I appreciate James Chen but he's still not totally getting it either.
He's a comedian. He's hit on Kayo Police on stream & even hit on ME on stream before all in good fun!
Not at all relevant.
I honestly take that to mean.. look guys, Aris isn't malicious.
He may be an idiot and doesn't know when to stop, but deep down he's probably not satan himself.
My only complaint with Aris is his conversation with Jared saying that harassment and the FGC is one in the same. He's right to a degree... its an element that's present in the fgc. The problem is that he never claimed that its an element that needs changing.
He didn't just say harassment he said "sexual harassment" and he didn't just neglect to claim it needs changing he defended it's presence as something that's essential and makes the community special. He's certainly an idiot but he's also a man with a truly twisted sense of what is acceptable behavior.
As is always my recommendation with controversial topics, play Devil's Advocate with yourself. If you look at what he is actually (yet poorly) trying to put forth, you might possibly see his point of view.
Is is still wrong? Shit yeah! But then this situation goes back to what B:L, Knob and I were talking about earlier in the thread. Teaching is much preferable to crucifying.
I appreciate James Chen but he's still not totally getting it either.
He's a comedian. He's hit on Kayo Police on stream & even hit on ME on stream before all in good fun!
Not at all relevant.
I honestly take that to mean.. look guys, Aris isn't malicious.
He may be an idiot and doesn't know when to stop, but deep down he's probably not satan himself.
My only complaint with Aris is his conversation with Jared saying that harassment and the FGC is one in the same. He's right to a degree... its an element that's present in the fgc. The problem is that he never claimed that its an element that needs changing.
He didn't just say harassment he said "sexual harassment" and he didn't just neglect to claim it needs changing he defended it's presence as something that's essential and makes the community special. He's certainly an idiot but he's also a man with a truly twisted sense of what is acceptable behavior.
As is always my recommendation with controversial topics, play Devil's Advocate with yourself. If you look at what he is actually (yet poorly) trying to put forth, you might possibly see his point of view.
Is is still wrong? Shit yeah! But then this situation goes back to what B:L, Knob and I were talking about earlier in the thread. Teaching is much preferable to crucifying.
I'm absolutely disgusted by the death threats.
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Garret Dorigan"Why can't I be DLC for UMvC3?"Registered Userregular
I appreciate James Chen but he's still not totally getting it either.
He's a comedian. He's hit on Kayo Police on stream & even hit on ME on stream before all in good fun!
Not at all relevant.
I honestly take that to mean.. look guys, Aris isn't malicious.
He may be an idiot and doesn't know when to stop, but deep down he's probably not satan himself.
My only complaint with Aris is his conversation with Jared saying that harassment and the FGC is one in the same. He's right to a degree... its an element that's present in the fgc. The problem is that he never claimed that its an element that needs changing.
He didn't just say harassment he said "sexual harassment" and he didn't just neglect to claim it needs changing he defended it's presence as something that's essential and makes the community special. He's certainly an idiot but he's also a man with a truly twisted sense of what is acceptable behavior.
As is always my recommendation with controversial topics, play Devil's Advocate with yourself. If you look at what he is actually (yet poorly) trying to put forth, you might possibly see his point of view.
Is is still wrong? Shit yeah! But then this situation goes back to what B:L, Knob and I were talking about earlier in the thread. Teaching is much preferable to crucifying.
I'm absolutely disgusted by the death threats.
I find them funny, in a fatalist "jesus-christ-are-you-serious" kind of way. The hypocrisy of it is brain shattering.
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ButtersA glass of some milksRegistered Userregular
@jchensor@AvoidThePuddle actually, when someone attacked me (not joking) with sexual insults, Aris had my back.
He admitted that what he did was really bad, and he apologized to Miranda.
That tweet is irrelevant and he didn't truly apologize for his statements only that his statements made people upset. I'm not even talking about his confrontation with Miranda.
