Okay. Just because you don't like the show (and if not, why the fuck are you on the internet wasting your precious time posting about it?), it still is not okay to spoil major plot events. I don't care if you don't understand why someone doesn't hate the show as much as you do. Seriously. Be cool. Don't spoil it.
I actually liked several parts of this episode a lot.
Carl's actions actually made sense to me. You might not have been paying attention to his character for the duration of the series, but the entirety of his actions have involved him growing up fast in ways that terrified Rick. He's learning about the world in a completely fucked up way, and throwing rocks at a zombie is completely in-character with a kid trying to push past the artificial, unrealistic cocoon that his parents are trying to weave around him.
People suggesting that they could have cut out Dale's conversations... no. Just no. The entire point was to send Dale off in a manner befitting his character. He represented humanity and civility. The fact that he swayed Andrea at the end was important. His conversation with Shane was actually kinda great; Shane admitted that Dale had guts and wouldn't go rogue on Randall's execution if the group decided against it (which... well, it's not a guarantee that he wouldn't [or won't]).
Glenn and Herschell's scene was totally awesome. Not only did Herschell expunge the stain of his Old Guy Racism, but he gave Glenn an heirloom pocket watch, along with his blessing. Pocket watches are neat.
I didn't like how Dale's death was handled. The swamp zombie's ninja skills were a little implausible, especially how incompetant most zombies are presented as being.
T-Dog is just getting embarassing. One line. One, about gravedigging no less, and he's interrupted to boot. I hope the writers realize this and have something awesome for him to do soon.
The slower pace of this episode actually befits its place in the season. There was a huge action sequence last week, and there are only two episodes left in the season. If they were to take a breath and have a more character-based episode, now was the time (as opposed to the first half of the season, which were practicallly hyperventilating with the number of breaths they took between action sequences).
Anyway, a little less hyperbole on this forum might be nice.
I'm only commenting on the first part of your post because I haven't seen the episode yet. That being said, I agree. Why the fuck do people feel the need to spoil some of this shit? I've seen three posts where people have openly said what happened.
What fucking episode did all you neck-beards watch last night?
I watched one where an issue that's been floating around for 3 weeks wasn't resolved.
The issue isn't the same, and has evolved the past few episodes.
He shows up because Rick couldn't leave him to be eaten by Zombies. They decide that they should help him recover, then drop him off far away from the farm. when they drop him off, they learn he knows a member of their group and likely where they are at. They bring him back, because Rick wants to think about it before just straight up killing the kid. He sits on it for a night, and decides it will be the best to just off him. A guy disagrees and convinces him to hold off till he can make sure everyone understands the gravity of the decision and they then talk about it. Then the kid reminds his father of what he is really doing, and Rick sees what it is turning his son into.
This happened over the course of three episodes(?). While all that was happening, we get a confrontation between Rick and Shane, Lori and Andrea, Herschel with himself, Glen with love vs respect or something I dunno, and other stuff I can't remember off the top of my head.
If you really think nothing happened that episode, then just stop watching because you are blind to what the show is really about.
I have come to a realization, maybe I am seeing a different show than many of the detractors. Because I don't have AMC where I live, I watch this streamed, no commercial breaks. I find this anything but boring and I can watch episodes back to back.
For some of the detractors, I gotta wonder if you were ever going to like this show, for all its divergences, its actually following the comic material pretty closely in tone - the characters in the comic spend a lot of time "spinning wheels in the mud" as you put it as well, sometimes literally. There are no characters that are smart all the time, heck, Dale's
death in the comic is even more gruesome and heart wrenching in the comic with the cannibals and how Rick's group responds to it by... yeah.
Its like a whole bunches of pieces that make up the characters experiences and reactions in the comics are on fast forward in the show, where the comic takes a few entire volumes to arc through. The show's writing is very plainly being informed on what the characters are like by the character arcs from the comics.
All the worst things you can say about the tv show characters are just as true of the comic book characters and it only gets "worse" the deeper down the zombie infested rabbit hole we go. Are you really ready for zombie tv? Were you ever going to be? I don't think this show suffers from terrible writing, if anything I think it should be applauded for not pulling punches but you really are proving a that good zombie fiction is unpalatable for the masses, if this forum sampling is anything to go by. Its like this thread wants Zombieland or Shaun of the Dead, which is still good, but got Diary of the Dead or The Road instead, which is also good but a whole lot more depressing.
