Multiplatform games have a huge advantage when it comes to those overall sales.
Is Rock Band out this year? It would be a good dark horse - broader appeal than any of the other games (I mean, who doesn't want it?) but the price may limit sales numbers.
Yes, all three providing games, made by the same publishers in the same genres easily falls under filling "different needs"
This is an excuse of a second or third rate business model. Global models don't seek to be different from their competitors, they seek to be better than them. Better in this case being roughly equal to profit and mindshare. Niche market players seek to be different than their main competitors, usually because they just can't compete in their league. Look at Apple. This is a company that fits both of these models for two different products. The ipod is a leader, and the mac line is a niche player.
Hardly. Global models *constantly* strive to be different from their competitors. Having a differentiated offering, you see, enables lovely things like price premiums and uncontested space. Doing it "better" is differentiation. So is doing it differently.
Do you seriously claim that the games that most effectively display the value of the Wii are the same as those that most effectively display the value of the 360 or PS3? Wii Sports could not have been made for any other console. I rather doubt that Dead Rising could have been made for the Wii. This isn't "same publishers, same genres, same needs". It's much harder to distinguish between the value proposition of the PS3 and the 360 - but I don't think that the village idiot could confuse either for the value proposition of the Wii.
This is simply marketing 101. Differentiate your product so that it fills different needs than those of your competitors. There's no niche here - just a whole bunch of people who look for different things when they play games. Some of them choose Wii, some choose PS3, and some choose 360. They base their choice on what their needs are. Do they need a cheap console? Do they need a console they can play with friends and family? Do they need something to show off that fancy HD set? Need to play neat remote waving sports game they saw Steven Colbert playing with on TV? Need to play online? Need something fun, but are a bit intimidated by these "con-souls"?
This set of needs a product meets is called a "value proposition", and it's evident to the most brain damaged among us that the current lot of consoles have different value props.
So differentiation - or meeting different needs than the other products out there - is absolutely critical to any new product introduction. There's a flipside however. "Irrelevant differentiation" is when a product invests in features that a customer doesn't need - indicated by the fact that they're not willing to pay for that differentiation. You may think it's the most amazing thing in the world, but if the customer doesn't pay for it - well fuck it, you lose. I'm sure we all have lots and LOTS of trouble pointing to the standard bearer for this one this gen.
The entire point of this is that meeting different needs, contrary to the mouth-diarrhea of whoever it is I'm responding to, is in fact one of the most crucial things a successful product can do - whether it's aimed at a niche market or a global market.
Wow, you did a great job of both proving and disproving my point. My point is that for a vast majority of people who purchase videogames, the three system are in the exact same market. The games that show up on the PS3 and 360 are not "vastly" different from those that show up on the Wii. Some publishers will say that said game "could only be done on console x" and they may be right. Then a few months later they decide that they will sell more if said game was on console y and z as well.
Now you mentioned differentiation as a way to secure a premium price, and you're absolutely correct. The problem is that these three systems are aiming for the same market. Sure, the 360 may be a bit more targeted to an older audience, and the PS3 and Wii might be more targeted to a general audience, but this sure isn't the luxury car market we are talking about here. We are talking about one market with three different products, all within a few hundred bucks price difference. These three systems are drawing upon basically the same pool of developers for third party games.
Just look to the past for all of the announcements of both Sony and Microsoft starting to focus more on the casual market. If they really were in a different battle than Nintendo, they wouldn't even bother going after their bread and butter.
GTA4 will be up there. MGS4 if indeed it is rumoured to be out this fall. Halo 3 has gotta shift a few million.
I doubt MGS4 will be the best selling videogame of 2007 because the sales of MGS3 looked like they suffered because it was released close to another big game. It is also only being released on a console that looks like it won't reach the same amount of people as the 360 by the end of the year. I am going to say it will either be GTA4 because it will be on both consoles with a massive amount of possibly equaling that of Halo 3, or it will be Halo 3 because nearly everybody with a 360 will get it and the amount of hype that Microsoft can create for it.
