I liked TFU. It was kind of a rehash of older games and EU stories, but it fit and above all it was a fun game.
TFU2 was like a kick to the nuts of lameness. I think I beat it in about 5 hours.
Yeah, TFU2 was really about a 3rd of a game. I thought that the beginning -> Kota's rescue was actually pretty okay. Then all pacing was thrown out the window and the game ends an hour or so later. It was though the dev team had an 85% finished first chapter and some rough draft level examples for other, larger chapters, and were told to slap it all together for the holiday season.
It's not like the pain train from Lucas ever stops, but when LucasArts released an Special Edition of TFU2 that cost $80, that's like . . . a crime.
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
Also, and I say this without any schadenfreude, but I wish there was a way Joseph Campbell could take his critical appraisal to the Prequel and give us the kind of analysis unique to him about what this trilogy ended up really being about.
That would be pretty rad. Or sad. Probably a little of both.
Because thanks to the PT, the narrative throughline of the saga is horrendously, irreparably muddled. Anakin Skywalker is a terrible, terrible character, and at no point should be seen as a protagonist by any reasonable stretch of the imagination. Worse, in the PT he does the cardinal sin of screen-writing: he has no arc. He starts off as a weird creep with attachment issues and overly-emotional resistance to authority (motivated by nothing apparent), and ends the PT as a murderous creep with homicidal attachment issues. That's not an arc. That's not a fall from grace. That's just a psychopath being given a duffel bag full of sharp objects and doing what comes natural.
It's not odd to see a Jedi in the KotoR era actually wearing armor, rather than just robes. And I like that.
I posted a rundown from my fanwank version of the PT in the old thread, but this brings up a point in that opus that I didn't articulate, and that is the attire of the Jedi.
In the OT, there is no real precedent for the Jedi looking or acting like a monastic order. Ben wears robes when we first meet him, but Ben lives on a desert planet, so that makes a lot of sense. Everyone on Tattooine wears robes; jawas, Uncle Owen, random characters in the background. Shit, even Luke is wearing a poncho and a big floppy hat. It's the desert. You gotta cover up, and robes are a great way to do that since they're also billowy and don't collect a lot of heat.
Next, look at the active Jedi: Luke, Yoda, and Vader. Luke wears combat attire and flight suits when appropriate, and brings training fatigues to Dagobah. He fights Vader in ESB in a jumpsuit, and fights him again in ROTJ in a different jumpsuit. Earlier in ROTJ, Luke wears a robe, but guess what? He's back on Tattooine! As soon as shit gets real again on Endor, he's back in standard-issue military gear. Yoda is in a robe, but Yoda is Yoda and doesn't exactly exert himself. He might as well be wearing his pajamas. There's certainly no effort taken by Yoda to wear his robe in any formal or purposeful way; it's just a tattered old robe that he wears over a tattered old shirt. Likewise, Vader doesn't change his costume, but other than a loose cape for style points, his outfit is purely functional. It's a hard-armored suit that also doubles as his iron lung.
At most, the OT establishes that robes are for:
- people who are in hot climates
- Jedi on laundry day
- old people
It also establishes that robes are pretty shit for:
- fighting
- riding speeders
So why does every force user in the PT wear robes like they're going out of style? They're impractical. They're dangerous. When you're covered in rainwater and fighting against a jet-pack guy who is shooting at you, they're dangerously impractical. In any version of the PT I'd cook up, if Jedi are fighting, the Jedi are armored up. It only makes sense.
Except Yoda's clothing is identical to Ben's, aside from being threadbare, and Luke's black clothing is tailored similarly. Also, Luke's military gear consists of a helmet and camouflage smock that he wears over his black clothing. Finally, all of the Force ghosts at the end of Jedi have the trademark robes, even in the original, non-Hayden Christiansen version.
I think that Ben's robes were supposed to simply be a reflection of him living on Tatooine, but by Jedi, they were the official apparel of the Order.
Except Yoda's clothing is identical to Ben's, aside from being threadbare, and Luke's black clothing is tailored similarly. Also, Luke's military gear consists of a helmet and camouflage smock that he wears over his black clothing. Finally, all of the Force ghosts at the end of Jedi have the trademark robes, even in the original, non-Hayden Christiansen version.