Now the thread seems to be in some sort of hate tail spin, just looking for confirmation of its own bias, snake eating its own tail shit. Some of you claim to be done with the show, I wonder if I should be done with this thread, I'm not finding the over arcing discussion of characters and events I hoped for because people can't look past character flaws and instead see horribad writing in its place.
to see Dale bite it. All his morality speaches were getting old. Especially the "If we do this then the world we knew is gone forever!" bullshit. You live in a post-apocolyptic world infested with the walking flesh eating dead. Your world is already gone, shape up for the new one or die horribly. Dale may have been the moral compass of the group, yet that moral compass was an albetross in the new reality they are faced with. He would have been long dead without the very people he hated, the Shanes and the Daryls, whose ruthlessness allowed him to keep his idealistic bullshit. He didn't want to live in their world, and now he won't.
So I cheered at that part. But the constant inconsistancy of characters really is grating on me, making previously cool things pointless. Rick is stone cold when taking down Sofia, but in the last episode had to yeild the floor to Daryl when he lost his balls again. I really wisht he writers would get their shit together and have character progression stay progressed, instead of flip flopping the characters all over the place.
Remind me not to get stuck in a zombie apocalypse with you. :P
Dale didn't hate Daryl. They were friends! Why do you think Daryl called him "brother" at the end?
Rick is actually pretty consistant. He won't kill the living (unless in self defense).
Sophia was a zombie. Dale was not (yet). I guarantee you that he would have gunned Zombie Dale down in a second.
Rick is getting harder, that's his story arc, but he won't actually be where you're suggesting he was until Shane's no longer with the group.
to see Dale bite it. All his morality speaches were getting old. Especially the "If we do this then the world we knew is gone forever!" bullshit. You live in a post-apocolyptic world infested with the walking flesh eating dead. Your world is already gone, shape up for the new one or die horribly. Dale may have been the moral compass of the group, yet that moral compass was an albetross in the new reality they are faced with. He would have been long dead without the very people he hated, the Shanes and the Daryls, whose ruthlessness allowed him to keep his idealistic bullshit. He didn't want to live in their world, and now he won't.
So I cheered at that part. But the constant inconsistancy of characters really is grating on me, making previously cool things pointless. Rick is stone cold when taking down Sofia, but in the last episode had to yeild the floor to Daryl when he lost his balls again. I really wisht he writers would get their shit together and have character progression stay progressed, instead of flip flopping the characters all over the place.
Remind me not to get stuck in a zombie apocalypse with you. :P
Dale didn't hate Daryl. They were friends! Why do you think Daryl called him "brother" at the end?
Rick is actually pretty consistant. He won't kill the living (unless in self defense).
Sophia was a zombie. Dale was not (yet). I guarantee you that he would have gunned Zombie Dale down in a second.
Rick is getting harder, that's his story arc, but he won't actually be where you're suggesting he was until Shane's no longer with the group.
And what would Dale have said about Daryls torture? Probably another sermon. And Dale was dying in one of the slowest and most painful ways to go. It would have been mercy for Rick to kill him. He was actually begging for death, when Daryl aimed the gun towards his head Dale leaned into it. But Rick couldn't do it, couldn't end the suffering of a man who was already going to die. I can understand him not shooting Randall, executing someone is a big deal. But to be unable to kill horribly suffering mortally wounded begging for death Dale was just wimpiness on his part.
And you'd be fine if you were stuck in a zombie apocolypse with me. It's being stuck in a zombie apocolypse outside those I consider me and mine you have to worry about.
Before following any advice, opinions, or thoughts I may have expressed in the above post, be warned: I found Keven Costners "Waterworld" to be a very entertaining film.
Yeah she had a legitimate reason . Carl is just mentally handicapped.
Right. Because a kid exploring after getting yelled at by an adult is mentally handicapped.
Kids also never play with guns.
Kids also never try to act grown up.
Man. This show is so stupid and unrealistic.
None that I ever knew. And yes the average child knows not to play with guns. They also dance around a hungry dead cannibal for fun for no reason.
This probably isn't your idea of an average child. This is a child who already had a scene where he was playing with weapons. And when Shane yelled at him to stop, Lori yelled at Shane for yelling at Carl.
This is also a child who we've seen have at least 1 shooting lesson already. So he's arguably not "playing" with the gun at all.
Carl playing with a zombie who he has seen first hand eat people, alone, not long after he was almost killed, is beyond uncharacteristically stupid.