I appreciate James Chen but he's still not totally getting it either.
He's a comedian. He's hit on Kayo Police on stream & even hit on ME on stream before all in good fun!
Not at all relevant.
I honestly take that to mean.. look guys, Aris isn't malicious.
He may be an idiot and doesn't know when to stop, but deep down he's probably not satan himself.
My only complaint with Aris is his conversation with Jared saying that harassment and the FGC is one in the same. He's right to a degree... its an element that's present in the fgc. The problem is that he never claimed that its an element that needs changing.
He didn't just say harassment he said "sexual harassment" and he didn't just neglect to claim it needs changing he defended it's presence as something that's essential and makes the community special. He's certainly an idiot but he's also a man with a truly twisted sense of what is acceptable behavior.
As is always my recommendation with controversial topics, play Devil's Advocate with yourself. If you look at what he is actually (yet poorly) trying to put forth, you might possibly see his point of view.
Is is still wrong? Shit yeah! But then this situation goes back to what B:L, Knob and I were talking about earlier in the thread. Teaching is much preferable to crucifying.
I have no direct relationship to him and thus am not in a position to teach anything. Also, criticism is not crucifixion and I haven't threatened anyone's life either.
That tweet is irrelevant and he didn't truly apologize for his statements only that his statements made people upset.
Why are people assuming that was the only apology he made? Sp00ky mentioned that he apologized a million times to Miranda, and he apologized on stream as well, and Miranda said that the situation was handled and over with. This apology was apologizing for how he worded his arguments but he wasn't arguing for a harassment filled atmosphere but rather an uncensored atmosphere, which is an understandable viewpoint that was worded terribly.
Are these the people who won't be happy unless he apologizes directly to them for having a different opinion?
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ButtersA glass of some milksRegistered Userregular
@jchensor@AvoidThePuddle actually, when someone attacked me (not joking) with sexual insults, Aris had my back.
He admitted that what he did was really bad, and he apologized to Miranda.
That tweet is irrelevant and he didn't truly apologize for his statements only that his statements made people upset. I'm not even talking about his confrontation with Miranda.
I appreciate James Chen but he's still not totally getting it either.
He's a comedian. He's hit on Kayo Police on stream & even hit on ME on stream before all in good fun!
Not at all relevant.
I honestly take that to mean.. look guys, Aris isn't malicious.
He may be an idiot and doesn't know when to stop, but deep down he's probably not satan himself.
My only complaint with Aris is his conversation with Jared saying that harassment and the FGC is one in the same. He's right to a degree... its an element that's present in the fgc. The problem is that he never claimed that its an element that needs changing.
He didn't just say harassment he said "sexual harassment" and he didn't just neglect to claim it needs changing he defended it's presence as something that's essential and makes the community special. He's certainly an idiot but he's also a man with a truly twisted sense of what is acceptable behavior.
As is always my recommendation with controversial topics, play Devil's Advocate with yourself. If you look at what he is actually (yet poorly) trying to put forth, you might possibly see his point of view.
Is is still wrong? Shit yeah! But then this situation goes back to what B:L, Knob and I were talking about earlier in the thread. Teaching is much preferable to crucifying.
I have no direct relationship to him and thus am not in a position to teach anything. Also, criticism is not crucifixion and I haven't threatened anyone's life either.
I agree with you on both points. The second sentence was meant as a generality, and callback to the sentiment that we were putting forth earlier. I'm not attacking you Butters, just asking that you look at his point of view.
Aris is an idiot, I'm not arguing. But he has (in his mind) a well meaning behind his argument in the Jared conversation, and really does not see that such a thing is wrong on the level of which he speaks, due to "cultural" tendencies. We (as in the general "we"), as those that are seeing the picture in a bigger view, know that this is a thing that should not be a thing.