I think that Ben's robes were supposed to simply be a reflection of him living on Tatooine, but by Jedi, they were the official apparel of the Order.
At most, that implies that Jedi robes are for lounging. Which is fine. You want to meditate and hang out? Throw on a robe, they're comfy. Even on a higher plane of existence.
Need to fly a plane or join the infantry? Maybe try something a little more durable and practical.
Except Yoda's clothing is identical to Ben's, aside from being threadbare, and Luke's black clothing is tailored similarly. Also, Luke's military gear consists of a helmet and camouflage smock that he wears over his black clothing. Finally, all of the Force ghosts at the end of Jedi have the trademark robes, even in the original, non-Hayden Christiansen version.
I think that Ben's robes were supposed to simply be a reflection of him living on Tatooine, but by Jedi, they were the official apparel of the Order.
At most, that implies that Jedi robes are for lounging. Which is fine. You want to meditate and hang out? Throw on a robe, they're comfy. Even on a higher plane of existence.
Need to fly a plane or join the infantry? Maybe try something a little more durable and practical.
Oh, I'm not arguing that it's not dumb. I'm just saying it's not a PT invention.
SWTOR and the Clone Wars (both the CG and Tartakovsky's wrt Obi-Wan) both have more logical looks.
Except Yoda's clothing is identical to Ben's, aside from being threadbare, and Luke's black clothing is tailored similarly. Also, Luke's military gear consists of a helmet and camouflage smock that he wears over his black clothing. Finally, all of the Force ghosts at the end of Jedi have the trademark robes, even in the original, non-Hayden Christiansen version.
I think that Ben's robes were supposed to simply be a reflection of him living on Tatooine, but by Jedi, they were the official apparel of the Order.
At most, that implies that Jedi robes are for lounging. Which is fine. You want to meditate and hang out? Throw on a robe, they're comfy. Even on a higher plane of existence.
Need to fly a plane or join the infantry? Maybe try something a little more durable and practical.
Oh, I'm not arguing that it's not dumb. I'm just saying it's not a PT invention.
SWTOR and the Clone Wars (both the CG and Tartakovsky's wrt Obi-Wan) both have more logical looks.
I'm not going to choose what I wear into combat based on what a ghost is wearing.
That's probably how he got to be a ghost.
Well that suit of armor with the badass helmet sculpt didn't seem to do him much good!
The simple answer behind this is that it wouldn't make sense to have ghost-dad wearing his Vader suit since he just rejected the dark side and redeemed himself, so he needs to be portrayed as a good guy again (plus that armor had just been burned up in the previous scene). And all the senior Jedi depicted up to this point had been wearing robes.
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKERS
Lets talk about Count Dooku. Why is it that in ROTJ they can totaly have Vader have his heart change, but then Lucas decides that it is totally cool to make all the prequels riddiculous morality plays without any shades of grey?
Why can't Dooku actually be a good guy as they imply might possibly be the case? It's a brilliant twist that makes those films so much better. The Jedi's, rather than being all knowing good guys against obviously evil guys, are instead clouded by their own sense of being perfect good guys into destroying the only guy that is going to stop Palpatine.
It's much less stupid that way. And there is a lesson about hubris.
I completely agree. Hell when Dooku fought Obi-wan, Anakin and Yoda on Geonosis, at points he seemed almost conflicted. There was one decent book that came out during the Clone Wars era that involves him nearly turning back to the Light Side at the urging of Yoda. It was very well written and surprised the hell out of me. In fact it was the untimely arrival of Anakin and Obi-wan that screwed it up.
The Jedi Ghosts thing doesn't necessarily establish it as the official Jedi attire. Yoda's still looks different enough that it could just be a robe, and Anakin may only be wearing one because he is from Tatooine and that's what he wore there, just like Ben.
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Linespider5ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGERRegistered Userregular
I mean, honestly, armor vs a lightsaber doesn't seem like it would do alot, at least how it was portrayed in the OT. In fact, if you were thinking that you were going to fight other light saber wielders you would probably want something incredibly light so it wouldn't hamper your mobility at all. Although, running around in dance leotard would not have been cool, even in the late 70s.
