The game made it pretty clear that in this mass effect universe, synthetics always outpace organic life. Combine that with individual, free thought and you're bound to get A final conflict.
As for the "energy wave".... I would've preferred to see more of what it changed, but what did you expect? Reaper diplomats on the citadel?
The game made it pretty clear that in this mass effect universe, synthetics always outpace organic life. Combine that with individual, free thought and you're bound to get A final conflict.
As for the "energy wave".... I would've preferred to see more of what it changed, but what did you expect? Reaper diplomats on the citadel?
The themes of the ending needed to be seeded more throughout the series. Yes, synthetic vs. organic is a major theme of Mass Effect, but there was no indication of it being the theme. You've also got self-determination, cooperation, etc.
The reapers attacked earth first because if we spread the secrets of hep jazz to the rest of the galaxy the reapers stand no chance.
Final battle is a battle of the bands vs. harbinger. Liara's on sax, Garrus on trumpet, Legion on keyboard, Tali's playing drums. Shep is lead vocals of course.
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
The game made it pretty clear that in this mass effect universe, synthetics always outpace organic life. Combine that with individual, free thought and you're bound to get A final conflict.
As for the "energy wave".... I would've preferred to see more of what it changed, but what did you expect? Reaper diplomats on the citadel?
The game made it pretty clear that in this mass effect universe, synthetics always outpace organic life. Combine that with individual, free thought and you're bound to get A final conflict.
As for the "energy wave".... I would've preferred to see more of what it changed, but what did you expect? Reaper diplomats on the citadel?
The themes of the ending needed to be seeded more throughout the series. Yes, synthetic vs. organic is a major theme of Mass Effect, but there was no indication of it being the theme. You've also got self-determination, cooperation, etc.
All those themes are present?
Self determination of organics (destroy the reapers) vs lack of self determination of synthetics (control the reapers) vs cooperation. It's in those choices. And while the endings might seem "similar", what you decided before changed the game world big time. Hell, if you didn't save jack, she ends up as a phantom fighting you for example.
The game made it pretty clear that in this mass effect universe, synthetics always outpace organic life. Combine that with individual, free thought and you're bound to get A final conflict.
As for the "energy wave".... I would've preferred to see more of what it changed, but what did you expect? Reaper diplomats on the citadel?
The themes of the ending needed to be seeded more throughout the series. Yes, synthetic vs. organic is a major theme of Mass Effect, but there was no indication of it being the theme. You've also got self-determination, cooperation, etc.
All those themes are present?
Self determination of organics (destroy the reapers) vs lack of self determination of synthetics (control the reapers) vs cooperation. It's in those choices. And while the endings might seem "similar", what you decided before changed the game world big time. Hell, if you didn't save jack, she ends up as a phantom fighting you for example.
...But that's not the ending.
The problem is the ending invalidates the importance of the examples you're giving of how great the ending is.
If you changed the endings to black and white you could hardly even tell which is which. And claiming that, "nono, they're actually really different!" doesn't count when the only difference is the fan speculation of what that particular ending actually did.
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
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WeaverWho are you?What do you want?Registered Userregular
I was victim to the ME1 importing error, however I followed the instructions of using the mass effect saves site to get a face code, the thing is exactly how it was before now. I had change the hair colour and a few other minor details back to how they were.
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WeaverWho are you?What do you want?Registered Userregular
The game made it pretty clear that in this mass effect universe, synthetics always outpace organic life. Combine that with individual, free thought and you're bound to get A final conflict.
As for the "energy wave".... I would've preferred to see more of what it changed, but what did you expect? Reaper diplomats on the citadel?
To
5) Brevity
The ending was the whole sequence, beginning from
London, to the citadel. I don't call that short. The universe is changed by your actions. Why does a technically "short" ending mean there are no vast repercussions or implications?
To
4) It is Confusing and Under-Developed
"t turns out to be a ridiculous AI whose visual representation is the young boy haunting Shepard’s nightmares throughout the game."
This is because it chose something to endear itself to shepard. If shepard had nightmares about an old comrade's death, that would've been the AI. Looks pretty clear to me.