My argument is that we (again, general) should not deride the man, but the action, and tell him (and others that hold the same) how he is being an idiot... so that hopefully he won't be further. As such (and trust me, I know this is idealistic) criticism of the man is a wasted effort, and does nothing but give fuel to those that would do things much more severe.
Basically, as I said I wasn't attacking you, just using your words to intone a point. Forgive me if it seemed as otherwise, it wasn't my intent.
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Garret Dorigan"Why can't I be DLC for UMvC3?"Registered Userregular
I'm not even talking about his confrontation with Miranda.
Yeah I caught that, but it still seems ambiguous. What exactly should be he apologizing for then?
Butters is arguing that Aris is an idiot (which as I've touched on, there are ways in that he is) and that the views that he holds about sexual harassment and general harassment as a keystone of the FGC are idiotic. That, being a grown ass man, he should know that this is wrong, and apologize for saying it.
I'm not even talking about his confrontation with Miranda.
Yeah I caught that, but it still seems ambiguous. What exactly should be he apologizing for then?
Well, ideally he should be expressing something that shows an actual change in understanding of the problem with the comments he made to Miranda and afterward, rather than just apologizing in shame. He doesn't have to, though. He doesn't have to be a part of the conversation at all. It's not really relevant to Butters criticizing his positions in our conversation here. The best possible outcome for this discussion is probably that other folks here who might also not understand some facets of the issues will engage the topic, and people will learn things. Then the people that understand certain things will go discuss them with other people in a related discussion elsewhere or in the future.
I'm not even talking about his confrontation with Miranda.
Yeah I caught that, but it still seems ambiguous. What exactly should be he apologizing for then?
Butters is arguing that Aris is an idiot (which as I've touched on, there are ways in that he is) and that the views that he holds about sexual harassment and general harassment as a keystone of the FGC are idiotic. That, being a grown ass man, he should know that this is wrong, and apologize for saying it.
I agree. He apologized for framing the argument in the context of harassment, because as shown by his other actions where he defended someone against harassment he understands that harassment is wrong. I believe that should be satisfactory.
What he wants and argues for is a community that's casual and loose, rather than one that's overly worried about being politically correct all the time. Something similar to a circle of friends. While I don't believe in that opinion, as things need to be kept clean as the community grows, I can understand where he's coming from and it's merely an alternative opinion.
I'm not even talking about his confrontation with Miranda.
Yeah I caught that, but it still seems ambiguous. What exactly should be he apologizing for then?
Butters is arguing that Aris is an idiot (which as I've touched on, there are ways in that he is) and that the views that he holds about sexual harassment and general harassment as a keystone of the FGC are idiotic. That, being a grown ass man, he should know that this is wrong, and apologize for saying it.
Pretty much. In the statement he issued there was no real apology for the words or the sentiment. He merely apologized that people were offended by what he said. He acknowledges poor choice of words but then deflects responsibility by claiming he was taken out of context. The article on Giant bomb displayed reprehensible statements that were absolutely in context.
Garret Dorigan"Why can't I be DLC for UMvC3?"Registered Userregular
And this is where I say that we're (hopefully) finally getting to the point where everybody here realizes that they are all arguing the same point, just from slightly different angles and with different verbiage, and we can join together as an army of sanctified robots working for the good of all by words or fist.
I may have lost what I was saying there at the end, but you get the gist.
Pretty much. In the statement he issued there was no real apology for the words or the sentiment. He merely apologized that people were offended by what he said. He acknowledges poor choice of words but then deflects responsibility by claiming he was taken out of context. The article on Giant bomb displayed reprehensible statements that were absolutely in context.
It actually is out of context. The context is an interview where Jared (backstabbing mothergooser) was baiting Aris into an argument by claiming that the SC2 scene was superior by keeping it clean (despite the whole sexual assault incident), and Aris was on his 70th hour of coaching a losing team and constantly being filmed in a high-pressure reality show situation where everyone involved in the show (even the streamers) stated that everyone was under an immense amount of pressure.