However, in all other non lightsaber dual situations, wearing armor would be preferred. I get it you can deflect blaster fire with your lightsaber, but just in case someone ganks you or you can't block it all, body armor would be practical and smart.
So I could see the robes used as a ritualistic thing when you are going to fight another light saber wielder, but otherwise, I agree with Ross.
(Also fuck wearing robes when you are in some crappy one man fighter, ESPECIALLY when you are in a massive dogfight over Naboo or Courasant or whatever. Space suit with oxygen system so if you did manage to survive your fighter getting disabled you wouldn't suffocate in space).
Lets talk about Count Dooku. Why is it that in ROTJ they can totaly have Vader have his heart change, but then Lucas decides that it is totally cool to make all the prequels riddiculous morality plays without any shades of grey?
Why can't Dooku actually be a good guy as they imply might possibly be the case? It's a brilliant twist that makes those films so much better. The Jedi's, rather than being all knowing good guys against obviously evil guys, are instead clouded by their own sense of being perfect good guys into destroying the only guy that is going to stop Palpatine.
It's much less stupid that way. And there is a lesson about hubris.
I didn't like how the separatists were portrayed- they were nothing more than a bunch of dumb dicks who were being used by Palpatine. I would have much preferred if they were portrayed more sympathetically as a group of planets and organizations that honestly wanted a clean break from the dysfunctional Republic. It's never really explained why they were going along with the whole plan, since we don't see any real reason why the groups involved would want to secede from the Republic.
I guess my complaint is just how one Sith Lord was basically able to manipulate the entire galaxy to his own ends, even though many of the actions he tricked people into undertaking were completely against their own interests.
Aetian Jupiter - 41 Gunslinger - The Old Republic
Rigorous Scholarship
I think a problem is that if you block a lightsaber with something that is not a lightsaber, your weapon would be cut in half.
One of the comics has a Jedi Master sparring against a student. The student is using a lightsaber. The Master is using his walking stick. But the lightsaber doesn't cut the stick, because the Master has basically infused the stick with the Force. The lesson is basically that the lightsaber is just a tool, the Force is the true weapon.
There's also cortosis, which basically shorts out a lightsaber if the lightsaber hits it.
The real problem with that scene, as Plinkett points out, is that Obi Wan's blaster-shield and shooty-ball training session seems like an ad-hoc, let's-use-whatever-happens-to-be-on-the-ship thing
and then Lucas turns it into a standard part of Jedi training because you can never have too many references to the OT and every random little thing in the OT has to be significant
This happened with everything too.
Robes, Force Lightning, Darth, and a bunch of other things I can't be bothered to think of right now.
And then he goes and doesn't use the callbacks I wanted him too.
1. When Palpatine dies, there's this big rush of blue light/wind. Zahn copied this for C'baoth's death, saying that it was Dark Side energy being released when the user died.
But when Darth Maul and Count Dooku die, there's no similar explosion. They just die like normal people.
2. When Obi-wan and Yoda die, their bodies vanish. This is a pretty tried and true death scene for great people, as if they're not so much dying as transcending to a higher plane of existence. You see it everywhere from Moses in the Bible to Master Oogway (the tortoise) in Kung Fu Panda.
What happens when Qui-gon dies? He dies like any other person, leaving behind a corpse.
(note: it's a bit iffy for Anakin/Vader. Luke is shown burning Vader's armor on the pyre, but it could just be an empty shell)
I thought Lucas wasn't happy with Cortosis (or Mandalorian Iron). As in, he thought nothing should stop a lightsaber. (Except water, but he cut that from TPM.)
Also, based on the fact that we see a Force-ghost Anakin, I think we have to assume that the fleshy parts vanished from the Vader suit.
As far as Qui-Gon goes...
He doesn't disappear, but he his able to contact Yoda, and later Obi-Wan. I think he's supposed to be a proto-Force ghost. Maybe if he would have had more time to compose himself, he would been more than just a disembodied voice. I think the current lore is that he trained Yoda and Obi-Wan how to pass over completely. Anakin just gets to do it because he's special. Whatever.