And " The AI then claims that he created the Reapers billions of years ago as a means of solving the problem of synthetic life forms killing their organic creators. The Reaper’s whole purpose is to save Organics by killing them, and turning them into synthetics. So that Organics won’t make synthetics who will then kill organics."
It's not about a single organic species, or even most of them. The theme is domination. Unchecked synthetics wouldn't just fight organics, they could basically sterilize the universe and keep it that way, ultimately ending all life. The reapers stop synthetics from doing this by assimilating and controlling them, and organics are stopped from re-imagining such synthetics by destruction, allowing life to exist.
It's somewhat convoluted, but not as crazy as the author makes it out to be. It's
organic development and happiness for as long as you are able to create something that wipes the whole universe clean from the likes of you
vs
the universe being wiped clean from the likes of you.
3) Lore Errors, Plot Holes
* The Mass Relays.
Those guys built the mass relays. They probably know a thing more about them than most people in the ME universe. And in what way energy is released is pretty important. So, that energy wave is simply not a regular explosion, but something else. I mean, look at an engine. You have gallons of gasoline, they explode in the engine. Still you get movement, not destruction.
* Inferred Holocaust
"Everyone in the galaxy is stranded where they happened to be at that moment, including thousands of ships and millions of alien races now orbiting a ruined Earth."
They still have the regular jump drives. Plus they are (in some endings) now a combination of synthetic and organic life, which probably implies that they are more capable in every way than every songle one of them.
And, in the combination ending, the reapers aren't destroyed either. They have jump drives capable enough to basically ignore the mass gates.
That point is pretty contrived. Even if this leads to bad things if you chose one of the other endings, but why is this a bad thing for the game? Decisions have repercussions.
* The Normandy’s Escape
That is more unclear and bugs me somewhat, too.
Maybe they got back to the normandy after shepard was blasted to hell, so they could try something else, or bury the plans for the crucible somewhere else?
2) Key Philosophical Themes Are Discardedit
"ultimately disregards all of them in order to force a tired twist ending on players who have seen far too many movies and played far too many games to be surprised. That the ending also requires the player to act contrary to their own actions as established by the series and even Mass Effect 3 itself is just bitter icing on a stale cake."
Player Choice Is Completely Discarded
I don't know. It's pretty hard to have a million different endings, and the universe is shaped through your actions, whether the consequences are shown or not. What is left, who is left, is all dependant on what you did before. No matter what ending you choose.
autono-wally, erotibot300 on
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WeaverWho are you?What do you want?Registered Userregular
The game made it pretty clear that in this mass effect universe, synthetics always outpace organic life. Combine that with individual, free thought and you're bound to get A final conflict.
As for the "energy wave".... I would've preferred to see more of what it changed, but what did you expect? Reaper diplomats on the citadel?
The themes of the ending needed to be seeded more throughout the series. Yes, synthetic vs. organic is a major theme of Mass Effect, but there was no indication of it being the theme. You've also got self-determination, cooperation, etc.
All those themes are present?
Self determination of organics (destroy the reapers) vs lack of self determination of synthetics (control the reapers) vs cooperation. It's in those choices. And while the endings might seem "similar", what you decided before changed the game world big time. Hell, if you didn't save jack, she ends up as a phantom fighting you for example.
...But that's not the ending.
The problem is the ending invalidates the importance of the examples you're giving of how great the ending is.
If you changed the endings to black and white you could hardly even tell which is which. And claiming that, "nono, they're actually really different!" doesn't count when the only difference is the fan speculation of what that particular ending actually did.
An story sometimes leaves room for thought. I am not a fan of the notion that EVERYTHING needs to be spelt out or else it didn't happen.
I never realized just how very much I love Anderson. Not until he died saying he was proud of me. I just started a new game of ME3, and couldn't help but bawl like a little child, seeing Anderson alive again and remembering his "You did good, child. I'm proud of you." Considering how little, very little time is actually spent with Anderson, it's pretty amazing to me the level of affection I have.
I mean damn, I care way more about his death than Miranda's or Jack's... and I liked Jack and had some actual personal conversations with her.
