If I hear another person say that 8th Edition sucks or it dumbed it down or whatever I'm gonna end it all.
Whoa where did that come from?
Grognards at the store who don't play Fantasy or 40k anymore complain about them all the time, also I listened to 11th Company Podcast and Stelek was on it and he was yelling about RANDOMNESS
Gonna end it all
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Gabriel_Pitt(effective against Russian warships)Registered Userregular
Aside from fixed charge ranges, which lead to me directly see units engage in staring contests because both players knew moving forward wouldn't get them far enough to get the charge, and that they'd then be charged by the other guy on his turn, didn't 7th also have FOC slots similar to 40K, which lead to such bizarreness as goblin heroes having the same weighted value as chaos lords, because they each took up one slot?
Also, if Stelek was on a podcast, you know whatever is being talked about is dumb and probably wrong.
WFB 6th and 7th were favorites amongst tournament players because of the predictability. There was a strong meme of "if you can map out how the game will probably go four turns in advance, you're a super skilled special snowflake of a player". As far as I can tell it's just a vocal minority and very few who actually played the game stopped.
If I hear another person say that 8th Edition sucks or it dumbed it down or whatever I'm gonna end it all.
Whoa where did that come from?
Grognards at the store who don't play Fantasy or 40k anymore complain about them all the time, also I listened to 11th Company Podcast and Stelek was on it and he was yelling about RANDOMNESS
Gonna end it all
Stelek is the biggest fucking idiot of all time, especially when it comes to fantasy. He doesn't know anything about it.
If I hear another person say that 8th Edition sucks or it dumbed it down or whatever I'm gonna end it all.
Whoa where did that come from?
Grognards at the store who don't play Fantasy or 40k anymore complain about them all the time, also I listened to 11th Company Podcast and Stelek was on it and he was yelling about RANDOMNESS
Gonna end it all
Stelek is the biggest fucking idiot of all time, especially when it comes to fantasy. He doesn't know anything about it.
Yeah, he's awful. If you ignore his strategy articles and stuff being bad, he's even bad to his readers - he actively takes their comments, posts them up as blog articles, rips it apart like TFG, then bans you from the site. Happened to a buddy. He stopped reading that blog after that.
All the comments about 8th edition are correct. This game is so much more fun and emulates the fluff so much better. 6th Edition 40k better take from it.
Also, this Step Up rule seems to be a gamechanger.
Apparently before, if you wiped out a front rank of models then they wouldn't get to hit back? That's a huge difference.
As someone who came back to 8th after playing 6th and early 7th, that is indeed huge. Step Up and fighting in 2 ranks makes combat so much more deadly. Still getting used to the fact that you can easily loose 20+ state troops in one round of combat to a regular block of elite infantry. Charge mechanics and flanking changes make a huge difference as well. Not saying it's bad, just very different.
Really, the fact that heavy cavalary aren't the end all be all bastards is awsome. I had a buddy that used to run one unit of 6 and would wreck a solid block of 30 orc boys every time. Mainly cause I never got to attack back cause he was alost guarnteed 5 kills on the charge.
Morskitter wrote "Spikes, choppas, tentacles, magic? Can't hold a candle to Sergeant Pimp here."
Really, the fact that heavy cavalary aren't the end all be all bastards is awsome. I had a buddy that used to run one unit of 6 and would wreck a solid block of 30 orc boys every time. Mainly cause I never got to attack back cause he was alost guarnteed 5 kills on the charge.
Yeah, you really need to use the mobility of cavalry now to get use of them. Some options should probably go down in points though. Empire Knightly Orders are really hard to make useful at 23 points each (26 Inner Circle).
So, instead of narrowing down the options for armies I want to do next, I've added VC to the list. The idea of raising hordes of zombies seems really fun, and the Mantic zombies actually look like they could be fun.
Is it just me though, or does the Battalion seem dumb?