Curious - which episode was this in?
IIRC - when Carl and Sophia find a zombie near the Atlanta camp, it doesn't eat anyone. They run and get help and the other survivors kill the zombie. When zombies attack the Atlanta camp, Carl doesn't witness the attacks on Ed, Amy, or Jim. And no one sees Sophia get bitten/infected, Carl just sees her run off into the woods and disappear. And when Beth (coma girl) is attacked after the barn scene, she isn't bitten.
So exactly when did Carl witness a zombie eating someone?
He does, OTOH, see an entire barn-ful of zombies get shot to shit by people with guns. And he has a gun with him. All the people he knows who've been attacked (Ed, Amy, Jim, Sophia, Beth) up to that point were unarmed. I'm assuming he doesn't know about Otis, and
Yeah, I am sure Carl fully intended to shoot that zombie, it was actually an ideal situation for him as the character so obviously wants to grow up and face more responsibility than his parents are allowing him to and not only that he has recognized on several occasions already his mom is straight up wrong.
And you'd be fine if you were stuck in a zombie apocolypse with me. It's being stuck in a zombie apocolypse outside those I consider me and mine you have to worry about.
And what happens when "you and yours" get shot in the chest and don't have a doctor in the group, and need someone else's help?
Without a little bit of compassion from other people for strangers, Shane and Daryl would already be dead. Since it seems to be common wisdom that anyone on their own is practically dead already.
Remember, the Atlanta camp didn't have to take in Shane, or Daryl. They could have just left Shane or Daryl to go die on their own. There always needs to be a little bit of looking out for the other guy to hold any group together through a tough situation. If it really was every man for himself, they'd all be dead already.
I don't see any guidelines for spoiler tags in the OP. Assume it's anything from the past weeks show in spoilers and anything from the comics? It would be great if people would label what they're spoilering more often, I won't go into a spoiler tag unless I'm fairly certain it doesn't contain comic info.
I would download a car.
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
I don't see any guidelines for spoiler tags in the OP. Assume it's anything from the past weeks show in spoilers and anything from the comics?
Right now there are open spoilers on the current (just aired) ep, which rightfully pissed some people off.
Re Carl; (Spoilers from the comic and upcoming ep speculation!)
I'm guessing him pushing towards the adult side of things is a precursor to him killing Shane. We're seeing him trying to 'man up' as Lori put it, and failing. But then when it really needs to happen, he'll be able to kill Shane, probably saving Rick in the process. I do wonder if that's actually gonna happen though; a kid killing someone on TV?
I thought this episode was alright for the most part until the last 5 minutes or so. What the fuck.
So, not only is it a ninja zombie, it's also super strong. And then there's Carl showing up just as Rick's about to kill Randall. That was way too convenient and could've been handled much better. Maybe have him watching in secret and then accidentally make a noise. Something like that.
... you DO understand that is an actor in zombie makeup and not a real zombie, right?
on that note re:zombie effects
when the zombie was stuck in the mud last night and just lurching around, he looked like sci-fi original movie quality cg. I don't know why but something just seemed really odd there.
All the worst things you can say about the tv show characters are just as true of the comic book characters and it only gets "worse" the deeper down the zombie infested rabbit hole we go. Are you really ready for zombie tv? Were you ever going to be? I don't think this show suffers from terrible writing, if anything I think it should be applauded for not pulling punches but you really are proving a that good zombie fiction is unpalatable for the masses, if this forum sampling is anything to go by. Its like this thread wants Zombieland or Shaun of the Dead, which is still good, but got Diary of the Dead or The Road instead, which is also good but a whole lot more depressing.
Now the thread seems to be in some sort of hate tail spin, just looking for confirmation of its own bias, snake eating its own tail shit. Some of you claim to be done with the show, I wonder if I should be done with this thread, I'm not finding the over arcing discussion of characters and events I hoped for because people can't look past character flaws and instead see horribad writing in its place.
>.<
I dunno about other people, but personally I don't want Zombieland or Shaun of the Dead. I want The Road, and this show didn't deliver it at all.
Really, all I wanted was a TV version of the comic, but that didn't happen.
