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Asking for a Raise (Update 3/19)
AskingForRaise
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
This is an alt. I'm young and inexperienced in office politics, and would appreciate advice.
I've been working at my company for 18 months as an analyst. My starting salary was $X. After a positive performance review six months ago I was given a 12% bonus and a 3% cost-of-living pay increase.
At times my bosses have told me I'm well regarded, a "rising star" at the company and a "senior analyst." I've always performed well, come in early and stayed late. I've learned new skillsets and increased my responsibilities, especially in the last six months since my performance review. I think I'm worth a raise.
In addition, my company has had difficulties hiring and retaining talent. We're a small company (~20 people). Since my performance review six months ago we've fired three people and three highly valued team members have left of their own choosing. Our prospective hires haven't looked promising. Our most recent new analyst was given a starting salary of $1.13X (10% more than I currently earn). She's older and has an MA, but I honestly believe I'm worth more to the company than her.
I'm going to ask for a 15% raise. I think I have a strong case, but I have questions:
I don't have family or friends with experience with these sorts of thing and there's no HR department to talk with, so any tips would be great.
EDIT: Sorry to bump an old thread, but I wanted to give a quick update. I did what (I think) was the consensus in this thread, which was to bide my time and work for the promotion rather than forcing an issue out of a raise. I've been talking with my bosses over the last month, and I'm told there's no reason I shouldn't get the promotion after performance reviews this July and that everyone thinks I've been very professional in how I've taken on all this work without complaining.
So, thank you. If I'd acted without your advice I'm pretty sure I'd have come off as entitled and ungrateful. It's clear to me now that would have done more harm than good (or at least, less good than came from doing nothing).
I've been working at my company for 18 months as an analyst. My starting salary was $X. After a positive performance review six months ago I was given a 12% bonus and a 3% cost-of-living pay increase.
At times my bosses have told me I'm well regarded, a "rising star" at the company and a "senior analyst." I've always performed well, come in early and stayed late. I've learned new skillsets and increased my responsibilities, especially in the last six months since my performance review. I think I'm worth a raise.
In addition, my company has had difficulties hiring and retaining talent. We're a small company (~20 people). Since my performance review six months ago we've fired three people and three highly valued team members have left of their own choosing. Our prospective hires haven't looked promising. Our most recent new analyst was given a starting salary of $1.13X (10% more than I currently earn). She's older and has an MA, but I honestly believe I'm worth more to the company than her.
I'm going to ask for a 15% raise. I think I have a strong case, but I have questions:
- I technically shouldn't know what this new hire is earning, but we're a small company and I overheard the offer. I know I'm supposed to argue my case, and not why I'm worth more than someone else, so I'm leaning towards not bringing up the new hire altogether. Sound right? However, I am honestly annoyed the new hire is earning more than me.
- I've read I shouldn't focus too much on the company's circumstances (i.e., the problems retaining talent) and instead stick to arguing my own worth. Is that unreasonable? The circumstances do matter. Should I leave it to my boss to understand how much they need me, or do I state it outright?
- I don't want to leave my job. I'm happy here. But what do I do if my boss says no, or offers something I don't find acceptable? Do I just give the honest answer, which is (again) that I'm happy here but feel strongly about what I'm worth and don't know what I'll do if I'm not given my due? Or do I play hardball and say I'm prepared to find another job, even if I'm not really?
- In the past my boss has mentioned they like to handle pay changes and promotions at the end of our fiscal year in June. I'm concerned he's going to say we'll discuss it at my next performance review when these pay issues are settled, and offer as a compromise a larger holiday bonus. Is it unreasonable of me to call bullshit on this (politely)? The current circumstances are entirely different than at my last performance review. Why should I wait another six months to get what I'm worth, just because paperwork is inconvenient?
- Should I suggest or accept if offered some meaningless title change (like officially being a senior analyst), which I could at least use on my resume in the future? Or does that sound silly?
- How do you actually set these things up? I'm leaning towards sending a meeting invite to my boss asking to discuss my role and responsibilities in the company. Too subtle?
I don't have family or friends with experience with these sorts of thing and there's no HR department to talk with, so any tips would be great.
EDIT: Sorry to bump an old thread, but I wanted to give a quick update. I did what (I think) was the consensus in this thread, which was to bide my time and work for the promotion rather than forcing an issue out of a raise. I've been talking with my bosses over the last month, and I'm told there's no reason I shouldn't get the promotion after performance reviews this July and that everyone thinks I've been very professional in how I've taken on all this work without complaining.
