I picked the other ending first, so that the New Game+ would make more sense.
I played through and picked the good ending. I always feel in any game that the first playthrough should always be the 'true' one and New Game+ is just clean-up.
I had to, the Kid had nothing before the Calamity, and why would you want to go back to that? He has the Stranger and Zia, and even Zulf (Yes I saved him, I couldn't leave him to die.)
Well...
The Kid had nothing, sure, but what about all the people who died?! Don't you care about them?
What about them? All the Bastion does is reset things exactly to the way they were before the Calamity happened. The exact same thing is going to happen over and over again; the cycle of hatred is going to continue, and the Calamity is going to keep happening. Even if the Kid and Rucks have their memories, who the hell is going to believe them?
No, at the end of the day, Evacuation is the best choice because Restoration has no inbuilt way to break the cycle. Everyone's dead, and everyone's going to keep dying over and over again; might as well just mourn the dead and move on.
If there was any way going back would change things, then it'd be the moral choice, but the designer of the Bastion himself professes that it can't do that, and that the Calamity may very well happen again. Logic dictates that it is going to happen again.
What's more, by constantly reusing the Bastion, you lock the entire world into a temporal loop of endless death and destruction thanks to the actions of the Caeldonians. Is that really moral?
It's not clear that the Bastion sets everything back exactly though, right? Doesn't Ruck say some stuff like "I think this is a reset button but I'm not 100% sure what happens, I'm not sure if everything will just happen the same way or not?" I thought it was pretty clear that there was at least some chance that maybe, by resetting, you'd be able to avoid everything.
Yeah, he says that. These are the two possibilities I inferred could happen:
#1-Things go back to the way they were exactly, and nobody remembers the Calamity.
This means that the Calamity is indeed going to happen over again exactly, because in the absence of outside stimulus everybody's going to act exactly the same way; why wouldn't they?
#2-Things go back to the way they were exactly, and the survivors remember the Calamity.
This seems to be discredited by Rucks' assertion that they will no longer be together if the Bastion is fired, but even if it's true, the logical extension of this is that the Ura launch a full-scale assault on Caeldonia, which results in the firing of the doomsday device and the Calamity.
Either way you end up with the Calamity again, so why lock everyone into a horrific loop of death and destruction? Mourn the dead, for they cannot be saved, and rebuild the world so that such hatred never happens again.
The_Tuninator on
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ShimshaiFlush with Success!Isle of EmeraldRegistered Userregular
I picked the other ending first, so that the New Game+ would make more sense.
I played through and picked the good ending. I always feel in any game that the first playthrough should always be the 'true' one and New Game+ is just clean-up.
I had to, the Kid had nothing before the Calamity, and why would you want to go back to that? He has the Stranger and Zia, and even Zulf (Yes I saved him, I couldn't leave him to die.)
Well...
The Kid had nothing, sure, but what about all the people who died?! Don't you care about them?
What about them? All the Bastion does is reset things exactly to the way they were before the Calamity happened. The exact same thing is going to happen over and over again; the cycle of hatred is going to continue, and the Calamity is going to keep happening. Even if the Kid and Rucks have their memories, who the hell is going to believe them?
No, at the end of the day, Evacuation is the best choice because Restoration has no inbuilt way to break the cycle. Everyone's dead, and everyone's going to keep dying over and over again; might as well just mourn the dead and move on.
If there was any way going back would change things, then it'd be the moral choice, but the designer of the Bastion himself professes that it can't do that, and that the Calamity may very well happen again. Logic dictates that it is going to happen again.
What's more, by constantly reusing the Bastion, you lock the entire world into a temporal loop of endless death and destruction thanks to the actions of the Caeldonians. Is that really moral?
It's not clear that the Bastion sets everything back exactly though, right? Doesn't Ruck say some stuff like "I think this is a reset button but I'm not 100% sure what happens, I'm not sure if everything will just happen the same way or not?" I thought it was pretty clear that there was at least some chance that maybe, by resetting, you'd be able to avoid everything.
Yeah, he says that. These are the two possibilities I inferred could happen:
#1-Things go back to the way they were exactly, and nobody remembers the Calamity.