Personally, I want it more depressing than it is now. I wanted true zombie TV, and the show pulls way too many punches and doesn't kill enough characters that have it coming(as a direct result of stupid actions, for example), and had more or less granted the group plot armor for the season, removing whatever tension there might have been. Also, they chose to use the farm for pretty much all of the second season, which is one of the most boring/least interesting locations available to them. Granted, Hershel and some of the other characters have grown on me over time, but I'd still have rather seen some other kind of progress and more conflict that had to be manufactured to come up with something vaguely interesting due to lack of conflict, or interesting environments.
I consider the comic superior, but that's not saying I don't want to find out what happens next here. Don't get me wrong, I don't hate the show, and I'm interested to see where they'll take the plot. It's just that for this season, it's felt like they've spent at least three times the amount of time necessary to cover the farm and whatever plots surround it. I can't tell from memory what's happened in a large part of the episodes at all. It's just felt like they could've used the time and money to make something more interesting, considering the characters available and the existing storyline for ideas.
PS. The over-arcing discussions of characters can only be done for the ones that are written consistently. As discussed in the thread, some characters seem to change as needed to accomplish some plot detail, and it's difficult to ponder on character progression when said character is prone to doing a 180 every time a writer feels it's needed to accomplish something tangentially related. Character flaws should at least be consistent, and inconsistent character writing makes it difficult for people to relate at all.
PPS. I'm still going to continue watching in the hope that they'll get off the farm, things go to shit, and people start dying.
I enjoyed last nights episode much more than previous episodes this season. Namely episode 1-5 of this season(back in the fall).
Full episode spoilers contained within
The episode starts with Daryl beating information out of Randall. He finds out there are a lot of people in the group he was with, they are nomadic, and the men are sadistic.
Rick decides he should be killed. Dale disagrees and begs him to hold off on it till he talks to everyone and they have a meeting. Rick agrees.
Then we get full day with Dale going around trying to convince people, with other characters also interacting. All conversations were pretty good. Dale's talk with Andrea helps keep her from turning into fem-shane.
In the mean-time the kid finds a gun in Daryl's bags, and goes of into the woods. Likely thinking he can shoot it without anyone hearing it, because he is a little kid. Stumbles into a zombie and freaks out, until he sees it is stuck and can't move. He tests it out with a couple rocks, then thinks "I wonder what it's like to kill one" and so gets into position. Naturally he fucks this up and runs home. Doesn't tell anyone because he is a little kid that was doing something he wasn't supposed to be doing. Multiple things he wasn't supposed to be doing.
They have the meeting. Most everyone begrudgingly decides the kid should be executed. Dale gets pissed off, scolds everyone and instills an idea within them that they are turning into the very group they are trying to hide from. Goes for a walk alone to clear his head and let off some steam. Walks into a Zombie Trap.
While that is happening Rick, Shane and Daryl go to execute the prisoner. Just as rick is about to do it, his kid shows up and tells him to pull the trigger like a psychopath. Rick decides not to do it because of this. Then they hear Dale getting killed by a zombie.
The only thing I didn't like was how Rick went back to Lori like a little bitch. Trying to explain to her why he couldn't do it right then, like he needs her approval or something. He's supposed to be the leader of the group, he should fucking have his balls drop already and just straight up tell her "I'm not executing a guy in front of my son. It'll have to happen later. And you need to fucking keep control of him when I'm doing some important shit, god damnit. Be a Mother for 2 fucking hours."
It was a good episode, with good pacing, with decent dialogue. What fucking episode did all you neck-beards watch last night?
You dont get to insult people here. Get the fuck out.
... you DO understand that is an actor in zombie makeup and not a real zombie, right?
It's almost as if this isn't reality and shows have these things called special effects or something. I mean, I don't know about you, but whenever people throw things in other shows and movies, sometimes they make it look like they're not throwing things like they're being extra careful not to hurt the extra. Mind blowing, I know.
I imagine the real reason is, hey, he's a kid actor. He probably was in drama camp and never played little league.
Corpekata on
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SteevLWhat can I do for you?Registered Userregular
anyone notice Merle's old motorcycle has SS lightning bolts on it
You can actually first see that sometime around the second half of season 1 when they left the Atlanta camp. It threw me off that Daryl was riding a bike with SS on it until I realized it belonged to his brother.
Carl playing with a zombie who he has seen first hand eat people, alone, not long after he was almost killed, is beyond uncharacteristically stupid.
Curious - which episode was this in?
