggestions and ideas? Perhaps we can get a nice discussion going! Oh, and I know some custom UO shards have many cool features, like renting rooms/shops and such, and even permanent deaths, which really makes you feel like someone in the world.
Heard the proposition that RIAA and MPAA should join forces and form "Music And Film Industry Association"?
eobet on
0
This discussion has been closed.
Posts
My suggestion to you? http://www.atitd.com/
It's your own fault for being limited.
--
Heck, these days there are graphical places like that.
But you have to put up with furries once in awhile.
At least until you isolate yourself.
I mean, I like the idea of a lot of classes with a lot of variety in them but it still sounds like a grind to me, at least the way you described it.
League of Legends (your friendly neighborhood support): PAPRPL8
Basically, when you're at the character login screen, a little picture-in-picture would display the area around where you logged in. Preferably in real time.
Might cause too much lag/be exploitable, though. But DAMN it would be nice.
It's not a huge innovation, it would just be a great quality of life feature. Think about it, being able to see if there's any nearby griefers or monsters by your login area, and hence being, well, not caught off guard.
Imagine a MMOG with no players.
MMOG's live and die with their communities. Innovation and pseudo-realism is all well and good, but if the majority doesn't enjoy it and want to pay for it, it gets shitcanned and rightly so.
Transformers!
That would kick epic amounts of ass. Not to mention it being like the absolute most perfect concept to turn into an mmo.
I never asked for this!
Yeah, ATITD has pretty much everything the Op was asking for, crafting-wise. No combat, but that's not the point of the game.
I think what you've described is runescape with a little more depth.
The whole story is about two factions fighting an eternal struggle? A huge universe full of content to implement? People die and come back all the time? Being able to turn into cars and planes and stuff is totally awesome? Optimus Prime?
Not to mention its already got things like levels and power ups to use for a leveling system. Who wouldn't want to play an mmo where you can fight along side Optimus Prime or Megatron as an robot in disguise?
I never asked for this!
WRONG!
That is not what this thread is about. You see, a good setting is not enough. Just look at the Star Wars MMORPG and probably also LOTRO (perhaps even Warhammer and Star Trek).
Very early on, when they opened the Star Trek MMORPG forums, I was there and asked if they were going to offer non-lethal and non-combat solutions to all of their quests, since that is part of the Gene Roddenberry spirit of it all.
They never dared to do it, and it seems that combat grind is now a part of the game.
Truly sad.
They could easily have done diplomatic or engineering solutions to quests or encounters with mini-games, for example.
More seriously, I'm not sure if this falls in the MMO category, as it is more of a highly interactive lounge. Imagine a town fully comprised of Miis. These Miis are mostly real people, with some npc Miis. There's a coffee shop over in the corner for people to go and chat, maybe there's a bus stop for newbies to get on to tour the city/town or to drop off by the spots center.
Let's say you don't want to just socialize, but actually want to do stuff with your friends/guild. You all go to the tennis courts and play. You are given different options: Play solo or doubles versus the computer for exp, or play against friends for fun, singles or doubles. Exp can then be used to purchase a new racket that looks cooler, or cooler looking running shoes, etc. Stuff that lets you customize your Mii when you're playing tennis. Nintendo could host big tournaments by region on this virtual community, and let people be part of the crowd and watch the Pros play. Skill is the determining factor.
You could have an area to go karting with friends, with the same options. You have 8 buddies? Cool, do a Mario Kart type thing where everyone plays, or by yourself vs the comp for Exp to buy different looking wheels or whatever to customize your ride. The possibilities are pretty much endless: whatever mini-game type nintendo wants to put in there, they could. Soccer, volleyball, football, baseball, etc. The exp isn't necessarily to get "better" gear, but just to customize your stuff and kinda show that you're pimp. If you made Pro (past a certain points of EXP) in certain sports, you'd maybe get a star above your Mii while walking around the city to show off your stuff.
Of course, Nintendo could charge 15$/month for this stuff, and call the game Nintendo Citii or something along those double ii they seem to favor. Clearly though, this doesn't have to be a Nintendo thing, but it just seems to be that their console and controller would lend itself the best to it for the widest audience.
They could easily add RPG elements to it if they wanted to, and make a mini RPG section for people to do their more traditional leveling up. Or add sections that require you own a specific game - let's say you own Pokemon Uber Platinum Falafel edition. The game comes with a Citii code, and you can enter it on your own Wii. Then, when you're roaming the Citii, you have access to the Pokemon Ring and can duel people there. Same with any games they have they'd want to add.