And then he goes and doesn't use the callbacks I wanted him too.
1. When Palpatine dies, there's this big rush of blue light/wind. Zahn copied this for C'baoth's death, saying that it was Dark Side energy being released when the user died.
But when Darth Maul and Count Dooku die, there's no similar explosion. They just die like normal people.
2. When Obi-wan and Yoda die, their bodies vanish. This is a pretty tried and true death scene for great people, as if they're not so much dying as transcending to a higher plane of existence. You see it everywhere from Moses in the Bible to Master Oogway (the tortoise) in Kung Fu Panda.
What happens when Qui-gon dies? He dies like any other person, leaving behind a corpse.
(note: it's a bit iffy for Anakin/Vader. Luke is shown burning Vader's armor on the pyre, but it could just be an empty shell)
1: Yeah, I agree with you there, though I suppose you could argue that Dooku wasn't dark side enough for that to happen.
2: We know that 4 people left behind force-ghosts: Obi-wan, Yoda, Qui-gon and Anakin/Vader. Qui-gon figure out how to do it, and managed it without disappearing his body, then came back and taught Obi-wan and Yoda. Presumably, because both of them knew they were about to die, they just disappear instead of leaving a body. Vader we see die on screen, and doesn't fade away (I suppose the other 3 found a way to force-ghost him for at least the bit at the end of RotJ.
So in the end, we have two with bodies, two without. The only difference is that the people who disappeared knew it was coming, the other two didn't
I thought Lucas wasn't happy with Cortosis (or Mandalorian Iron). As in, he thought nothing should stop a lightsaber. (Except water, but he cut that from TPM.)
Also, based on the fact that we see a Force-ghost Anakin, I think we have to assume that the fleshy parts vanished from the Vader suit.
As far as Qui-Gon goes...
He doesn't disappear, but he his able to contact Yoda, and later Obi-Wan. I think he's supposed to be a proto-Force ghost. Maybe if he would have had more time to compose himself, he would been more than just a disembodied voice. I think the current lore is that he trained Yoda and Obi-Wan how to pass over completely. Anakin just gets to do it because he's special. Whatever.
IRL, Qui-Gon would've actually appeared, but had broken his leg and so couldn't film.
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
However, in all other non lightsaber dual situations, wearing armor would be preferred. I get it you can deflect blaster fire with your lightsaber, but just in case someone ganks you or you can't block it all, body armor would be practical and smart.
So I could see the robes used as a ritualistic thing when you are going to fight another light saber wielder, but otherwise, I agree with Ross.
The big clincher for me was the all-out Jedi freeforall on Geonosis, and everyone shows up in their skivvies. There was literally ONE single bad guy with a lightsaber they had to deal with, yet they send in fifty guys with swords against an army of bug-men and robots? Why not one guy with a really big magnet?
Also, and I say this without any schadenfreude, but I wish there was a way Joseph Campbell could take his critical appraisal to the Prequel and give us the kind of analysis unique to him about what this trilogy ended up really being about.
That would be pretty rad. Or sad. Probably a little of both.
Because thanks to the PT, the narrative throughline of the saga is horrendously, irreparably muddled. Anakin Skywalker is a terrible, terrible character, and at no point should be seen as a protagonist by any reasonable stretch of the imagination. Worse, in the PT he does the cardinal sin of screen-writing: he has no arc. He starts off as a weird creep with attachment issues and overly-emotional resistance to authority (motivated by nothing apparent), and ends the PT as a murderous creep with homicidal attachment issues. That's not an arc. That's not a fall from grace. That's just a psychopath being given a duffel bag full of sharp objects and doing what comes natural.
Anikin could have been a good protagonist. His fall to the dark side would be great to see. Another option is to make him a villainous protagonist, in contrast to Luke. The latter would have be when he turns to the dark side fully, hunting Jedi, massacring anyone dumb enough to get in his way etc.
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ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
What ultimately made Anakin's "fall" feel especially weak for me was reading the arc that was Jacen's fall.
AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
The "fall" of Anakin Skywalker was less a "fall from grace" and more a "I can't believe that dude fell for that." Anakin chose evil because Palpatine gave him a soft-sell on some unfounded hokum.
Dramatic!
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Linespider5ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGERRegistered Userregular
Also, and I say this without any schadenfreude, but I wish there was a way Joseph Campbell could take his critical appraisal to the Prequel and give us the kind of analysis unique to him about what this trilogy ended up really being about.
That would be pretty rad. Or sad. Probably a little of both.
Because thanks to the PT, the narrative throughline of the saga is horrendously, irreparably muddled. Anakin Skywalker is a terrible, terrible character, and at no point should be seen as a protagonist by any reasonable stretch of the imagination. Worse, in the PT he does the cardinal sin of screen-writing: he has no arc. He starts off as a weird creep with attachment issues and overly-emotional resistance to authority (motivated by nothing apparent), and ends the PT as a murderous creep with homicidal attachment issues. That's not an arc. That's not a fall from grace. That's just a psychopath being given a duffel bag full of sharp objects and doing what comes natural.
Anikin could have been a good protagonist. His fall to the dark side would be great to see. Another option is to make him a villainous protagonist, in contrast to Luke. The latter would have be when he turns to the dark side fully, hunting Jedi, massacring anyone dumb enough to get in his way etc.
The prequel trilogy being about a dark victory against a bloated, clueless republic unable to value what it has or get out of the way of people who want something better would be rather enjoyable.
The robes are probably standard issue but probably not for combat. It makes sense for the Jedi to wear them during casual events, meditation, diplomatic missions, etc. However, when they need to go into combat, it would make much more sense to wear something that won't have fabric flailing around when they're fighting.
The prequel trilogy being about a dark victory against a bloated, clueless republic unable to value what it has or get out of the way of people who want something better would be rather enjoyable.
That was the kind of story they were setting up with KotoR2.
However, the problem with that is which side do the Jedi help? If the Republic is splitting apart due to its own inadequacies then the conflict won't be one of good vs. evil, it'll be more due to greed and selfishness. None of the factions would really deserve the Jedi's help.
What ultimately made Anakin's "fall" feel especially weak for me was reading the arc that was Jacen's fall.
That was a fall done right, imo.
Tartakovsky ruined any enjoyment I might have gotten from the prequels. I was way too excited to see Grievous on the big screen. He also ruined everything that involved watching storm troopers flail about uselessly.
Nope. An ad-hoc fan rationalization doesn't make it less retarded.
EDIT: That scene encapsulates the entire function of that film: it's a long-ass toy commercial. Look at this, kids - then go beg your parents to buy you the lightsaber at Toys R Us. Alongside the six-legged AT-AT toy, the battle droid toys, the flying taxi toys Skywalker was jumping between, etc.
The Ender on
With Love and Courage
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AManFromEarthLet's get to twerk!The King in the SwampRegistered Userregular
I hate Clone Wars the film the most of anything Star Wars related. It is boring to watch, it makes no sense and it butchers the Star Wars continuity all to Hell.
"The Galactic Asian Federation, who is full of stupid short cowards because lol azn, are amassing armies of battle droids. Because that's what you do when there's a trade dispute - mass produce huge armies of robots and start wiping-out planetary populations. Anyhow, the solution to this problem is clearly to use a mystery army of clones churned-out by one planet in a forgotten corner of the galaxy. Because one planet producing clones would totally be industrially competitive with a galaxy-wide robot manufacturing operation."
With Love and Courage
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NocrenLt Futz, Back in ActionNorth CarolinaRegistered Userregular
It didn't seem too bad to me. Kind of how no matter what your job in the military is, you're still trained to use a gun.
Except that they're children? And I'm pretty sure the U.S. military does not hand M-16s to American kids and tell them to go practice sharpshooting?
No, but some parents feel that's their job anyway.
Also, I guess I could research it but is Lipton/Brisk a subsidiary of Pepsi? I'm seeing a big Brisk push with the 3D release of Phantom, almost as much as there was for Doritos/Pepsi back in 99, and I'm wondering if that's a contract holdover or something.