(parenthesis comments were added by me)
If they didn't mention that in their article, then yes they did not quite capture the context of why he worded his argument terribly. That's what the apology is for.
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ButtersA glass of some milksRegistered Userregular
Sorry B:L but I don't care what sort of pressure or hours of coaching happened before hand when someone presents this to you:
When I go to SoCal regionals and I see a Phoenix [from Marvel vs. Capcom 3] on main stage getting blown up and there’s some dude in the audience just yelling “Bitch! Bitch!” every time she gets hit and then she killed and goes “Yeah, rape that bitch!” Yeah, that’s totally acceptable! Really? Really? You’re going to tell me that’s acceptable?
And you answer in the affirmative...that's not a wrongly attributed sentiment. That's just a terrible opinion.
ButtersA glass of some milksRegistered Userregular
edited March 2012
I've worked long hours in difficult situations many times in my personal, academic, and professional life and I can't see myself ever defending sexual harassment as part of any culture I'd choose to associate with.
And this is where I say that we're (hopefully) finally getting to the point where everybody here realizes that they are all arguing the same point, just from slightly different angles and with different verbiage, and we can join together as an army of sanctified robots working for the good of all by words or fist.
I know you want to act as mediator and have everyone resolve things together, but I think it's risky to gloss over some issues too quickly, eg., the sentiment that Miranda didn't say stop enough times or the right way to have a bearing on problematic behavior from others.
That conversation instead became, "well, he did stop, after a couple of days, but then said those other things to Jared, but that was poorly phrased and not what he actually meant, so he went on stream with Haunts and attacked people, but he's sorry if he offended anyone, except he still thinks it's important for people to be able to act that way..." And they still can! There's no formal censorship. Instead there's the public's ability to respond, to criticize, and to attempt to correct.
But it's not going to correct very well if the next time some of this shit happens, half the discussion again derails into, "Did she roll her eyes a lot when she said no? How many times does she have to laugh before my behavior doesn't count as my fault anymore?" etc.
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ButtersA glass of some milksRegistered Userregular
Sorry B:L but I don't care what sort of pressure or hours of coaching happened before hand when someone presents this to you:
When I go to SoCal regionals and I see a Phoenix [from Marvel vs. Capcom 3] on main stage getting blown up and there’s some dude in the audience just yelling “Bitch! Bitch!” every time she gets hit and then she killed and goes “Yeah, rape that bitch!” Yeah, that’s totally acceptable! Really? Really? You’re going to tell me that’s acceptable?
And you answer in the affirmative...that's not a wrongly attributed sentiment. That's just a terrible opinion.
Actually that statement is out of context too. I was actually at that tournament, sitting next to Robert Khoo, and when the Phoenix player was getting beasted on the crowd was yelling "OOOOooooOOOO" and "AAAAaaaaAAAA", and the whole "rape that bitch" was background noise that didn't even register, as it was a highly energetic loud situation where the crowd was whipped into a frenzy.
Is shouting that wrong? Of course! But I can also understand the viewpoint that policing against that is going to be tough, and will definitely affect the community. You have to consider the socioeconomic backgrounds of those who enter competitive tournaments, either middle or lower class, from working-class to ghetto neighborhoods. You are bound to get someone entering or spectating who doesn't understand classiness, and it would be extremely tough to police that while everyone is shouting at the same time in a huge crowd of audience, without turning it into a police state type of situation.
I disagree with that and I believe we can engender a clean competitive community without resorting to racial profiling or anything extreme like that. He doesn't support harassment at all, his arguments has always been about the atmosphere of the scene, and he was mainly worried that it would become an overly restrictive one.
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ButtersA glass of some milksRegistered Userregular
I don't think you know what the term "out of context" means.