This means that the Calamity is indeed going to happen over again exactly, because in the absence of outside stimulus everybody's going to act exactly the same way; why wouldn't they?
#2-Things go back to the way they were exactly, and the survivors remember the Calamity.
This seems to be discredited by Rucks' assertion that they will no longer be together if the Bastion is fired, but even if it's true, the logical extension of this is that the Ura launch a full-scale assault on Caeldonia, which results in the firing of the doomsday device and the Calamity.
Either way you end up with the Calamity again, so why lock everyone into a horrific loop of death and destruction?
But there is no guarantee that the end result of the restoration will be another calamity. Even if there's still only the slimmest chance that something different will happen, what is there to be lost by trying again and again to restore both Caelondia and the Tazal Terminals?
I picked the other ending first, so that the New Game+ would make more sense.
I played through and picked the good ending. I always feel in any game that the first playthrough should always be the 'true' one and New Game+ is just clean-up.
I had to, the Kid had nothing before the Calamity, and why would you want to go back to that? He has the Stranger and Zia, and even Zulf (Yes I saved him, I couldn't leave him to die.)
Well...
The Kid had nothing, sure, but what about all the people who died?! Don't you care about them?
What about them? All the Bastion does is reset things exactly to the way they were before the Calamity happened. The exact same thing is going to happen over and over again; the cycle of hatred is going to continue, and the Calamity is going to keep happening. Even if the Kid and Rucks have their memories, who the hell is going to believe them?
No, at the end of the day, Evacuation is the best choice because Restoration has no inbuilt way to break the cycle. Everyone's dead, and everyone's going to keep dying over and over again; might as well just mourn the dead and move on.
If there was any way going back would change things, then it'd be the moral choice, but the designer of the Bastion himself professes that it can't do that, and that the Calamity may very well happen again. Logic dictates that it is going to happen again.
What's more, by constantly reusing the Bastion, you lock the entire world into a temporal loop of endless death and destruction thanks to the actions of the Caeldonians. Is that really moral?
It's not clear that the Bastion sets everything back exactly though, right? Doesn't Ruck say some stuff like "I think this is a reset button but I'm not 100% sure what happens, I'm not sure if everything will just happen the same way or not?" I thought it was pretty clear that there was at least some chance that maybe, by resetting, you'd be able to avoid everything.
Yeah, he says that. These are the two possibilities I inferred could happen:
#1-Things go back to the way they were exactly, and nobody remembers the Calamity.
This means that the Calamity is indeed going to happen over again exactly, because in the absence of outside stimulus everybody's going to act exactly the same way; why wouldn't they?
#2-Things go back to the way they were exactly, and the survivors remember the Calamity.
This seems to be discredited by Rucks' assertion that they will no longer be together if the Bastion is fired, but even if it's true, the logical extension of this is that the Ura launch a full-scale assault on Caeldonia, which results in the firing of the doomsday device and the Calamity.
Either way you end up with the Calamity again, so why lock everyone into a horrific loop of death and destruction?
But there is no guarantee that the end result of the restoration will be another calamity. Even if there's still only the slimmest chance that something different will happen, what is there to be lost by trying again and again to restore both Caelondia and the Tazal Terminals?
The potential of losing everything. If you do go back, and the Calamity does reoccur and the Kid and Rucks don't remember then there is a chance that they die in the Calamity, if that happens there is no guarantee that the Bastion is ever restored.
If you do go back with your memories, you still can't stop the Calalmity, the Ura will still know the truth, will still pull the trigger. The Calalmity is inevitable.
No second chance, no anything. By creating the airship they know the outcome, and the price, but the known is worth more than the unknown to them.
Also the Calamity gave the kid purpose, gave him a chance at life. Before hand he was just waiting to die having lost everything.
i love that the ura bodies don't fade once they die. this game builds real respect for the mooks that you kill, even the squirts. but especially the ura.
I didn't want to make a metagaming decision so the symmetry of time travel leading into NG+ wasn't a factor.