See, this is what I am talking about.
Jack and miranda both lived in my game, and helped me big time. The game world is shaped by your decisions, I don't know what the ending actually changes with that
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WeaverWho are you?What do you want?Registered Userregular
edited March 2012
Yeah auto. The ending tots pulled a BSG. There's been pages and pages of it. Pages and pages of coherent, educated discussion. Your opinion is yours. As a statement defining the ending, that opinion is wrong.
I actually consider ME3 worse than BSG because the writing on the wall that BSG was going to end really badly and stupidly was pretty obvious.
like, for me, the wheels on BSG fell off right at the point when (I guess spoilers if you haven't watched BSG)
Baltar suddenly realizes that out of the stated 12 Cylon models we've seen 7 and he asks "Who are the Final Five?"
and Caprica Six's response to him is "We don't talk about them."
That was the exact point where I realized "The writers don't know what they are doing and are making this shit up as they go with no real planning."
For BSG, that moment was in the beginning of the third season.
So I saw the horse-shit ending coming and was less disappointed by it.
ME3's ending is worse because I had no such "Well this is obviously going to go south" inklings until the absolute very last ten minutes or so of the game and then I was like
Yeah auto. The ending tots pulled a BSG. There's been pages and pages of it. Pages and pages of coherent, educated discussion. Your opinion is yours. As a statement defining the ending, that opinion is wrong.
I am fastreading through half of the old locked thread and this whole one, if I have enough time. Maybe I'm still to freshly done with it to feel disappointed. I'll see afterwards what I think.
On the other hand, now a Mass Effect MMO would be awesome for everyone
Because MMOs never end-
Yeah auto. The ending tots pulled a BSG. There's been pages and pages of it. Pages and pages of coherent, educated discussion. Your opinion is yours. As a statement defining the ending, that opinion is wrong.
I am fastreading through half of the old locked thread and this whole one, if I have enough time. Maybe I'm still to freshly done with it to feel disappointed. I'll see afterwards what I think.
On the other hand, now a Mass Effect MMO would be awesome for everyone
Because MMOs never end-
except
You can't do a Mass Effect MMO, all the relays are destroyed, the universe is broken.
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WeaverWho are you?What do you want?Registered Userregular
auto, a few pages back, Orik posted a pretty awesome essay
I'd link it, if I hadn't joined a multi game right after reading it and forgot to bookmark it
Yeah auto. The ending tots pulled a BSG. There's been pages and pages of it. Pages and pages of coherent, educated discussion. Your opinion is yours. As a statement defining the ending, that opinion is wrong.
I am fastreading through half of the old locked thread and this whole one, if I have enough time. Maybe I'm still to freshly done with it to feel disappointed. I'll see afterwards what I think.
On the other hand, now a Mass Effect MMO would be awesome for everyone
Because MMOs never end-
except
You can't do a Mass Effect MMO, all the relays are destroyed, the universe is broken.
Sure you can!
You wouldn't play as shepard anyways. So, pic "random faction" character and place him anywhere in the timeline before the ending.
Me1, 2, or 3.
The game made it pretty clear that in this mass effect universe, synthetics always outpace organic life. Combine that with individual, free thought and you're bound to get A final conflict.
As for the "energy wave".... I would've preferred to see more of what it changed, but what did you expect? Reaper diplomats on the citadel?
To
5) Brevity
The ending was the whole sequence, beginning from
London, to the citadel. I don't call that short. The universe is changed by your actions. Why does a technically "short" ending mean there are no vast repercussions or implications?
3) Lore Errors, Plot Holes
* The Mass Relays.
Those guys built the mass relays. They probably know a thing more about them than most people in the ME universe. And in what way energy is released is pretty important. So, that energy wave is simply not a regular explosion, but something else. I mean, look at an engine. You have gallons of gasoline, they explode in the engine. Still you get movement, not destruction.
* The Normandy’s Escape
That is more unclear and bugs me somewhat, too.
Maybe they got back to the normandy after shepard was blasted to hell, so they could try something else, or bury the plans for the crucible somewhere else?