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Linespider5ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGERRegistered Userregular
The robes are probably standard issue but probably not for combat. It makes sense for the Jedi to wear them during casual events, meditation, diplomatic missions, etc. However, when they need to go into combat, it would make much more sense to wear something that won't have fabric flailing around when they're fighting.
The prequel trilogy being about a dark victory against a bloated, clueless republic unable to value what it has or get out of the way of people who want something better would be rather enjoyable.
That was the kind of story they were setting up with KotoR2.
However, the problem with that is which side do the Jedi help? If the Republic is splitting apart due to its own inadequacies then the conflict won't be one of good vs. evil, it'll be more due to greed and selfishness. None of the factions would really deserve the Jedi's help.
But, but...see.
If it's not one of good versus evil, Jedi can end up entangled on both sides of the conflict. The bigger picture might be policies of greed and selfishness, but on the ground level it's about people (aliens or not) and, generally speaking, people tend to be reasonable, especially the ones on the ground level that want to live their lives in a decent place surrounded by agreeable neighbors with some kind of future they can entrust to their children. Total Jedi bait. The leaders of the competing ideologies may well be insufferable tools, but you get below that...it starts to become more difficult. Like it or not, there are millions of innocent galactic citizens involved.
It would actually be rather amusing if the Jedi that go out to cut up mans and save the day are considered bothersome rebels and the actual Jedi just stay in their temple on one planet all day being vague dicks and doing nothing. Vader didn't even bother to off them because they're functionally dead anyway.
was the term "Sith" even in the OT anywhere? I can't recall that word ever being uttered in the OT movies, but it is now apparently central to the Star Wars mythos...
Joolander on
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South hostI obey without questionRegistered Userregular
was the term "Sith" even in the OT anywhere? I can't recall that word ever being uttered in the OT movies, but it is now apparently central to the Star Wars mythos...
It was mentioned in the novelization of A New Hope, according to Wikipedia.
Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
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It's not like the pain train from Lucas ever stops, but when LucasArts released an Special Edition of TFU2 that cost $80, that's like . . . a crime.
That would be pretty rad. Or sad. Probably a little of both.
Because thanks to the PT, the narrative throughline of the saga is horrendously, irreparably muddled. Anakin Skywalker is a terrible, terrible character, and at no point should be seen as a protagonist by any reasonable stretch of the imagination. Worse, in the PT he does the cardinal sin of screen-writing: he has no arc. He starts off as a weird creep with attachment issues and overly-emotional resistance to authority (motivated by nothing apparent), and ends the PT as a murderous creep with homicidal attachment issues. That's not an arc. That's not a fall from grace. That's just a psychopath being given a duffel bag full of sharp objects and doing what comes natural.
It's not odd to see a Jedi in the KotoR era actually wearing armor, rather than just robes. And I like that.
Critical Failures - Havenhold Campaign • August St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
I posted a rundown from my fanwank version of the PT in the old thread, but this brings up a point in that opus that I didn't articulate, and that is the attire of the Jedi.
In the OT, there is no real precedent for the Jedi looking or acting like a monastic order. Ben wears robes when we first meet him, but Ben lives on a desert planet, so that makes a lot of sense. Everyone on Tattooine wears robes; jawas, Uncle Owen, random characters in the background. Shit, even Luke is wearing a poncho and a big floppy hat. It's the desert. You gotta cover up, and robes are a great way to do that since they're also billowy and don't collect a lot of heat.
Next, look at the active Jedi: Luke, Yoda, and Vader. Luke wears combat attire and flight suits when appropriate, and brings training fatigues to Dagobah. He fights Vader in ESB in a jumpsuit, and fights him again in ROTJ in a different jumpsuit. Earlier in ROTJ, Luke wears a robe, but guess what? He's back on Tattooine! As soon as shit gets real again on Endor, he's back in standard-issue military gear. Yoda is in a robe, but Yoda is Yoda and doesn't exactly exert himself. He might as well be wearing his pajamas. There's certainly no effort taken by Yoda to wear his robe in any formal or purposeful way; it's just a tattered old robe that he wears over a tattered old shirt. Likewise, Vader doesn't change his costume, but other than a loose cape for style points, his outfit is purely functional. It's a hard-armored suit that also doubles as his iron lung.