Edit: If the price of the Core 360 is dropped, I am sure Nintendo could easily drop the price of the Wii without losing much profit. Do people actually buy the Core?
MGS4 is not coming out this fall. Maybe the week before christmas, but even then it won't do jack compared to GTA IV and Halo 3.
Halo 3 has a good shot, but that's if you're going on North American figures alone. If you are going worldwide, then the best selling game this year is going to either be Wii Sports (unless you disqualify it on being a pack in) or GTA IV/one of the Pokemon titles, probably Diamond.
The differentiation on the Wii control scheme is pretty damn big. Ubi released Rayman: Raving Rabbids on the 360. Look how well it did minus the key part of it's value prop.
The need these systems are fulfilling is not "playing games". That's way too broad. What kind of games? What's the makeup of the software library? How do I control it? How's the online play? How does it look? You're getting VERY different answers to these questions on the 360 and the Wii - even if it's the exact same title transposed.
Look, this is a bit different to adapt to, given that in past generations, a game for one console was generally equally feasible on the others. This just doesn't hold true this time. Yes, you can pretty much choose your platform between the PS3 and the 360 without altering the game much. But if you're targeting the Wii, the game itself needs to change.
As such, the types of gameplay I can expect if I buy a Wii are qualitatively different than those I can expect buying a 360. It's much more than "they both play games." They play games differently, and any analysis of their market positions needs to take that into account - and that's why the PS3 and the 360 need to be grouped together, but the Wii needs to be evaluated differently. Games for the PS3 and the 360 will often be clones of each other if they're multiplatform - but making a Wii version requires making substantial changes both to control scheme and game engine - if not to the very design of the game.
Even just within the US, Halo 3 would need to achieve a 50% penetration to equal the sales of Wii Sports (assuming install base stays at current ratios - which is unlikely). That may be achieveable, or even likely, but for my money Wii Sports is the likely winner. (Of course, if you restrict it to games released this year, Wii Sports is disqualified)
GTA4 will be up there. MGS4 if indeed it is rumoured to be out this fall. Halo 3 has gotta shift a few million.
I doubt MGS4 will be the best selling videogame of 2007 because the sales of MGS3 looked like they suffered because it was released close to another big game. It is also only being released on a console that looks like it won't reach the same amount of people as the 360 by the end of the year. I am going to say it will either be GTA4 because it will be on both consoles with a massive amount of possibly equaling that of Halo 3, or it will be Halo 3 because nearly everybody with a 360 will get it and the amount of hype that Microsoft can create for it.
Edit: If the price of the Core 360 is dropped, I am sure Nintendo could easily drop the price of the Wii without losing much profit. Do people actually buy the Core?
MGS4 is not coming out this fall. Maybe the week before christmas, but even then it won't do jack compared to GTA IV and Halo 3.
Halo 3 has a good shot, but that's if you're going on North American figures alone. If you are going worldwide, then the best selling game this year is going to either be Wii Sports (unless you disqualify it on being a pack in) or GTA IV/one of the Pokemon titles, probably Diamond.
If Smash Bros Brawl manages to make it in before Christmas, I'd say it definitely has a shot as well.
I mean, there'll be a lot more Wiis in circulation then than 360s, for one thing, and Melee was the biggest game on the Gamecube.
The differentiation on the Wii control scheme is pretty damn big. Ubi released Rayman: Raving Rabbids on the 360. Look how well it did minus the key part of it's value prop.
The need these systems are fulfilling is not "playing games". That's way too broad. What kind of games? What's the makeup of the software library? How do I control it? How's the online play? How does it look? You're getting VERY different answers to these questions on the 360 and the Wii - even if it's the exact same title transposed.
Look, this is a bit different to adapt to, given that in past generations, a game for one console was generally equally feasible on the others. This just doesn't hold true this time. Yes, you can pretty much choose your platform between the PS3 and the 360 without altering the game much. But if you're targeting the Wii, the game itself needs to change.
