My favorite line while participating in the tribunal came from some guy who was 1/11/12. "I'd be 13 and 12 if you guys weren't stealing all my kills."
0
BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
edited November 2011
Well since we don't get our cool things the same day you cross-ponders get your cool things, I guess I'll see how viable junglerising is on a level 1 account on the US.
My favorite line while participating in the tribunal came from some guy who was 1/11/12. "I'd be 13 and 12 if you guys weren't stealing all my kills."
Honestly, I can sympathise with this. I've had games where, for example, there's been a Caitlyn who did nothing all game. In teamfights her first action every time was to start running away without damage. But what she would do is watch me drop someone 100-10% and then ult them. I think she had 7 kills that she did absolutely no work for at the end of the game.
I had a fun game or two yesterday, all normal draft mode solo queue.
Enemy jungler was Nocturne, so I picked Shyvana to jungle since Skarner was banned (was odd, because it only showed 3 people being banned in the selection screen, but 6 were grayed out).
I spent the whole game basically counter-jungling him and getting some kills. He did actually tie me in levels because he got first blood and another 2 kills, but he was soooooo mad. Eventually he raged quit.
Another game I was Sona and I warded their blue mid-game. They go do blue and i just wait on the other side of blue. When it was low I hit my Q and stole their blue buff. My team was laughing.
I recently got into support (i hate 0 CS gameplay), but was in the mood for something new. Sona is probably the only fun support (maybe janna too), because i can harass with my Q all day long. Every normal draft mode where I ran support yesterday, I had a kick ass AD with me who did great CS and harass. One game it was Sona (me) and Tristana VS a Soraka and a NASUS. I told Tristana "lets harass the crap out of them". We sure did the whole game and got 3-4 kills on them during laning.
I usually build for Sona: meki, 3 wards, 2 mana pots, philo stone, HoG, CDR booties, then usually a chalice so I never run out of mana + MR, Shruylia's, then i dunno, Aegis I guess?
Is that good support items?
AND EVERY FREAKING AD CARRY GOT MAD WHEN I TOOK A FEW CS EARLY TO GET MY DAMN PHILO STONE. Its like WTF, LET ME GET MY GP5 ITEM. Even over vent in a 5-man premade, this freaking guy was getting mad. ONE TIME HE WASNT EVEN NEAR ME AND WAS WALKING TO ME AND I TOOK 2 CS AND HE GOT MAD. CALM DOWN!
When i am the freaking AD carry, i tell my support to try to get CS if they can for your GP5 item, and that I will buy a ward as well when I go back since i get the majority of the CS
That just makes you a good person.
I play support the same way, it's more fun for me. Besides, 10ish cs at the end of laning phase that they wouldn't have gotten anyway is not the end of the world.
Tried WotA on her yet? It's good, especially on an ap heavy team and double book buff is pretty powerful.
Hmm, full jungle on riven with a dorans blade. Had to go home after that though, not enough hp for a gank.
Cloth+Soda Malphite never has to leave the jungle. Small camps barely manage to get through his shield. After two full clears, you're at full health with two potions left.
Runes: 14% AS/12 ArPen with flat armor Seals
Masteries: 9/21/0
Items: Cloth + 5 pots
Path: Wolves -> Blue -> Wraiths -> Red -> Golems (one is small, other is large)
Cleared it at 3:17 with 357/500xp to level 4.
* I used 4 health potions but could've done it with 3, possibly 2.
* Regrowth Pendant + health pot looks viable with a strong pull. With 500g on recall that's enough to make a Philo Stone well before 4:00.
* Didn't pay too much attention to monster stats but base health on red/blue buff monsters is 1272, down from ~1450.
Jungle Trundle:
Runes: 10 ArPen/9.6 AD with flat armor Seals
Masteries: 21/9/0
Items: Vamp. Scepter
Path: Wolves -> Blue -> Wraiths -> Red -> Golems
Cleared it at 3:22 with 357/500xp to level 4 and ~500g on hand.
* Never dipped below 1/2 health, even at blue camp
*
Other:
AS trynd full clear in 3.20(21/9/0)
Shaco red path doesn't give level 3 anymore.
Poppy vamp scepter wolves to full clear 3.50 but you run around @ 240-320hp the whole time.
Lux can do a bunch of damage if you hit a Light Binding and then follow up with auto, Singularity, Auto, LAZ0R. Her range is great.