At most, the OT establishes that robes are for:
- people who are in hot climates
- Jedi on laundry day
- old people
It also establishes that robes are pretty shit for:
- fighting
- riding speeders
So why does every force user in the PT wear robes like they're going out of style? They're impractical. They're dangerous. When you're covered in rainwater and fighting against a jet-pack guy who is shooting at you, they're dangerously impractical. In any version of the PT I'd cook up, if Jedi are fighting, the Jedi are armored up. It only makes sense.
I think that Ben's robes were supposed to simply be a reflection of him living on Tatooine, but by Jedi, they were the official apparel of the Order.
At most, that implies that Jedi robes are for lounging. Which is fine. You want to meditate and hang out? Throw on a robe, they're comfy. Even on a higher plane of existence.
Need to fly a plane or join the infantry? Maybe try something a little more durable and practical.
That's probably how he got to be a ghost.
Oh, I'm not arguing that it's not dumb. I'm just saying it's not a PT invention.
SWTOR and the Clone Wars (both the CG and Tartakovsky's wrt Obi-Wan) both have more logical looks.
Yeah, I dig the Tartakovsky look.
Well that suit of armor with the badass helmet sculpt didn't seem to do him much good!
The simple answer behind this is that it wouldn't make sense to have ghost-dad wearing his Vader suit since he just rejected the dark side and redeemed himself, so he needs to be portrayed as a good guy again (plus that armor had just been burned up in the previous scene). And all the senior Jedi depicted up to this point had been wearing robes.
I completely agree. Hell when Dooku fought Obi-wan, Anakin and Yoda on Geonosis, at points he seemed almost conflicted. There was one decent book that came out during the Clone Wars era that involves him nearly turning back to the Light Side at the urging of Yoda. It was very well written and surprised the hell out of me. In fact it was the untimely arrival of Anakin and Obi-wan that screwed it up.
However, in all other non lightsaber dual situations, wearing armor would be preferred. I get it you can deflect blaster fire with your lightsaber, but just in case someone ganks you or you can't block it all, body armor would be practical and smart.
So I could see the robes used as a ritualistic thing when you are going to fight another light saber wielder, but otherwise, I agree with Ross.
(Also fuck wearing robes when you are in some crappy one man fighter, ESPECIALLY when you are in a massive dogfight over Naboo or Courasant or whatever. Space suit with oxygen system so if you did manage to survive your fighter getting disabled you wouldn't suffocate in space).
I guess my complaint is just how one Sith Lord was basically able to manipulate the entire galaxy to his own ends, even though many of the actions he tricked people into undertaking were completely against their own interests.
Rigorous Scholarship
One of the comics has a Jedi Master sparring against a student. The student is using a lightsaber. The Master is using his walking stick. But the lightsaber doesn't cut the stick, because the Master has basically infused the stick with the Force. The lesson is basically that the lightsaber is just a tool, the Force is the true weapon.
There's also cortosis, which basically shorts out a lightsaber if the lightsaber hits it.
And then he goes and doesn't use the callbacks I wanted him too.
1. When Palpatine dies, there's this big rush of blue light/wind. Zahn copied this for C'baoth's death, saying that it was Dark Side energy being released when the user died.
But when Darth Maul and Count Dooku die, there's no similar explosion. They just die like normal people.
2. When Obi-wan and Yoda die, their bodies vanish. This is a pretty tried and true death scene for great people, as if they're not so much dying as transcending to a higher plane of existence. You see it everywhere from Moses in the Bible to Master Oogway (the tortoise) in Kung Fu Panda.
What happens when Qui-gon dies? He dies like any other person, leaving behind a corpse.
(note: it's a bit iffy for Anakin/Vader. Luke is shown burning Vader's armor on the pyre, but it could just be an empty shell)
Also, based on the fact that we see a Force-ghost Anakin, I think we have to assume that the fleshy parts vanished from the Vader suit.
As far as Qui-Gon goes...
1: Yeah, I agree with you there, though I suppose you could argue that Dooku wasn't dark side enough for that to happen.
