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I thought Mass Effect 1 was ok. Should I play Mass Effect 2 and 3?
spacekungfuman
Poor and minority-filledRegistered User regular
Poor and minority-filledRegistered User regular
I have been playing western RPGs forever, and have always been a big fan of Bioware's work (especially BG1/2). I played the first ME, and thought it was just okay. I don't like the conversation wheel (I feel like it forces you to make choices based on racking up paragon or renegade points, and not knowing what my character will say really takes away from my ability to identify with the character) wasn't a fan of how side quests were handled (in a game where you are a freebooter or adventurer, it makes sense to do odd jobs for coin, but it makes no sense when you are a highly trained and ranked military professional on a critical mission) and did not really like the characters for the most part (I think romances in games need to die a horrible death, and romancable NPCs tend to get weird once you reach the point where you are expected to have romanced them, regardless of whether you even started the romance).
All of that said, I did like some things about ME1. I actually liked how they weaved stats into combat, I thought the world was interesting, and I liked doing things like punching the reporter in the face, and otherwise being a general dick (I never played a game before where the evil path was more jerk than bad guy, and thought it was hilarious). I also really liked the whole humans first vs being a member of galactic society theme, although I was dissapointed that the game did not really let me play as strongly human first as I wanted to. Based on my feelings on ME1, would I like ME2 and 3, or do they go further in the direction I don't like? I know for example that stats get more and more marginalized in combat (which I think is a bad thing in general) and that the romances became more important (which I am guessing means more awkward character interactions), but I also know people seem to like 2 more than 1, and 3 seems popular too.
I should also point out that I will play them on 360 (I actually own ME2 on PC, but I think I will stomach what I assume is half assed action combat better on a console than a PC, since I have a long history of playing real fps on PC) and that I have limited gaming time, so I don't want to play them unless they are really worth it. If it helps, this generation I LOVED FO:NV, Borderlands, DA1 and Skyrim, HATED FO3 and Oblivion, and refuse to ever play DA2 (I just can't support the "spiritual successor" to BG using the dialog wheel and dropping real equipment slots, and everyone seems to think the game sucks anyway).
Thanks for any insight or advice you can give!
All of that said, I did like some things about ME1. I actually liked how they weaved stats into combat, I thought the world was interesting, and I liked doing things like punching the reporter in the face, and otherwise being a general dick (I never played a game before where the evil path was more jerk than bad guy, and thought it was hilarious). I also really liked the whole humans first vs being a member of galactic society theme, although I was dissapointed that the game did not really let me play as strongly human first as I wanted to. Based on my feelings on ME1, would I like ME2 and 3, or do they go further in the direction I don't like? I know for example that stats get more and more marginalized in combat (which I think is a bad thing in general) and that the romances became more important (which I am guessing means more awkward character interactions), but I also know people seem to like 2 more than 1, and 3 seems popular too.
I should also point out that I will play them on 360 (I actually own ME2 on PC, but I think I will stomach what I assume is half assed action combat better on a console than a PC, since I have a long history of playing real fps on PC) and that I have limited gaming time, so I don't want to play them unless they are really worth it. If it helps, this generation I LOVED FO:NV, Borderlands, DA1 and Skyrim, HATED FO3 and Oblivion, and refuse to ever play DA2 (I just can't support the "spiritual successor" to BG using the dialog wheel and dropping real equipment slots, and everyone seems to think the game sucks anyway).
Thanks for any insight or advice you can give!
"There are no necessary evils in government. Its evils exist only in its abuses. If it would confine itself to equal protection, and, as Heaven does its rains, shower its favors alike on the high and the low, the rich and the poor, it would be an unqualified blessing." -- Andrew Jackson
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But, ME2 is freaking amazing. ME1 is good, but ME2 took the bar and threw it to the moon.
Based on my post, do you think I'd like it though? I know a lot of people loved ME2, but I don't know how many of them love classic PC RPGs and did not like "innovations" like the conversation wheel.
"There are no necessary evils in government. Its evils exist only in its abuses. If it would confine itself to equal protection, and, as Heaven does its rains, shower its favors alike on the high and the low, the rich and the poor, it would be an unqualified blessing." -- Andrew Jackson
This is a nice sum-up.