IIRC - when Carl and Sophia find a zombie near the Atlanta camp, it doesn't eat anyone. They run and get help and the other survivors kill the zombie. When zombies attack the Atlanta camp, Carl doesn't witness the attacks on Ed, Amy, or Jim. And no one sees Sophia get bitten/infected, Carl just sees her run off into the woods and disappear. And when Beth (coma girl) is attacked after the barn scene, she isn't bitten.
So exactly when did Carl witness a zombie eating someone?
He does, OTOH, see an entire barn-ful of zombies get shot to shit by people with guns. And he has a gun with him. All the people he knows who've been attacked (Ed, Amy, Jim, Sophia, Beth) up to that point were unarmed. I'm assuming he doesn't know about Otis, and
the Dale attack
hadn't happened yet.
I don't remember an episode where he explicitly sees it, but I just figured he has by now. Even if he hasn't the point still stands. It doesn't make sense.
I wasn't too sure what to expect from TWD when I first heard it was being made into a series on AMC; I knew it was a comic about a zombie apocalypse and thought that might be fun but the specifics were pretty much lost on me.
When I saw it a while later I was fascinated by the quality of the production; booking off that intersection was no small feat and the impetus of the main characters was fascinating. further, there was always questions about how they would react when secrets were revealed. Above and beyond that, there was always a clear idea of where the characters were going and why.
This season is a totally different case, and has sadly suffered for it.
The Zombieland thing is just a copout apologists throw out to deflect criticism. Nobody was expecting Zombieland. In fact, I'd wager most people were expecting something far darker in tone than the show has been. It sure as shit isn't anywhere near the Road. Diary of the Dead might be more apt I guess, though I found that film more or less instantly forgettable so I don't have a good baseline for that. It's pretty much in the realm of every zombie movie ever that wasn't campy or comedic, and not really the good ones. Like Night of the Living Dead remake area.
Happens every time this show is maligned. You don't think there are compelling characters? YOU JUST WANT ZOMBIE GUTS! Think people are doing stupid things that are out of character? WELL ARENT YOU MISTER FANCYPANTS SURVIVALIST.
I imagine the real reason is, hey, he's a kid actor. He probably was in drama camp and never played little league.
No, it's the character. His parents never signed him up for little league. Lori certainly wasn't going to make the decision, and Rick just stood there with the waiver form in his hand, staring at it because he couldn't decide whether to sign it or tell Carl to take up gymnastics. Meanwhile, Carl was in the backyard poking a beehive with a stick because nobody was paying attention to him.
Shane eventually came over and used a can of hairspray and a lighter to take care of the beehive.
Carl playing with a zombie who he has seen first hand eat people, alone, not long after he was almost killed, is beyond uncharacteristically stupid. A kid that young who had recently been through a painful near-death experience simply out of wandering where he shouldn't (even if his Dad didn't stop him) would be too petrified to do the same thing again without a parent. Not only that, but where was Lori when he wandered off? And how in the fuck did Dale not hear the moaning shuffling zombie from yards away in the dead of night? None of it makes sense.
Carl was facing down his fears. He, like any kid, wants to be an adult more than anything. He wants to be like his dad, but he's fucking scared shitless of zombies.
Proverbially, it's just like finding a dead body (only this one isn't quite dead) in the woods and poking it with a stick. Finding a zombie stuck in the mud is a perfect way to stare fear right in the face and get your first chance at killing one yourself to prove you're grown up. Yeah, getting that close to it was stupid, but he's just a kid who lacks the life experience to realize the danger he was truly in.
I honestly don't see how Carl is being any more foolish than your average 12 year old. Seriously, go and spend some time with a 12 year old and see how stupid they are. I don't know about you guys, but I didn't think of death or dismemberment when I was that old and did lots of stupid shit that could have gotten me killed. Not only that, but I thought I was so much smarter than I actually was, which got me into a lot of trouble as well. It only stands out in this show because he's in constant mortal danger... but he's TWELVE, grew up in a rural suburban area and was pampered his whole life. He just doesn't get it yet.
As far as Dale goes, he's 64 fucking years old. This may shock you to hear, but people's senses degrade as you age.
Maybe he didn't hear it because he's old and getting hard of hearing? Maybe he didn't hear it because it wasn't moaning at all? Logic!