She loses out in mid, I've found, as she lacks sustain and her cooldowns are soooo long. Morgana has good sustain and insane pushing ability through her spellvamp passive and Tormented Soil. It's better damage than Lux's Singularity, but that's because Singularity is up-front burst, rather than slow DoT. Kennen's got more sustain because he uses zero mana, and a good first item on him is a Doran's Shield (to soak up minion aggro when you charge through the lines with Lightning Rush) for some HP regen. Swain has better sustain thanks to his passive and his ult. Ryze arguably has better sustain through his ult, and the way you itemise while still doing good damage. Tear, Catalyst, Catalyst. That said, Lux is good at escaping ganks (she's not going to be pushing as much as some AP mids, and her binding/singularity are good escape mechanism) as long as her cooldowns are up. If her abilities are down, she is VERY vulnerable.
Lux's main strength laning IMO is her range - she can toss her bombs at long range for easy harass and use stuns to initiate a full ability rotation (stun+auto+bomb+auto) if the other guy has crappy CC and there is a low chance of a jungle gank. Poke and then play conservatively until cooldowns are up - if you can get any early advantage in lane any matchup can get out of hand quickly.
If I'm mid-ing Lux I like to run flash+teleport to offset this lack of sustain and help me get this early CS/kill advantage. Teleport ensures I force the other guy back around 6 and at least gain a CS advantage and it lets me be a bit more aggressive with my mana usage for harassment. It also allows me to port back to get to boots+2x dorans quickly to make this harass more potent, ideally forcing the other guy out of the lane early on. Shoot teh lazer often - even if you aren't going to get a kill, making the other guy burn pots or port back is worth it when you consider its cooldown - and TP ensures I'm somewhere near somebody when it comes off cooldown (sidelane ganks, etc.).
Teleport is still useful late game, too - TP to a ward to steal baron or pew pew escaping enemy mans with teh lazerz. It helps to have someone with CV on your team here (I'll usually run CV if I start bottom).
I was weirded out by the Gangplank skin for second- "That's the default skin remake? It looks exactly the sa- no wait, it's exactly the same as the Chinese splash art shown on the front of the launcher for the last 2 years. Good job, then."
I don't know how I feel about the Sivir changes. I'll miss being able to turn Ricochet on then advance down a lane as fast as I could walk, but I think I'll like not having to get into melee range to hit someone. I like the changes and buff to boomerang blade, but the nerf to her ult is sad.
I'll have to give her a couple games, see what I think then.
My favorite line while participating in the tribunal came from some guy who was 1/11/12. "I'd be 13 and 12 if you guys weren't stealing all my kills."
Honestly, I can sympathise with this. I've had games where, for example, there's been a Caitlyn who did nothing all game. In teamfights her first action every time was to start running away without damage. But what she would do is watch me drop someone 100-10% and then ult them. I think she had 7 kills that she did absolutely no work for at the end of the game.
Okay, so I get bent over and abused by Cass in mid as Ryze... never trying that again, he just gets outranged. It was bad enough already, but when I'm dead and she takes my tower, my teammates on top (who decided to pick malphite and no jungle when we already had a Cho) decided to push up all the way to the enemy tower without a ward or any vision on the enemy team. And I get yelled at for not calling MIAs...
I hate how everyone blames getting ganked on other lanes not calling every single last MIA. If you don't have the awareness to watch the minimap and know when and when not to extend... BUY WARDS.
We still eventually lost, but I actually managed to turn things around once the tower was down and I could safely farm. I went from lowest level with no farm, to highest level with the most farm in no time.
Hmm, full jungle on riven with a dorans blade. Had to go home after that though, not enough hp for a gank.
Cloth+Soda Malphite never has to leave the jungle. Small camps barely manage to get through his shield. After two full clears, you're at full health with two potions left.
With a pull on blue I ended up at 80% health after a full clear on riven, can go kill wraiths+wolves and then twiddle thumbs (gank or go b).
Anyone figure out if there's any new jungle paths with the new respawn timers? Like can I clear Blue to minis with Rammus and have wraiths already back up? I can't wait to try it out tonight.
0
BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
Honestly, I'm pretty sure you should now always be starting at either wolves or wraiths on a lot of characters.
Honestly, I'm pretty sure you should now always be starting at either wolves or wraiths on a lot of characters.
Why is that? I don't know enough to disagree, but I'd like to hear your logic.
0
Custom SpecialI know I am, I'm sure I am,I'm Sounders 'til I die!Registered Userregular
In the 15 seconds between small camp and big camp spawned at the start you can easily wipe up wolves before blue even spawns and then just get to work on blue, even with a leash to get a head start.