So, thank you. If I'd acted without your advice I'm pretty sure I'd have come off as entitled and ungrateful. It's clear to me now that would have done more harm than good (or at least, less good than came from doing nothing).
AskingForRaise on
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2. Bringing that up puts the focus on them -- "you can't hire good employees" -- rather than you. They'll go on the defensive. Focus on yourself.
3. Don't bluff with your job.
4. This is really up to you and should depend on his overall attitude, behavior, and the offers he makes during the conversation.
5. Don't suggest it, because it will give your boss an easy out. A title change can be valuable, but how valuable depends on what else he offers you.
6. Role/future/whatever you need to say to get a one-on-one.
As Jimmy King said, check the going rate for your position. I like www.glassdoor.com, but there's others.
It's also not that "paperwork is inconvenient," it's also what he gets for budget and what's planned for. Paying for unplanned expenses is sometimes necessary - building repairs, etc. - but not a good practice for successful business, and a raise is not a critical expense.
The company disagrees.
Nothing wrong with a title increase - it makes negotiating your next job a little easier.
Not trying to sound like a jerk, but your post has some entitlement vibes - something to watch when speaking to your boss. You should value yourself highly, but remember you agreed to the terms when you accepted the offer, which became your current market value.
Ask yourself this: Why are you asking for one now? If your honest answer has anything to do with the new hire, or indeed anybody other than yourself only, then you are asking for one for the wrong reasons.
Frankly, it's frustrating for someone less experienced (but better educated) to make more than you. I totally get that. You have no idea I get that. But oh well, them's the ropes.
It's a tricky situation, because how you should approach your boss about anything depends heavily on a number of factors. Your personality, his personality, your relationship with him, your sense of humor, his sense of humor. All of these things are really important, because you should approach the subject in such a way that it doesn't seem random and odd.
For instance, if you and your boss have a relationship where joking and wise cracks are somewhat common, the next time he refers to you as his senior analyst, you could jokingly reply that one of these days you're going to want that on paper, or something similar.
Personally, I don't think you should ask for a pay raise. You've pointed out nothing you've done recently to merit the discussion being had now, and if you push the issue now, it'll look bad on you come June. The job title thing is a different matter. Definitely (Gently!) push that issue, and if they don't do anything by June, pretty much just ask for it. Then you can justify why you deserve a higher title, which in turn justifies a larger pay increase.
Don't do anything until June. Except look into going back to school.
1. Have justifications for why you deserve more money. If you know you're a high performer, say that, and follow up with specific examples of going above and beyond
2. If they balk, ask what you need to do to get a promotion or a raise. Make a plan with your manager. Execute on that plan and come back to them when complete. Get this in writing.
If I sound entitled in these posts, it's because in real life I am frustratingly humble and self-deprecating and will cave in at the first sign of resistance (see my 3% cost-of-living pay increase in June). Any arguments I make I will inevitably frame as a jokey suggestion, even if I want to be sincere. I am not a good negotiator.
I'm trying to argue my case forcefully here, since I'll be presenting it with half as much confidence in person.
The extra time until your scheduled review gives you time to document things you feel are of specific value.
Do not bring up your co-worker's pay rate specifically, but find out what the average is for your industry and if you're making it.
I host a podcast about movies.
Many places, including the company that I currently work for (and have been going above and beyond everyone's expectations for the entire go and watching it make a decent bit of cash in the past 14 months), have not given any bonuses or raises AT ALL, cost of living or otherwise
And as the other posters have said, if your company is on a June-June review cycle, that means that's how their budget is set up and there's most likely not any extra money laying about for you to get more of. If you're serious about wanting more dollars, your most likely hope for that kind of pay bump is to look for a new job, whether internally or externally.
Well, when I was hired I was told to expect a 10% bonus as part of my pay, so the extra 2% was the main recognition I got for my work (which I think was low, but I didn't say anything at the time). My company's been doing quite well for itself, and if anything our budget should be more flexible than ever, considering we've lost 6 people in the last six months (30% of our work force, and none of it for financial reasons), and we've only hired three of those back. I've largely picked up the missing man hours.
They also have the budget to hire a new analyst doing my exact work at 1.1x my pay.
In any case, this is all incredibly helpful. Like I said, I don't have any other sounding board for this.