I simply don't understand some people in this thread. Posters go on and on about how stupid people are in the show and how shitty the writing is but continue to watch it week after week? Seriously, I wouldn't waste my time watching a show I hate. Beyond that, you armchair survivalists who would never make any mistakes ever should really just stop watching the show altogether. Having read the comics, I guarantee this show is going to frustrate you more and more as it goes on. I get it that this is the internet, people are free to post their opinions... but the constant shitting all over this thread makes it pretty difficult to have a productive discussion about it.
I've been warning people of this from the start, but it seems many don't want to take heed. This isn't a show about zombies. It's a show about people (first) surviving the zombie (second) apocalypse and how that would change you. Zombies are the setting. If you're expecting a show about killing zombies then you're going to be bored. It's pretty simple.
I think this episode was great.
Dale went to each and every person in the group and they all wanted to kill that boy. We needed that to see how much everyone has changed. Before the apocalypse I bet the majority of those people were opposed to the death penalty. Dale, unlike the others, isn't suited for this new world. He can't adapt and we needed to see his frustration rise until we got to the end discussion where he called out Rick for being a massive hypocrite for saving that boy in the first place. Now the group doesn't have a moral compass to oppose the hard decisions, what will happen? Will someone step up to take Dales place or will the group become a hardened bunch of killers? Who knows! But it'll be interesting to find out.
That last scene with Dale in pain, staring down the barrel of the revolver was downright haunting. My hats off to the actor for doing such an awesome job in that scene.
I imagine the real reason is, hey, he's a kid actor. He probably was in drama camp and never played little league.
No, it's the character. His parents never signed him up for little league. Lori certainly wasn't going to make the decision, and Rick just stood there with the waiver form in his hand, staring at it because he couldn't decide whether to sign it or tell Carl to take up gymnastics. Meanwhile, Carl was in the backyard poking a beehive with a stick because nobody was paying attention to him.
Shane eventually came over and used a can of hairspray and a lighter to take care of the beehive.
I give this post two rotting thumbs up.
Before following any advice, opinions, or thoughts I may have expressed in the above post, be warned: I found Keven Costners "Waterworld" to be a very entertaining film.
Regarding Carl's actions, it seemed pretty clear to me that he went out there to shoot the zombie. Him wanting to be treated like an adult is a long-running theme now, and so he set out to do that thing all the adults do. He was just throwing rocks/wandering around it as a way to work himself up to it.
As for the ninja-zombie sneaking up, I'd need to watch it again, but the way I visually read it, it went unnoticed because the half-dead cow was making all that noise.
I imagine the real reason is, hey, he's a kid actor. He probably was in drama camp and never played little league.
No, it's the character. His parents never signed him up for little league. Lori certainly wasn't going to make the decision, and Rick just stood there with the waiver form in his hand, staring at it because he couldn't decide whether to sign it or tell Carl to take up gymnastics. Meanwhile, Carl was in the backyard poking a beehive with a stick because nobody was paying attention to him.
Shane eventually came over and used a can of hairspray and a lighter to take care of the beehive.
Wow.
Shane's part made this amazing, honestly.
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
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I'm only commenting on the first part of your post because I haven't seen the episode yet. That being said, I agree. Why the fuck do people feel the need to spoil some of this shit? I've seen three posts where people have openly said what happened.
Stop being dick-bags people. Jesus.
The issue isn't the same, and has evolved the past few episodes.
He shows up because Rick couldn't leave him to be eaten by Zombies. They decide that they should help him recover, then drop him off far away from the farm. when they drop him off, they learn he knows a member of their group and likely where they are at. They bring him back, because Rick wants to think about it before just straight up killing the kid. He sits on it for a night, and decides it will be the best to just off him. A guy disagrees and convinces him to hold off till he can make sure everyone understands the gravity of the decision and they then talk about it. Then the kid reminds his father of what he is really doing, and Rick sees what it is turning his son into.
This happened over the course of three episodes(?). While all that was happening, we get a confrontation between Rick and Shane, Lori and Andrea, Herschel with himself, Glen with love vs respect or something I dunno, and other stuff I can't remember off the top of my head.
If you really think nothing happened that episode, then just stop watching because you are blind to what the show is really about.
For some of the detractors, I gotta wonder if you were ever going to like this show, for all its divergences, its actually following the comic material pretty closely in tone - the characters in the comic spend a lot of time "spinning wheels in the mud" as you put it as well, sometimes literally. There are no characters that are smart all the time, heck, Dale's
All the worst things you can say about the tv show characters are just as true of the comic book characters and it only gets "worse" the deeper down the zombie infested rabbit hole we go. Are you really ready for zombie tv? Were you ever going to be? I don't think this show suffers from terrible writing, if anything I think it should be applauded for not pulling punches but you really are proving a that good zombie fiction is unpalatable for the masses, if this forum sampling is anything to go by. Its like this thread wants Zombieland or Shaun of the Dead, which is still good, but got Diary of the Dead or The Road instead, which is also good but a whole lot more depressing.