As such, the types of gameplay I can expect if I buy a Wii are qualitatively different than those I can expect buying a 360. It's much more than "they both play games." They play games differently, and any analysis of their market positions needs to take that into account - and that's why the PS3 and the 360 need to be grouped together, but the Wii needs to be evaluated differently. Games for the PS3 and the 360 will often be clones of each other if they're multiplatform - but making a Wii version requires making substantial changes both to control scheme and game engine - if not to the very design of the game.
But why would one feel the need to group them differently in terms of sales, which is what this thread does. Even if there are a lot of games that control differently on the Wii, there are a lot that don't. You can play RE4 in the same way as you could on the GCN/PS2, or DBZ:BT 2 for that matter. Before you bring up the fact that those are just waggle ports, look no further than SSB:B. That is a game that for all intents and purposes could be done on the other two systems.
If you are going to differentiate the Wii in a sales thread, you should probably go ahead and seperate the PS3 and 360. They have their fair share of differences too. Once we do that, what do we have to talk about? Nothing, that's what.
This is a thread primarily concerned with numbers, and what various companies are doing to improve said numbers. These are three game machines. Sure, they have different titles and control schemes, but they have the same damn market with the same realities.
What I'm talking about is the marketing - that is, the value drivers which directly feed those numbers. I doubt that starting another thread to discuss the marketing underlying sales numbers would be looked upon kindly, so this seems to be the most appropriate place.
Dropping, for the moment, the issue of whether games made for the Wii are different from those made for other systems, there's definitely the *perception* that this is the case. IR aiming for shooters? A lightsaber game controlled via nearly 1:1 motion controls? These are value propositions that can't be emulated on the other consoles, and they carve out a distinctly different space for the Wii.
Because of this, the Wii does not compete as directly with the 360 or the PS3 as they do with each other. Therefore, the sales totals of the Wii do not necessarily take anything away from the 360 or the PS3 - unless you count the more casual market, which both the 360 and PS3 have done a pretty bad job of reaching in the first place.
In summary, the 360's goal for June 30 was 12 million consoles sold, while what they actually shipped 11.6 million.
Now, one thing that I'm unsure about is that if they meant their goal was 12 million shipped and they shipped 11.6 million or if in fact the wording is right that they planned on selling through 12 million but instead shipped less than that. If in fact it is the second, it's quite bad news for them it seems.
I don't have any numbers with me, but it seems to be it isn't that far ahead of the Xbox 1 in terms of sales.
i predict mg4 will flop. no one will care with everything else that's coming out. it's just going to be a repeat of the year halo 2 and san andreas came out. there were a plethora of good games that very very few people seemed to go out and buy (beyond good an evil, anyone? MP:2?) i also fail to see how people will give heed to a game with such a smaller installed console base.
In summary, the 360's goal for June 30 was 12 million consoles sold, while what they actually shipped 11.6 million.
Now, one thing that I'm unsure about is that if they meant their goal was 12 million shipped and they shipped 11.6 million or if in fact the wording is right that they planned on selling through 12 million but instead shipped less than that. If in fact it is the second, it's quite bad news for them it seems.
I don't have any numbers with me, but it seems to be it isn't that far ahead of the Xbox 1 in terms of sales.
11.6 million shipped is hardly what I would call bad news.
Lest we forget, 360 has the best lineup for games this fall and is sure to sell a heap of consoles off the back of their huge exclusives, Halo 3 being the focal point.
In summary, the 360's goal for June 30 was 12 million consoles sold, while what they actually shipped 11.6 million.
Now, one thing that I'm unsure about is that if they meant their goal was 12 million shipped and they shipped 11.6 million or if in fact the wording is right that they planned on selling through 12 million but instead shipped less than that. If in fact it is the second, it's quite bad news for them it seems.
I don't have any numbers with me, but it seems to be it isn't that far ahead of the Xbox 1 in terms of sales.
11.6 million shipped is hardly what I would call bad news.
Lest we forget, 360 has the best lineup for games this fall and is sure to sell a heap of consoles off the back of their huge exclusives, Halo 3 being the focal point.