Though I'd have for anyone to miss the incredible RPG experience of the final mission of ME2 just because the game no longer has an inventory.
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Yea, that is nice sum-up. Even though ME2 was a very mediocre play experience IMO (not just because it lacked "inventory tetris"), it still warrants playing for the story. If anything just run through it on Casual or something. But it should be played.
I can't tell if you read my OP. My complaints about ME1 were the conversation wheel, the way side quests did not fit well with the overall feeling of urgency, and the emphasis on romances. I also said that I regard stats in combat as a good thing (I actually really liked how ME1 handled stats in combat).
"There are no necessary evils in government. Its evils exist only in its abuses. If it would confine itself to equal protection, and, as Heaven does its rains, shower its favors alike on the high and the low, the rich and the poor, it would be an unqualified blessing." -- Andrew Jackson
If that's one of your sticking points, then... it doesn't change much in 2 or 3. It's still a Bioware game.
The conversation wheel is still there, side quests are always awful and out of place, and there is a heavy emphasis on romances. It's a BioWare game.
You can avoid romance through dialogue choice (though there are quite a few of them) and the side quests feel more built into the world in 2, less in 3 but nowhere near as silly as ME1
ME3 has numbers and stats for combat in as much as there are bars and choices that must be made in how your character is created that will affect how your abilities work
ME2 is mostly a shooter with some lite-RPG character building, although playing on Veteran difficulty helps because you end up relying much more on your powers and abilities, and squad composition becomes a factor
Really, though, it sounds like you might try Alpha Protocol instead. That game has... problems, but it sounds like problems you would enjoy
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Then you probably won't like the other ME games. The big fix is the shooting from ME1 to the other games so when you aim at stuff you actually hit it now. It plays much more like a third person shooter with RPG elements, and the conversation wheel is still how all conversations go down.
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Basically if you take ME1 as the baseline for story telling, ME2 sacrificed it somewhat in favor or shoring up the shooting gameplay, and ME3 turned all elements up to 11 to bring you into an interactive version of the best war movie you ever watched. ME3 in particular made me feel like the side quests fit in with the sense of urgency, but YMMV.
Did you see the list of action RPGs I loved and hated this gen? I loved Skyrim and FO:NV and HATED Oblivion and FO3 (to the point where I consider them among my most hated games of all time) and I think that, in addition to the former being much better games than the latter, part of it is that I was more ok with the idea of FP action rpgs on console (I played Skyrim and NV on 360) than PC (FO3 and Oblivion I only played on PC) because their failings as shooters are just too apparant in comparison to PC FPS games. If I start ME2 on PC, I am afraid I will hate it, which is why I would buy it for 360 instead.
"There are no necessary evils in government. Its evils exist only in its abuses. If it would confine itself to equal protection, and, as Heaven does its rains, shower its favors alike on the high and the low, the rich and the poor, it would be an unqualified blessing." -- Andrew Jackson
Also, I had the same problem in ME1 re:romances. They really get forced on you in the first one, to an extent -- Ashley was convinced we were dating, I think, when I really had no interest in her. It was awkward.
I didn't have that problem in either ME2 or ME3. That's partially because I pursued a romance, but I had to go out of my way to do so. As far as I know, it's perfectly possible to run a LonelyShepard playthrough of the latter two games.
The things you mentioned liking, especially things like punching the reporter and getting to be a dick to random NPCs? They get better and better in the other games.
As for the dialog wheel, I can't really grok your complaint there, so I can't comment.
Give ME2 a try, just do the missions you find interesting enough to be worthy of your time (I didn't do ANY sidequests my first playthrough of ME1), and for the love of Gary Gygax, don't read any sort of guide for the final mission until you've beaten it once. I really don't think I've seen another final mission quite so well put-together, so tense.
I love skyrim and FONV and never could bring myself to finish oblivion and fo3. ME2 is mostly a shooter with great plot. The sidequests don't comport with the sense of urgency in the rest of the game, but they didn't do that in Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 for me, either. They're still fun. You can figure out if you'll like it or not on PC within 30 minutes of beginning play, which is probably less time than you've spent on this thread so far.