Now the thread seems to be in some sort of hate tail spin, just looking for confirmation of its own bias, snake eating its own tail shit. Some of you claim to be done with the show, I wonder if I should be done with this thread, I'm not finding the over arcing discussion of characters and events I hoped for because people can't look past character flaws and instead see horribad writing in its place.
>.<
Remind me not to get stuck in a zombie apocalypse with you. :P
Rick is actually pretty consistant. He won't kill the living (unless in self defense).
And you'd be fine if you were stuck in a zombie apocolypse with me. It's being stuck in a zombie apocolypse outside those I consider me and mine you have to worry about.
This probably isn't your idea of an average child. This is a child who already had a scene where he was playing with weapons. And when Shane yelled at him to stop, Lori yelled at Shane for yelling at Carl.
This is also a child who we've seen have at least 1 shooting lesson already. So he's arguably not "playing" with the gun at all.
Curious - which episode was this in?
IIRC - when Carl and Sophia find a zombie near the Atlanta camp, it doesn't eat anyone. They run and get help and the other survivors kill the zombie. When zombies attack the Atlanta camp, Carl doesn't witness the attacks on Ed, Amy, or Jim. And no one sees Sophia get bitten/infected, Carl just sees her run off into the woods and disappear. And when Beth (coma girl) is attacked after the barn scene, she isn't bitten.
So exactly when did Carl witness a zombie eating someone?
He does, OTOH, see an entire barn-ful of zombies get shot to shit by people with guns. And he has a gun with him. All the people he knows who've been attacked (Ed, Amy, Jim, Sophia, Beth) up to that point were unarmed. I'm assuming he doesn't know about Otis, and
And what happens when "you and yours" get shot in the chest and don't have a doctor in the group, and need someone else's help?
Without a little bit of compassion from other people for strangers, Shane and Daryl would already be dead. Since it seems to be common wisdom that anyone on their own is practically dead already.
Remember, the Atlanta camp didn't have to take in Shane, or Daryl. They could have just left Shane or Daryl to go die on their own. There always needs to be a little bit of looking out for the other guy to hold any group together through a tough situation. If it really was every man for himself, they'd all be dead already.
Right now there are open spoilers on the current (just aired) ep, which rightfully pissed some people off.
Re Carl; (Spoilers from the comic and upcoming ep speculation!)
anyhoo... I just can't let it go.
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anyone notice Merle's old motorcycle has SS lightning bolts on it
Yep. My initial thought was WTF!?! Then I remembered it was Merle's bike.
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Member of Randall's group. Calling it.
He'll probably be their damn leader
Seconded. And they'll be the reason they finally leave the goddamn farm.
... you DO understand that is an actor in zombie makeup and not a real zombie, right?
a prop rock would hardly be hard to make on their budget
on that note re:zombie effects
(which I did already)
I dunno about other people, but personally I don't want Zombieland or Shaun of the Dead. I want The Road, and this show didn't deliver it at all.
Really, all I wanted was a TV version of the comic, but that didn't happen.
Personally, I want it more depressing than it is now. I wanted true zombie TV, and the show pulls way too many punches and doesn't kill enough characters that have it coming(as a direct result of stupid actions, for example), and had more or less granted the group plot armor for the season, removing whatever tension there might have been. Also, they chose to use the farm for pretty much all of the second season, which is one of the most boring/least interesting locations available to them. Granted, Hershel and some of the other characters have grown on me over time, but I'd still have rather seen some other kind of progress and more conflict that had to be manufactured to come up with something vaguely interesting due to lack of conflict, or interesting environments.
I consider the comic superior, but that's not saying I don't want to find out what happens next here. Don't get me wrong, I don't hate the show, and I'm interested to see where they'll take the plot. It's just that for this season, it's felt like they've spent at least three times the amount of time necessary to cover the farm and whatever plots surround it. I can't tell from memory what's happened in a large part of the episodes at all. It's just felt like they could've used the time and money to make something more interesting, considering the characters available and the existing storyline for ideas.