What are the other huge exclusives? I can think of a lot of minor exclusives that will definately help, but nothing close to the hugeness of Halo 3.
i would've thought BioShock will sell a few, especially once the media kicks up a controversy storm to advertise it
Naw, the media will still be concentrated on GTA4 in terms of controversy.
i just know one of the papers here in the UK will catch wind of "that sick game where you murder children for sport" or something, and will call to get it banned. Then i'll have to explain to my mum why these games i play allow me to murder children.
Nah. Bioshock wont have controversy. You get 100 achievement points for completing the game without harvesting/killing any little sisters. That shit you cannot pass up on.
Nah. Bioshock wont have controversy. You get 100 achievement points for completing the game without harvesting/killing any little sisters. That shit you cannot pass up on.
(This is true btw)
There should be a 100 point achievement for killing all of the little girls.
Nah. Bioshock wont have controversy. You get 100 achievement points for completing the game without harvesting/killing any little sisters. That shit you cannot pass up on.
(This is true btw)
There should be a 100 point achievement for killing all of the little girls.
In summary, the 360's goal for June 30 was 12 million consoles sold, while what they actually shipped 11.6 million.
Now, one thing that I'm unsure about is that if they meant their goal was 12 million shipped and they shipped 11.6 million or if in fact the wording is right that they planned on selling through 12 million but instead shipped less than that. If in fact it is the second, it's quite bad news for them it seems.
I don't have any numbers with me, but it seems to be it isn't that far ahead of the Xbox 1 in terms of sales.
11.6 million shipped is hardly what I would call bad news.
Lest we forget, 360 has the best lineup for games this fall and is sure to sell a heap of consoles off the back of their huge exclusives, Halo 3 being the focal point.
Obviously Halo 3 is going to move a lot of consoles, but I think it's highly possible that they won't move as many as people are expecting due to so many of the Halo fans already being on board with the system. GTA IV will help some too, obviously, but again, I think a pretty substantial portion of the GTA crowd has already upgraded.
To say nothing of the fact that it will still more than likely be outsold by Wii during the Fall-Holiday season. If it doesn't it'll be more due to supply constraints than anything else.
Hmm... well, the PS3's above 10k again. Actually, the only system that didn't get a small sales boost over the last week in the top 5 was the DS. Did a shipment spontaneously combust during the course of the week, or something?
In summary, the 360's goal for June 30 was 12 million consoles sold, while what they actually shipped 11.6 million.
Now, one thing that I'm unsure about is that if they meant their goal was 12 million shipped and they shipped 11.6 million or if in fact the wording is right that they planned on selling through 12 million but instead shipped less than that. If in fact it is the second, it's quite bad news for them it seems.
I don't have any numbers with me, but it seems to be it isn't that far ahead of the Xbox 1 in terms of sales.
11.6 million shipped is hardly what I would call bad news.
Lest we forget, 360 has the best lineup for games this fall and is sure to sell a heap of consoles off the back of their huge exclusives, Halo 3 being the focal point.
"Lest we forget"?
How can we remember a "fact" that's completely subjective?
In summary, the 360's goal for June 30 was 12 million consoles sold, while what they actually shipped 11.6 million.
Now, one thing that I'm unsure about is that if they meant their goal was 12 million shipped and they shipped 11.6 million or if in fact the wording is right that they planned on selling through 12 million but instead shipped less than that. If in fact it is the second, it's quite bad news for them it seems.
I don't have any numbers with me, but it seems to be it isn't that far ahead of the Xbox 1 in terms of sales.
11.6 million shipped is hardly what I would call bad news.
Lest we forget, 360 has the best lineup for games this fall and is sure to sell a heap of consoles off the back of their huge exclusives, Halo 3 being the focal point.
"Lest we forget"?
How can we remember a "fact" that's completely subjective?
In summary, the 360's goal for June 30 was 12 million consoles sold, while what they actually shipped 11.6 million.