It's not really a traditional MMO, because a lot of the competitiveness is kind of taken away - it's more of a cool place to hang out and play a ton of different games with people across the globe. It's appealing to the casual gamer and to the more hardcore gamer.
they don't it be like it is but it do
I did not like LOTRO because it didn't live up to my vision of Tolkien but that's just me.
A good MMOFPS is what I'm lookin for but still have not found.
Planetside (with nerfed reavers and no BFRs) v2.0 GO!
gg.
I'm not sure what Nintendo will do with their Miis, but I'm betting Sony is adding those very ideas to their "Home" thingy right this minute.
But thats just it a good setting can be enough as long as you actually stick to that setting and follow through with it.
A good setting and fun gameplay are all an mmo needs.
I never asked for this!
while i highly, highly, highly doubt the chances of somebody stealing one and actually being successful (most people lack the drive required), it's still never good to post your own brainchild's on a public forum.
most of all, most of all
someone said true love was dead
but i'm bound to fall
bound to fall for you
oh what can i do
I like the way you think. Someone should hire you to think. You'd be the head of the thinking department and have a bunch of thinkers thinking under you.
The Sixth Annual Triwizard Drinking Tournament Part 1 |
Pokecrawl Episode 4: The Power Of One!
Portalflip
Pokemon X: Atlus | 3539-8807-3813
you would be like house only slightly less gay.
most of all, most of all
someone said true love was dead
but i'm bound to fall
bound to fall for you
oh what can i do
Pick up sturdy stick
Pick up sharp rock
Use sharp rock on vines
Pick up vines
Use stick with rock with vines
Congrats, you now have a stone spear!
As for a class system, players initially start off as the caveman class but with alot of skill training and leveling can branch off either into either gatherers or hunters.
>Gatherers are obviously a more support themed role but extremely important, these folks can carry more items, can craft more and better quality objects, get better results from foraging and etc...
>Hunters are obviously aimed at providing food on the table and at defending the tribe from the myriad of dangers that haunt the tribe. Better skilled in combat, tracking and extracting resources from slain animals, they can still do most of the things that a gatherer can do, it's just not as effective.
Further progression may lead gatherers into engineers, priests, shamans, crafters, farmers, etc... While hunters may eventually branch off into things like trappers, scouts, rangers, beast masters, etc...
Social contact is necessary for all advancement in the game, which means people need to join tribes in order to prosper. Why is that? Several reasons actually.
>The first reason is all the threats posed by outside forces. Sabertooth tigers, packs of wolves, dinosaurs that have not yet gone extinct (wink wink), hell did you guys watch prehistoric week on the discovery channel? Live was a bitch for prehistoric man. And let's not forget how much of an asshole we humans can get. Your tribe is competing to survive in a hostile environment with other tribes, perhaps you'll get along. More likely you'll be brought into direct confrontation against tribes. Whether through direct physical contact in battle, sneaky raids, even sneakier enemy spies causing dissent and spreading rumours, one should keep an eye out on their closest neighbours.
>The second reason is that, working together everyone advances faster. Yes you could spend your time crafting weapons and trying desperately to kill a rabbit but it's just not efficient. Now, if you have 10 guys working with you, things become far better.
-4 guys start crafting high quality spears (Whereas the other players could only make poor or mediocre quality weapons) from resources gathered by the other players
-Who then give the spears it to Trogg the herbalist who smears rare poisonous berries on it, giving it an extra edge
-Zugrok the tracker then tells the other tribe members that he has found a lone mammoth in nearby location.
-Now with their prey in sight, Mogg the keeper of the flame starts waving a torch around which scares the mammoth next to a cliff
-The other players, who were waiting at the cliff then ambush the mammoth and bring it down after a couple dozen spears penetrated it
-Now the hunter players carve the meat, bones, ivory and fur (getting better results from it)
-With an abundance of food, the influx of bones and ivory promises better quality weapons and magical talismens while the fur promises everyone gets at the very least some warm furry undies
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
You'd just need to mix some elements from CoH/V and Auto Assault together.
--
Personally, I'd love to see a super-powered fantasy setting. More Eastern version Western fantasy, like in Slayers and the sort, and with effects that actually take advantage of interesting combination ideas.
I want to fly up to a dragon's face and shove a super-cooled magical sphere down its throat, then turn my hand in to flame, punch through the dragon's neck to touch the sphere, causing the sphere to explode and splatter neck cutlets all over the landscape.