I thought hard about it and decided Caelondia was doomed no matter what I did in the past. Even if we did retain some memories, even if we could convince others... I decided it would only delay the Calamity rather than stop it completely. To not only design such a weapon designed to cause complete genocide of a specific race... then use it unprovoked? Too much hatred, too much sickness, there to come back from. Eventually, the Calamity would happen - and maybe this time there are no survivors like The Kid to build the Bastion.
Better to gather up any remaining Ura and any one else who survived and try to start anew.
Saved Zulf, Evacuated. Zulf wasn't a bad guy, he was just PTSD. I mean, c'mon, apocalypse will do that to you, I'm not gonna hold a grudge. As for Restoration, well, Caeldonia and Ura both struck me as assholes, and they got what they deserved. They're not worthy of Restoration; we four shall carry on, and tell their story, so that others may learn from their folly.
I picked the other ending first, so that the New Game+ would make more sense.
I played through and picked the good ending. I always feel in any game that the first playthrough should always be the 'true' one and New Game+ is just clean-up.
I had to, the Kid had nothing before the Calamity, and why would you want to go back to that? He has the Stranger and Zia, and even Zulf (Yes I saved him, I couldn't leave him to die.)
Well...
The Kid had nothing, sure, but what about all the people who died?! Don't you care about them?
What about them? All the Bastion does is reset things exactly to the way they were before the Calamity happened. The exact same thing is going to happen over and over again; the cycle of hatred is going to continue, and the Calamity is going to keep happening. Even if the Kid and Rucks have their memories, who the hell is going to believe them?
No, at the end of the day, Evacuation is the best choice because Restoration has no inbuilt way to break the cycle. Everyone's dead, and everyone's going to keep dying over and over again; might as well just mourn the dead and move on.
If there was any way going back would change things, then it'd be the moral choice, but the designer of the Bastion himself professes that it can't do that, and that the Calamity may very well happen again. Logic dictates that it is going to happen again.
What's more, by constantly reusing the Bastion, you lock the entire world into a temporal loop of endless death and destruction thanks to the actions of the Caeldonians. Is that really moral?
It's not clear that the Bastion sets everything back exactly though, right? Doesn't Ruck say some stuff like "I think this is a reset button but I'm not 100% sure what happens, I'm not sure if everything will just happen the same way or not?" I thought it was pretty clear that there was at least some chance that maybe, by resetting, you'd be able to avoid everything.
Yeah, he says that. These are the two possibilities I inferred could happen:
#1-Things go back to the way they were exactly, and nobody remembers the Calamity.
This means that the Calamity is indeed going to happen over again exactly, because in the absence of outside stimulus everybody's going to act exactly the same way; why wouldn't they?
#2-Things go back to the way they were exactly, and the survivors remember the Calamity.
This seems to be discredited by Rucks' assertion that they will no longer be together if the Bastion is fired, but even if it's true, the logical extension of this is that the Ura launch a full-scale assault on Caeldonia, which results in the firing of the doomsday device and the Calamity.
Either way you end up with the Calamity again, so why lock everyone into a horrific loop of death and destruction?
But there is no guarantee that the end result of the restoration will be another calamity. Even if there's still only the slimmest chance that something different will happen, what is there to be lost by trying again and again to restore both Caelondia and the Tazal Terminals?
The potential of losing everything. If you do go back, and the Calamity does reoccur and the Kid and Rucks don't remember then there is a chance that they die in the Calamity, if that happens there is no guarantee that the Bastion is ever restored.
If you do go back with your memories, you still can't stop the Calalmity, the Ura will still know the truth, will still pull the trigger. The Calalmity is inevitable.
No second chance, no anything. By creating the airship they know the outcome, and the price, but the known is worth more than the unknown to them.
Also the Calamity gave the kid purpose, gave him a chance at life. Before hand he was just waiting to die having lost everything.
This.
If we accept that somehow, going back with the Bastion can change things, then we must also accept that going back may result in the death of Rucks and the Kid, and the Bastion won't be there to fire the next time.
There's also, again, the point that logic dictates that there is literally zero chance of preventing the Calamity. Going back without your memories means that it happens again, going back with your memories means war and that it happens again.