Yeah, in terms of points/dollar some of them are clearly a better value (like the WoC one was awesome). But in terms of models that will be used in any army, some of them really miss the boat. I don't know why they'd include models that only fit in certain armies, i.e. the corpse cart. I'd rather the VC battalion have zombies and cavalry or something instead.
In any case, I played yesterday with my friend to get him started in Fantasy, using WoC vs. WoC. The first game we played was really basic: 4 Warriors, 4 Marauders, 2 Warhounds. Just to get him comfortable with the mechanics of moving, and the rolls for hitting/wounding/saving. We then moved to a 350 point list where we had a Sorcerer and I could teach him about ranks, proper combat res, steadfast, etc.
He's hooked, and now we're in the process of helping him pick an army
In our first game, I gave the Marauders javelins so he could see how shooting works.
He decided he wants the ability to have harassing units, and was really drawn to the Empire for their Pistoliers and war machines. I told him that they should be getting a new book next month, and that I too had looked into them because of how flexible their army can be. He's also drawn to the theme/lore/aesthetic of the undead, so VC and TK are in the running.
Luckily, these are all armies I'm also torn on starting, so it should be an interesting discussion.
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-Loki-Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
But in terms of models that will be used in any army, some of them really miss the boat. I don't know why they'd include models that only fit in certain armies, i.e. the corpse cart. I'd rather the VC battalion have zombies and cavalry or something instead.
Corpse Carts fit in bog standard VC armies that include a bit of everything. It's not until you start branching out and themeing your VC army that the Corpse Cart fails to fit in. It works well in a Von Carstein or Necrach themed army, which is a lot of slow moving skeleton and zombie hordes (particularly zombies, where you give it an Unholy Lodestone and get even more raised). Considering Von Carsteins are the default bloodline, it's a good support unit to throw in the battalion.
I'm a bit baffled why they completely dropped zombies, especially after buffing them so much, and also because they synergise well with the Corpse Cart. I'd have expected the Dire Wolves to be dropped and zombies in their place.
The lack of zombies is what really turns me off from the battalion, because I want approximately a million of them. The models are kinda blah, and apparently pretty old, so I figured maybe they were planning on redoing them...no real news on that front.
The Corpse Cart irks me because the things I feel like would really benefit from it most (...zombies) are gone, and people really aren't going to be running 2+ carts anyways, right? Like, if they'd included the Black Knight/Hexwraith dual kit then we'd be in for some real repeatability with the battalion.
As it stands, I'm disinclined to buy one, nevermind 2 or more. Maybe I'm spoiled by my WoC battalion, but looking at a second army the battalions are mostly underwhelming. It's blatantly clear that GW would prefer to put the fun/shiny models outside of the battalion, so that people starting up VC's would get lured into the battalion because of its "savings" and then go out and buy shit they actually want.
I don't have an army book on to get specific, but I started putting a Dwarf list together over lunch after reading up on what's changed in 8th (I last played, just a little bit, in 7th). Lots of changes for dwarfs, which mean some of my models are kind of pointless, but I think I can put together a pretty solid list with what I have up to about 1500 points (maybe more, as I can't remember point costs to even start estimating, so I might be good up to 2250).
I think I might have to iron out that list some and see if I can talk muggins into playing some refresher games with me.
So, I may have found a solution to my next army problem.
I love the undead models, but I'm not wild about the VC or TK rules. Any idea how hard it would be to put together an undead Empire army? I think fluffwise it's not unheard of, and something like this is what I would be going for (although these are Brets I think):
The lack of zombies is what really turns me off from the battalion, because I want approximately a million of them. The models are kinda blah, and apparently pretty old, so I figured maybe they were planning on redoing them...no real news on that front.
Last I heard, there have been models ready to be sliced up for a plastic mold for a while, following the Corpse Cart zombie appearance, and the fluff idea of Necromancers 'spending more of their time patching up zombies with wood than doing real magic'. Apparently half fallen apart, arms braced by wood nailed to the bone, stuff like that. But it was such a huge departure from the 'classic' zombie, they decided not to go with it. Or so the rumour went.