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I did not feel that side quests were terrible in any of Bioware's pre-ME games. In fact, they are my favorite part of BG2.
On romances, while they have always sucked, there has definitely been a lot of romance creep in recent games. In BG2, they were kind of an interesting afterthought. In KOTOR, the romances really only ruined characters I did not like to begin with, so it was easy to write off. But ME1 was a romance fest, and I gather it gets worse and worse. In game romances are never written well, never believable, and worst of all, even if you skip them, since the writers aren't going to do completely distinct scripts based on your romance choices, the romancable characters start acting really weird later on, even if you never actually romanced them. Now with all this "every player needs to be able to romance every NPC, regardless of species or gender" nonsense Bio seems to have embraced, I am concerned that every single character in ME3 will have their personality compromised in the late game. Of course, full voice acting (another thing I hate in RPGs, since it constrains the amount of dialog and the number of choices you get) makes this even worse, since the characters' tones even change once you reach the "assumed you romanced them" phase of the game.
"There are no necessary evils in government. Its evils exist only in its abuses. If it would confine itself to equal protection, and, as Heaven does its rains, shower its favors alike on the high and the low, the rich and the poor, it would be an unqualified blessing." -- Andrew Jackson
The first one is pretty good, and sets up everything nicely, but feels a bit dry in some parts, such as the second half of Batman Begins.
ME2 is the Dark Knight of sequels. It capitalizes on everything, cleans junk up, and is pretty much better in most ways. It's a lickle bit hard to go back to the first one, but you can.
I was going to go the Terminator series, but I haven't seen the second one. Need to get on that one of these days.
This is a really helpful response.
I have two basic problems with the dialog wheel:
1. If I don't know what my character is going to say, I can't identify with the character. It is very frustrating to have a character concept in mind, choose the option you think sounds right, and then have it be something you never would have said. For example,
2. The way the wheel is structured takes away any semblance of choosing dialog because it is what you want to say, instead of because it is the "good" or "bad" option that will get you the right kind of points. This is also partially a problem with fully voiced dialog (the cost makes it hard to have a lot of options) but when I compare a game like FO to ME1, I can't help but feel sad that I know what choice I "should" make (I'm a renegade, so I have to choose the renegade option, right?) instead of actually choosing what I want my character to say.
"There are no necessary evils in government. Its evils exist only in its abuses. If it would confine itself to equal protection, and, as Heaven does its rains, shower its favors alike on the high and the low, the rich and the poor, it would be an unqualified blessing." -- Andrew Jackson
@Olivaw - I own it, but have not played it yet. What do you mean problems I would enjoy?
"There are no necessary evils in government. Its evils exist only in its abuses. If it would confine itself to equal protection, and, as Heaven does its rains, shower its favors alike on the high and the low, the rich and the poor, it would be an unqualified blessing." -- Andrew Jackson
Some various points that I hope are helpful:
Combat is much, MUCH better. The game is a legitimately solid shooter compared to the first. There's also a lot less filler combat.
Customization is reduced quite a bit. There's no more inventory, really. You get access to new guns by finding them or researching them, and then on the ship you can change what load outs characters carry. No more gun mods. You don't equip armor for squad mates anymore, and for Shepard's armor you find different pieces and basically make your own, which I liked cause you can pick the colors and stuff too. As for skills, the same still uses the same skill point system essentially, though the amount of skills are reduced. ME1 tended to have people complain that the customization went overboard, while ME2 had complaints of not enough. ME3 hits a really good medium between the two.
Dialogue wheel is still there. It's a series staple.
Romances are still there but I don't really get your problem with them. They are not as important as you're making them out to be. You can not romance anyone in the whole trilogy and not miss out on anything, aside from whatever emotional payoff you may get from it. Though in ME2, I'd say the romances are better than the first, and there's a lot more options.
There's no more driving the dumbass Mako around doing sidequests. There are much less sidequests in general and they consist of: land on planet, do a little fight or explore a little area, leave. The plot doesn't have quite the same sense of urgency to it that ME1's did so they don't feel as out of place.