My favorite line while participating in the tribunal came from some guy who was 1/11/12. "I'd be 13 and 12 if you guys weren't stealing all my kills."
Honestly, I can sympathise with this. I've had games where, for example, there's been a Caitlyn who did nothing all game. In teamfights her first action every time was to start running away without damage. But what she would do is watch me drop someone 100-10% and then ult them. I think she had 7 kills that she did absolutely no work for at the end of the game.
DAT FUCKING CAITLYN, I remember that game.
I've had a Cait who just sat in bushes, watching the rest of the team fight 10 feet away, then when the enemy was low pop out to finish them. Or do nothing if we were losing.
Repeat for 17 champ kills.
0
BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
Honestly, I'm pretty sure you should now always be starting at either wolves or wraiths on a lot of characters.
Why is that? I don't know enough to disagree, but I'd like to hear your logic.
Ok, so the basic difference between the new jungle and the old is that you don't get enough XP to get to 4 from a blue->minis clear.
Now in the old jungle, it was always worthwhile to start at wolves if you could do them in 10 seconds (Shyvana, Skarner, Udyr) and then move onto blue in time for its spawn.
You can still do that, but also because of the lower respawn rates and the heal, it becomes more efficient to do the small camps first.
For example I just did a test as level 21 Rammus. I started at wraiths, smited big, killed the little ones, moved onto wolves and then did blue (smite wasn't even back up and it was still easy... again, this is level 21 Rammus without a decent full armour page). By the time I'd finished blue, wraiths were back up again. So I then did wraiths and minis, but I'm pretty sure at level 30 I could've done wraiths, red and minis, and ended at level 4 and on decent ganking health.
So the fast respawn rates of the smaller camps mean you should be trying to time it so that there's one camp you've already done up again when you're done with a large camp, so you can hit that camp and get to 4.
The only other slightly unexpected thing I've noticed is that the health potion nerf has slightly nerfed cloth + 5 champs, and the heals from smaller camps don't really make up for it, although the ease with which you kill camps counteracts it slightly. It's possible that because of the ease of camps now, Regrowth Pendant + 1 hp pot -> Philostone might be a preferable choice on a lot of champs who don't use Wriggle's.
Bethryn on
...and of course, as always, Kill Hitler.
0
surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
yes
they hit his ratios way too hard
so now they are making AP TARIC a thing once more
he is now doing 2.1 ap if he lands a pb stun - better than ap sion lerl
AND MUCH MORE HANDSOME
0
StragintDo Not GiftAlways DeclinesRegistered Userregular
I think the new path is Wolves, Blue, Wraiths, Red, Wolves, Golems/Wraiths. The respawn on the mini camps is one minute so starting at wolves or wraith is definitely the best place to start.
PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
I like to think that if they're fixing Taric's ratios, they might someday actually fix Leona's.
Or give her some sort of passive that lets her build AP by building something actually tanky. Magic Resist to AP, maybe?
I do not want to see you working at Riot in the future because what you said is PRECISELY THINGS WE DO NOT WANT TO SEE MORE OF IN THIS GAME. Wow, stack defense to get offense, that's absolutely not a thing a million champions have.
It would be really neat if her passive had an AP ratio to it. It would also be neat if sunfire cape triggered her passive for her. Neat != balanced of course.
0
ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
Hmm, full jungle on riven with a dorans blade. Had to go home after that though, not enough hp for a gank.
Cloth+Soda Malphite never has to leave the jungle. Small camps barely manage to get through his shield. After two full clears, you're at full health with two potions left.
With a pull on blue I ended up at 80% health after a full clear on riven, can go kill wraiths+wolves and then twiddle thumbs (gank or go b).
You could always Doran's Blade jungle Riven, I just never did it because I like to counterjungle and such so the armor/pots setup is better. The top two things I'm wondering with new jungle is: can everyone start vamp scepter? can I start with boots pots?
As far as routes, I'm about to test some, but I've read that you can do wolves, blue, wraiths, wolves, red, golems to level 4, or Guinsoo put this in his rebuttal post to jungle changes: start at whatever side you want to gank, full clear the other way, then by the time you're done, the first camp should have respawned, then you can do that to level 4 and gank.
0
AriviaI Like A ChallengeEarth-1Registered Userregular
I like to think that if they're fixing Taric's ratios, they might someday actually fix Leona's.
Or give her some sort of passive that lets her build AP by building something actually tanky. Magic Resist to AP, maybe?
I do not want to see you working at Riot in the future because what you said is PRECISELY THINGS WE DO NOT WANT TO SEE MORE OF IN THIS GAME. Wow, stack defense to get offense, that's absolutely not a thing a million champions have.