Now, one thing that I'm unsure about is that if they meant their goal was 12 million shipped and they shipped 11.6 million or if in fact the wording is right that they planned on selling through 12 million but instead shipped less than that. If in fact it is the second, it's quite bad news for them it seems.
I don't have any numbers with me, but it seems to be it isn't that far ahead of the Xbox 1 in terms of sales.
11.6 million shipped is hardly what I would call bad news.
Lest we forget, 360 has the best lineup for games this fall and is sure to sell a heap of consoles off the back of their huge exclusives, Halo 3 being the focal point.
"Lest we forget"?
How can we remember a "fact" that's completely subjective?
Alright. I guess I was being a little direct.
Im sure the PS3 and Wii lineups are just as good.
No, that's not it either. None of them can be the best, as that is subjective. Best selling, best reviewed, these metrics are possible, but you can't really use Best.
Wait, what? Smash Brothers is coming out? Oh then, nevermind, Wii has the best game coming out this year. :P
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited July 2007
Are there north american and/or global data/charts/graphs available too, or is this limited to just japan?
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Posts
Other than possibly Super Mario Galaxy, I can't think of any Wii game being released this year that might become a huge megahit on that level.
Is Rock Band out this year? It would be a good dark horse - broader appeal than any of the other games (I mean, who doesn't want it?) but the price may limit sales numbers.
You just keep on trying 'til you run out of cake
Shiren FC: 3093-6912-1542
Wow, you did a great job of both proving and disproving my point. My point is that for a vast majority of people who purchase videogames, the three system are in the exact same market. The games that show up on the PS3 and 360 are not "vastly" different from those that show up on the Wii. Some publishers will say that said game "could only be done on console x" and they may be right. Then a few months later they decide that they will sell more if said game was on console y and z as well.
Now you mentioned differentiation as a way to secure a premium price, and you're absolutely correct. The problem is that these three systems are aiming for the same market. Sure, the 360 may be a bit more targeted to an older audience, and the PS3 and Wii might be more targeted to a general audience, but this sure isn't the luxury car market we are talking about here. We are talking about one market with three different products, all within a few hundred bucks price difference. These three systems are drawing upon basically the same pool of developers for third party games.
Just look to the past for all of the announcements of both Sony and Microsoft starting to focus more on the casual market. If they really were in a different battle than Nintendo, they wouldn't even bother going after their bread and butter.
MGS4 is not coming out this fall. Maybe the week before christmas, but even then it won't do jack compared to GTA IV and Halo 3.
Halo 3 has a good shot, but that's if you're going on North American figures alone. If you are going worldwide, then the best selling game this year is going to either be Wii Sports (unless you disqualify it on being a pack in) or GTA IV/one of the Pokemon titles, probably Diamond.
The need these systems are fulfilling is not "playing games". That's way too broad. What kind of games? What's the makeup of the software library? How do I control it? How's the online play? How does it look? You're getting VERY different answers to these questions on the 360 and the Wii - even if it's the exact same title transposed.
Look, this is a bit different to adapt to, given that in past generations, a game for one console was generally equally feasible on the others. This just doesn't hold true this time. Yes, you can pretty much choose your platform between the PS3 and the 360 without altering the game much. But if you're targeting the Wii, the game itself needs to change.
As such, the types of gameplay I can expect if I buy a Wii are qualitatively different than those I can expect buying a 360. It's much more than "they both play games." They play games differently, and any analysis of their market positions needs to take that into account - and that's why the PS3 and the 360 need to be grouped together, but the Wii needs to be evaluated differently. Games for the PS3 and the 360 will often be clones of each other if they're multiplatform - but making a Wii version requires making substantial changes both to control scheme and game engine - if not to the very design of the game.
You just keep on trying 'til you run out of cake
Shiren FC: 3093-6912-1542
You just keep on trying 'til you run out of cake
Shiren FC: 3093-6912-1542
Smash Bros. Brawl?
or Brawl. 4854.6102.3895 Name: NU..
If Smash Bros Brawl manages to make it in before Christmas, I'd say it definitely has a shot as well.