[/spoiler]
Just wanted to tackle a couple of these things
First of all yes, the final chapter is from London to the credits. That isn't the ending though. Do you call the ending to King Kong the entire sequence from him being brought back to New York, his rampage, and then death or do you call the ending the moment he dies and the final line is delivered? When we mention brevity we don't mean the time it took, we mean how much meaning is put into such a short moment. A long, drawn out ending that explains everything is just as bad as a short one that doesn't capture the scope of the universe you've poured more than a full day into.
A vast majority of fans don't necessarily want, or wanted from the start, for everything to be spelled out for them. A lot of us wanted a good finale to a series we've treasured for some years and to throw in a completely new factor, a whole plot point in at the last minute to give a quick, flawed, two minute speech about everything that's happening is lazy and so confusing that yes, now explanations and more exposition is needed. The fact that the ending was short isn't the fault we're all looking at, it's that it was short, introduced a whole new "species", an entire second shadow to the game we weren't clued in on at all, and then finished abruptly after it ordered us to make a "choice."
And in terms of the Mass Relays, yeah an engine does have several comparatively small, insignificant explosions going on. However exploding an engine still makes the damn thing blow up and cause a lot of damage. You can control explosions, shape them, direct them, but when the entire audience has been told before that blowing this one plot device up leads to a supernova, and then showing every single one rip at the seams and go to pieces then it is safe for us to assume the result is the same as before. If we had seen the Relays become deactivated, or maybe even go dim and then crumple apart, that's a whole different story.
If I showed you footage of a guy in his backyard blowing up a firework, and then show you the manufacturer blowing up the exact same model do you really think one has more control or either explosion has less impact than the other?
The game made it pretty clear that in this mass effect universe, synthetics always outpace organic life. Combine that with individual, free thought and you're bound to get A final conflict.
As for the "energy wave".... I would've preferred to see more of what it changed, but what did you expect? Reaper diplomats on the citadel?
The themes of the ending needed to be seeded more throughout the series. Yes, synthetic vs. organic is a major theme of Mass Effect, but there was no indication of it being the theme. You've also got self-determination, cooperation, etc.
All those themes are present?
Self determination of organics (destroy the reapers) vs lack of self determination of synthetics (control the reapers) vs cooperation. It's in those choices. And while the endings might seem "similar", what you decided before changed the game world big time. Hell, if you didn't save jack, she ends up as a phantom fighting you for example.
...But that's not the ending.
The problem is the ending invalidates the importance of the examples you're giving of how great the ending is.
If you changed the endings to black and white you could hardly even tell which is which. And claiming that, "nono, they're actually really different!" doesn't count when the only difference is the fan speculation of what that particular ending actually did.
An story sometimes leaves room for thought. I am not a fan of the notion that EVERYTHING needs to be spelt out or else it didn't happen.
That can work but when you literally explain nothing concept fails.
I have a podcast now. It's about video games and anime!Find it here.
so far advanced in future-universe that it seems like magic even to them is pretty moot. I was thinking more along the lines of showing a caveman a gasoline explosion, then showing you fill the stuff in a car. Do you think he could fathom it doing good?
Edit: And the tech is countless times more advanced than we are compared to a caveman
Yeah auto. The ending tots pulled a BSG. There's been pages and pages of it. Pages and pages of coherent, educated discussion. Your opinion is yours. As a statement defining the ending, that opinion is wrong.
I am fastreading through half of the old locked thread and this whole one, if I have enough time. Maybe I'm still to freshly done with it to feel disappointed. I'll see afterwards what I think.
On the other hand, now a Mass Effect MMO would be awesome for everyone
Because MMOs never end-
except
You can't do a Mass Effect MMO, all the relays are destroyed, the universe is broken.
Sure you can!
You wouldn't play as shepard anyways. So, pic "random faction" character and place him anywhere in the timeline before the ending.
Me1, 2, or 3.
ME's timeline is not particularly dense, duder.
It's not Star Wars, where you can just pick any point before the game's events and just have it be more or less like the events of the first game.