2: We know that 4 people left behind force-ghosts: Obi-wan, Yoda, Qui-gon and Anakin/Vader. Qui-gon figure out how to do it, and managed it without disappearing his body, then came back and taught Obi-wan and Yoda. Presumably, because both of them knew they were about to die, they just disappear instead of leaving a body. Vader we see die on screen, and doesn't fade away (I suppose the other 3 found a way to force-ghost him for at least the bit at the end of RotJ.
So in the end, we have two with bodies, two without. The only difference is that the people who disappeared knew it was coming, the other two didn't
IRL, Qui-Gon would've actually appeared, but had broken his leg and so couldn't film.
The big clincher for me was the all-out Jedi freeforall on Geonosis, and everyone shows up in their skivvies. There was literally ONE single bad guy with a lightsaber they had to deal with, yet they send in fifty guys with swords against an army of bug-men and robots? Why not one guy with a really big magnet?
Anikin could have been a good protagonist. His fall to the dark side would be great to see. Another option is to make him a villainous protagonist, in contrast to Luke. The latter would have be when he turns to the dark side fully, hunting Jedi, massacring anyone dumb enough to get in his way etc.
That was a fall done right, imo.
Dramatic!
The prequel trilogy being about a dark victory against a bloated, clueless republic unable to value what it has or get out of the way of people who want something better would be rather enjoyable.
That was the kind of story they were setting up with KotoR2.
However, the problem with that is which side do the Jedi help? If the Republic is splitting apart due to its own inadequacies then the conflict won't be one of good vs. evil, it'll be more due to greed and selfishness. None of the factions would really deserve the Jedi's help.
Tartakovsky ruined any enjoyment I might have gotten from the prequels. I was way too excited to see Grievous on the big screen. He also ruined everything that involved watching storm troopers flail about uselessly.
Except that they're children? And I'm pretty sure the U.S. military does not hand M-16s to American kids and tell them to go practice sharpshooting?
They were training sabers.
Nope. An ad-hoc fan rationalization doesn't make it less retarded.
EDIT: That scene encapsulates the entire function of that film: it's a long-ass toy commercial. Look at this, kids - then go beg your parents to buy you the lightsaber at Toys R Us. Alongside the six-legged AT-AT toy, the battle droid toys, the flying taxi toys Skywalker was jumping between, etc.
The US Military doesn't take kids away when they're born to be indoctrinated into a warrior monk culture. Yet.
"The Galactic Asian Federation, who is full of stupid short cowards because lol azn, are amassing armies of battle droids. Because that's what you do when there's a trade dispute - mass produce huge armies of robots and start wiping-out planetary populations. Anyhow, the solution to this problem is clearly to use a mystery army of clones churned-out by one planet in a forgotten corner of the galaxy. Because one planet producing clones would totally be industrially competitive with a galaxy-wide robot manufacturing operation."
No, but some parents feel that's their job anyway.
Also, I guess I could research it but is Lipton/Brisk a subsidiary of Pepsi? I'm seeing a big Brisk push with the 3D release of Phantom, almost as much as there was for Doritos/Pepsi back in 99, and I'm wondering if that's a contract holdover or something.
But, but...see.
If it's not one of good versus evil, Jedi can end up entangled on both sides of the conflict. The bigger picture might be policies of greed and selfishness, but on the ground level it's about people (aliens or not) and, generally speaking, people tend to be reasonable, especially the ones on the ground level that want to live their lives in a decent place surrounded by agreeable neighbors with some kind of future they can entrust to their children. Total Jedi bait. The leaders of the competing ideologies may well be insufferable tools, but you get below that...it starts to become more difficult. Like it or not, there are millions of innocent galactic citizens involved.
It would actually be rather amusing if the Jedi that go out to cut up mans and save the day are considered bothersome rebels and the actual Jedi just stay in their temple on one planet all day being vague dicks and doing nothing. Vader didn't even bother to off them because they're functionally dead anyway.
It was mentioned in the novelization of A New Hope, according to Wikipedia.
Nope.
But it is in the novelization of ANH. Then again, so is The Journal of the Whills, so there you go.