The game is very, VERY character driven. The driving force of the game is recruiting people for a big mission, and getting those people loyal to you. Like 3/4s of the game is gathering your crew, getting to know them, and gaining their trust. The cast gets much more fleshed out than the ME1 cast as a result.
Transfer the same character through the three games if you can. There's not a ton of payoff to your decisions in 2, but 3 has some big variations based on your actions throughout the trilogy and the experience is just more satisfying in general if you take your personal Shepard through all three games.
1) The choices in ME2 tend to make it a little more clear what tone your character is going to go for if you choose that option. For example, when my ladyShep spoke with male crewmates, after a few conversations something like "I want you" would pop up in the dialog choice. Now Shep wasn't actually that akward about it in her dialog, but the dialog wheel made it clear that you should not choose this option if you don't want romance, and you should choose if if you do. I guess I can sorta see your point about not knowing exactly what will be said, but at least you get a better shot at saying what you want to say in this one.
2) The Paragon/Renegade choices are slightly less of an issue in this game, because you can, in some situations, select physical actions that add to your scores. There is no prerequisite for being able to use the actions. So a situation may come up where you can punch someone. Even if you're 100% paragon, you can still take the chance to punch them, and gain a few renegade points. Additionally, a situation may come up where you can hug someone; even at 100% renegade, you can take that hug and gain a few paragon points. My Shep was much more mixed in 2 than she was in 1. Admittedly it's still an issue that you have to be mostly renegade or paragon to get some of the harder dialog choices.
Origin ID: jazzmess
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The problem with romances is that they make the characters worse even if you don't do them. Since the writers can't seem to write a relationship in a convincing fashion in any game, the post-romance dialog for romancable characters tends to be worse than the preromance dialog, regardless of whether you romanced them or not. The romances also wind up taking up a lot of writing time which could be better spent adding more branching dialog trees. I basically see nothing but downsides to romances, even with characters like Viconia in BG2 (that was the romance that bothered me the least of any Bio game).
"There are no necessary evils in government. Its evils exist only in its abuses. If it would confine itself to equal protection, and, as Heaven does its rains, shower its favors alike on the high and the low, the rich and the poor, it would be an unqualified blessing." -- Andrew Jackson
That sounds better tha ME1, at least. I really wish they would just include an interface option to show the full lines if you wanted. I know if means you hear them read after you read them, but I would happily just skip hearing the voice acting.
Maybe the answer is to not take the game as seriously? KOTOR1 had a lot of flaws (combat was way to easy and mindless) but the sheer level of cartoon evil on display with the darkside options (especially with force powers) more than made up for them. Maybe I should just try and view ME2/3 as something less than RPGs.
"There are no necessary evils in government. Its evils exist only in its abuses. If it would confine itself to equal protection, and, as Heaven does its rains, shower its favors alike on the high and the low, the rich and the poor, it would be an unqualified blessing." -- Andrew Jackson
The railroaded romance is much worse in ME1 than in the other games. And in favor of at least one of the romances in ME2, it's actually pretty hilarious to be a FemShep in a romance with Garrus. It's akward but deliberately so.
Even if you romance no one in ME2, though, you can still get some 'getting to know you' dialog with them, with mostly obvious choices to let you know when you've stepped beyond friend territory. I thought for the most part that the squad dialog in 2 is improved in every way than it was in 1. Especially enjoyable are the squaddie comments when you bring them on missions.
ME3 goes even further in allowing for more 'friend' interactions than romance interactions. 3 is similar to DA1 (and 2) in that your squadmates interact with each other more as well.
Origin ID: jazzmess
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I really like interparty banter, so that's good to know.
Can I effectively pursue my humans first character in ME2 and 3? I was not really satisfied with my options in 1, until the end (you can guess what ending I picked). Also, can I have an all human party?
"There are no necessary evils in government. Its evils exist only in its abuses. If it would confine itself to equal protection, and, as Heaven does its rains, shower its favors alike on the high and the low, the rich and the poor, it would be an unqualified blessing." -- Andrew Jackson
That aside, if you were disappointed that ME1 and ME2 didn't allow quite enough chest-beating humans first braggadocio, ME3 has by far the least of those options in the entire series.
Then again, I've never found the paragon choices so compelling before; take that as you will.