PS. The over-arcing discussions of characters can only be done for the ones that are written consistently. As discussed in the thread, some characters seem to change as needed to accomplish some plot detail, and it's difficult to ponder on character progression when said character is prone to doing a 180 every time a writer feels it's needed to accomplish something tangentially related. Character flaws should at least be consistent, and inconsistent character writing makes it difficult for people to relate at all.
PPS. I'm still going to continue watching in the hope that they'll get off the farm, things go to shit, and people start dying.
You dont get to insult people here. Get the fuck out.
It's almost as if this isn't reality and shows have these things called special effects or something. I mean, I don't know about you, but whenever people throw things in other shows and movies, sometimes they make it look like they're not throwing things like they're being extra careful not to hurt the extra. Mind blowing, I know.
I imagine the real reason is, hey, he's a kid actor. He probably was in drama camp and never played little league.
You can actually first see that sometime around the second half of season 1 when they left the Atlanta camp. It threw me off that Daryl was riding a bike with SS on it until I realized it belonged to his brother.
I don't remember an episode where he explicitly sees it, but I just figured he has by now. Even if he hasn't the point still stands. It doesn't make sense.
I wasn't too sure what to expect from TWD when I first heard it was being made into a series on AMC; I knew it was a comic about a zombie apocalypse and thought that might be fun but the specifics were pretty much lost on me.
When I saw it a while later I was fascinated by the quality of the production; booking off that intersection was no small feat and the impetus of the main characters was fascinating. further, there was always questions about how they would react when secrets were revealed. Above and beyond that, there was always a clear idea of where the characters were going and why.
This season is a totally different case, and has sadly suffered for it.
Happens every time this show is maligned. You don't think there are compelling characters? YOU JUST WANT ZOMBIE GUTS! Think people are doing stupid things that are out of character? WELL ARENT YOU MISTER FANCYPANTS SURVIVALIST.
That said, I thought Carl's actions made perfect sense, given the context and character.
When T-Dog showed up at the meeting scene I literally thought, for a second, "where did the black guy come from?"
I enjoyed the episode, overall.
No, it's the character. His parents never signed him up for little league. Lori certainly wasn't going to make the decision, and Rick just stood there with the waiver form in his hand, staring at it because he couldn't decide whether to sign it or tell Carl to take up gymnastics. Meanwhile, Carl was in the backyard poking a beehive with a stick because nobody was paying attention to him.
Shane eventually came over and used a can of hairspray and a lighter to take care of the beehive.
Carl was facing down his fears. He, like any kid, wants to be an adult more than anything. He wants to be like his dad, but he's fucking scared shitless of zombies.
I honestly don't see how Carl is being any more foolish than your average 12 year old. Seriously, go and spend some time with a 12 year old and see how stupid they are. I don't know about you guys, but I didn't think of death or dismemberment when I was that old and did lots of stupid shit that could have gotten me killed. Not only that, but I thought I was so much smarter than I actually was, which got me into a lot of trouble as well. It only stands out in this show because he's in constant mortal danger... but he's TWELVE, grew up in a rural suburban area and was pampered his whole life. He just doesn't get it yet.
As far as Dale goes, he's 64 fucking years old. This may shock you to hear, but people's senses degrade as you age.
I simply don't understand some people in this thread. Posters go on and on about how stupid people are in the show and how shitty the writing is but continue to watch it week after week? Seriously, I wouldn't waste my time watching a show I hate. Beyond that, you armchair survivalists who would never make any mistakes ever should really just stop watching the show altogether. Having read the comics, I guarantee this show is going to frustrate you more and more as it goes on. I get it that this is the internet, people are free to post their opinions... but the constant shitting all over this thread makes it pretty difficult to have a productive discussion about it.
I've been warning people of this from the start, but it seems many don't want to take heed. This isn't a show about zombies. It's a show about people (first) surviving the zombie (second) apocalypse and how that would change you. Zombies are the setting. If you're expecting a show about killing zombies then you're going to be bored. It's pretty simple.
I think this episode was great.
That last scene with Dale in pain, staring down the barrel of the revolver was downright haunting. My hats off to the actor for doing such an awesome job in that scene.
I give this post two rotting thumbs up.
As for the ninja-zombie sneaking up, I'd need to watch it again, but the way I visually read it, it went unnoticed because the half-dead cow was making all that noise.
Wow.
Shane's part made this amazing, honestly.