I'm now leaning towards having a conversation with my boss to 1) discuss my new responsibilities, performance, and hours to make sure he's at least aware; 2) find out what I can expect in terms of bonus / raise / promotion, whether it's now or in six months; and 3) if it is in six months, what's expected of me until then. This way I can get across that I think I'm worth 1.15x (or whatever) and gauge his receptiveness without necessarily forcing his hand.
The reason I'm comfortable asking for something a little bold is I'm confident of how much shit the company would be in if I left (not that I would ever in a million years frame it that way to my boss). We're ridiculously understaffed and just spent three months finding an acceptable new analyst (for 1.1x the typical analyst's pay), and we're entering a crunch period. I honestly don't know what would happen if we lost another critical team member.
You want 10% because you found out the newer person makes 10% more than you. Say whatever you want, that's the only reason you want a raise right now.
I guess what confuses me (and this is now totally separate from the conversation I'm planning on having with my boss... in no way do I ever argue anything like this to him) is that they're able to hire a new analyst at 1.1x my pay, but can't afford a comparable raise for me? And it's really only in the last six months since my performance review that I've come into my own and stood out as a critical team member.
Also, our revenue grew 15+% this most recent year, and we've lost 15+% of our payroll expenses due to departures.
Again, I think I'm worth the 10% raise based on my accomplishments, responsibilities and hours. But the economy and budget don't seem like reasonable disqualifiers in my particular case.
I just saw them spend three months failing to find someone who can fill the analyst position. Saying I'm 100% replaceable is naive. There are considerable costs involved in hiring and training a (potentially less valuable) replacement, especially given the company's current circumstances.
Yes, the 10% figure most certainly comes from the new analyst's pay. That's largely because we're a small niche company and I don't have outside comparisons I can pull from, so really that's the only other data point I have.
(Again, this part is separate from the conversation I have with my boss. I understand that conversation is all about my own accomplishments, responsibilities and workload. And I'm already planning on backing away from my original requests based on this feedback).
I think you should put together your resume and see what else is out there. If you can't find a job that pays better, you're not going to get more from them.
First of all that new analyst has a master's degree, what type of education do you have?
Does she have a family? Maybe they're paying her more because they know she has more expenses and they know if they don't pay her more she'll be looking for a better job, which just wastes the money they're investing in training her.
Well, yeah. That's why I'm asking for the raise.
Since you're asking, I'll try to explain from my experience. There's several factors - maybe she's a really good negotiator and did a better interview. Maybe they have bigger plans for her as she has a Masters. Maybe as a small company, they get subsidies (not the right word) for hiring women.
Good, keep doing it. To get a raise/promotion, you have to show you're doing the job already. To use a current big example, Tim Cook was probably already doing 99% Apple CEO duties before being promoted. For you,find out what else you can do to fill a higher role, and do it before expecting compensation.
So maybe that kept the company from going under. Unless you're the CFO, you'll never know the whole picture. So don't try to guess; it will just stress you out.
Again, the company disagrees.
I know it's frustrating, but trying to divine the company's budget or determine your worth will only distract you from focusing on getting everyone to see you as the new Project Manager.
This. Quit focusing on the pay and focus on the position.
Let 'em eat fucking pineapples!
This site gives a pretty good estimate on industry average by job position.
IMHO 18 month and you already got a pay raise and a bonus. That's not bad already. If you are not severely under the average I won't push too hard.
Everything depends on how much you are making now. I suggest actually looking outside and see what other place offers first before making a decision. However I might not be the person to ask in this circumstance. I never gotten a promotion in my entire life and I just keep switching jobs to get ahead. Currently I'm stuck in a company for 5 years and looking to just chill and finish out what I'm studying instead of climbing the corporate latter.
You don't need to bluff with your job, just threaten or bluff to go back down to 40 hours a week. It's not hard to do this subtly... just talk about how your responsibilities have increased dramatically, and you put up with the increased responsibilities and increased workload because you were confident the company would reward you, but they need to show good faith somehow if they want you to keep doing it.
It does, however, depend on how sane the people making these decisions are... you have to judge whether they know how valuable you are to them and how hard it would be to replace you. If so, they're not going to shove you out the door because you're not a good little soldier, and there's no danger to asking for what you think is fair. If they don't know how much they're relying on you, or if they're crazy enough to make a bad business decision on principle, then you're going to have to suck it up or quit.