I mean, there'll be a lot more Wiis in circulation then than 360s, for one thing, and Melee was the biggest game on the Gamecube.
edit: beat'd
But why would one feel the need to group them differently in terms of sales, which is what this thread does. Even if there are a lot of games that control differently on the Wii, there are a lot that don't. You can play RE4 in the same way as you could on the GCN/PS2, or DBZ:BT 2 for that matter. Before you bring up the fact that those are just waggle ports, look no further than SSB:B. That is a game that for all intents and purposes could be done on the other two systems.
If you are going to differentiate the Wii in a sales thread, you should probably go ahead and seperate the PS3 and 360. They have their fair share of differences too. Once we do that, what do we have to talk about? Nothing, that's what.
This is a thread primarily concerned with numbers, and what various companies are doing to improve said numbers. These are three game machines. Sure, they have different titles and control schemes, but they have the same damn market with the same realities.
I forgot about that despite Melee being the best selling GC game.
Dropping, for the moment, the issue of whether games made for the Wii are different from those made for other systems, there's definitely the *perception* that this is the case. IR aiming for shooters? A lightsaber game controlled via nearly 1:1 motion controls? These are value propositions that can't be emulated on the other consoles, and they carve out a distinctly different space for the Wii.
Because of this, the Wii does not compete as directly with the 360 or the PS3 as they do with each other. Therefore, the sales totals of the Wii do not necessarily take anything away from the 360 or the PS3 - unless you count the more casual market, which both the 360 and PS3 have done a pretty bad job of reaching in the first place.
You just keep on trying 'til you run out of cake
Shiren FC: 3093-6912-1542
In summary, the 360's goal for June 30 was 12 million consoles sold, while what they actually shipped 11.6 million.
Now, one thing that I'm unsure about is that if they meant their goal was 12 million shipped and they shipped 11.6 million or if in fact the wording is right that they planned on selling through 12 million but instead shipped less than that. If in fact it is the second, it's quite bad news for them it seems.
I don't have any numbers with me, but it seems to be it isn't that far ahead of the Xbox 1 in terms of sales.
11.6 million shipped is hardly what I would call bad news.
Lest we forget, 360 has the best lineup for games this fall and is sure to sell a heap of consoles off the back of their huge exclusives, Halo 3 being the focal point.
edit: Just sayin'
Naw, the media will still be concentrated on GTA4 in terms of controversy.
i just know one of the papers here in the UK will catch wind of "that sick game where you murder children for sport" or something, and will call to get it banned. Then i'll have to explain to my mum why these games i play allow me to murder children.
(This is true btw)
There should be a 100 point achievement for killing all of the little girls.
Its only 40.
THE MORAL DILEMMA!
Obviously Halo 3 is going to move a lot of consoles, but I think it's highly possible that they won't move as many as people are expecting due to so many of the Halo fans already being on board with the system. GTA IV will help some too, obviously, but again, I think a pretty substantial portion of the GTA crowd has already upgraded.
To say nothing of the fact that it will still more than likely be outsold by Wii during the Fall-Holiday season. If it doesn't it'll be more due to supply constraints than anything else.
The chart still looks like Pacman.
No. It's winter.
DSL 157,435
Wii 73,919
PSP 38,305
PS2 16,316
PS3 11,914
Xbox360 3,154
GBM 377
GBASP 179
GC 111
DS 45
GBA 16
Edit: Beaten
How can we remember a "fact" that's completely subjective?
Alright. I guess I was being a little direct.
Im sure the PS3 and Wii lineups are just as good.
No, that's not it either. None of them can be the best, as that is subjective. Best selling, best reviewed, these metrics are possible, but you can't really use Best.
Wait, what? Smash Brothers is coming out? Oh then, nevermind, Wii has the best game coming out this year. :P
[img]ttp://images.redial.net/mc-weekly-comparison-31.jpg[/img]
Europe numbers come out who knows when.
Check the spoilers in the OP marked "NPD" those are U.S numbers.