So you should stack AP to get mres.
Oh no wait
what if placing Leona's ult has to be done through a tetris minigame
Chaoshat, that was with dorans blade riven. Full clear and not losing health on camps any more with high health left with a good pull on blue after wolves.
so is counter jungling pointless now? it was one of my favorite things
In short, no. The long answer is that the same mechanic of leaving one mob behind to eternally pause the respawn timer is still there, but since camp respawn timers are overall shorter you have to work at it harder, and you have to prevent people from then just saying "fuck it I'll go get his camps" so you need either good vision or speed on your clears.
0
surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
edited November 2011
some of you seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that counterjungling is/was about gaining an advantage
it absolutely isnt
its about annoying the enemy jungler so much that he shits out his nose in frustration
i'd like to point out that I really dig the new gangplank model rework cause it made it so his critical animation is his pistol, leading to hilarious sequences where you crit someone in the face, shoot parrley, then crit them again so hes like BLAM BLAM BLAM with his flintlock
Posts
There's no such thing as a death, only a successful initiation that your party didn't capitalize on.
There's no such thing as an assist, only a third number there to make women and small children feel better about themselves.
Also: Malphite can clear the jungle with boots and one potion. loooooool.
It's how I do things.
Honestly, I can sympathise with this. I've had games where, for example, there's been a Caitlyn who did nothing all game. In teamfights her first action every time was to start running away without damage. But what she would do is watch me drop someone 100-10% and then ult them. I think she had 7 kills that she did absolutely no work for at the end of the game.
Enemy jungler was Nocturne, so I picked Shyvana to jungle since Skarner was banned (was odd, because it only showed 3 people being banned in the selection screen, but 6 were grayed out).
I spent the whole game basically counter-jungling him and getting some kills. He did actually tie me in levels because he got first blood and another 2 kills, but he was soooooo mad. Eventually he raged quit.
Another game I was Sona and I warded their blue mid-game. They go do blue and i just wait on the other side of blue. When it was low I hit my Q and stole their blue buff. My team was laughing.
I recently got into support (i hate 0 CS gameplay), but was in the mood for something new. Sona is probably the only fun support (maybe janna too), because i can harass with my Q all day long. Every normal draft mode where I ran support yesterday, I had a kick ass AD with me who did great CS and harass. One game it was Sona (me) and Tristana VS a Soraka and a NASUS. I told Tristana "lets harass the crap out of them". We sure did the whole game and got 3-4 kills on them during laning.
I usually build for Sona: meki, 3 wards, 2 mana pots, philo stone, HoG, CDR booties, then usually a chalice so I never run out of mana + MR, Shruylia's, then i dunno, Aegis I guess?
Is that good support items?
AND EVERY FREAKING AD CARRY GOT MAD WHEN I TOOK A FEW CS EARLY TO GET MY DAMN PHILO STONE. Its like WTF, LET ME GET MY GP5 ITEM. Even over vent in a 5-man premade, this freaking guy was getting mad. ONE TIME HE WASNT EVEN NEAR ME AND WAS WALKING TO ME AND I TOOK 2 CS AND HE GOT MAD. CALM DOWN!
When i am the freaking AD carry, i tell my support to try to get CS if they can for your GP5 item, and that I will buy a ward as well when I go back since i get the majority of the CS
I play support the same way, it's more fun for me. Besides, 10ish cs at the end of laning phase that they wouldn't have gotten anyway is not the end of the world.
Tried WotA on her yet? It's good, especially on an ap heavy team and double book buff is pretty powerful.
Cloth+Soda Malphite never has to leave the jungle. Small camps barely manage to get through his shield. After two full clears, you're at full health with two potions left.
Other:
AS trynd full clear in 3.20(21/9/0)
Shaco red path doesn't give level 3 anymore.
Poppy vamp scepter wolves to full clear 3.50 but you run around @ 240-320hp the whole time.
Lux's main strength laning IMO is her range - she can toss her bombs at long range for easy harass and use stuns to initiate a full ability rotation (stun+auto+bomb+auto) if the other guy has crappy CC and there is a low chance of a jungle gank. Poke and then play conservatively until cooldowns are up - if you can get any early advantage in lane any matchup can get out of hand quickly.