I wouldn't necessarily ask for 15% if you think 10% is fair... ask for the promotion, instead. Check glassdoor or another site to see what's a fair salary for your position and for a team manager position. You might get a fair sight more than 10% if it's a big promotion.
This shows you are not a team player, and are not concerned with the well being of the company.
The manager can point to the 12% bonus and the 3% raise. That's huge!
June isn't that far away. Not to mention the holidays are coming up. Do they give out holiday bonuses? I think waiting until June is the smart thing to do. If they don't deliver in good faith at that point, that's when you roll out the big arguments.
Except they happened before any of the substantial changes in the last six months, and the 10% bonus was negotiated as part of the offer.
I don't see that there's anything to lose by starting now. They're not going to fire you, so the worst case scenario is the same as what happens if you does nothing. I say 'starting now' because he may well tell you that out of cycle raises are not given under any circumstances.
1) Solicit other related jobs in the field.
2) Get an offer.
3) Show the offer to your current boss and ask him to match or beat it or you walk.
That is really the only surefire way to get a raise in this current environment, and really the only way to do it and maintain your job security. Just because they hired someone for more than you doesn't mean anything about your pay. From the corporate standpoint, each individual's salary is isolated and unrelated, regardless of workload.
If you are as talented as your bosses say, it should be plausible to get another offer within 6 months to work with. And if your bosses refuse, this way you'll have something else to hire you.
I'm not saying that this guy isn't putting in his time. If he's working all this unpaid time, that will speak to how much he cares about the company and why he deserves the raise.
Okay, fair point. Something along the lines of "Hey, I hear that, but I can't justify putting in this level of effort if you can't find a way to compensate me for it" work better for you?
Worst case scenario is they make his job a living hell to make him quit. There are plenty of perfectly legal ways to drive someone with a bad attitude towards the goodwill of the company away without running afoul of legal troubles. Antagonizing your boss is the #1 worst piece of advice you could ever give anyone.
If not, that could well be why you aren't paid what you're "worth" at this company. It may seem like experience should trump all but that is simply not the case in modern business.
The OP has to judge, but my read is that there's no possibility that they are going to want him to quit. Amend the bolded bit to "they're not going to push you out the door."
edit: Also whoa, I totally missed Sentry's point. The raise is probably a lost cause if you don't have a degree... the difference between a bachelor's and a master's is much narrower than the difference between no degree and a master's. If you have no degree, you're super lucky to be within 10% of someone with a master's.
1. Whatever you do, if you want to stay in the company's good graces, don't threaten to cut your hours and act like a spoiled child. The corporate world can be rough and unrelenting at times, but people remember how throws down when times are tough and who goes home when.
2. There is absolutely nothing wrong with asking for a raise or promotion. If you are given a promotion out of the blue, either you have an excellent manager or it's being given 6 months to a year after it should have been. It's in the company's best interests to pay you the minimum it takes to keep you happy.
3. There are wrong ways to do this, such as ultimatums. If they say yes to your reasons, great, if not, make them put a plan together that gets you that promotion in short order. If their answer is "We'll see how you're doing in x months", state that you'd rather have a plan so you can be sure you're doing everything you can to merit the promotion. If they can't provide that, go somewhere that actually has a clue how to manage people.
I've asked for promotions 3 times and only been turned down once. The time I was turned down, I was given fuzzy reasons from a poor manager who wasn't willing to put a plan together for my future (I was basically self managing and reporting to his management already), so I left. Act like a rational person and stress specific deliverables that lead to your promotion and most managers will help you get what you need. Act like a spoiled child and you won't get shit.
I got a BA from a top 5 university with a 4.0 GPA.
Everyone in this thread has been tremendously helpful. I'm still working out my exact plan, but given all the feedback I'm leaning towards asking my boss about the Project Manager position. That's much more valuable to me long-term than an immediate raise, and it seems like a more appropriate request as it doesn't force anyone's timetable.
There was a moment today when we were figuring out what to bill a client and one of my bosses suggested charging them PM rates for my hours. Just another anecdote to bolster my confidence.
No harm in asking for a raise, unless you are a total jerk about it. Especially if you are interested in advancing within the company. In my experience, Managers promoted from within are much more successful that ones from outside. Unless your boss sucks, they WANT to hear that their employees are looking to advance.
So, thank you. If I'd acted without your advice I'm pretty sure I'd have come off as entitled and ungrateful. It's clear to me now that would have done more harm than good (or at least, less good than came from doing nothing).