Given that the Calamity is, in my opinion, a certainty, there's no reason to go back in an attempt to prevent it, because that simply can't be done. Better to pick up the pieces and move on.
Just look at the Terminator series, for example. Judgement Day was inevitable; nothing they did could prevent it, and so the rebels in the future eventually stopped trying to prevent it and started sending back Terminators (and rebels, if you count TSCC) simply in order to be better prepared for surviving the apocalypse that would inevitably follow. Same principle applies here, as far as I'm concerned; some things just can't be stopped.
Do bear in mind that if you're repeatedly firing the Bastion to go back in time and restore things (at least, that's how I assumed it worked) that you're locking the entire world, including those who were otherwise unaffected by the Calamity, into a perpetual time loop from which they cannot escape. That's pretty horrific.
'Course, that interpretation may be misinformed or incorrect, but I can't imagine any other way the Bastion would work.
Saved Zulf, Evacuated. Zulf wasn't a bad guy, he was just PTSD. I mean, c'mon, apocalypse will do that to you, I'm not gonna hold a grudge. As for Restoration, well, Caeldonia and Ura both struck me as assholes, and they got what they deserved. They're not worthy of Restoration; we four shall carry on, and tell their story, so that others may learn from their folly.
I saved Zulf as well. Everyone should save Zulf at least once, if only in order to see that scene. The rescue of Zulf is beautifully moving; it's really quite incredible.
Yeah, at first I was mad with him, but he wasn't a bad guy, he just reacted strongly to the knowledge that my people built a doomsday device to wipe out his people. I was pissed off with the Caelondians for that, so I can forgive him being slightly madder.
Yeah, at first I was mad with him, but he wasn't a bad guy, he just reacted strongly to the knowledge that my people built a doomsday device to wipe out his people. I was pissed off with the Caelondians for that, so I can forgive him being slightly madder.
I didn't save him when I decided to reset everything, because he was coming back anyways. When I evacuated I had to save him, he made a mistake, we all do. He already paid for it and was betrayed by his people.
I always got goosebumps when you save Zulf. All those guys just stop firing and stare in awe.
Except that one guy...
That guy was a dick.
Regarding Zulf:
Zulf is not a bad guy; he never acts like one. Let's examine his actions again:
-He's a "perfect gentleman" when the survivors first encounter him.
-He flips out after he reads the journal, which tells him that the Caeldonians were building a device for the express purpose of committing completely unprovoked genocide against his people. Bear in mind that he'd dedicated his entire life to the idea that peace between Caeldonians and Ura was not only possible, but desirable. Such a revelation would have shattered his world to the core; every principle he built his life upon was revealed to be a lie.
-The Bastion is an extension of the Caeldonian science which destroyed the world in the first place. Whose word does he have that it's not another weapon designed to wipe the Ura out? Rucks'? Rucks is a high-ranking member of the Caeldonian establishment; Zulf has no reason to believe him. Attempting to destroy the Bastion is the only logical action the Ura can take, lest it be another weapon pointed at them. The Caeldonians broke faith first.
-Even though The Kid continues to do Rucks' bidding, Zulf still gives The Kid a chance to walk away from everything unscathed. He doesn't hold a grudge against The Kid, or even Rucks, I don't think; he just wants the last remnant of the government which tried to annihilate him, his family, and his entire race wiped away.
Every action Zulf takes is entirely understandable. That's why I saved him; he's not the villain. The Caeldonian government are the villains, and they've already paid for their crimes.
I always got goosebumps when you save Zulf. All those guys just stop firing and stare in awe.
Except that one guy...
That guy was a dick.
Regarding Zulf:
Zulf is not a bad guy; he never acts like one. Let's examine his actions again:
-He's a "perfect gentleman" when the survivors first encounter him.
-He flips out after he reads the journal, which tells him that the Caeldonians were building a device for the express purpose of committing completely unprovoked genocide against his people. Bear in mind that he'd dedicated his entire life to the idea that peace between Caeldonians and Ura was not only possible, but desirable. Such a revelation would have shattered his world to the core; every principle he built his life upon was revealed to be a lie.