I guess you could set it in the two year gap between 1 and 2, or do a prequel series to 1 entirely
in the like, 20 or 30 year span between discovery of the Mass Relays and ME1?
I feel the ending is clunky, the tone is not at all in line with the rest of the game, and there was a perfect moment to end it, but it kept on rolling in a direction I did not expect/did not want.
I think everyone who has beaten the game can agree the ending is polarizing.
It is a very comprehensive ending that does STUFF.
As a result, people tend to feel very strongly about the stuff it does.
From my end, it's why I had no interest in watching the Caprica TV show
it was a BSG prequel
I know how BSG ended, I know how BSG played out
which means a prequel series to that, ultimately just leads into that shit.
So I didn't care to watch it.
ME3's ending has, retroactively, killed my interest in replaying ME1 or ME2 and killed any interest I have in side-stories or new adventures in that universe, like ME: Infiltrator
because I know how it inevitably ends, how I can't do anything to change that, and it makes all the rest of it feel pointless
Multiplayer is still fun though if I focus on the gameplay and guns and classes and ignore everything lore related
Posts
As for the "energy wave".... I would've preferred to see more of what it changed, but what did you expect? Reaper diplomats on the citadel?
Final battle is a battle of the bands vs. harbinger. Liara's on sax, Garrus on trumpet, Legion on keyboard, Tali's playing drums. Shep is lead vocals of course.
just gonna leave this here:
http://www.gamefront.com/mass-effect-3-ending-hatred-5-reasons-the-fans-are-right
it explains my reasoning pretty well
...But that's not the ending.
If you changed the endings to black and white you could hardly even tell which is which. And claiming that, "nono, they're actually really different!" doesn't count when the only difference is the fan speculation of what that particular ending actually did.
That looks like the kinda dude who leaps out of bed and immediately starts snapping orders.
cell phone pics
you heathens
looks like shit
5) Brevity
The ending was the whole sequence, beginning from
To
4) It is Confusing and Under-Developed
This is because it chose something to endear itself to shepard. If shepard had nightmares about an old comrade's death, that would've been the AI. Looks pretty clear to me.
And " The AI then claims that he created the Reapers billions of years ago as a means of solving the problem of synthetic life forms killing their organic creators. The Reaper’s whole purpose is to save Organics by killing them, and turning them into synthetics. So that Organics won’t make synthetics who will then kill organics."
It's not about a single organic species, or even most of them. The theme is domination. Unchecked synthetics wouldn't just fight organics, they could basically sterilize the universe and keep it that way, ultimately ending all life. The reapers stop synthetics from doing this by assimilating and controlling them, and organics are stopped from re-imagining such synthetics by destruction, allowing life to exist.
It's somewhat convoluted, but not as crazy as the author makes it out to be. It's
organic development and happiness for as long as you are able to create something that wipes the whole universe clean from the likes of you
vs
the universe being wiped clean from the likes of you.
3) Lore Errors, Plot Holes
Those guys built the mass relays. They probably know a thing more about them than most people in the ME universe. And in what way energy is released is pretty important. So, that energy wave is simply not a regular explosion, but something else. I mean, look at an engine. You have gallons of gasoline, they explode in the engine. Still you get movement, not destruction.
* Inferred Holocaust
"Everyone in the galaxy is stranded where they happened to be at that moment, including thousands of ships and millions of alien races now orbiting a ruined Earth."
They still have the regular jump drives. Plus they are (in some endings) now a combination of synthetic and organic life, which probably implies that they are more capable in every way than every songle one of them.
And, in the combination ending, the reapers aren't destroyed either. They have jump drives capable enough to basically ignore the mass gates.
That point is pretty contrived. Even if this leads to bad things if you chose one of the other endings, but why is this a bad thing for the game? Decisions have repercussions.
* The Normandy’s Escape
That is more unclear and bugs me somewhat, too.
Maybe they got back to the normandy after shepard was blasted to hell, so they could try something else, or bury the plans for the crucible somewhere else?