You have to consider the socioeconomic backgrounds of those who enter competitive tournaments, either middle or lower class, from working-class to ghetto neighborhoods. You are bound to get someone entering or spectating who doesn't understand classiness
You have to consider the socioeconomic backgrounds of those who enter competitive tournaments, either middle or lower class, from working-class to ghetto neighborhoods. You are bound to get someone entering or spectating who doesn't understand classiness
Yeah, it's like expecting XBL or PSN comments to keep it clean. It's something I want, but it'll be definitely tough to enforce.
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Garret Dorigan"Why can't I be DLC for UMvC3?"Registered Userregular
And this is where I say that we're (hopefully) finally getting to the point where everybody here realizes that they are all arguing the same point, just from slightly different angles and with different verbiage, and we can join together as an army of sanctified robots working for the good of all by words or fist.
I know you want to act as mediator and have everyone resolve things together, but I think it's risky to gloss over some issues too quickly, eg., the sentiment that Miranda didn't say stop enough times or the right way to have a bearing on problematic behavior from others.
That conversation instead became, "well, he did stop, after a couple of days, but then said those other things to Jared, but that was poorly phrased and not what he actually meant, so he went on stream with Haunts and attacked people, but he's sorry if he offended anyone, except he still thinks it's important for people to be able to act that way..." And they still can! There's no formal censorship. Instead there's the public's ability to respond, to criticize, and to attempt to correct.
But it's not going to correct very well if the next time some of this shit happens, half the discussion again derails into, "Did she roll her eyes a lot when she said no? How many times does she have to laugh before my behavior doesn't count as my fault anymore?" etc.
Eh... it isn't that I actually want to play mediator, just that I know I'm good at it, and grognard levels of arguments annoy the piss out of me. As for your addition...
Oh, no, I totally agree with you. I had thought that the general consensus was that notion you put forward (EDIT: Clarification, the notion that was given by many that you brought up in the above post) was exceedingly flawed, and we were all in agreement that it was stupid? If not... no, that's wrong. She could have handled it better in hindsight, probably, but it's hard to tell because we didn't see what happened off camera, what Capcom did when (even though it was obviously too late), and what kind of abuse she suffered verbally when we couldn't hear, but no one can blame her for trying to just laugh it off in the moment... and any who are saying otherwise are moronic.
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I Win Swordfightsall the traits of greatnessstarlight at my feetRegistered Userregular
oh, no, i was just taking something you said out of context
And Aris is the guy who did defend women and even transexuals from sexual harassment.
Butters it isn't exactly fair to say that because you can handle pressure in your personal life, that others should be able to handle pressure the same way while confined in a small area with no outside contact for over 10 hours a day for several days while competing for $25k. Those are completely different contexts.
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Garret Dorigan"Why can't I be DLC for UMvC3?"Registered Userregular
I don't think you know what the term "out of context" means.
Same? :P I think you're missing his point, which I don't blame as it is one that one isn't going to come to mind of normal people unless they're actively thinking about it.
B:L's entire argument here is about the fact that Aris's argument in that context had no thought to the content of it. A mistake, to be sure, but Aris at that point is arguing that something as such shouldn't be restricted. Aris doesn't talk on the point of whether or not if that should be frowned upon or not, or even if is acceptable behavior (which one can gather his feelings on, but his argument comes from a point of generality), just that the FGC has had an air of freedom, and to lose that is to impinge on the whole of the FGC.
B:L continues that he doesn't agree with the argument, per-say, but he understands the position Aris was making with the argument.
Whether or not one agrees with B:L's interpretation of Aris's argument is up to you, but it is a sound interpretation and one cannot fault B:L for having it.
Posts
As is always my recommendation with controversial topics, play Devil's Advocate with yourself. If you look at what he is actually (yet poorly) trying to put forth, you might possibly see his point of view.
Is is still wrong? Shit yeah! But then this situation goes back to what B:L, Knob and I were talking about earlier in the thread. Teaching is much preferable to crucifying.
I'm absolutely disgusted by the death threats.