-The Bastion is an extension of the Caeldonian science which destroyed the world in the first place. Whose word does he have that it's not another weapon designed to wipe the Ura out? Rucks'? Rucks is a high-ranking member of the Caeldonian establishment; Zulf has no reason to believe him. Attempting to destroy the Bastion is the only logical action the Ura can take, lest it be another weapon pointed at them. The Caeldonians broke faith first.
-Even though The Kid continues to do Rucks' bidding, Zulf still gives The Kid a chance to walk away from everything unscathed. He doesn't hold a grudge against The Kid, or even Rucks, I don't think; he just wants the last remnant of the government which tried to annihilate him, his family, and his entire race wiped away.
Every action Zulf takes is entirely understandable. That's why I saved him; he's not the villain. The Caeldonian government are the villains, and they've already paid for their crimes.
There was a playthrough were Zulf was responsible for the death of my lil squirt pet. He was not saved in that playthrough. That's instant super villain material right there.
Everyone has a price. Throw enough gold around and someone will risk disintegration.
There was a playthrough were Zulf was responsible for the death of my lil squirt pet. He was not saved in that playthrough. That's instant super villain material right there.
I was not expecting them to kill my pets and was honestly upset when they did. I almost reset just so I could save them all. Second playthrough I was ready for those bastards.
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ShimshaiFlush with Success!Isle of EmeraldRegistered Userregular
There was a playthrough were Zulf was responsible for the death of my lil squirt pet. He was not saved in that playthrough. That's instant super villain material right there.
I was not expecting them to kill my pets and was honestly upset when they did. I almost reset just so I could save them all. Second playthrough I was ready for those bastards.
Yeah, second playthrough I need to take a Secret Skill in that will enable me to save all of my pets. Or just show up rocking Mortar/Calamity Cannon, I guess.
First time they got the Pecker. Like you, I was genuinely upset. It's amazing how this game manages to get you attached to things simply through the narration.
"Our baby Pecker...he don't make it." I died a little.
I actually got to interview the composer. It was pretty awesome.
Nice interview!
!!!
Just remembered it was you that gifted me the Soundtrack! I can honestly say i've listened to the whole thing 25 times since that.
8->
Edit: Most of the links in your Music of Skyrim article are no longer available, sadly.
Yeah, it was a while ago and I think I drew attention to the links being up in the first place. Luckily all the songs are available for a listen on their website!
I'm glad you like the soundtrack! It is excellent driving music, if you haven't tried that.
Alright, using KBAM made getting third prize even possible on Mancer Observatory, or maybe it's just the placebo effect. Either way the challenge is still poorly designed; why is the restart button all the way over there??!?!?!?!?
Once I get back home with my 360 controller I'll be able to finally finish the game and hopefully open some of those spoilers y'all have been throwing out so casually.
I was actually able to beat Mancer Observatory pretty handily just by stacking the charge speed upgrades; once you have +50% charge speed you can fire quickly enough to pick the Gasfellas off with ease.
Posts
#1-Things go back to the way they were exactly, and nobody remembers the Calamity.
This means that the Calamity is indeed going to happen over again exactly, because in the absence of outside stimulus everybody's going to act exactly the same way; why wouldn't they?
#2-Things go back to the way they were exactly, and the survivors remember the Calamity.
This seems to be discredited by Rucks' assertion that they will no longer be together if the Bastion is fired, but even if it's true, the logical extension of this is that the Ura launch a full-scale assault on Caeldonia, which results in the firing of the doomsday device and the Calamity.
Either way you end up with the Calamity again, so why lock everyone into a horrific loop of death and destruction? Mourn the dead, for they cannot be saved, and rebuild the world so that such hatred never happens again.
If you do go back with your memories, you still can't stop the Calalmity, the Ura will still know the truth, will still pull the trigger. The Calalmity is inevitable.
No second chance, no anything. By creating the airship they know the outcome, and the price, but the known is worth more than the unknown to them.
Also the Calamity gave the kid purpose, gave him a chance at life. Before hand he was just waiting to die having lost everything.