If I'm mid-ing Lux I like to run flash+teleport to offset this lack of sustain and help me get this early CS/kill advantage. Teleport ensures I force the other guy back around 6 and at least gain a CS advantage and it lets me be a bit more aggressive with my mana usage for harassment. It also allows me to port back to get to boots+2x dorans quickly to make this harass more potent, ideally forcing the other guy out of the lane early on. Shoot teh lazer often - even if you aren't going to get a kill, making the other guy burn pots or port back is worth it when you consider its cooldown - and TP ensures I'm somewhere near somebody when it comes off cooldown (sidelane ganks, etc.).
Teleport is still useful late game, too - TP to a ward to steal baron or pew pew escaping enemy mans with teh lazerz. It helps to have someone with CV on your team here (I'll usually run CV if I start bottom).
I was weirded out by the Gangplank skin for second- "That's the default skin remake? It looks exactly the sa- no wait, it's exactly the same as the Chinese splash art shown on the front of the launcher for the last 2 years. Good job, then."
I'll have to give her a couple games, see what I think then.
Steam
DAT FUCKING CAITLYN, I remember that game.
I hate how everyone blames getting ganked on other lanes not calling every single last MIA. If you don't have the awareness to watch the minimap and know when and when not to extend... BUY WARDS.
We still eventually lost, but I actually managed to turn things around once the tower was down and I could safely farm. I went from lowest level with no farm, to highest level with the most farm in no time.
With a pull on blue I ended up at 80% health after a full clear on riven, can go kill wraiths+wolves and then twiddle thumbs (gank or go b).
Why is that? I don't know enough to disagree, but I'd like to hear your logic.
Shatter ability power ratio increased to 0.6 from 0.4
Radiance ability power ratio increased to 0.7 from 0.6
TRULY OUTRAGEEOOOUUSSS
Repeat for 17 champ kills.
Now in the old jungle, it was always worthwhile to start at wolves if you could do them in 10 seconds (Shyvana, Skarner, Udyr) and then move onto blue in time for its spawn.
You can still do that, but also because of the lower respawn rates and the heal, it becomes more efficient to do the small camps first.
For example I just did a test as level 21 Rammus. I started at wraiths, smited big, killed the little ones, moved onto wolves and then did blue (smite wasn't even back up and it was still easy... again, this is level 21 Rammus without a decent full armour page). By the time I'd finished blue, wraiths were back up again. So I then did wraiths and minis, but I'm pretty sure at level 30 I could've done wraiths, red and minis, and ended at level 4 and on decent ganking health.
So the fast respawn rates of the smaller camps mean you should be trying to time it so that there's one camp you've already done up again when you're done with a large camp, so you can hit that camp and get to 4.
The only other slightly unexpected thing I've noticed is that the health potion nerf has slightly nerfed cloth + 5 champs, and the heals from smaller camps don't really make up for it, although the ease with which you kill camps counteracts it slightly. It's possible that because of the ease of camps now, Regrowth Pendant + 1 hp pot -> Philostone might be a preferable choice on a lot of champs who don't use Wriggle's.
they hit his ratios way too hard
so now they are making AP TARIC a thing once more
he is now doing 2.1 ap if he lands a pb stun - better than ap sion lerl
AND MUCH MORE HANDSOME
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
Or give her some sort of passive that lets her build AP by building something actually tanky. Magic Resist to AP, maybe?
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
Too innovative.
one of the designers said something so dumb i nearly ate my own face because of its dumness
I do not want to see you working at Riot in the future because what you said is PRECISELY THINGS WE DO NOT WANT TO SEE MORE OF IN THIS GAME. Wow, stack defense to get offense, that's absolutely not a thing a million champions have.
You could always Doran's Blade jungle Riven, I just never did it because I like to counterjungle and such so the armor/pots setup is better. The top two things I'm wondering with new jungle is: can everyone start vamp scepter? can I start with boots pots?
As far as routes, I'm about to test some, but I've read that you can do wolves, blue, wraiths, wolves, red, golems to level 4, or Guinsoo put this in his rebuttal post to jungle changes: start at whatever side you want to gank, full clear the other way, then by the time you're done, the first camp should have respawned, then you can do that to level 4 and gank.
So you should stack AP to get mres.
Oh no wait
what if placing Leona's ult has to be done through a tetris minigame
Dunno, I think stealing buffs would actually be huge, but the risk is bigger too.
In short, no. The long answer is that the same mechanic of leaving one mob behind to eternally pause the respawn timer is still there, but since camp respawn timers are overall shorter you have to work at it harder, and you have to prevent people from then just saying "fuck it I'll go get his camps" so you need either good vision or speed on your clears.
it absolutely isnt
its about annoying the enemy jungler so much that he shits out his nose in frustration