I find them funny, in a fatalist "jesus-christ-are-you-serious" kind of way. The hypocrisy of it is brain shattering.
That tweet is irrelevant and he didn't truly apologize for his statements only that his statements made people upset. I'm not even talking about his confrontation with Miranda.
I have no direct relationship to him and thus am not in a position to teach anything. Also, criticism is not crucifixion and I haven't threatened anyone's life either.
Why are people assuming that was the only apology he made? Sp00ky mentioned that he apologized a million times to Miranda, and he apologized on stream as well, and Miranda said that the situation was handled and over with. This apology was apologizing for how he worded his arguments but he wasn't arguing for a harassment filled atmosphere but rather an uncensored atmosphere, which is an understandable viewpoint that was worded terribly.
Are these the people who won't be happy unless he apologizes directly to them for having a different opinion?
I agree with you on both points. The second sentence was meant as a generality, and callback to the sentiment that we were putting forth earlier. I'm not attacking you Butters, just asking that you look at his point of view.
Aris is an idiot, I'm not arguing. But he has (in his mind) a well meaning behind his argument in the Jared conversation, and really does not see that such a thing is wrong on the level of which he speaks, due to "cultural" tendencies. We (as in the general "we"), as those that are seeing the picture in a bigger view, know that this is a thing that should not be a thing.
My argument is that we (again, general) should not deride the man, but the action, and tell him (and others that hold the same) how he is being an idiot... so that hopefully he won't be further. As such (and trust me, I know this is idealistic) criticism of the man is a wasted effort, and does nothing but give fuel to those that would do things much more severe.
Basically, as I said I wasn't attacking you, just using your words to intone a point. Forgive me if it seemed as otherwise, it wasn't my intent.
Butters is arguing that Aris is an idiot (which as I've touched on, there are ways in that he is) and that the views that he holds about sexual harassment and general harassment as a keystone of the FGC are idiotic. That, being a grown ass man, he should know that this is wrong, and apologize for saying it.
Well, ideally he should be expressing something that shows an actual change in understanding of the problem with the comments he made to Miranda and afterward, rather than just apologizing in shame. He doesn't have to, though. He doesn't have to be a part of the conversation at all. It's not really relevant to Butters criticizing his positions in our conversation here. The best possible outcome for this discussion is probably that other folks here who might also not understand some facets of the issues will engage the topic, and people will learn things. Then the people that understand certain things will go discuss them with other people in a related discussion elsewhere or in the future.
What he wants and argues for is a community that's casual and loose, rather than one that's overly worried about being politically correct all the time. Something similar to a circle of friends. While I don't believe in that opinion, as things need to be kept clean as the community grows, I can understand where he's coming from and it's merely an alternative opinion.
Pretty much. In the statement he issued there was no real apology for the words or the sentiment. He merely apologized that people were offended by what he said. He acknowledges poor choice of words but then deflects responsibility by claiming he was taken out of context. The article on Giant bomb displayed reprehensible statements that were absolutely in context.
I'll be Marveling in a little bit.
I may have lost what I was saying there at the end, but you get the gist.
kay, I'll hop on and warm up in training
It actually is out of context. The context is an interview where Jared (backstabbing mothergooser) was baiting Aris into an argument by claiming that the SC2 scene was superior by keeping it clean (despite the whole sexual assault incident), and Aris was on his 70th hour of coaching a losing team and constantly being filmed in a high-pressure reality show situation where everyone involved in the show (even the streamers) stated that everyone was under an immense amount of pressure.
(parenthesis comments were added by me)
If they didn't mention that in their article, then yes they did not quite capture the context of why he worded his argument terribly. That's what the apology is for.
And you answer in the affirmative...that's not a wrongly attributed sentiment. That's just a terrible opinion.
there is no reason for you to continue posting about it
I know you want to act as mediator and have everyone resolve things together, but I think it's risky to gloss over some issues too quickly, eg., the sentiment that Miranda didn't say stop enough times or the right way to have a bearing on problematic behavior from others.