2) Key Philosophical Themes Are Discardedit
See
1)
I don't know. It's pretty hard to have a million different endings, and the universe is shaped through your actions, whether the consequences are shown or not. What is left, who is left, is all dependant on what you did before. No matter what ending you choose.
lesser race
I mean, I don't agree with anything you said and I think it's absolutely pointless to try to argue with you about this, so I won't.
But I give you a lot of credit for thinking what you think and making your points in a clear, honest way without being a jerk-ass.
Nice work.
Why wonder? There are 88 enlightening pages in this very thread.
Enjoy
like, for me, the wheels on BSG fell off right at the point when (I guess spoilers if you haven't watched BSG)
and Caprica Six's response to him is "We don't talk about them."
That was the exact point where I realized "The writers don't know what they are doing and are making this shit up as they go with no real planning."
For BSG, that moment was in the beginning of the third season.
So I saw the horse-shit ending coming and was less disappointed by it.
ME3's ending is worse because I had no such "Well this is obviously going to go south" inklings until the absolute very last ten minutes or so of the game and then I was like
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SP_9zH9Q44o&feature=player_embedded
I am fastreading through half of the old locked thread and this whole one, if I have enough time. Maybe I'm still to freshly done with it to feel disappointed. I'll see afterwards what I think.
On the other hand, now a Mass Effect MMO would be awesome for everyone
Because MMOs never end-
except
I'd link it, if I hadn't joined a multi game right after reading it and forgot to bookmark it
Sure you can!
Me1, 2, or 3.
Just wanted to tackle a couple of these things
A vast majority of fans don't necessarily want, or wanted from the start, for everything to be spelled out for them. A lot of us wanted a good finale to a series we've treasured for some years and to throw in a completely new factor, a whole plot point in at the last minute to give a quick, flawed, two minute speech about everything that's happening is lazy and so confusing that yes, now explanations and more exposition is needed. The fact that the ending was short isn't the fault we're all looking at, it's that it was short, introduced a whole new "species", an entire second shadow to the game we weren't clued in on at all, and then finished abruptly after it ordered us to make a "choice."
And in terms of the Mass Relays, yeah an engine does have several comparatively small, insignificant explosions going on. However exploding an engine still makes the damn thing blow up and cause a lot of damage. You can control explosions, shape them, direct them, but when the entire audience has been told before that blowing this one plot device up leads to a supernova, and then showing every single one rip at the seams and go to pieces then it is safe for us to assume the result is the same as before. If we had seen the Relays become deactivated, or maybe even go dim and then crumple apart, that's a whole different story.
If I showed you footage of a guy in his backyard blowing up a firework, and then show you the manufacturer blowing up the exact same model do you really think one has more control or either explosion has less impact than the other?
That can work but when you literally explain nothing concept fails.
Edit: And the tech is countless times more advanced than we are compared to a caveman
ME's timeline is not particularly dense, duder.
It's not Star Wars, where you can just pick any point before the game's events and just have it be more or less like the events of the first game.
I guess you could set it in the two year gap between 1 and 2, or do a prequel series to 1 entirely
in the like, 20 or 30 year span between discovery of the Mass Relays and ME1?
yeah, that's great
in the end, you still know how it ends
like, I'm still playing the multiplayer because, as a game, the multiplayer is really fun and well designed and it's a blast to play with people
but I could give a shit less about new stories set in that universe.
no real spoilers however better safe than sorry
I think everyone who has beaten the game can agree the ending is polarizing.
It is a very comprehensive ending that does STUFF.
As a result, people tend to feel very strongly about the stuff it does.
From my end, it's why I had no interest in watching the Caprica TV show
it was a BSG prequel
I know how BSG ended, I know how BSG played out
which means a prequel series to that, ultimately just leads into that shit.
So I didn't care to watch it.
ME3's ending has, retroactively, killed my interest in replaying ME1 or ME2 and killed any interest I have in side-stories or new adventures in that universe, like ME: Infiltrator
because I know how it inevitably ends, how I can't do anything to change that, and it makes all the rest of it feel pointless
Multiplayer is still fun though if I focus on the gameplay and guns and classes and ignore everything lore related