The GW zombies are pretty terrible up close, but when painted and on the table, they look fine.
When I look through that dude's thread, it's pretty clear that it can work. That's pretty good news, but on the other hand that dude fucking knocked it out of the park and now that I see it I don't think mine will ever look that good. Sort of puts a damper on it.
There's also going to be a ton of waste...as I'll probably be needing undead limbs/heads and Empire torsos, and it's not like I'll be able to use puffy Empire shirt arms and fleshy faces on skeleton torsos.
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JuliusCaptain of Serenityon my shipRegistered Userregular
When I look through that dude's thread, it's pretty clear that it can work. That's pretty good news, but on the other hand that dude fucking knocked it out of the park and now that I see it I don't think mine will ever look that good. Sort of puts a damper on it.
There's also going to be a ton of waste...as I'll probably be needing undead limbs/heads and Empire torsos, and it's not like I'll be able to use puffy Empire shirt arms and fleshy faces on skeleton torsos.
way back when you'd get about 30 skeletons/zombies out of a box of twenty empire guys and a box of skeletons/zombies. But that was for building a VC army with an Empire theme. (also, the old models worked easier together.)
skeletons/zombies are never wasted though. Who says you can't build a construct out of left over bones?
The more I think about it, the more I like certain ideas...like using zombies as state troops or militia and mixing in TK skellies for archers. War machines can easily be painted rusty and worn. Knights could be mixed up a bit with some of the VC range I think if I really wanted to use them. Characters will be a glorious kitbash opportunity.
Some things really scare me, namely with hands. Looking at the sprues for the Pistoliers/Outriders for example, I think I'll have a hard time dealing with hands:
There's a ton of guns there with no hands on them...are those meant to sit on a holster or in a saddle pack? Anyone built these guys?
Oh, you mean using undead empire dudes with the empire book. I'm not really into that, since they're disciplined and well trained and able to use guns and fine motor skills.
It's sort of moot for a month, because I want to see what new models/rules they come out with for Empire. Maybe I'll fall in love with something cool and just do Empire. Or say fuck it and play VC because dem models.
Now gigantic hordes and 7 ranks of troops are the order of the day, what are people doing for movement trays? Two trays touching for one unit? Hooking two trays together to make a monster horde tray?
Posts
Whoa where did that come from?
And True line of sight. Don't forget True line of sight.
Grognards at the store who don't play Fantasy or 40k anymore complain about them all the time, also I listened to 11th Company Podcast and Stelek was on it and he was yelling about RANDOMNESS
Gonna end it all
Also, if Stelek was on a podcast, you know whatever is being talked about is dumb and probably wrong.
Apparently before, if you wiped out a front rank of models then they wouldn't get to hit back? That's a huge difference.
Stelek is the biggest fucking idiot of all time, especially when it comes to fantasy. He doesn't know anything about it.
Yeah, he's awful. If you ignore his strategy articles and stuff being bad, he's even bad to his readers - he actively takes their comments, posts them up as blog articles, rips it apart like TFG, then bans you from the site. Happened to a buddy. He stopped reading that blog after that.
All the comments about 8th edition are correct. This game is so much more fun and emulates the fluff so much better. 6th Edition 40k better take from it.
As someone who came back to 8th after playing 6th and early 7th, that is indeed huge. Step Up and fighting in 2 ranks makes combat so much more deadly. Still getting used to the fact that you can easily loose 20+ state troops in one round of combat to a regular block of elite infantry. Charge mechanics and flanking changes make a huge difference as well. Not saying it's bad, just very different.
Yeah, you really need to use the mobility of cavalry now to get use of them. Some options should probably go down in points though. Empire Knightly Orders are really hard to make useful at 23 points each (26 Inner Circle).
Is it just me though, or does the Battalion seem dumb?