Very close.
I didn't want to make a metagaming decision so the symmetry of time travel leading into NG+ wasn't a factor.
I thought hard about it and decided Caelondia was doomed no matter what I did in the past. Even if we did retain some memories, even if we could convince others... I decided it would only delay the Calamity rather than stop it completely. To not only design such a weapon designed to cause complete genocide of a specific race... then use it unprovoked? Too much hatred, too much sickness, there to come back from. Eventually, the Calamity would happen - and maybe this time there are no survivors like The Kid to build the Bastion.
Better to gather up any remaining Ura and any one else who survived and try to start anew.
This.
There's also, again, the point that logic dictates that there is literally zero chance of preventing the Calamity. Going back without your memories means that it happens again, going back with your memories means war and that it happens again.
Given that the Calamity is, in my opinion, a certainty, there's no reason to go back in an attempt to prevent it, because that simply can't be done. Better to pick up the pieces and move on.
Just look at the Terminator series, for example. Judgement Day was inevitable; nothing they did could prevent it, and so the rebels in the future eventually stopped trying to prevent it and started sending back Terminators (and rebels, if you count TSCC) simply in order to be better prepared for surviving the apocalypse that would inevitably follow. Same principle applies here, as far as I'm concerned; some things just can't be stopped.
Do bear in mind that if you're repeatedly firing the Bastion to go back in time and restore things (at least, that's how I assumed it worked) that you're locking the entire world, including those who were otherwise unaffected by the Calamity, into a perpetual time loop from which they cannot escape. That's pretty horrific.
'Course, that interpretation may be misinformed or incorrect, but I can't imagine any other way the Bastion would work.
I played it a couple times, choosing different endings each time, and each ending had good things about them.
It was a great game.
Except that one guy...
That guy was a dick.
Regarding Zulf:
-He's a "perfect gentleman" when the survivors first encounter him.
-He flips out after he reads the journal, which tells him that the Caeldonians were building a device for the express purpose of committing completely unprovoked genocide against his people. Bear in mind that he'd dedicated his entire life to the idea that peace between Caeldonians and Ura was not only possible, but desirable. Such a revelation would have shattered his world to the core; every principle he built his life upon was revealed to be a lie.
-The Bastion is an extension of the Caeldonian science which destroyed the world in the first place. Whose word does he have that it's not another weapon designed to wipe the Ura out? Rucks'? Rucks is a high-ranking member of the Caeldonian establishment; Zulf has no reason to believe him. Attempting to destroy the Bastion is the only logical action the Ura can take, lest it be another weapon pointed at them. The Caeldonians broke faith first.
-Even though The Kid continues to do Rucks' bidding, Zulf still gives The Kid a chance to walk away from everything unscathed. He doesn't hold a grudge against The Kid, or even Rucks, I don't think; he just wants the last remnant of the government which tried to annihilate him, his family, and his entire race wiped away.
Every action Zulf takes is entirely understandable. That's why I saved him; he's not the villain. The Caeldonian government are the villains, and they've already paid for their crimes.
Please get out of my head.
I have too much other stuff to do, stop it!
First time they got the Pecker. Like you, I was genuinely upset. It's amazing how this game manages to get you attached to things simply through the narration.
"Our baby Pecker...he don't make it." I died a little.
Love it.
I actually got to interview the composer. It was pretty awesome.
Nice interview!
!!!
Just remembered it was you that gifted me the Soundtrack! I can honestly say i've listened to the whole thing 25 times since that.
8->
Edit: Most of the links in your Music of Skyrim article are no longer available, sadly.
In fact, I'm going to listen to it right now. Note my signature!
Yeah, it was a while ago and I think I drew attention to the links being up in the first place. Luckily all the songs are available for a listen on their website!
I'm glad you like the soundtrack! It is excellent driving music, if you haven't tried that.
I have listened to it while out cycling though, it's very nice. Relaxing and energizing at the same time.
Once I get back home with my 360 controller I'll be able to finally finish the game and hopefully open some of those spoilers y'all have been throwing out so casually.