All the famous characters
Make combat in the 3rd person
You can choose your own secondary form
Dinobots
And it would sell millions
More like "most 100-man teams lack the drive required". The pole on which the shitstained mmorpg flag
waves is manpower, not ideas. If anything, mmorpgs today are the antithesis of game design creativity. They are designed to do one god damn thing and that is to drain your ass of your hard earned cash. That is literally the one thing they are intended to do.
Here's my idea for an mmorpg;
It immediatly uninstalls itself, instead prompting you to play other games instead that you pay less for both in time and money, and give you greater narrative and conceptual feedback to your in game actions, in addition to posing a proper challenge for you to overcome other than wanking off your character level after level.
MMOGs are knives in the back of what has made games great. I played WoW for a year and AO for 2, and i haven't a single memory from it that made that loss of time and money worth it. Fuck that shit.
www.doomsday.no
www.myspace.com/sunjammer
That's because you played a mediocre game (AO) and a rehashed piece of shit game (WoW). AC: DT and Planetside were both original ideas that played out well until the devs drove them into the ground. If either Turbine or SOE came out with an announcement that they were re-releasing the games with updated graphics engines and reverting back to the original versions and patching from there with what they know now I would play either in a heartbeat.
But games like WoW can suck a fat, unoriginal, Everquest-biting cock.
Edit: I still have the CDs even.
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
The goal is to go into threads discussing something you don't have a taste for and to do your best to take a big ol' steaming dump all over it.
Bonus points if you act as if your opinions are absolute fact in the face of millions of people who disagree with you.
Who cares if WoW is polished? It polished the most bland, overdone aspects of games that came out 8 years ago, threw in some shitty PvP, and sold millions because it's Blizzard.
I had more fun raiding in EQ, I had more fun PvPing in DAoC. WoW was sort of a merge of the two pumped out by a developer everyone loved and dumbed waaaay down so everyone could play it. That's a recipe for success, not an amazing game. Amazingly bland and palatable for the masses, yes, but not even close to innovative.
Alot of people rag on it having bad pvp, I'm inclined to agree with them based on what pvp was when i left the game and what it seems to have turned into what with arenas and stuff. But let me tell you lads, honour week was the most intense and chaotic pvp action i have ever experienced in an mmo game.
My guild was a small, mature aged and family oriented group, but after much insistence we still managed to round up a small vanguard headed by myself to engage the filthy heathen hordes. We fought in many battles across the entire wow world alongside countless other free companies and hundreds of conscripted individuals. When honour week came in, it was near impossible to do any questing since there were always battles in quest spots, gankings in neutral towns, assassinations of quest npcs, and most of the time players were inadvertently conscripted into conflict just so they can bring back 20 murloc livers and get their 10 silver, men have been killed for lesser reasons.
In bloody Hillsbrad where battles kept swaying due to the waves of npc guards that would spawn. It was not long before both sides begin using mages to wipe out attacking npcs with all other forces defending and supporting the mages.
In Booty Bay, the name of the game is urban warfare. Both sides attempted to bait the other into committing forces, only to outflank them with forces hiding in buildings. The ranged classes, especially the hunter became king of the city. Sniping enemy targets from roof tops or any number of high level buildings. Many times our battered forces had to endure amphibious assaults and horde marines from the barrens.
In the wilds of Gankathorn Vale, Ashenvale and Felwood, our company found itself vastly outnumbered as most alliance volunteers were posted to the defense of villages and townships. We had to engage the enemy in guerrilla warfare, using hit and run tactics, ambushes and feints within the thick foliage.
It's too bad not everybody can be as HARDKORE as you an enjoy the same HARDKORE games that you enjoy. I mean, how DARE they enjoy a game that you don't?
People seem to have this misconception that if they don't enjoy something, then it's not a good game for anybody. This goes along perfectly with nostalgia, resulting in, "you kids these days don't know what good games are." Your opinions are no better than those of any other Joe Casual with a Night Elf hunter named Xxelfhuntrxx and a pet named Inuyasha. Don't act as if they are.
Oh snap, I insulted a game you have an e-boner for, I'm clearly hardcore and angry that people like it.
Either that or I'm saying it gets way too much praise for doing nothing original.
Someone help me deal with these internal struggles, plz.
When, exactly, did games have to start doing things original before they could be considered good? Is every first-person shooter set during World War 2 terrible after Wolfenstein terrible because none of them are original?
I recognize it's the "best" MMO of the current "template" but I cannot stand it.