In any case, I played yesterday with my friend to get him started in Fantasy, using WoC vs. WoC. The first game we played was really basic: 4 Warriors, 4 Marauders, 2 Warhounds. Just to get him comfortable with the mechanics of moving, and the rolls for hitting/wounding/saving. We then moved to a 350 point list where we had a Sorcerer and I could teach him about ranks, proper combat res, steadfast, etc.
He's hooked, and now we're in the process of helping him pick an army
He decided he wants the ability to have harassing units, and was really drawn to the Empire for their Pistoliers and war machines. I told him that they should be getting a new book next month, and that I too had looked into them because of how flexible their army can be. He's also drawn to the theme/lore/aesthetic of the undead, so VC and TK are in the running.
Luckily, these are all armies I'm also torn on starting, so it should be an interesting discussion.
Corpse Carts fit in bog standard VC armies that include a bit of everything. It's not until you start branching out and themeing your VC army that the Corpse Cart fails to fit in. It works well in a Von Carstein or Necrach themed army, which is a lot of slow moving skeleton and zombie hordes (particularly zombies, where you give it an Unholy Lodestone and get even more raised). Considering Von Carsteins are the default bloodline, it's a good support unit to throw in the battalion.
I'm a bit baffled why they completely dropped zombies, especially after buffing them so much, and also because they synergise well with the Corpse Cart. I'd have expected the Dire Wolves to be dropped and zombies in their place.
The Corpse Cart irks me because the things I feel like would really benefit from it most (...zombies) are gone, and people really aren't going to be running 2+ carts anyways, right? Like, if they'd included the Black Knight/Hexwraith dual kit then we'd be in for some real repeatability with the battalion.
As it stands, I'm disinclined to buy one, nevermind 2 or more. Maybe I'm spoiled by my WoC battalion, but looking at a second army the battalions are mostly underwhelming. It's blatantly clear that GW would prefer to put the fun/shiny models outside of the battalion, so that people starting up VC's would get lured into the battalion because of its "savings" and then go out and buy shit they actually want.
I think I might have to iron out that list some and see if I can talk muggins into playing some refresher games with me.
I'm still really excited to see the impending Dwarfs vs. Ogres battle between Keenbean and Gabriel_Pitt.
I love the undead models, but I'm not wild about the VC or TK rules. Any idea how hard it would be to put together an undead Empire army? I think fluffwise it's not unheard of, and something like this is what I would be going for (although these are Brets I think):
Last I heard, there have been models ready to be sliced up for a plastic mold for a while, following the Corpse Cart zombie appearance, and the fluff idea of Necromancers 'spending more of their time patching up zombies with wood than doing real magic'. Apparently half fallen apart, arms braced by wood nailed to the bone, stuff like that. But it was such a huge departure from the 'classic' zombie, they decided not to go with it. Or so the rumour went.
The GW zombies are pretty terrible up close, but when painted and on the table, they look fine.
There's also going to be a ton of waste...as I'll probably be needing undead limbs/heads and Empire torsos, and it's not like I'll be able to use puffy Empire shirt arms and fleshy faces on skeleton torsos.
way back when you'd get about 30 skeletons/zombies out of a box of twenty empire guys and a box of skeletons/zombies. But that was for building a VC army with an Empire theme. (also, the old models worked easier together.)
skeletons/zombies are never wasted though. Who says you can't build a construct out of left over bones?
Some things really scare me, namely with hands. Looking at the sprues for the Pistoliers/Outriders for example, I think I'll have a hard time dealing with hands:
There's a ton of guns there with no hands on them...are those meant to sit on a holster or in a saddle pack? Anyone built these guys?
It's sort of moot for a month, because I want to see what new models/rules they come out with for Empire. Maybe I'll fall in love with something cool and just do Empire. Or say fuck it and play VC because dem models.
I don't know what any of that means.
A little, but I'm fine once I get to know people.