I assure you this is not the case in ME2 and ME3. At all. The characters are solidly written throughout, with the possible exception of James Vega in ME3 -- and he's not bad, just a little bland IMO.
Out of curiosity, how did you feel about the writing for romances in prior bio games?
"There are no necessary evils in government. Its evils exist only in its abuses. If it would confine itself to equal protection, and, as Heaven does its rains, shower its favors alike on the high and the low, the rich and the poor, it would be an unqualified blessing." -- Andrew Jackson
Since the threat of the Reapers is something that no one race could ever deal with on its own, you're gonna get to the point where you're gonna have to try and make nice with the other species(ME3 especially). But that doesn't mean you can't keep up a pro-human attitude in general, and think about your decisions in a what will benefit humans most kind of way. ME2 actually involves Cerberus heavily in the plot, who you may remember as a pro-human terrorist group in several ME1 sidequests.
There are enough human squad members to always have two with you. Though you're going to have to recruit alien members in general, even if you just leave them on the ship. It's not like in ME1 where there are only two and one of them has to die halfway through.
Characters develop wether or not you romance them, and every single one has two major quests.
I did not play 2, only 1. I don't like the "we're all in this together" message because the other species are treating humans so poorly. Based on everything being said in marketing materials I was really amped up to be able to aggressively push for humans over the other species, and then the game just did not deliver. I always find it dissapointing when I have a character concept which seems like it should work based on everything I hear about a game and then it isn't viable.
"There are no necessary evils in government. Its evils exist only in its abuses. If it would confine itself to equal protection, and, as Heaven does its rains, shower its favors alike on the high and the low, the rich and the poor, it would be an unqualified blessing." -- Andrew Jackson
Good to know. To be honest, Garrus was just a good guy, so I brought him with me a lot anyway, but I didn't even talk to the other party members much on the ship (I really only liked Garrus and Ashley).
When you say characters develop whether or not you romance them, do you mean they go in different directions if you don't romance them? Because that would really put my fears to rest. In ME1, I reached a certain point where party interactions just got uncomfortable, because almost everyone was acting like they might have had sex with Shepard (even Kaiden, which was VERY uncomfortable as male shep).
"There are no necessary evils in government. Its evils exist only in its abuses. If it would confine itself to equal protection, and, as Heaven does its rains, shower its favors alike on the high and the low, the rich and the poor, it would be an unqualified blessing." -- Andrew Jackson
Heh, ironically all the combat specialists and mercs ME2 spoiler
Obviously your Shepard is very busy when you aren't playing the game.
It's just that nobody really likes to talk about it openly.
I'd have to disagree with this; there's no inventory Tetris in ME1 at all, that would be a massive improvement. And if you think the combat was 'turn based' you're sadly mistaken. From the reviews I've read and my minimal time with 2 befor I decided to skip it, I'd say it's more like "if you like the parts of ME1 that felt like a clunky generic bald space marine shooter and hated the minimal RPG bits, boy is ME2 the game for you!"
If you like being pals with Garrus, you get to continue to do so for the rest of the series and by the end there are some pretty awesome bro moments between you and him. Garrus can totally be your space homie.
I wouldn't say things go in different directions so much as everyone has a character arc independent of romance, and then a romantic arc as well. Basically choosing not to romance them doesn't cut off their development.
You said that you loved Dragon Age: Origins, right? The romance options are pretty similar to that game. Basically, romancable characters will start getting a little "friendly" and you get a couple of chances to say "yeah I want to bang" or "let's just be friends." For what my opinion is worth, I think the "friend" paths are pretty believable. There's still affection, but it feels a lot like a brotherly/sisterly type of thing.
For an example you might understand, consider Zevran. You know how, at one point, he made some comment about being interested in you? If you took the non-romance path you basically just became bros? It's kinda like that.
I actually have not beaten it or even gone that far into the game, I just love that it has a combat feel I like. I have actively tried to avoid romances, and it has been ok so far.
"There are no necessary evils in government. Its evils exist only in its abuses. If it would confine itself to equal protection, and, as Heaven does its rains, shower its favors alike on the high and the low, the rich and the poor, it would be an unqualified blessing." -- Andrew Jackson