That conversation instead became, "well, he did stop, after a couple of days, but then said those other things to Jared, but that was poorly phrased and not what he actually meant, so he went on stream with Haunts and attacked people, but he's sorry if he offended anyone, except he still thinks it's important for people to be able to act that way..." And they still can! There's no formal censorship. Instead there's the public's ability to respond, to criticize, and to attempt to correct.
But it's not going to correct very well if the next time some of this shit happens, half the discussion again derails into, "Did she roll her eyes a lot when she said no? How many times does she have to laugh before my behavior doesn't count as my fault anymore?" etc.
sorry I was a little distracted, same as forum name
Actually that statement is out of context too. I was actually at that tournament, sitting next to Robert Khoo, and when the Phoenix player was getting beasted on the crowd was yelling "OOOOooooOOOO" and "AAAAaaaaAAAA", and the whole "rape that bitch" was background noise that didn't even register, as it was a highly energetic loud situation where the crowd was whipped into a frenzy.
Is shouting that wrong? Of course! But I can also understand the viewpoint that policing against that is going to be tough, and will definitely affect the community. You have to consider the socioeconomic backgrounds of those who enter competitive tournaments, either middle or lower class, from working-class to ghetto neighborhoods. You are bound to get someone entering or spectating who doesn't understand classiness, and it would be extremely tough to police that while everyone is shouting at the same time in a huge crowd of audience, without turning it into a police state type of situation.
I disagree with that and I believe we can engender a clean competitive community without resorting to racial profiling or anything extreme like that. He doesn't support harassment at all, his arguments has always been about the atmosphere of the scene, and he was mainly worried that it would become an overly restrictive one.
Yeah, it's like expecting XBL or PSN comments to keep it clean. It's something I want, but it'll be definitely tough to enforce.
Eh... it isn't that I actually want to play mediator, just that I know I'm good at it, and grognard levels of arguments annoy the piss out of me. As for your addition...
Oh, no, I totally agree with you. I had thought that the general consensus was that notion you put forward (EDIT: Clarification, the notion that was given by many that you brought up in the above post) was exceedingly flawed, and we were all in agreement that it was stupid? If not... no, that's wrong. She could have handled it better in hindsight, probably, but it's hard to tell because we didn't see what happened off camera, what Capcom did when (even though it was obviously too late), and what kind of abuse she suffered verbally when we couldn't hear, but no one can blame her for trying to just laugh it off in the moment... and any who are saying otherwise are moronic.
because i post to make myself giggle
For example, the Jared who was condemning the "rape that bitch" statement?
Same guy as DDRSlip in these logs:
(Warning: NSFW language in text!)
http://sl1p2u.tripod.com/id66.htm
And Aris is the guy who did defend women and even transexuals from sexual harassment.
Butters it isn't exactly fair to say that because you can handle pressure in your personal life, that others should be able to handle pressure the same way while confined in a small area with no outside contact for over 10 hours a day for several days while competing for $25k. Those are completely different contexts.
Same? :P I think you're missing his point, which I don't blame as it is one that one isn't going to come to mind of normal people unless they're actively thinking about it.
B:L's entire argument here is about the fact that Aris's argument in that context had no thought to the content of it. A mistake, to be sure, but Aris at that point is arguing that something as such shouldn't be restricted. Aris doesn't talk on the point of whether or not if that should be frowned upon or not, or even if is acceptable behavior (which one can gather his feelings on, but his argument comes from a point of generality), just that the FGC has had an air of freedom, and to lose that is to impinge on the whole of the FGC.
B:L continues that he doesn't agree with the argument, per-say, but he understands the position Aris was making with the argument.
Whether or not one agrees with B:L's interpretation of Aris's argument is up to you, but it is a sound interpretation and one cannot fault B:L for having it.
Depending on what time you would do such...
FUCK.
YES.